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Algogille 2.0: The Luminere Titan is Down

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Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 93	Posted - 2013.03.22 18:29:00 - [1] - Quote I understand you guys can't execute massively complex capital tactics, but allow me to remember something here. 10 Navy Raven's sit point blank on 10 blaster Navy Mega's. It resolved how everyone assumed it would. Now 5 Phoenix's sit point blank on 25 Moro's. Is there really any doubt the way it was going to end once both fleets were on field? I love CCP. I love the Live Events team and the effort that goes into these. I really do feel like I am watching and sometimes participating in the shaping of EVE Online. Frankly for a roleplayer it's orgasmic. And I was forefront in defending CCP when people said the Battle for Caldari Prime was going to be a onesided railroaded set event. So I showed up, and got to watch a onesided railroaded set event. Now I would just like to say I am actually fine with setting up big events where one side is absolutely screwed and going to lose. I have nothing against the Caldari losing their grip on Caldari Prime(OOC anyways, IC it pisses me off. XD ). It's not my story to write, it's a world I have a character in and get to play in. I can write my story, but I cannot write the story of Caldari Prime. Also I think loss and hardship can make for interesting Role Play, and there is certainly buckets of loss and hardship being dished out today. BUT. CCP Falcon wrote: A storm is coming, and when it arrives your actions could either assist in maintaining a fragile stability, or usher in a new era in politics that will resonate across every world in New Eden. CCP Zulu wrote: The battleground is set, the fight belongs to you. Bullskittles. This fight did not belong to us. We could watch. But with it being in high sec, and there beign about 40-50 Caps on grid, half of them sieged Moros's blasting away and focusing firing, there is zero way players could've had any affect on that. I have no problem watching events. I love watching large scale things. But please do not sell events as "your actions" can make a difference and that the fight "belongs to you" when it doesn't.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 1939	Posted - 2013.03.22 18:34:00 - [2] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: I understand you guys can't execute massively complex capital tactics, but allow me to remember something here. 10 Navy Raven's sit point blank on 10 blaster Navy Mega's. It resolved how everyone assumed it would. Now 5 Phoenix's sit point blank on 25 Moro's. Is there really any doubt the way it was going to end once both fleets were on field? I love CCP. I love the Live Events team and the effort that goes into these. I really do feel like I am watching and sometimes participating in the shaping of EVE Online. Frankly for a roleplayer it's orgasmic. And I was forefront in defending CCP when people said the Battle for Caldari Prime was going to be a onesided railroaded set event. So I showed up, and got to watch a onesided railroaded set event. Now I would just like to say I am actually fine with setting up big events where one side is absolutely screwed and going to lose. I have nothing against the Caldari losing their grip on Caldari Prime(OOC anyways, IC it pisses me off. XD ). It's not my story to write, it's a world I have a character in and get to play in. I can write my story, but I cannot write the story of Caldari Prime. Also I think loss and hardship can make for interesting Role Play, and there is certainly buckets of loss and hardship being dished out today. BUT. CCP Falcon wrote: A storm is coming, and when it arrives your actions could either assist in maintaining a fragile stability, or usher in a new era in politics that will resonate across every world in New Eden. CCP Zulu wrote: The battleground is set, the fight belongs to you. Bullskittles. This fight did not belong to us. We could watch. But with it being in high sec, and there beign about 40-50 Caps on grid, half of them sieged Moros's blasting away and focusing firing, there is zero way players could've had any affect on that. I have no problem watching events. I love watching large scale things. But please do not sell events as "your actions" can make a difference and that the fight "belongs to you" when it doesn't. There are many subcap fleets that can take out those caps... Players could have a big influence on the results of the battle... Sure, some things are scripted to happen (titan going down), but that doesn't mean you can't have an influence...
Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 93	Posted - 2013.03.22 18:38:00 - [3] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: There are many subcap fleets that can take out those caps... Players could have a big influence on the results of the battle... Sure, some things are scripted to happen (titan going down), but that doesn't mean you can't have an influence... It is impossible to have had enough logi on the field to tank 25 sieged Moros with only subcap logi and have enough DPS on field to take down any of the capital ships. And that's assuming all few hundred on grid are cooperating in the same fleet.
Calathorn Virpio ZionTCD Legacy Rising 18	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:00:00 - [4] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: I understand you guys can't execute massively complex capital tactics, but allow me to remember something here. 10 Navy Raven's sit point blank on 10 blaster Navy Mega's. It resolved how everyone assumed it would. Now 5 Phoenix's sit point blank on 25 Moro's. Is there really any doubt the way it was going to end once both fleets were on field? I love CCP. I love the Live Events team and the effort that goes into these. I really do feel like I am watching and sometimes participating in the shaping of EVE Online. Frankly for a roleplayer it's orgasmic. And I was forefront in defending CCP when people said the Battle for Caldari Prime was going to be a onesided railroaded set event. So I showed up, and got to watch a onesided railroaded set event. Now I would just like to say I am actually fine with setting up big events where one side is absolutely screwed and going to lose. I have nothing against the Caldari losing their grip on Caldari Prime(OOC anyways, IC it pisses me off. XD ). It's not my story to write, it's a world I have a character in and get to play in. I can write my story, but I cannot write the story of Caldari Prime. Also I think loss and hardship can make for interesting Role Play, and there is certainly buckets of loss and hardship being dished out today. BUT. CCP Falcon wrote: A storm is coming, and when it arrives your actions could either assist in maintaining a fragile stability, or usher in a new era in politics that will resonate across every world in New Eden. CCP Zulu wrote: The battleground is set, the fight belongs to you. Bullskittles. This fight did not belong to us. We could watch. But with it being in high sec, and there beign about 40-50 Caps on grid, half of them sieged Moros's blasting away and focusing firing, there is zero way players could've had any affect on that. I have no problem watching events. I love watching large scale things. But please do not sell events as "your actions" can make a difference and that the fight "belongs to you" when it doesn't. only real thing i got to do was scoop wrecks, and even that was a nightmare due to the TiDi but totally aggre, hot dropping 30 capitals onto 1 titan, gee wg do you think will win? CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game
Inkarr Hashur Sine Nobilitatis 273	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:03:00 - [5] - Quote What gets me is this military action was supposed to result in Caldari basically nuking a bunch of gallente civilians they were holding "hostage" on the planet. Which would have made for interesting grey morality. But they didn't go through with it? Totally disappointed. Caldari lost a titan, their planet changed hands, and one of the more interesting military stalemates just evaporated as if it never existed. Disappointed again.
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn 6	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:03:00 - [6] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: It is impossible to have had enough logi on the field to tank 25 sieged Moros with only subcap logi and have enough DPS on field to take down any of the capital ships. And that's assuming all few hundred on grid are cooperating in the same fleet. I would have brought ECM. But since I wanted the titan down, I brought a blaster Brutix and had some fun.
Jassmin Joy Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings 77	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:08:00 - [7] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: Gizznitt Malikite wrote: There are many subcap fleets that can take out those caps... Players could have a big influence on the results of the battle... Sure, some things are scripted to happen (titan going down), but that doesn't mean you can't have an influence... It is impossible to have had enough logi on the field to tank 25 sieged Moros with only subcap logi and have enough DPS on field to take down any of the capital ships. And that's assuming all few hundred on grid are cooperating in the same fleet. Not sure if you understand how tracking works, but i'm going to go ahead and say that moros that had a tank capable of tanking the dps at first cant track most things. (t3 fleet anyone?) and there are fleets that would have had no issue taking those down.
Eram Fidard Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 63	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:09:00 - [8] - Quote Ok, time to pull some numbers out of my ass for the sake of argument. Let's say for ***** and giggles a scimitar can rep 800 DPS. Next, let's estimate the sieged moros' at 10k DPS apiece We'll eliminate the Wyverns' reps, and forget entirely about destroying the moros' SO, 25 moros = 250,000 DPS 250,000/800 = 312.5 So, 300-ish scimitars working together could in theory hold off the DPS of the 25 moros. Yep, "the fight belongs to you." alright....LOL fake edit: please, correct my 'maths' ahahaha real edit: are there even 300 scimis in jita?
Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 95	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:12:00 - [9] - Quote Pytria Le'Danness wrote: I would have brought ECM. But since I wanted the titan down, I brought a blaster Brutix and had some fun. At the start I got some jams on some Moros's that were slow to siege. After they wised up I jammed out Gallente RPer's in battleships and subcap logi. So it was pretty effective. But even if I kept all Gallente sided players jammed, the capital ships were the only thing deciding the battle.
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn 6	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:13:00 - [10] - Quote Oh, and before you really start complaining: when that titan was placed, it wasn't even possible to be there AND all gallente players got a giant "your nation is so cowardly they don't even defend their home system" stamp on their forehead. So for me it's even ground again
Hathrul DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized. 205	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:29:00 - [11] - Quote Eram Fidard wrote: Ok, time to pull some numbers out of my ass for the sake of argument. Let's say for *** and giggles a scimitar can rep 800 DPS. Next, let's estimate the sieged moros' at 10k DPS apiece We'll eliminate the Wyverns' reps, and forget entirely about destroying the moros' SO, 25 moros = 250,000 DPS 250,000/800 = 312.5 So, 300-ish scimitars working together could in theory hold off the DPS of the 25 moros. Yep, "the fight belongs to you." alright....LOL fake edit: please, correct my 'maths' ahahaha real edit: are there even 300 scimis in jita? so wrong a moros does about 12k dps, but its pointless apart from ships at long range or battleships, sieged dreads cant track for **. since there were just capitals, they cant web you, cant hit you, youre fine. any ship with an afterburner can kite the dread mob for eternity lets say and average ship does 400 dps. a single rep moros tanks about 5k iirc. so 15 of them is enough to overcome the tank there were 1500 players in system, 25 moros, 5 phoenix, 10 chimera and 8 (?) thanetos. any sizeble fleet in that system could have wiped them out in mere minutes at the start of teh fight i shot the wrong person and got concorded. This was about 2 minutes into the event. when i lost the timer so i could undock again, the live stream was down, as was the titan, several supers and most of the caldari caps the entire fight was about 15-20 minutes
Octoven Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming 59	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:31:00 - [12] - Quote Pytria Le'Danness wrote: Oh, and before you really start complaining: when that titan was placed, it wasn't even possible to be there AND all gallente players got a giant "your nation is so cowardly they don't even defend their home system" stamp on their forehead. So for me it's even ground again System yes, planet no...Caldari Prime is property of the Caldari...not the Gallente. If the Caldari had placed the titan in orbit of Gallente Prime I could understand, but to place it in orbit of thier home planet and warn fed citizens to abide by their rules...Hell I dont think thats too much to ask.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 1939	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:35:00 - [13] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: Gizznitt Malikite wrote: There are many subcap fleets that can take out those caps... Players could have a big influence on the results of the battle... Sure, some things are scripted to happen (titan going down), but that doesn't mean you can't have an influence... It is impossible to have had enough logi on the field to tank 25 sieged Moros with only subcap logi and have enough DPS on field to take down any of the capital ships. And that's assuming all few hundred on grid are cooperating in the same fleet. Getting a few hundred in fleet is not so unusual... especially for the large fleets... And it is very possible to speed tank a moros. Especially given it's CCP fitting and flying them... Did they bring lots of paints and 90% webs to properly support tracking Moros? There are no 90% web ships listed on eve-kill... so I highly doubt it. Without such support, even tracking fit Moros will have trouble blapping ships off the field (although some casualties will be had!).
William Loire Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction 32	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:37:00 - [14] - Quote CCP wanted the Titan to go down for obvious reasons, which isn't really a problem for anyone I suppose. It'll be interesting to see if they wanted Caldari Prime to switch hands as well and if that will be as scripted as the capsuleer battle. We all want to see Heth and the whole space n az i trope go down the drain but it's going to be a bit sad for Caldari supporters if we honestly had no chance to prevent the planet changing hands again.
Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 96	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:45:00 - [15] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Getting a few hundred in fleet is not so unusual... especially for the large fleets... And it is very possible to speed tank a moros. Especially given it's CCP fitting and flying them... Did they bring lots of paints and 90% webs to properly support tracking Moros? There are no 90% web ships listed on eve-kill... so I highly doubt it. Without such support, even tracking fit Moros will have trouble blapping ships off the field (although some casualties will be had!). You miss the point about three times in that post. First, yeah getting a few hundred in fleet is not a problem. I've been in 200 man fleets on occasion. But when local is limited to 1000, there's 300-500 on grid from all over the cluster, you're not going to have a 250 man fleet that is coordinated. Second, yeah, you can speed tank a Moros. Good for you, we're not talking about saving subcaps. The problem was saving the caps. Sieged Phoenix's are not going to speed tank a Moros. The Leviathan with full tank set is not going to speed tank 30 Moros. The whole idea is we could influence the story. And the story did not revolve around subcaps, it revolved around the Titan. And there was no way to save it. You can bring a fleet of 250 people, but they would all have to be Basilisks to even think about saving it. And if you do that, you are not going to have DPS to down any of the Moros's. So what do you do? Do you bring enough DPS to take down the Gallente fleet but the Caldari fleet dies first because 30 Moros, or enough Logi to save things against said Moros but you still lose because you can't take down the Gallente?
JAF Anders Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 68	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:51:00 - [16] - Quote Could we get the killmail posted on eve-kill?
Eram Fidard Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 63	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:53:00 - [17] - Quote well if you want to get picky....moros is capable of over 15k dps easily http://i.imgur.com/kHvWQSS.png?1 the whole point of pulling numbers out of my ass was to illustrate how incredibly unlikely it would be for anyone to have any significant impact on the event. It is equally unlikely for enough hisec randoms to pull together and destroy 15 moros in under 10 minutes as it is for 300 random scimitars to magically appear and rep the titan. https://adashboard.info/intel/dscan/view/AsAKrUpZ Run some 'maths' on that ;) *A storm came, and when it arrived your actions couldn't really either assist in maintaining a fragile stability, or usher in a new era in politics that would have resonated across every world in New Eden.
Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 96	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:56:00 - [18] - Quote I love you, Falcon, but... Eram Fidard wrote: A storm came, and when it arrived your actions couldn't really either assist in maintaining a fragile stability, or usher in a new era in politics that would have resonated across every world in New Eden.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 1939	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:00:00 - [19] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: You miss the point about three times in that post. ... The whole idea is we could influence the story. And the story did not revolve around subcaps, it revolved around the Titan. And there was no way to save it. .... You sound as if I care that the Titan was lost. I don't. I specificly said that the Caldari can lost and hurray! So what, I got to take part of the EVE story line. Which is what I am here for. The problem is that it was sold as something we could take part in and affect but in reality, there wasn't the ability to get enough Players on grid in ships that could alter the momentum of the Gallente fleet. You couldn't save the titan... we both agree on that... but you could influence how much it cost the Gallente to take it down... and I think that's where the player-told portion comes in.
Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 96	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:03:00 - [20] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: You couldn't save the titan... we both agree on that... but you could influence how much it cost the Gallente to take it down... and I think that's where the player-told portion comes in. I'm not sure what fight you were at but with all that Gallente carrier on field, there wasn't anything the player subcap fleet could do to them.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 191	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:03:00 - [21] - Quote Quick put up an Erebus there and get to the next live event (this time in USTZ) I want to shoot the Galls.
Dukanderson Galaxy Engineering 0	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:23:00 - [22] - Quote Did anyone see a doomsday from the titan?
Calathorn Virpio ZionTCD Legacy Rising 18	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:26:00 - [23] - Quote Dukanderson wrote: Did anyone see a doomsday from the titan? nope, scripted event, CCP didn't want to accidently pop one of their dreads CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game
Octoven Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming 61	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:26:00 - [24] - Quote Dukanderson wrote: Did anyone see a doomsday from the titan? Nope none at all, why because the time it took to take it down, the titan could have DDed them all. However, since CCP wanted to take the Titan down, they chose not to activate the DD. Seems pretty stupid to me and only further supports the theory of scripting.
Aveo Amacuse Section 8. 0	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:32:00 - [25] - Quote i just think that knowing what a small fleet of lets say 200 hurricanes can kill capitals quickly, specialy neuted sieged moroses, with the lock on the system nothing was to be done, if you had given the choice to let everyone who wanted to get in, things would be different. Talk bad about goons but they wanted to help caldari, and if you count their 200+ alpha fleet stuff would have happened.
kes88 Swords of Persephone 19	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:46:00 - [26] - Quote Stoked at the whole event, both in principle and reality. Disappointed at the lack of 'splosion when the Titan went. Disappointed at my total inability to tractor ANY wrecks. Sod fighting, when there's money to be made Want to actually get to blow stuff up next time
JAF Anders Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 68	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:52:00 - [27] - Quote Oblivion Attributes Banned in Empire Space 1 1=True 0=False
Gabriel Santagalos EVE University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:56:00 - [28] - Quote CCP themselves said it was technically impossible to actually just change Security Status of a system on the fly. I guess that was the reason the DD wasnt used. It was not like no Gallente capitals died. My only gripe with the event would be the player limit (i was there early enough, but got a disco). Perhapts it would have made more sense to let the fighting spread over a few systems, so everyone could have been in on the fun?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 175	Posted - 2013.03.22 23:02:00 - [29] - Quote Just to counter the 'there is no way anyone would have a large co-ordinated fleet' argument. FCORD dropped a 220 Man fleet onto that fight. Like most FCORD fleets, Composition wasn't perfect. And we did have a few still locked on gates. But we organised, we had planned weeks in advance right from the first rumour this may be in the works, we had spent days moving ships to be ready to fight, and we were ready. And we got the fleet, en mass, onto grid, and shooting primaries. Accordingly I present the 'Capital killed without Moros blapping' report. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19163612 Most of the fight we followed the Moros deliberatly in order to focus DPS even more so, but this one was early in the fight, when we hadn't synced properly with the Moros, and were blapping our own initial primaries.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 1156	Posted - 2013.03.22 23:15:00 - [30] - Quote The FCORD fleet was the one I scanned down on Gallente Prime? You lot warped in soon after the Dreads popped up. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008.

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