Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
This post is to propose a fix to the fact that eve is overrun with botters.
why is this such a big deal?
Because this entire world of eve is basically about making money, lets face it you don get any experience for killing rats or destroying hard to kill bots, or risking ur life for a hard to get asteroid... The only payoff in playing long hours in front of your computer at this game is ISK. The training of your character is completely separate thus making ISK in all the various ways the game allows you to, is the single and only reason to play the game. Now of course you say "Thats not the only reason!". Well yes you play to have fun you play to kill other pilots but in the end you must make vast amounts of ISK to do any of the things in this game that you like to do. Players that can bot sit in high sec and make large amounts of money with no risk, and now that the mining barges have been changed to make them more resistant to suicide ganks that problem has gotten even worse. There are endless threads about how this game is moving more and more away from low sec and player vs player, to high sec and player vs environment. This statement i think we can all say is true.
"CCP is already hard at work stopping botters!"
First of all there is no way CCP can keep up with detecting and banning botters, they do their best but in the end have failed to make it undesirable to bot, and botting continues for over a decade now... So lets be honest and concede that CCP has failed to mitigate the influence of botting on the market and in turn the game. They have lost the battle and its too important a battle to lose because of as i said in the above paragraph EVE is about making money to do the things you love.
Ok so what can be done to fix it?
I propose a 3-pronged approach to eliminate botters and their 3rd party programs from the game completely.
2) Nerf the mining output of all ships by a flat percentage as this flat percentage nerf will come into play in next step.
1) Add in a type of "Mini-game" to mining. Something like a power modulation bar. Where you try to keep the power in the center of the optimal mining zone the power modulation bar by hitting some buttons. The power will fluctuate randomly and the player must compensate. Keeping your power in the optimal zone yields bonus % to your mining yield (this compensates for the across the board nerf of mining yield).
3) GIVE EVERYONE A BUILT IN MINING BOT?!?! Mining is already so boring you can almost feel your brain cells dieing with every cycle of your lasers. This is one of the reasons so many people use mining bots. Its not only because they can make money without being there but because to mine and make any decent usable ISK doing so requires un-godly amounts of mind numbing hours. So give people mining bots that will let them mine and gain reduced ISK per hour than being an active miner and using the modulation bar. In this way you will basically be giving the player a passive ISK income to mach the passive experience they get. This will allow players to progress forward in the game (buying better ships, equipment) despite having their entire fortune wiped out in a pvp encounter or a mission failure. This will keep players from rage quitting eve and give new players a way to actually be able to afford new ships as they become available through training. Obviously the devil is in the details by this i mean how much isk someone can make using the bot would have to be greatly reduced from the amount a player can make mining in person at the computer but at least this small trickle of ISK can recoup a players losses over time after a devastating loss of ships. Giving them time to cool off and re group rather then forcing them to sit in front of their computer for 8 hrs a day for the next 5 days just to get back to playing the game they want to play. |
Alexa Coates
Federation Navy Assembly Group LLC
311
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
how bout no That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
how about you posted that 2 seconds after i posted topic so you didnt even read it |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13373
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote: 1) Add in a type of "Mini-game" to mining. Something like a power modulation bar. Where you try to keep the power in the center of the optimal mining zone the power modulation bar by hitting some buttons. The power will fluctuate randomly and the player must compensate. Keeping your power in the optimal zone yields bonus % to your mining yield (this compensates for the across the board nerf of mining yield).
GǪso a bit like mining in Galaxy on Fire? Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gallamoth Sickle wrote: 1) Add in a type of "Mini-game" to mining. Something like a power modulation bar. Where you try to keep the power in the center of the optimal mining zone the power modulation bar by hitting some buttons. The power will fluctuate randomly and the player must compensate. Keeping your power in the optimal zone yields bonus % to your mining yield (this compensates for the across the board nerf of mining yield).
GǪso a bit like mining in Galaxy on Fire?
i never played that game but if they are already doing something like this then maybe it would work. But this is just an idea and there could be millions of diff ways to do a mini game while mining |
Lea Swiftfoot
Kingdom Mauraders Syndicate
15
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
OP, your stupid, first off, mining is very profitable even if you do sit in front of your computer for 8 hours like myself. every haul i make 4 mil, and a haul is every 10 mins. = lots of isk. personally i just like to look at the lasers rip the rotating space rocks apart, and i also look up things on the market while im mining. overall very productive for me. personally i dont like botters and wouldnt want one myself because i get a sense of achievement from my mining. also, you can run missions for isk to replenish your ship losses, or go ratting in belts lower down. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
40
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
This topic has been moved to the Features and Ideas Discussion forum. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lea Swiftfoot wrote:OP, your stupid, first off, mining is very profitable even if you do sit in front of your computer for 8 hours like myself. every haul i make 4 mil, and a haul is every 10 mins. = lots of isk. personally i just like to look at the lasers rip the rotating space rocks apart, and i also look up things on the market while im mining. overall very productive for me. personally i dont like botters and wouldnt want one myself because i get a sense of achievement from my mining. also, you can run missions for isk to replenish your ship losses, or go ratting in belts lower down.
yea well its kinda hard to go make ISK missioning if you lose ur ship isnt it? And you dont make nearly any money in missions until you get to mission level 4. In which case you need an expensive ship with expensive equipment to do the the lvl 4 missions, in order to make the isk.
You mention that you make 4 million hauling every 10 min... so obviously if your hauling ur not solo mining you probly have multi account which kinda exempts you from accurately potraying the common miner. And dont try to BS people anyone with a remote intellegence knows your not making 4 million ever 10 mins solo mining so come clean and dont try to make false claims to prove ur point wich is an epic fail if you pull apart the numbers. |
Lea Swiftfoot
Kingdom Mauraders Syndicate
15
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:Lea Swiftfoot wrote:OP, your stupid, first off, mining is very profitable even if you do sit in front of your computer for 8 hours like myself. every haul i make 4 mil, and a haul is every 10 mins. = lots of isk. personally i just like to look at the lasers rip the rotating space rocks apart, and i also look up things on the market while im mining. overall very productive for me. personally i dont like botters and wouldnt want one myself because i get a sense of achievement from my mining. also, you can run missions for isk to replenish your ship losses, or go ratting in belts lower down. yea well its kinda hard to go make ISK missioning if you lose ur ship isnt it? And you dont make nearly any money in missions until you get to mission level 4. In which case you need an expensive ship with expensive equipment to do the the lvl 4 missions, in order to make the isk. You mention that you make 4 million hauling every 10 min... so obviously if your hauling ur not solo mining you probly have multi account which kinda exempts you from accurately potraying the common miner. And dont try to BS people anyone with a remote intellegence knows your not making 4 million ever 10 mins solo mining so come clean and dont try to make false claims to prove ur point wich is an epic fail if you pull apart the numbers.
first off if you only have 1 ship, your ******* dumb, secondly if you are in low sec with a bs, your ******* dumb, and thirdly i only have 1 account and 1 character that i use, so that is the way it is, your ******* dumb. PS. insurance, it saves lives. PPS. your still ******* dumb. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
288
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Considering the pushes for pos changes and what not it might be a bit more feasible to have some sort of "mini pos" to park into a belt and have it mine for you. Like a bot, or PI installation, but at a slower rate than a mining exhumer.
This could also be improved upon by belt content and placement of said mini poses. It would also encourage highsec pvp (wardecs etc) for mining/industrial corps because you could also have defensive measures on them (smaller scale than full poses).
It would help eliminate the bot element (but not end it fully obviously) but also help in regards to market prices without having to worry about running multiple accounts just to fund your pvp pilot.
Since mining seems to be an integral element of eve, and has attracted an undesirable effect from people who do not wish to even play the game themselves.... this COULD be a way to help.
Not to say replace exhumers, leave those in, but it would also help to strip belts faster (more pos, even at slower rate) which would help curtail bots just flying back and forth.
How to apply that to ice, which is where the REAL problem is, is going to take some doing since ice rocks are freakin huge.
Maybe make those poses mine ice only, I dunno.
Feel free to poke holes in this, I'm only being a part of the conversation. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Saint Hecate
Big Diggers Trifectas Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
I personally wouldnt call having one miner common nowadays. Id honestly say on average people have more than 1 account especially when mining. The major problem i see with the power modulation thing is its like most anti-bot mechanics, all it does is hurt/annoy the real player while the bot will find a way around it. Its like DRM in piracy. All it does is hurt the legit person.
OP I wont say your idea's are bad as you honestly put effort into thinking everything out but I dont think they will help in the way you expect. |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Saint Hecate wrote:I personally wouldnt call having one miner common nowadays. Id honestly say on average people have more than 1 account especially when mining. The major problem i see with the power modulation thing is its like most anti-bot mechanics, all it does is hurt/annoy the real player while the bot will find a way around it. Its like DRM in piracy. All it does is hurt the legit person.
OP I wont say your idea's are bad as you honestly put effort into thinking everything out but I dont think they will help in the way you expect.
you might be right about bots finding a way around a modulation bar but its just an idea there has got to be somethign they can do to make in person mining more entertaining and un replicable by bots.
and you bring up a good point a lot of people have multiple mining accounts and a lot of those people also run bots.... on those accounts while they play their main pvp toon on their main computer. It doesnt take much to have a laptop running on the table with bots while you play main pvp toon all day.
thats just the problem those people that do do mining are ussually the ones that run multi accounts and bots most legit players give up mining all together and run missions for money. This is more of a reason to fix mining as a whole and eliminate botters in my opinion. |
Hustomte
FutureTech Industrial Inc.
94
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Posted - 2013.03.23 20:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
I agree that the OP is both naive, opinionated, and out of touch with reality. I have one toon, I mine with my corp (ie other players) and I play Eve with PEOPLE - not bots or myself.
In mission running I fly a Scimitar repping our lowbie corpmates so they can make standings, isk, and LP. They get better ships, learn skills from the older players and generally enjoy Eve Online.
Life is not about money and Eve is not about only isk. Go makes some friends for a change, you'll be happier trust me. ...Signature... |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 21:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hustomte wrote:I agree that the OP is both naive, opinionated, and out of touch with reality. I have one toon, I mine with my corp (ie other players) and I play Eve with PEOPLE - not bots or myself.
In mission running I fly a Scimitar repping our lowbie corpmates so they can make standings, isk, and LP. They get better ships, learn skills from the older players and generally enjoy Eve Online.
Life is not about money and Eve is not about only isk. Go makes some friends for a change, you'll be happier trust me.
just a idiot troll post.
I do this i do that I...I... I....
ok so just because you dont see or play with bots there is no bot problem or bots dont effect the game?
What exactly does you helping ur corpmates complete missions have to do with botting?
i think your off topic, childish and ur post is a display of how stupid you are due to the fact that ur complaining about imagined topics that have nothign to do with OP. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
199
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Posted - 2013.03.23 21:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Topic temporarily locked to do some cleaning. ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
199
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Posted - 2013.03.23 22:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Right, first of, the OP has the right to post an idea to discuss and has the right to expect a civil and healthy discussion as a result. You don't have to agree, but post your arguments in a civil manner please. This goes both ways by the way.
Thread cleaned and reopened.
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting. ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Jess Tanner
Hard Knocks Inc.
20
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Posted - 2013.03.23 22:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:how about you posted that 2 seconds after i posted topic so you didnt even read it
no, nor should anyone |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
769
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:"CCP is already hard at work stopping botters!"
A simple look at Jita local calls BULLSHIT. I'm not entirely clear on the point of this, but I do have a sudden urge to jump in a catalyst and blow up a miner. Twitter! - @AzamiNevinyrall I'm half expecting a ban for this post. |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 22:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jess Tanner wrote:Gallamoth Sickle wrote:how about you posted that 2 seconds after i posted topic so you didnt even read it no, nor should anyone
well if you dont like the idea of a game created bot too bad cause your playing a game where everyone with a months supbscription in their bank account has one so...if you want to lvl the playing field for all players and eliminate botting all together id like to hear your alternative and better itdea |
Sentamon
784
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Posted - 2013.03.23 23:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mining and EVE overall would be a lot more fun for everyone if you could send out a fleet of mining ships (bots if you will) that people could blow up instead of players sitting in a tanked up barge scared to lose their implants.
Just my 2cents.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
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Zircon Dasher
159
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Posted - 2013.03.24 00:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Mining and EVE overall would be a lot more fun for everyone if you could send out a fleet of mining ships (bots if you will) that people could blow up
Have you met my friend MINING CORP CEO? This has been a semi-lucrative feature for the past decade Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.03.25 05:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
bump
have the devs said anything about their failure to combat botting and their plans to stop it? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
893
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Posted - 2013.03.25 05:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 for bot. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Shaxx Traitoris
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.03.25 07:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
I can see a mining mini-game quickly becoming more tedious than the current system which allows focus on other monitors to watch YouTube, Netflix and por... tugal.
How to make it interesting? Ramp up the usefulness dramatically of null and low security space mining (which may or may not in fact be coming in Odyssey). The barges will follow and so will the pirate attacks and the need to repulse them.
Mercenaries, corporation mates and bounty hunters would need to rise in response. All of which sounds like a lot of fun for both sides, the miners just wanting to get the haul back to station with all their limbs and the defense force looking to protect their own with their lives.
Mining with real profit is not a solo operation as it is. You use multiple accounts and join mining corporations to help your bottom line. This would just extend it a bit further to require a player versus player alt too standing by and or a new militant wing of your corporation or one hired for the job. That is, if you even want to risk it for the new ramped up profit.
This is the point where you yell 'griefer', but without conflict there are no games or stories to be made and subsequently no entertainment. Without risk things are dull, without an opponent there is no game. Mining is no different than this.
And this is not an alt, I am still playing Skill Training Online at the moment and am simply offering a new player's opinion on the matter. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
230
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Posted - 2013.03.25 08:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Giving everyone a mining bot would be horrifically bad.
Part of the reason CCP tries to get rid of bots (aside from ISK sales) is that by being able to operate by themselves for long periods of time without supervision, they are able to collect a lot of ore which skews supply, depressing income from not only mining, but manufacture. In short bots are extremely bad for the in game economy, so giving one to everyone would wreck the economy. Besides, a bot for everyone would not have the effect you seem to want from them. It is not an ISK printing service, since you still have to sell the ore, and all the additional ore that this would cause to show up on the market would cause the price of ore to tank, quickly making said bots of little value to the players and utterly destroying mining as a profession. |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.03.25 17:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
so you are sayng CCP means for mining to be dull, moneyless action that is only viable with multiple accounts? im not so sure i agree with either CCP wanting mining to be a "bots" profession and/or it is not meant to make money? Although as it stands now clearly both of these things are true. |
Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.03.25 17:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Giving everyone a mining bot would be horrifically bad.
Part of the reason CCP tries to get rid of bots (aside from ISK sales) is that by being able to operate by themselves for long periods of time without supervision, they are able to collect a lot of ore which skews supply, depressing income from not only mining, but manufacture. In short bots are extremely bad for the in game economy, so giving one to everyone would wreck the economy. Besides, a bot for everyone would not have the effect you seem to want from them. It is not an ISK printing service, since you still have to sell the ore, and all the additional ore that this would cause to show up on the market would cause the price of ore to tank, quickly making said bots of little value to the players and utterly destroying mining as a profession.
i think ur wrong about a few things and right about 1.
you explain why bots are bad yes i think everyone knows the why i even did the same thing in my OP so this is the right part of ur statement. and the first half of it.
ur second half says i want bots to have the effect of being an ISK printing machine... no where in anything i have typed is that even remotely suggested so this is completely false. that is not the effect i want to have, and ill explain the effect i want to have for you so ur not confused. I think if you give everyone a bot then the market will balance out and bots wont be such an advantage for people that use them.
You talk about destroying the market, id have to disagree the market is already destroyed and i think this would heal it. See the price of minerals may drop but then so does the price of ships becasue they are cheaper to build. THere would be distabalization for a time while the marke prices balance out but in the end if mineral prices go down the cost of all items in the game go down.
2nd point to argue ur last point that mining would be destroyed. I suggested nerfing the yeild of bot mining and adding in a type of mini game so that personal player mining yeilds a great more minerals and isk. See it is a fact that mining is very boring and time consuming and most peole (as so many of you have mentioned) do not even bother mining anymore unless they run multiple accounts and bots. Basically in any high sec system you go to these days you can pick any miner you see in a belt and there is a 90% chance they are botting. So when you say that bots will destroy the market your taking the position that bots dont already exist in large numbers and that they have not ALREADY destroyed the market years ago.
If you dont think the market is destroyed start up a new character and try to make enough money to afford new ships as your training completes for them and you will find its nearly impossible to get 140 million isk without A) seilling a plex or B) getting another char to fund you. THere is a huge gap between low lvl ships for missions 1-3 and low lvl battle ships for missions 4 and there is no need to even talk about the insane prices for tech 2 ships. THere is a definate gap where if you dont already have the money you cant make the money.
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Gallamoth Sickle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.03.25 18:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Proof CCP doesnt care to stop botting and that its out of control and all players should get a bot since its un stoppable.
these screen shots are from today.
http://imageshack.us/f/845/botting2.png/ |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
70
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Posted - 2013.03.26 09:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Giving everyone a mining bot would be horrifically bad.
Part of the reason CCP tries to get rid of bots (aside from ISK sales) is that by being able to operate by themselves for long periods of time without supervision, they are able to collect a lot of ore which skews supply, depressing income from not only mining, but manufacture. In short bots are extremely bad for the in game economy, so giving one to everyone would wreck the economy. Besides, a bot for everyone would not have the effect you seem to want from them. It is not an ISK printing service, since you still have to sell the ore, and all the additional ore that this would cause to show up on the market would cause the price of ore to tank, quickly making said bots of little value to the players and utterly destroying mining as a profession.
Hold on...
More and more cheaper minerals on the market is bad for players in what way? Ships would be cheaper to buy and use. People would find it easier to do stuff when they don't need to work countless of hours to get the isks for a shiny ship they neeed and so on. How is this a bad thing that prices would come down? They have been going up for the past god know how long now. Plus if everyone had a bot at least everyone would be on the same level. You could not complain that someone is botting cause you could do it also.
I'm not saying I totaly agree with this bot idea but at least the op explains him self and has few good points. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1296
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 13:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
More (and cheaper) ships and minerals aren't a bad thing by themselves. But we're finally seeing the economy turn around and be where it was (more or less) intended to be, under the assumption that the "baseprice" is the absolute lowest something should cost.
baseprice / current (eve-Central Jita Median Sell) price / current (eve-central Jita Median Buy) / current buy/sell average
Trit -- 2 / 5.99 / 5.50 / 5.75 (+187.25%) Pyer -- 8 / 15.84 / 13.55 / 14.70 (+83.69%) Mex -- 32 / 61.99 / 46.59 / 54.29 (+69.66%) Iso -- 128 / 155.61 / 141.62 / 148.62 (+16.11%) Nox -- 512 / 912.69 / 801.66 / 857.18 (+67.42%) Zyd -- 2,048 / 1,348.99 / 520.09 / 934.54 (-54.37%) Mega -- 8,192 / 3,199 / 2,161.18 / 2680.09 (-67.28%) One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
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