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Tar om	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:29:00 - [1] Since all macro miners are in NPC corps to prevent war declarations... How about making it impossible for NPC corpmembers to scoop ore in belts? This would prevent (or at least vastly reduce the efficiency of) macro mining ops from working because players would be able to wardec their haulers without preventing true noobs from mining in their probes at the start of the game. If the macro miners start just warping to and from station, it should make them far more obvious to GMs. Afterall - who warps a fleet back and forward instead of using a hauler? Even if macro miners split up their operations to one per system it will be pretty obvious if cruisers keep warping back and foward instead of using secure cans and a hauler. Oh, and it would also apply to ore thieves :) They'd be able to steal but they'd no longer be able to hide in NPC corps. There must be some holes in this plan.... gwan, I can take it. Tar om -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:38:00 - [2] While I personally like the idea, ther are two things that make it hard to accept. First, there's the fact that lots of players choose to sit in NPC corps and operate from them. Making it impossible for them to operate as haulers in belts is kind of weird. One would say you either change npc corps as a whole to fit a wholly different role (which no longer allows players to use them as hiding places or player corp substitutes), or you do nothing at all. Personally, I don't like how npc corps offer the ability to operate outside of the eve world where actions have consequences. However, that world is not perfect, and to at this time remove the ability to hide at expense of the ability to play a serious role in the greater universe is a difficult point. Secondly, there is the fact that alot of macrominers already resort to having their ship move back and forth from stations. they typically do this once their op has been found by ore thieves and is regularly plundered. Sure, ti reduces their effectiveness and increases the visibility, but all it takes to get away with farming for reselling is one person to watch the accounts. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Skogen Gump	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:50:00 - [3] Gee, if you put it like that: Since all crimes are commited by Players, why not simply ban players from playing ? Firstly, it's not fair to tarnish all npc corp players because of the actions of a few, and secondly the coding and testing required to implement this crazy idea would be beyond the benefit it would actually give the game! EVE is like a box of chocolates
Vitai	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:56:00 - [4] There is no need to think about more restrictions in the game when it is a rather simple task to spot macro miners on the client side with a little bit of programming. No human player is as repetitive down to a millisecond as a script.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Vitai There is no need to think about more restrictions in the game when it is a rather simple task to spot macro miners on the client side with a little bit of programming. No human player is as repetitive down to a millisecond as a script. Scripts need not be repetitive. It all a matter of how detailed your coding is. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:18:00 - [6] Incredibly dumb idea, the noob corp is there for a reason - new players and people who don't want to be part of a team at the moment. Being in one should not cripple you in any way, shape, or form. If someone is macro mining, haul their ore and pop their cans, after you report them to a GM.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:29:00 - [7] Personally, I thought the bumpageddon idea was a riot. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:51:00 - [8] I think after about 1-2 months all people should be kicked out of noob corps. It would solve so many problems. For ease of administration they could go to a corp called "Caldari / Gallente etc misfits club". This would be a kind of overflow corp where the players could be wardec'd. I think to ensure balance a wardec on this corp should cost more. Perhaps 2.1 mill ISK instead of the normal 2 mill?
Sumica	Posted - 2005.08.25 18:12:00 - [9] like adding 100k to the cost of a war is realy going to make any one think twice abought declearing a war what is that like 1 or 2 min of work for most players. As it stands there are plenty of ways to deal with macro miners. Just pick one and work with it. Your not stupid just misinformed Ö
John Smallberries	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:12:00 - [10] Hiding in n00b corps to escape game mechanics is lame. Minimizine time spent in NPC corps would be a good thing. Let us war dec teh NPC corps! Death the Macro Miners! Mob Justice 4tw!!!
SengH	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:15:00 - [11] if players are older than 1-2 months and in the noob corp. Allow individual person wardecs on these characters. Problem solved.
John Smallberries	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:20:00 - [12] Quote: if players are older than 1-2 months and in the noob corp. Allow individual person wardecs on these characters. Problem solved. \o/ me does the happy dance \o/
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Chief Wompum on 25/08/2005 21:18:48 null Originally by: Vishnej Incredibly dumb idea, the noob corp is there for a reason - new players and people who don't want to be part of a team at the moment. Being in one should not cripple you in any way, shape, or form. This is EVE. It IS a MMORPG. If you want to play alone, go play something else, OR you can make YOUR very own single person corp. The only way i can see to have macros minimized is real simple and said before. Everyone after 2 months should NOT be in a n00b corp. There just isnt any good reason to be in one forever. Need advice? go to help channel. Afraid of a War dec in empire? Then dont pss anyone off. The diehard EVE players REALLY need a way to teach the marco mine farms what EVE is all about. Players that dont want our game ruined by ebaying fectards. CCP give the players the tools, and we will take care of it! Yall can stay at the bar longer then... "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:21:00 - [14] 1 player corps are open to wardecs, some people simply dont that. Plus people who think theres no teamwork in n00b corps are idiots ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Luigi Thirty	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:21:00 - [15] So then everyone in the noob corp would be a noob with nobody to help them?
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Luigi Thirty So then everyone in the noob corp would be a noob with nobody to help them? Try reading it again. We have a help channel and rookie channels for a reason. We also have forums here too n00bs can find help at. DOH If someone wants to solo, more power to them. But they can easily solo in thier own corp. Solo wont get you far in EVE. You need Teamwork comrade.... "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
Talthrus	Posted - 2005.08.25 22:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Vitai There is no need to think about more restrictions in the game when it is a rather simple task to spot macro miners on the client side with a little bit of programming. No human player is as repetitive down to a millisecond as a script. Unfortunately, the hours of coding CCP would be required to do in order to catch a very small percentage of the macroing would be countered in minutes by a few changes in the macro coding. Additionally, most marcos today aren't as repetitive as you may think. I think a large majority of the macro miners are being caught in EVE, which is definitely a good thing. Drastic systems are only needed if the problem gets way out of hand. ----------------------
Galk	Posted - 2005.08.25 22:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Rod Blaine One would say you either change npc corps as a whole to fit a wholly different role (which no longer allows players to use them as hiding places or player corp substitutes), or you do nothing at all. Personally, I don't like how npc corps offer the ability to operate outside of the eve world where actions have consequences. That option is there for a reason. Sadly there are many that just chose to random war dec people... naff all to do with reason or consequence.. or roleplay. The npc corps are a safety net... and i know i did and many others.. i enjoyed my time in the starter corp learning the game at my own leisure, and those that wish to play no part of player politics ever.... End of the day, they like to play a game, im sure there's plenty more out there that play the player v's game.. without the need to call for abolition of npc corps thus forcing everybody not willing to join into the game you belive they should be playing. Stupid idea with the haulers and non cans realy.... i made many friends from multiplayer mining ops during my first months in the game. Do away with that also, even less of a multiplayer experience looms:/ -------- 23 Arguing that namechanging would promote griefing is somewhat moot given the current FFA on that front. 'Danton Marcellus'
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Sumica like adding 100k to the cost of a war is realy going to make any one think twice abought declearing a war what is that like 1 or 2 min of work for most players. As it stands there are plenty of ways to deal with macro miners. Just pick one and work with it. No **** sherlock, it was tongue in cheek - next time I'll post a disclaimer in case you miss it.
without	Posted - 2005.08.26 01:00:00 - [20] why do u want to stop the macro miners? how do they hurt you dont give me that **** about mineral prices. they just bring in more minerals to the game = more ships = good BTW i dont mine at all so im not defending myself. but i say that eve should have a built in macro from ship cargo to jet can the argument is that macro is an unfair advantage. well let everyone have it inbuilt then its not a advantage
Hzar Grako	Posted - 2005.08.26 01:14:00 - [21] I've played this game for over two years. I have never belong to another players corporation. I play solo most of the time. I do gang upon occation. I am not hiding in an NPC corp. I have RL commitments, a 1 and 2 year old, that make it very difficult to commit to game play at any certain time. I can see it now, middle of a fleet battle: "I've got to go one of the boys is crying". About the third or fourth time, I think my corp mates might get a bit upset.
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.26 02:00:00 - [22] Originally by: without why do u want to stop the macro miners? how do they hurt you dont give me that **** about mineral prices. they just bring in more minerals to the game = more ships = good BTW i dont mine at all so im not defending myself. but i say that eve should have a built in macro from ship cargo to jet can the argument is that macro is an unfair advantage. well let everyone have it inbuilt then its not a advantage You Sir, are a moron. Macro miners do affect prices. They are not just being used to move ore to a can. They Strip mine entire systems with NO effort. They also have this little nasty thing of EBAYING thier ingame cash for RL money. WOOT now we have a one day old spoiled rich kid with 2 billion! WTF is that? Is this how you play games? Cheating? And so since im not rich in RL, I cant be rich in a game? Personally, I cant see how anyone could be a big enough idiot to buy ANY game items for RL cash. Big F&*(@#$ Losers. The ONLY people to make RL cash from a game is the game company that made it. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. This is a GAME. Its meant to played for FUN not rl profit. "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.08.26 02:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Chief Wompum Originally by: without why do u want to stop the macro miners? how do they hurt you dont give me that **** about mineral prices. they just bring in more minerals to the game = more ships = good BTW i dont mine at all so im not defending myself. but i say that eve should have a built in macro from ship cargo to jet can the argument is that macro is an unfair advantage. well let everyone have it inbuilt then its not a advantage You Sir, are a moron. Macro miners do affect prices. They are not just being used to move ore to a can. They Strip mine entire systems with NO effort. They also have this little nasty thing of EBAYING thier ingame cash for RL money. WOOT now we have a one day old spoiled rich kid with 2 billion! WTF is that? Is this how you play games? Cheating? And so since im not rich in RL, I cant be rich in a game? Personally, I cant see how anyone could be a big enough idiot to buy ANY game items for RL cash. Big F&*(@#$ Losers. The ONLY people to make RL cash from a game is the game company that made it. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. This is a GAME. Its meant to played for FUN not rl profit. Quoted for Truth, except for the fact that you said "You Sir are a Moron". I've said that before, and it got me a forum ban . Suggest you edit it. -- Proud member of the [23]. Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else.
Driven	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Rod Blaine Personally, I don't like how npc corps offer the ability to operate outside of the eve world where actions have consequences. This is the crux of the matter at hand. It is well stated. It isn't only this issue either, but others in the game that, if addressed, would go a long ways towards creatiing huge barriers to the cheaters of the world who would love to exploit EVE, the way other online games have and are being exploited now. NPC corps allow a player to engage in low-risk, high-reward activities. If CCP eliminates the no-cost risk abatement, that is the NPC corp, for any player older than 60 days, presto - now players themselves can address the issue through war decs. After all, who hates macro-miners more than honest players? Further, put rats in all high-sec belts - and if you aren't around to actually play the game, your ship/drones/equipment is at risk - the way it ought to be. This situation is exactly like professional athletes using steroids - if you know the player next to you is using, and you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Either make macros legal and we can all go on vacation while our barges macro-mine, or put in some real counter-measures. This kind of thing needs to be stamped out - harshly.
Ryy Kishin	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Winterblink Personally, I thought the bumpageddon idea was a riot. It actually works very well in a Tempy too Live Hard Die Young Leave A Good Looking Corpse There are no bugs in Eve only features.
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Ryy Kishin Originally by: Winterblink Personally, I thought the bumpageddon idea was a riot. It actually works very well in a Tempy too Surely a BumpaFoon would be the obvious choice! ------------------ Remember that your Unique, like everyone else.
without	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Chief Wompum Edited by: Chief Wompum on 26/08/2005 02:22:21 You Sir, are a <edit> heh . Macro miners do affect prices. They are not just being used to move ore to a can. They Strip mine entire systems with NO effort. They also have this little nasty thing of EBAYING thier ingame cash for RL money. WOOT now we have a one day old spoiled rich kid with 2 billion! WTF is that? Is this how you play games? Cheating? And so since im not rich in RL, I cant be rich in a game? Personally, I cant see how anyone could be a big enough idiot to buy ANY game items for RL cash. Big F&(@#$ Losers. The ONLY people to make RL cash from a game is the game company that made it. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. This is a GAME. Its meant to played for FUN not rl profit. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. man that is so stupid. i dont know what cvountry ur in but it happens all the time and its called development. old days ppl **ed when the coal miners lost their jobs becuase machines where made to take their jobs. the miners adapted and found new jobs and now electricity and coal is cheaper = the whole economy is better lots of examples like that. say the industrial revolution. ppl lost millions of jobs to the machines. but we adapt and move on and progress as a race everything that can be automated should be. y wast human life and time on ** that can be done by machines. i agree isk selling = cheating but i dont see why macro mining should be a prob. it brings minerals into the game which is good. means isk is worth more if they macro miners keep trit at 2isk that means everything in game gets cheaper. and there is a limited amount of ISK in game so the isk is worth more. thus we all benifit you should all think before u cry these ppl are doing you a service
Matthew	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Chief Wompum There just isnt any good reason to be in one forever. How about because they want to? Because they like not being tied down and the ever-changing group of friends? Originally by: Chief Wompum Afraid of a War dec in empire? Then dont pss anyone off. Not annoying anyone is no guarantee that you won't be wardec'ed. There are those that will wardec you simply for being the first player with a ship worth shooting that they meet after their last war expires. While people are able to declare empire wars for no better reason that they want something to shoot and you were the first ones they spotted, there needs to be a way to avoid such people. Originally by: Chief Wompum The diehard EVE players REALLY need a way to teach the marco mine farms what EVE is all about. This sort of player vigilante "justice" is a very dangerous road to go down. Sure, if it's within the game mechanics, then go for it. But deliberately changing the game mechanics for the sole reason of facilitating it is a dangerous precedent to set. Especially considering that players do not have the tools to 100% identify a macro-miner. The resulting witch-hunt could easily hit dedicated player miners, who are assumed to be macroers just because "I only ever see them in a belt mining for hours on end". The GMs are the ones with the tools to truly judge each case, and they are the ones with the tools to implement the ultimate remedy. One that is far more effective than petty player attacks. Originally by: Chief Wompum Players that dont want our game ruined by ebaying fectards. There are also a lot of players who don't want to see the game ruined by ill-thought-out responses to the macroers. Beware those beyond here, for they cannot see evil.
Sharaka	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:31:00 - [29] I'm a new player in an NPC corps but I'm an MMORPG player of several years. I do hate macroers and currency farmers with a vengeance but I don't think that changing the NPC corps in the way suggested is a valid solution. Time is not a proper measure of whether someone should stop "hiding" (if that is what it is considered) in an NPC corps. Some people play more than others. One person may have learned much from playing 5 hours a day 7 days a week in 2 months while another only gets to play a few hours at weekends and is still a relative newbie in the same timespan. Perhaps SP could be a better measure to separate the skilled from the casual so you have to leave after a certain number. Or maybe not even "have to", just make clones over a certain SP number unavailable to people in newbie corps. That way you save creating new NPC corps for the throw-outs and just make it more and more adviseable to move on as you skill up. The wisdom of it does worry me however. I'm a PvE player and always have been. This probably puts me at odds with most of EVE. But being put into a situation where I was forced to PvP would probably make me wonder about staying. And from the attitudes I hear those who made 1 person corps would get hammered by the people for whom their own excitement is the only consideration. If anyone wonders why I'm not just rushing to join a corps, I've been through too many guild dramas in other games to be particularly keen on joining up for another one. If the limit to NPC corps numbers were ever adopted then there would be no worries about there "only being newbs in them", as someone said, because they are full of alts. I'm quite happy (most of the time) taking advice from a "less than a day" player when they obviously know what they are on about. Although sometimes the difference between BS and BS can be minimal.
Galk	Posted - 2005.08.26 16:06:00 - [30] Many people drop from corps when they get a war dec. Those people continue to play eve. Without the npc corp backup, those people will simpley stop playing eve. Is that what you realy want.. people leaving the game. -------- 23 Arguing that namechanging would promote griefing is somewhat moot given the current FFA on that front. 'Danton Marcellus'
Andicuri Vas	Posted - 2005.08.26 16:25:00 - [31] Edited by: Andicuri Vas on 26/08/2005 16:31:54 Edited by: Andicuri Vas on 26/08/2005 16:31:00 This is probably why CCP hasn't moved on ore thieving or Kessie Suicide Squads in high sec. Maybe the player driven solutions that EVE is built on, are ultimately better than nerfing the hell out of everything in order to snatch a few turds. Ore thieves 4tw! A V edit: Doh! Nice discussion on this here: Linkage
Basileus	Posted - 2005.08.26 16:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Chief Wompum This is EVE. It IS a MMORPG. If you want to play alone, go play something else, OR you can make YOUR very own single person corp. This is an excellent example of ignorent people who reckon they should decide how others play the game. There is a way to play Eve, without PvP. Trade, mining, manufacturing are all possible in empire; no need for PvP, and interaction with other players is still possible. If players want to play Eve that way, LET THEM. It is not for you to decide how others should play the game. MMORPG is not the same as PvP. Get it? Macro mining is ebil, and it should be rooted out. But to change the NPC-corp structure is *******s. Bad idea.
Hal2	Posted - 2005.08.26 17:23:00 - [33] Originally by: without Originally by: Chief Wompum Edited by: Chief Wompum on 26/08/2005 02:22:21 You Sir, are a <edit> heh . Macro miners do affect prices. They are not just being used to move ore to a can. They Strip mine entire systems with NO effort. They also have this little nasty thing of EBAYING thier ingame cash for RL money. WOOT now we have a one day old spoiled rich kid with 2 billion! WTF is that? Is this how you play games? Cheating? And so since im not rich in RL, I cant be rich in a game? Personally, I cant see how anyone could be a big enough idiot to buy ANY game items for RL cash. Big F&(@#$ Losers. The ONLY people to make RL cash from a game is the game company that made it. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. This is a GAME. Its meant to played for FUN not rl profit. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. man that is so stupid. i dont know what cvountry ur in but it happens all the time and its called development. old days ppl **ed when the coal miners lost their jobs becuase machines where made to take their jobs. the miners adapted and found new jobs and now electricity and coal is cheaper = the whole economy is better lots of examples like that. say the industrial revolution. ppl lost millions of jobs to the machines. but we adapt and move on and progress as a race everything that can be automated should be. y wast human life and time on ** that can be done by machines. i agree isk selling = cheating but i dont see why macro mining should be a prob. it brings minerals into the game which is good. means isk is worth more if they macro miners keep trit at 2isk that means everything in game gets cheaper. and there is a limited amount of ISK in game so the isk is worth more. thus we all benifit you should all think before u cry these ppl are doing you a service Have you ever tried to build for profit? If not then you will never understand. If you have then imagine going out to mine some low ends - so that you can make a decent profit - and all the belts are stripped bare. Well yes I can go buy the mins that the macroer will also sell too me if I put up a buy order but then my profit margin goes through the window and it's no longer viable to build for profit. So I go and do missions instead as I can make more for less effort/time. I know this is true because I've found myself doing this at different times. What does this mean? Well the people that truly refuse to mine or build for themselves suddenly notice a lot less stuff to buy beacause the people who do enjoy building but want to make a profit no longer build. That and selling for RL money is evil.
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.26 22:34:00 - [34] Originally by: Basileus Originally by: Chief Wompum This is EVE. It IS a MMORPG. If you want to play alone, go play something else, OR you can make YOUR very own single person corp. This is an excellent example of ignorent people who reckon they should decide how others play the game. There is a way to play Eve, without PvP. Trade, mining, manufacturing are all possible in empire; no need for PvP, and interaction with other players is still possible. If players want to play Eve that way, LET THEM. It is not for you to decide how others should play the game. MMORPG is not the same as PvP. Get it? Macro mining is ebil, and it should be rooted out. But to change the NPC-corp structure is *****s. Bad idea. LOL im ignorant? Ahh you do realize that playing the market, whether it be trade routes or selling is still pvp? What i see in that is you want free and easy cash with no risk at all. For intance, I run a trade route say 4 times a week, i make real good isk, along comes you and takes my super secret route away. You hiding in a n00b corp cant be war dec'd. Feel proud? no risk isk. same thing with builders. Why should they be all safe? Afraid of competition? Sorry man, your the one that aparently didnt read what EVE is about. EVE is a PVP game get used to it or go play homeworld or something alone. Quote:** i agree isk selling = cheating but i dont see why macro mining should be a prob. it brings minerals into the game which is good. means isk is worth more if they macro miners keep trit at 2isk that means everything in game gets cheaper. and there is a limited amount of ISK in game so the isk is worth more. thus we all benifit you should all think before u cry these ppl are doing you a service Ok Lets try this again 1 more time, They macro mine to make isk to sell for real life cash. Plz re read it a few times. The effect of this can been seen in other MMO's like EQ, EQ2, WoW, Old E&B, SWG. Would you like to pay 500mil for a bs? Isk would be worthless if this sort of thing goes unchecked. Anyone could be a multi billionare, just need your mom to buy you isk on ebay. And alot of people actually do this. Fair? No Whats the price to stop it? It already has been stated. My corp Builds AND mines. So what happens when trit falls that it isnt worth selling? We dont mine for it to sell to others. Does it affect our profits? Nope Does just our actions of not mining it hurt the Economy, nope. Most of the trit orders are still near n00b zones. they mine like freaks to make isk. Jita anyone? What i think your actually peeved about is the fact that you cant make profit from T1 items. This i would agree too, but it isnt the min prices holding you back. And isnt part of this thread. "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
true sight	Posted - 2005.08.26 23:18:00 - [35] Much Better way to stop Macromining (Or slow it down, make it harder whatever) Change how mining works, remove it from a simple boring task people to do make money, and make it to an interesting profession that takes time effort (and hopefully lots of clicking in random places) -------------------------------------- True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.26 23:20:00 - [36] Hmm /emote ***s knuckles Originally by:** Matthew Originally by: Chief Wompum There just isnt any good reason to be in one forever. How about because they want to? Because they like not being tied down and the ever-changing group of friends? So what your really saying is, you dont want to be a team player in any corp? There are alot of different types of corps. Mine does a bit-O-everything. Its also only close friends in rl. There are corps you can go do your thing without being a mine slave. Eve also has alot of different channels. Check a few out and make friends there. Go to help channel and help the n00bs. Dont need to be stuck in a npc corp to make friends. Very weak argument m8t Originally by: Chief Wompum Afraid of a War dec in empire? Then dont pss anyone off. Not annoying anyone is no guarantee that you won't be wardec'ed. There are those that will wardec you simply for being the first player with a ship worth shooting that they meet after their last war expires. While people are able to declare empire wars for no better reason that they want something to shoot and you were the first ones they spotted, there needs to be a way to avoid such people. Welcome to EVE! There are no guarentee's. If you need one, this game isnt for you imo. If you fear losing a ship, dont fly what you cant afford. ( my poor HAC ) But my corp got me a new one. WIll not say if i still have it though ... If such a thing happened to you, and you feel you were griefed, petition. You have to face it, there are people that would kill you just for the KM. Originally by: Chief Wompum The diehard EVE players REALLY need a way to teach the marco mine farms what EVE is all about. This sort of player vigilante "justice" is a very dangerous road to go down. Sure, if it's within the game mechanics, then go for it. But deliberately changing the game mechanics for the sole reason of facilitating it is a dangerous precedent to set. Especially considering that players do not have the tools to 100% identify a macro-miner. The resulting witch-hunt could easily hit dedicated player miners, who are assumed to be macroers just because "I only ever see them in a belt mining for hours on end". The GMs are the ones with the tools to truly judge each case, and they are the ones with the tools to implement the ultimate remedy. One that is far more effective than petty player attacks. Petty isnt a word used to describe the dmg macro users do. They DO affect how new players see the game from the start. When a defenceless noob has to trek in his n00b ship to a .7 - .5 system just to mine veld and get blown away in 2 seconds isnt fun. Plus to haul that ore a few jumps to sell it, not fun for n00bs. They wont continue to play, CCP loses customers, game dies. Dedicated player miners are usually either solo, with a hauling account and thier miner, or in a corp mining op. Now what do you think when you see 20 apocs with 4 haulers all made the same day stipping 1.0 - .9 systems with cool names like Uberminer01 - 20 and Uberhauler 01 - 04? They just friends that like to mine? Like really? Use the greymatter a bit. If you dont know how macros work, then dont engage them. I happen to know how they work like alot of others here do (not including the users heh). (will post resume to ccp for new job heh ) Originally by: Chief Wompum Players that dont want our game ruined by ebaying fectards. There are also a lot of players who don't want to see the game ruined by ill-thought-out responses to the macroers. After watching alot of games killed by this type of macro / ebay abuse, I wish to see EVE set yet another first and totally ruin thier ebil ebay easy cash scams. Ill thought out? I dont think so. Exploitable? Thats why we have a Test server. Go help find them before the would be changes go live. "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
GrandAdmiral Alt	Posted - 2005.08.27 00:10:00 - [37] Quote: This sort of player vigilante "justice" is a very dangerous road to go down. Hey a little inocent blood is spilled from time to time. No big thing. We have the power to solve this in a fun and entertaining way. Thousands of pilots with guns. Give us the tools to kill macro miners in high sec systems and we will police our own game. All of Eve needs to rise up and take responsibility for their actions and their game. Don't ask someone else to do it for you. Get off your lazy butts and go out and kill a macro mining op tonight!!!
Magnum VII	Posted - 2005.08.27 01:52:00 - [38] How about Player to Player Wars called "Personal Rivalry" And they cost the same. But you need so many votes from trusted players on some kind of council that players can campaign for to get voted into. Then when someone asks to become a personal rivalry with a known macro miner, it can be taken care of. And it wonÆt be done to people who donÆt deserve it.
Basileus	Posted - 2005.08.27 05:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Chief Wompum Why should they be all safe? Afraid of competition? This i personally have yet to see myself.... They made the game pvp fopr a reason....EVE is a PVP game get used to it or go play homeworld or something alone. Apparantly the only thing that comes to your mind when you read 'competition' is hack and slash. Quite a limited perspective, don't you agree?
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.08.27 10:07:00 - [40] everyne take trip to kisogo and ansen jump on MM Killers channel and grab a gang of strip miners
Tulia	Posted - 2005.08.27 14:13:00 - [41] Originally by: true sight Much Better way to stop Macromining (Or slow it down, make it harder whatever) Change how mining works, remove it from a simple boring task people to do make money, and make it to an interesting profession that takes time effort (and hopefully lots of clicking in random places) They did a similar thing in Final Fantasy XI. Fishing was basically macroed to hell and back, because all you needed to do was press a button, wait 10 seconds, and then press another button when it reported back on your "results". The entire fishing system was overhauled into a whole new mini game based on timed clicking and observing. It would be nice if mining had the same thing, not sure how they would do it though.
Smelly Muff	Posted - 2005.08.27 16:45:00 - [42] Edited by: Smelly Muff on 27/08/2005 16:46:14 Easy to spot: 1: Allways in Nooby corps. 2. Never respond to ore being stolen. 3. Take all ore from can and hauler will still come to haul. 4. Usually 2 ore more Ice miners near a can and a Hauler. 5. On for like 23hrs a day. 6. Very rarely watch local, or respond to convo's. 7. Sometimes have names like miner1 miner2 miner3 etc 8. Usually stupid amounts of mins/ice for sale very cheap in that sys 9. There is allwas a bookmark in can so macro doesn't pop can.
Leilani Solaris	Posted - 2005.08.27 17:04:00 - [43] bad idea. simply because, what the hell are new players supposed to do to make money?! a new player wont have the skills to be able to npc hunt effectively to make enough money and some people actually find mining enjoyable(?!?!). so this solution would not be viable. -----------------------------------------------
Tar om	Posted - 2005.08.27 18:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Leilani Solaris bad idea. simply because, what the hell are new players supposed to do to make money?! a new player wont have the skills to be able to npc hunt effectively to make enough money and some people actually find mining enjoyable(?!?!). so this solution would not be viable. errr This wouldn't stop new players making money from mining. They'd just have to leave the NPC corps to use an indy in the belts. Anyway, CCP have a more radical solution on test - the ability to shoot people who steal from your can. This should work against macro miners if you let them steal ore from your can. Of course, the macro miners will probably refine their macros to name cans and work off that, but hey - its a start. Tar om -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
true sight	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:47:00 - [45] Edited by: true sight on 17/09/2005 18:48:19 Originally by: Tulia Originally by: true sight Much Better way to stop Macromining (Or slow it down, make it harder whatever) Change how mining works, remove it from a simple boring task people to do make money, and make it to an interesting profession that takes time effort (and hopefully lots of clicking in random places) They did a similar thing in Final Fantasy XI. Fishing was basically macroed to hell and back, because all you needed to do was press a button, wait 10 seconds, and then press another button when it reported back on your "results". The entire fishing system was overhauled into a whole new mini game based on timed clicking and observing. It would be nice if mining had the same thing, not sure how they would do it though. Heres a way: 1) Remove naming from all asteroids, make their contents mixed. 2) Improve Asteroid Scanners and scanning skills, Higher skills increase scanner accuracy at detecting asteroid contents and volume 3) To mine an asteroid, you first have to Blast it (Using a Civ blaster that uses no ammo, upto a Tech2 version that has [money sink/cost factor] provides good blasts) 4) You then have to lock onto the dust-field created by blasting, and use a mining laser to "vacume" up the dust, this would then collect in your cargo into piles of the ores that asteroid containered. 5) You can then refine those as normal into minerals. What this does: a) Increases clicking required b) for any real money making requires a ammo, which must be purchased. c) Having to scan asteroids to find one with the contents your looking for requires Manual work *as a side note, by making mining more complicated, take more skill, effort and time, the mineral output of the refined ores would also need increasing to make up for this, and stop the influx of ore dropping rapidly* -------------------------------------- True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:53:00 - [46] Please continue the discussions here Thank you I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage You spin me right round, baby.


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