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Ayn Rand
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ayn Rand on 26/07/2003 17:03:08
Today, Taggart miners were attacked in empire space. Battleships were sent to engage and an exploit was used to try destroy the battleships. None were lost, and the details will be listed below. I advise you all to watch out for this tactic until it is fixed by CCP.
Exploit summary: Draining capacitor should be seen as a hostile act in Empire space by Concord.
TaggartÆs enemies have created a front corp, called "Going Limp", as they are obviously too spineless to attempt this gutless tactic with their real corporation. It is a one-man corp led by Femme Fatale, who flies a Maller.
Femme Fatale uses the services of his partner ôShintaiö in Coretech, another spineless corp using this exploit. Shintai flies a Megathron.
Now let me back up for a moment here. Because of game design, we can only fire on corps that we are at war with. We are not at war with Coretech, nor can we declare war on them because of a bug that remains unfixed (we declared 3 wars several months ago, all of which have been resolved, but all of which still remain active in the game interface).
Here is what happened:
1)We sent a battleship in to engage Femme Fatale outside of Amsen station (Caldari starting station 1.0 security zone).
2)Femme Fatale docked
3)Shintai come over in his Megathron battleship and drained the cap of the Taggart Apocalypse battleship
4)Femme Fatale undocked and opened fire on the Taggart battleship.
5)Taggart battleship unable to respond offensively because it had no cap and could not warp away.
Taggart did not lose the battleship, btw, because he managed to warp away when got a little blip of cap between drainings.
Now, the problem is ShintaiÆs capacitor draining was not seen as a hostile act by Concord. We cannot fire on Shintai because we are not at war with them, and Concord would come in and destroy our ship.
Capacitor draining is obviously a hostile act, and it ties our hands when fighting in the Empire, effectively making Concord the ally of the attacker.
So, as can be seen, this is truly a gutless tactic. A more manly and mature way to carry out a war is to come after our mining crews in non-secure space, where our miners are protected.
Ayn Rand, Taggart Transdimensional
Ayn Rand - Taggart |
Halo Jones
|
Posted - 2003.07.26 17:08:00 -
[2]
most interesting, didnt realise this could be done... just how long did it take for the battleship cap to be drained? surely even with good pirate modules this would have taken quite some time? did the pilot notice what was occuring?
Oberon Incorporated. |
Ganja
|
Posted - 2003.07.26 17:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ganja on 26/07/2003 17:13:12
I'm sorry.. I was there for the whole thing. You repeatively state "Battleships" which is plural as you know. There was only one Megathron, and one Apocalypse.
The Megathron, and the Maller destroyed 6 of TTI's ships as of 1:04 PM EST (Eastern Standard Time), and 5 podded.
This "tactic" I do not feel to be an exploit, as cap draining can be used with allies/gang members to share capacitor, there for.. keeping it from being "offensive."
Maybe I'm wrong but.. there is always, you may not be able to find it yet, but there is always an antidote for the poison.
Here is a log of the local chat:
------------------------------------------------------------
Channelname: Local
Listener: Ganja
Session started: 2003.07.26 14:46:18
------------------------------------------------------------
[ 2003.07.26 15:00:34 ] Furbie > any new players want to get a good start then join my corp for a free ship
[ 2003.07.26 15:05:18 ] Protek Xur > femme Fatal why did you attack me?
[ 2003.07.26 15:05:29 ] Protek Xur > Femme Fatal has just killed my ship and podded me
[ 2003.07.26 15:05:38 ] Protek Xur > in Roid Belt VII
[ 2003.07.26 15:06:21 ] Protek Xur > whats the reason@?
[ 2003.07.26 15:06:40 ] Verleihnix > mhh
[ 2003.07.26 15:07:23 ] Femme Fatal > huh?!?
[ 2003.07.26 15:07:30 ] Femme Fatal > HARRRR
[ 2003.07.26 15:08:57 ] Protek Xur > Do you have a reason?
[ 2003.07.26 15:09:06 ] Protek Xur > fine language you have there btw
[ 2003.07.26 15:09:19 ] Femme Fatal > HAR HAR
[ 2003.07.26 15:09:31 ] Protek Xur > ah, the dimbwit is exposed
[ 2003.07.26 15:09:40 ] Protek Xur > do you have a reason?
[ 2003.07.26 15:09:58 ] Femme Fatal > Harr?
[ 2003.07.26 15:10:22 ] Verleihnix > femme go an play cs plz
[ 2003.07.26 15:10:53 ] Sp1key > yeah.. get outa here.
[ 2003.07.26 15:11:03 ] Protek Xur > Femme who are you? whats the point?
[ 2003.07.26 15:11:46 ] Protek Xur > why don't you just go away?
[ 2003.07.26 15:12:21 ] Protek Xur > why did you pod me?
[ 2003.07.26 15:12:57 ] Sp1key > Protek Xur: If you need a new ship I can get you one for free.
[ 2003.07.26 15:13:00 ] Ganja > What happened?
[ 2003.07.26 15:13:46 ] Protek Xur > Femme fatal killed and podded me in VII belt
[ 2003.07.26 15:13:57 ] Ganja > Why'd he do that?
[ 2003.07.26 15:14:28 ] Protek Xur > she apparently but judging by their communication skills i doubt they know wtf they are
[ 2003.07.26 15:14:29 ] neros > ffs man im gutted protek :(((
[ 2003.07.26 15:14:44 ] Lance60266 > where are the cops
[ 2003.07.26 15:14:53 ] Protek Xur > whats happened Neros?
[ 2003.07.26 15:14:56 ] Protek Xur > did she attack you?
[ 2003.07.26 15:15:02 ] Protek Xur > where are the Police ffs!
[ 2003.07.26 15:15:05 ] neros > no m8
[ 2003.07.26 15:15:18 ] neros > you insured??
[ 2003.07.26 15:15:50 ] Shintai > cops will get him soon I hope :(
[ 2003.07.26 15:15:52 ] neros > wots her ****in nme??
[ 2003.07.26 15:16:39 ] Ganja > Femme Fatal.. or so says the bar
[ 2003.07.26 15:17:13 ] Furbie > any1 got cpu's upgrades for sale ?
[ 2003.07.26 15:17:27 ] Protek Xur > Fghulds you are going to die my friend
[ 2003.07.26 15:17:32 ] Protek Xur > you will die repeatedly from now on
[ 2003.07.26 15:17:43 ] Protek Xur > do you really think i'm that stupid you tit
[ 2003.07.26 15:18:12 ] Verleihnix > yeah femme fatal kos
[ 2003.07.26 15:18:34 ] Ganja > Where are you guys? Maybe if we all gang together we can take her out..?
[ 2003.07.26 15:19:52 ] Furbie > i can call a m8 if hes online to help
[ 2003.07.26 15:20:38 ] Furbie > damn hes offline
[ 2003.07.26 15:20:48 ] Protek Xur > the **** is outside the station camping
[ 2003.07.26 15:20:54 ] Ganja > no, she's outside the station
[ 2003.07.26 15:20:59 ] Furbie > where are u m8
[ 2003.07.26 15:21:18 ] Protek Xur > Now in Amsen Station
[ 2003.07.26 15:21:20 ] Ganja > the cops don't seem to attack in this system, so I think we can all just take her out
[ 2003.07.26 15:21:49 ] Furbie > i can equip 3 lasers and help
[ 2003.07.26 15:22:21 ] Ganja > I can get my 1500mm gun and throw it on my ship.. it does alot of damage, but the more help the better?
[ 2003.07.26 15:22:22 ] Protek Xur > no Ganja
[ 2003.07.26 15:22:29 ] Protek Xur > she has war'd with me so police will not protect me
[ 2003.07.26 15:22:47 ] Protek Xur > if you attack her the police will kill you
[ 2003.07.26 15:22:54 ] Protek Xur > I believe this to be Fghulds
[ 2003.07.26 15:23:10 ] Protek Xur > who was thievin' my ore earlier,
[ 2003.07.26 15:23:13 ] Protek Xur > they took my ore also
[ 2003.07.26 15:23:41 ] Sp1key > I can help to if needed to kill that ****..
[ 2003.07.26 15:24:01 ] Furbie > gang******her
[ 2003.07.26 15:24:21 ] Sp1key > hehe
[ 2003.07.26 15:24:25 ] Ganja > cops haven't attacked me yet.. i got 4 shots off on her before she started firing..im docking for repairs..
[ 2003.07.26 15:24:45 ] Furbie > what ship she in ?
|
Ganja
|
Posted - 2003.07.26 17:13:00 -
[4]
[ 2003.07.26 15:24:51 ] Ganja > a maller
[ 2003.07.26 15:25:00 ] Furbie > weapons ?
[ 2003.07.26 15:25:21 ] Ganja > not too powerful
[ 2003.07.26 15:25:41 ] Furbie > 4-5 frigates kill here
[ 2003.07.26 15:26:39 ] Protek Xur > is she still outside station?
[ 2003.07.26 15:26:44 ] Protek Xur > can we go out yet?
[ 2003.07.26 15:27:27 ] Furbie > i will return to station i fit out my rifter and attack her
[ 2003.07.26 15:27:57 ] Furbie > spikey u returned ?
[ 2003.07.26 15:28:07 ] Sp1key > Furb: PM
[ 2003.07.26 15:28:47 ] Protek Xur > Femem Fatal rejectd my chat request
[ 2003.07.26 15:30:06 ] Furbie > all my powerful m8 are offline line atm they love killing PK
[ 2003.07.26 15:31:07 ] Furbie > whats the targets name ?
[ 2003.07.26 15:31:33 ] Ganja > Femme Fatal, my sensor dampeners are keeping her from targetting me..
[ 2003.07.26 15:31:46 ] Protek Xur > good, is she trying to target you?
[ 2003.07.26 15:31:58 ] Ganja > she isn't able
[ 2003.07.26 15:32:41 ] Ganja > but i was out of ammo.. so I only have this small gun, cops aren't coming.. but I can't take her out myself, her shields regenerate faster then my gun causes damage
[ 2003.07.26 15:33:09 ] Ganja > so I need help
[ 2003.07.26 15:33:18 ] Furbie > ok on my way 4-5 kill that *****
[ 2003.07.26 15:33:52 ] Ganja > Anyone else?
[ 2003.07.26 15:34:19 ] Furbie > femme fatel we have to kill yes
[ 2003.07.26 15:34:23 ] Ganja > She seems to have a tech II shield booster.. so I dunno if just 2 people can take her ;d
[ 2003.07.26 15:34:48 ] Talur Lokarn > what ship she flying?
[ 2003.07.26 15:34:53 ] Ganja > Maller
[ 2003.07.26 15:35:00 ] dubious > So, which of you two is running Femme Fatal on the other computer?
[ 2003.07.26 15:35:16 ] dubious > You trying to get newbies to get podded so you can take their stuff?
[ 2003.07.26 15:35:30 ] Ganja > i'm running a p3 447mhz 192mb sdram, i'm surprised I can even run eve
[ 2003.07.26 15:36:10 ] Protek Xur > right ok, Where is Fghulds? and isn't it a coincidence he isn't here now when he has been on for the past week
[ 2003.07.26 15:36:19 ] dubious > Well, Femme has an exactly 0.0 sec rating so I doubt she has attacked much here.
[ 2003.07.26 15:36:21 ] Protek Xur > after he pinched my ore
[ 2003.07.26 15:36:23 ] Sp1key > IŠm going in to combat zone
[ 2003.07.26 15:36:33 ] Ganja > Femme podded Protek
[ 2003.07.26 15:36:46 ] Talur Lokarn > she declares war on the corporations first
[ 2003.07.26 15:37:03 ] Sp1key > WTF!!!!
[ 2003.07.26 15:37:17 ] Sp1key > why did I get attack by police now????
[ 2003.07.26 15:37:40 ] dubious > Beacuse they are lieing to you.
[ 2003.07.26 15:38:14 ] thesulei > anyone in an indy ship want to team up to mine ?
[ 2003.07.26 15:38:15 ] Sp1key > who are?
[ 2003.07.26 15:38:32 ] dubious > Herer comes ganja now to collect the stuff you left behind.
[ 2003.07.26 15:38:47 ] Shintai > I bet Protek lied and made us come here
[ 2003.07.26 15:39:07 ] dubious > Yep. Shoot at Femme Fatal, the police will pod ya and they get your loot.
[ 2003.07.26 15:39:07 ] Protek Xur > what?
[ 2003.07.26 15:39:10 ] Protek Xur > i don't lie
[ 2003.07.26 15:39:21 ] Sp1key > then WHO is?
[ 2003.07.26 15:39:31 ] Sp1key > I got killed for your sake Protek.
[ 2003.07.26 15:39:54 ] neros > i saw it you ****ers ok
[ 2003.07.26 15:39:55 ] Protek Xur > what? i told you not to attack her Sp1key
[ 2003.07.26 15:40:01 ] Protek Xur > Neros?
[ 2003.07.26 15:40:07 ] neros > protek did fukall ok
[ 2003.07.26 15:40:11 ] Protek Xur > what are you on about?
[ 2003.07.26 15:40:49 ] Protek Xur > Neros read PM please
[ 2003.07.26 15:40:52 ] neros > there saying you lied
[ 2003.07.26 15:40:55 ] dubious > Taggart Transdimensional should kick you for this one.
[ 2003.07.26 15:41:05 ] Protek Xur > who me?
[ 2003.07.26 15:41:22 ] Talur Lokarn > um dubious...
[ 2003.07.26 15:41:28 ] Protek Xur > i haven't attacked anyone. Femme Fatal killed my ship and podded me
[ 2003.07.26 15:41:33 ] dubious > Yes?
[ 2003.07.26 15:41:35 ] Talur Lokarn > Femme Fatal blew up one of taggarts miners..
[ 2003.07.26 15:41:46 ] Talur Lokarn > well, two i guess.
[ 2003.07.26 15:42:17 ] dubious > Then how does Femme still have exactly a 0.0 sec rating with no police attacking?
[ 2003.07.26 15:42:28 ] Talur Lokarn > because she declared war on taggart
[ 2003.07.26 15:42:30 ] dubious > Three newbies just got podded attacking her at Amsen station.
[ 2003.07.26 15:43:01 ] Talur Lokarn > so she attacks taggart without repercution and that's why Protek was telling them not to attack her.
[ 2003.07.26 15:43:05 ] Sp1key > really funny.. iŠl remeber that joke.
[ 2003.07.26 15:43:11 ] dubious > Well, then don't involved newbies. They get podded. Ganja goes and collects the loot. That's a scam.
[ 2003.07.26 15:43:31 ] Talur Lokarn > Ganja's not in taggart is he?
[ 2003.07.26 15:43:43 ] dubious > Nope - TheCorp.
[ 2003.07.26 15:43:54 ] Talur Lokarn > and protek was saying not to attack femme because of that
|
Femme Fatal
|
Posted - 2003.07.26 17:14:00 -
[5]
Well apparently you seem to be addressing my freelancing corporation dear Ragnar.
Yes I did hear upon rejoining Eve that TTI is still about, and infact that they are the largest, richest and therefore most unorganized corp in Eve. Yes this led me to declare war on your corporation. Yes I plan on taking your equipment, and corpses.
However the rest seems to quite inaccurate. Shintai did fly with me, and yes he did use cap drainers. He also transfered me shields and capacitator. Infact he was my mobile battery. You call this an exploit. I call this the result of my 3 charisma
Comment removed, remember that people that read these forums might be a bit too young for comments like this - Wrangler
and the inability to train social 3 for ethnic relations.
He came to me asking to join my lil escapade in search for a little fun and I said he could tag along, since we didnt feel like waiting while I sit at the books and learn how to accept other cultures, we equipped him to help me and headed out.
Yes we headed out to liberate ore from the grasps of caldari industrials, yes we set out in search for riches. Then we got called cowards for attacking a 300 member corp which couldnt assemble more than 1 battleship over the course of 4 hours. Gosh.. Im truly sorry 
I might amend that I should be done training soon and that I will then be able to allow my gallente friend into my corporation, and this "exploiting" will have an end.
Till then good day.
You can message me ingame about surrender payments if it pleases you.
-Femme
|
Ganja
|
Posted - 2003.07.26 17:14:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ganja on 26/07/2003 17:21:03
[ 2003.07.26 15:44:42 ] dubious > Whatever. It worked. Pockets are lined and newbies need new ships.
[ 2003.07.26 15:44:54 ] dubious > You guys are huge. Why don't you outfit them all again?
[ 2003.07.26 15:45:08 ] Ganja > What loot? all that is around are civilian shield boosters.. what doo would that do me?
[ 2003.07.26 15:45:12 ] Protek Xur > Dubious did she attack you?
[ 2003.07.26 15:45:25 ] dubious > Nobody attacked me.
[ 2003.07.26 15:45:34 ] dubious > I just watched the newbies go down like flies.
[ 2003.07.26 15:45:40 ] Protek Xur > and your blaming me?
[ 2003.07.26 15:45:48 ] Sp1key > dub: why didnt you tell us then?
[ 2003.07.26 15:46:06 ] Sp1key > How do I restore my security status ?
[ 2003.07.26 15:46:15 ] dubious > I did as soon as I got to the station and saw waht was going on. Read back a aways.
[ 2003.07.26 15:46:23 ] Protek Xur > go kill or fire upon a npc pirate
[ 2003.07.26 15:46:44 ] Protek Xur > Dubious, i was attacked in Belt VII by Femme Fatal, it's good to give warnings out
[ 2003.07.26 15:47:04 ] Protek Xur > someone volunteered to atack her and i advised them not to because they will be attacked by police as she declared war on me
[ 2003.07.26 15:47:21 ] dubious > If you are at war with her, it would be good on the corp channel.
[ 2003.07.26 15:47:25 ] Happy Man > how do you declare war on just one person please?
[ 2003.07.26 15:47:39 ] Sp1key > ok, next time I wont help a freind...that sad...but true. =(
[ 2003.07.26 15:47:59 ] Talur Lokarn > you can't - you have to declare on the corp
[ 2003.07.26 15:48:05 ] Happy Man > cool
[ 2003.07.26 15:48:07 ] Happy Man > how?
[ 2003.07.26 15:48:16 ] dubious > And I believe the other corp has to accept.
[ 2003.07.26 15:48:21 ] Protek Xur > well the attack seemed random so i gave out a warning
[ 2003.07.26 15:49:02 ] dubious > So Femme in this one person corp is at war with Taggert - 214 members, and she is still flying?
[ 2003.07.26 15:49:11 ] Protek Xur > yes
[ 2003.07.26 15:49:31 ] Protek Xur > it's no matter
[ 2003.07.26 15:54:21 ] Protek Xur > what goes around comes around
[ 2003.07.26 15:58:44 ] Protek Xur > Hi Elith, thanks for comign over
[ 2003.07.26 15:59:01 ] Protek Xur > wots wrong with these people?
[ 2003.07.26 15:59:06 ] Protek Xur > bloody idiots everywhere
[ 2003.07.26 15:59:25 ] Roark > spineless. Can't even show their real face. Obvious front corp for other little kids.
[ 2003.07.26 15:59:28 ] Protek Xur > imicus gone again
[ 2003.07.26 16:00:50 ] Furbie > when my corp has a few nice battleships i will hunt down spineless cowards like that
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:17 ] Protek Xur > she's still in Amsen
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:22 ] Femme Fatal > omg
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:24 ] Femme Fatal > it ran
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:25 ] Femme Fatal > ;o
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:33 ] Shintai > haha
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:37 ] Shintai > she RAN
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:37 ] Femme Fatal > naa the apoc ran away :(
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:48 ] Femme Fatal > im crying now
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:56 ] Roark > I ran away because of your gutless tactic
[ 2003.07.26 16:02:58 ] Protek Xur > Femme? why are you attacking TTI?
[ 2003.07.26 16:03:02 ] Roark > are you 12 years old?
[ 2003.07.26 16:03:05 ] Femme Fatal > 11
[ 2003.07.26 16:03:08 ] Femme Fatal > ;)
[ 2003.07.26 16:03:12 ] Shintai > have a cookie and wipe your tears
[ 2003.07.26 16:03:29 ] Femme Fatal > Sure
[ 2003.07.26 16:03:30 ] Roark > They use another battleship to drain cap, which is not considered a hostile act by Concord.
[ 2003.07.26 16:03:30 ] Protek Xur > why attack ships and pods?
[ 2003.07.26 16:04:50 ] Roark > This is a stupid tactic obviously that a) does not work b) completely underhanded and a game exploit.
[ 2003.07.26 16:05:29 ] Roark > Obviously draining cap is a hostile act that should be fired on by Concord.
[ 2003.07.26 16:05:47 ] Protek Xur > i lost about 1.1mill there
[ 2003.07.26 16:05:50 ] Roark > but again, we see enemies of TTI using exploits and other pre-teen tactics to achieve their mindless needs.
[ 2003.07.26 16:06:28 ] Ganja > Well no offense, but, regardless of the tactic.. you still ran? Your in an apoc for christ sakes ;\
[ 2003.07.26 16:06:49 ] thesulei > anyone in an indy want to team up to mine ?
[ 2003.07.26 16:07:19 ] Ganja > I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not apart of this.. I was AFK mining, you can ask Ragnar himself.. me and him are talking on IRC
[ 2003.07.26 16:07:45 ] Roark > Ganja, I had ZERO cap.
[ 2003.07.26 16:07:51 ] Roark > I can't fight with no cap
[ 2003.07.26 16:08:17 ] Ganja > *shrugs* for every poision, there is an antidote
[ 2003.07.26 16:08:39 ] Roark > Yes but I am not allowed to fire on the moron that was draining my cap
[ 2003.07.26 16:08:56 ] Roark > that is too spineless to join a corp we are at war with
[ 2003.07.26 16:09:56 ] Ganja > I dunno what to say.. I just want to see some action.. effects in this game are like 'whoa'
|
Ganja
|
Posted - 2003.07.26 17:15:00 -
[7]
[ 2003.07.26 16:10:00 ] Femme Fatal > Im just trying to make a living off the cookies ppl give me to soothen my disturbed 11 year old soul
[ 2003.07.26 16:11:11 ] Femme Fatal > ;/
[ 2003.07.26 16:11:52 ] Roark > Listen, if you want to attack TTI, be men about it. Don't have battleships in other corps drain my cap. I am clearly not allowed to fire on them. Don't use exploits in game design to wage war. It is really sad.
[ 2003.07.26 16:12:11 ] Femme Fatal > I dont have battleships in other corps...
[ 2003.07.26 16:12:25 ] Talur Lokarn > apart from Coretech's ones of course.
[ 2003.07.26 16:12:35 ] Femme Fatal > Never seen him before o_O
[ 2003.07.26 16:13:10 ] Femme Fatal > Must be a fan
[ 2003.07.26 16:13:15 ] Protek Xur > Femme Fatal what is your point?
[ 2003.07.26 16:13:35 ] thesulei > oi fam naff off
[ 2003.07.26 16:13:59 ] Femme Fatal > What should my point be? I play this game like everyone else does, I try to make money, and there wont always be ppl around like this.. so just kill me then
[ 2003.07.26 16:14:17 ] Protek Xur > if you have one to make? anyway, i think it's Funny that you are soo stupid
[ 2003.07.26 16:14:26 ] Femme Fatal > touche
[ 2003.07.26 16:14:32 ] Roark > I would gladly kill you if you would stop using game exploits with your partners in other corps to tie our hands at fighting back.
[ 2003.07.26 16:14:44 ] Femme Fatal > Ok, promise
[ 2003.07.26 16:14:46 ] Protek Xur > you have a bad name now in a newbie area
[ 2003.07.26 16:14:58 ] Femme Fatal > Ill tell this guy to either join me or get lost
[ 2003.07.26 16:15:06 ] Femme Fatal > Deal?
[ 2003.07.26 16:15:32 ] Femme Fatal > If he doesnt, Ill declare war on him aswell
[ 2003.07.26 16:15:33 ] Protek Xur > in 6 months who knows, a lot of future powerful ships in here
[ 2003.07.26 16:16:02 ] Ganja > I doubt she'll be here for 6 months, just waiting on TTI that is..
[ 2003.07.26 16:17:32 ] Femme Fatal > I would have thought that a corp such as TTI would have more face than this. A freelancing marauder takes a stab at some of their ships and they scream about who knows what.
[ 2003.07.26 16:18:06 ] Femme Fatal > Immature at best
[ 2003.07.26 16:18:11 ] Roark > We are not going to engage an idiot that uses exploits in game design to wage war on us. Be men about it.
[ 2003.07.26 16:18:26 ] Roark > TTI plays this game straight up. Others do not.
[ 2003.07.26 16:18:50 ] Femme Fatal > I dont know Shintai
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:01 ] Femme Fatal > He was just tagging along
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:08 ] Roark > I have 7 Apocalypses in my hangar waiting in case I lose this one. I'm not afraid to fight. I will NOT engage spineless people that just use this exploit.
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:09 ] Femme Fatal > I told you, I would tell him to either join me or get lost
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:12 ] Ganja > There are all types of professions in this game.. can't expect everyone to follow the corporate role?
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:32 ] Roark > Ganja, I expect our enemies not to use exploits.
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:37 ] Femme Fatal > Im not the kind to hide behind other people, but you apparently dont listen
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:49 ] Talur Lokarn > but you could at least expect everyone to not use exploits
[ 2003.07.26 16:19:55 ] Roark > Having a Battleship partner drain my cap, and me unable to fire on that battleship is an exploit.
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:08 ] Femme Fatal > For the slow people...
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:10 ] Femme Fatal > Read up
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:10 ] Protek Xur > Femme...why do you send messages to Newbies saying "Join me or Die!" ?
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:16 ] Protek Xur > your a laughable bully
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:18 ] Femme Fatal > I havent..
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:20 ] Protek Xur > a coward in the utmost
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:41 ] neros > who deos he want to loin?
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:42 ] Femme Fatal > A coward.. yes.. attacking TTI is so cowardly.. I shall seek a better enemy
[ 2003.07.26 16:20:55 ] Protek Xur > i was in aan unamred imicus
[ 2003.07.26 16:21:00 ] Protek Xur > and afk
[ 2003.07.26 16:21:11 ] Roark > Okay good. Go use your exploits on another corp. We won't play like this. If you want to be men about it we will fight you.
[ 2003.07.26 16:21:16 ] Femme Fatal > TTI cant protect their miners?
[ 2003.07.26 16:21:26 ] Femme Fatal > What exploit?
[ 2003.07.26 16:21:31 ] Femme Fatal > Roark.. you got problems reading?
[ 2003.07.26 16:21:42 ] Roark > TTI cannot protect its miners when battleships come by, drain cap, and we cannot fire back in empire space.
[ 2003.07.26 16:21:44 ] Femme Fatal > I said, I wont let it happen again that bystanding battleships interfer in my buisiness
[ 2003.07.26 16:22:01 ] Talur Lokarn > sure it did.
[ 2003.07.26 16:22:01 ] Femme Fatal > He will either join me or get lost
[ 2003.07.26 16:22:04 ] neros > haha
[ 2003.07.26 16:22:11 ] Talur Lokarn > well, he's been following you like a shadwo
[ 2003.07.26 16:22:17 ] Talur Lokarn > shadow even
[ 2003.07.26 16:22:40 ] Sicklan Si
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Ganja
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:15:00 -
[8]
[ 2003.07.26 16:22:40 ] Sicklan Silverblade > i need some monet for my cruiser skill... any body wanna lend me any...?
[ 2003.07.26 16:23:59 ] Roark > It is so obvious you guys are in league. Do you take us for fools? It's obviously been a coordinated attack. You did the same thing to Foxy who was mining in Malkalen. 1) have a battleship go drain cap 2) You open fire . By using the battleship that we are not at war with, we cannot fire back. This is an obvious exploit.
[ 2003.07.26 16:24:15 ] Femme Fatal > Gosh this guy is dense
[ 2003.07.26 16:24:19 ] Femme Fatal > Good day folks
[ 2003.07.26 16:24:41 ] Femme Fatal > Future tense and past are too much for this poor soul
[ 2003.07.26 16:24:50 ] Femme Fatal > Toodaloo
[ 2003.07.26 16:24:55 ] Protek Xur > Anyway...."All newbies...please let me introduce 'Femme Fatal' the one and only bully who can't survive beating anyone else up outside amsen because she uses an exploit to bully newbies and other people.
[ 2003.07.26 16:25:11 ] Femme Fatal > actually leaving amsen.. it reeks of caldari
[ 2003.07.26 16:25:20 ] Protek Xur > bye bye ***** face
[ 2003.07.26 16:25:23 ] Roark > Totally gutless, along with Shianti. So sad.
[ 2003.07.26 16:26:01 ] Roark > Go take some testosterone and learn how to be men. Real men don't use exploits to wage war.
[ 2003.07.26 16:27:21 ] Protek Xur > add to address book and change 'Standing' to Terrible by sliding the white bar to the left
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Ganja
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:20:00 -
[9]
Ok, so.. there were only 2 battleships. One belong to "us" and one belonging to TTI.
TTI had the Apoclypse, while we had the Cap draining Megathron.
I don't feel that this is an exploit, because you can easily use the drain cap abilities to level out with allies, who have more/less capacitor then you, and share the goods.
We are pirates, this is what we do. We are not griefing anyone, so please, lets not start that discussion, shall we?
This is the role I chose, and the role I shall keep. IMO its better then working for a "better goal" in a corporate type coporation/guild/clan/whatever, instead where I can have fun with a bunch of buds, using teamwork to destroy our opponents, and in the same time, earning from it.
It was funny at first when we started taking out the AFK Miners.. (speaking of which, don't cry if we killed you? If you weren't AFK I'm sure you could have ran!)
But when the people started chipping in to help destroy Fem infront of the Asmen station, then getting swatted down like flies.. was just hilarious. I need to take some painkillers my stomach hurts so much from laughing..
Thanks for the laugh.. but lets not forget, this is mearly business.. not pilfering griefers taking advantage of newbies.. Anyone who has the brain to AFK mine, also knows the chances they take. But what about that Apoc.. those things seem to be quite fast.. :)
Ta Ta..
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John Zeppe
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:26:00 -
[10]
I totally agree with Roark about this one. Really lame tactic. |
Roark
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Roark on 26/07/2003 17:33:22
Thanks John Zeppe.
Shintai, we should not have to protect our miners in Concord space from exploits. We do actively protect our miners in our mining operations out of empire space.
Yes the 5 TTI ships that Femme Fatale destroyed were all miners that were killed with this cap-draining exploit. It's hardly an accomplishment to be proud of.
We did have other battleships there. Just because you only saw one does not mean there was only one, Ganja.
Roark - Taggart Transdimensional - www.taggarttd.com |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:32:00 -
[12]
With alittle time, your apocs wont escape when they have no cap and we shoot it with megathrons ;)
Femme just need abit more training.
IsnŠt war fun, when you are so uncoordinated that you canŠt or donŠt protect your assets?
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Femme Fatal
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:34:00 -
[13]
In short amendment.. those TTI ships were AFK mining.. and I didnt need to drain any cap to kill them..
Nothing is safe, or sacred in war.
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Ganja
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:34:00 -
[14]
Funny how if you had more then just your Apoc, they didn't come in to help? hmmm
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:35:00 -
[15]
Wrong Wrong.
No one was killed due to capdraining. They were all scrambled and webbed without chance.
Comment removed, trolling - Wrangler
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Zam Wesell
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:41:00 -
[16]
i'll skip past ganjas ****e and agree it should be classed as a hostile act when not used on corp/gang members.
smart move tho and the drained tti pilot needs demoting
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Mulu Xump
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:54:00 -
[17]
----------------------------------------------
[ 2003.07.26 15:24:01 ] Furbie > gang******her
----------------------------------------------
Furbie. I hope you regret saying that.
-----------------------------------------
Don't jump off the roof dad.
You'll make a hole in the yard.
----------------------------------------- |
Roark
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:55:00 -
[18]
Typical pirates. You guys lie. We have a screenshot of you guys cap draining one of our miners with Shintai's battleship. This was one of our miners in an apocalypse, which also got away, despite the spineless other-corp draining exploit.
I will have GunnyP post that screenshot soon. I don't even know why we take time do deal with lying, exploiting, pirates. I guess it is nice to prove them wrong, even if they won't fight us man-to-man in game.
Roark - Taggart Transdimensional - www.taggarttd.com |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:58:00 -
[19]
So Roark, you say that when a Maller is shooting, webbing and scambling an Indy. The cap draining is the upper hand?
No wonder you canŠt fight or organize.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Shock
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Posted - 2003.07.26 17:58:00 -
[20]
TTI could counter this temporarily threat by creating on of their sub-corps put some fighters in it and declare some wars.
---
soonÖ |
Nerhtal Al'Thali
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:01:00 -
[21]
so femme's corp is at war with tti and she killed tti miners, then shintai appears and uses an offensive module which does not provoke concord and the apocalypse cant do anything about it?
if im right, then that is pretty unfair - there is a reason 1.0 systems are supposed to be safe and you found a way around that - this time
i wouldnt be surprised if CCP fixed it...im sure even YOU can udnerstand that ANY OFFENSIVE module should all provoke the same response from concord... ccp just missed this one...
although out of curiosity how on earth did you manage to drain and keep a apoc drained! those battleships have the beast of all capacitors!!
shame on the apoc...having its huge capacitor drained..you should outdo in cap size any ship in the game :P
"Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play"
Oveur
"First in, last out"
Bridgeburner Motto |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:05:00 -
[22]
Actually - other than taking advantage of your inability to wage war "back at them" - they seem to have done nothing else but use rather good tactics.
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Roark
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:07:00 -
[23]
TTI will NOT counter this by doing the same thing as the corps that attack us. We will not make other sub corps so that we can declare more wars then fight in the shadows. It is clear that these are spineless attackers, using backhanded exploits and tactics, and once we declare war on them with one corp, they will just make another corp and it will be an endless cycle. It is just another gutless tactic, just like when pirates we engage jump through gates - now it seems corps are jump through other corps to get away.
Roark - Taggart Transdimensional - www.taggarttd.com |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:10:00 -
[24]
Player A: "I just lost a ship to Concord"
Player B: "What?!? What happened???"
Player A: "Dunno. I undocked from the sta..."
Player B: "Ah...That's what did it. Undocking is considered a hostile action" 
Okay, on the neutralizers yah it should be an offensive act. I referring to the mentality that I keep observing in people, especially in this thread. If you make everything a hostile action, you remove any means of peaceful resolutions.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ghen
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:15:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ghen on 26/07/2003 18:17:08
Sounds like a bug/exploit to me, cap draining should be criminal activity and concord should come and attack the offender.. for comparison, just because I can use missiles to give my allies a boost in speed it doesn't mean I should be able to shoot missiles at everyone to help them move faster and still have concord happily waving to me as i pass by.
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Roark
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Roark on 26/07/2003 18:47:41
Edited by: Roark on 26/07/2003 18:47:02
Update. TTI just podded Femme Fatale.
Picture of [url=http://tti.fragland.net/forums/download.php?id=997]corpse[/url].
Roark - Taggart Transdimensional - www.taggarttd.com |
Femme Fatal
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:18:00 -
[27]
See I even died due to Tehels long range weapons smashing me while I sat in warp for who knows how long.. good game, maybe the tables will be turned sometime.
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Zam Wesell
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:23:00 -
[28]
"while I sat in warp"
im surprised you didnt suffer ctd, its abit of a pirates curse that one 
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:25:00 -
[29]
Nice one.."we donŠt cheat" And now you jam me in empire space ;)
Sweet one, you ainŠt better than us. Lets get ready for round 2.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:29:00 -
[30]
Its a grey area, although i do consider this not to be an exploit as such. I do believe it was a little devious and un-called for.
The fact that you created 1 man corp, used a ship that we could not touch (not through our ability, but the game mechanics) and then had the guy in the one man corp shoot at our ships while they were drained using something that is considered a none hostile act is low, and i used to think highly of you Shin, you've some wits about u but that sucked to be frank.
It was nice podding the git, but at the end of hte day i would of had more fun and more appreciation if we had a direct encounter.
-Necro
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Ivanav Soulsteal
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:31:00 -
[31]
Hmm I have never considered cap drainage a hostle act. That is how we used to discurage can theves before the secure cans were out.
first off you can not be farther then 2000 from the person. Secondly it drains slowly its not like you turn it on and the other guys cap is dead. And of course the draner must lock onto the drainee.
So, to beat this.
1. As soon as you see someone approching you move off. You want to do this anyway for optimal range if a sneek attack is iminent.
2. If you are locked, lock back
3. Jam the person targeting you. If you set your ship to orbit 2001km and jam they will never be able to drain you much less target you.
Also there is one other thing you can do. Buts I will save that for later.
I would hate to see the techniques fall into the wrong gands too soon as it seems our nutralize the can thief technique has.
And so it begins.... |
GunnyP
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:32:00 -
[32]
I had a megathron come up and drain the cap on my iteron 4 today. I was then podded by Femme Fatal of (Harrr) corp. Shintai of (Core) was driving the Megathron. Go here to see the screen.
http://tti.fragland.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=43341
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Striker IV
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:33:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Striker IV on 26/07/2003 18:34:13
cap draining should be a hostile act, although once the shots are flying it is a VERY good way to keep your enemies down.
just like the stasis, and webby, they fixed it, soon they can fix this as well.
Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:34:00 -
[34]
Tehel Necrona, just come to 0.0 space where CONCORD donŠt interfere ;d
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Endureth
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:47:00 -
[35]
3) Shintai come over in his Megathron battleship and drained the cap of the Taggart Apocalypse battleship
I imagine that took quite a while. I mean a battleship must have a helluva lot of cap. Why did you just sit there why he drained you?
That just sounds stupid to me.
-E
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Mask
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:49:00 -
[36]
Sorry
I donŠt quite understand why this isnŠt considered an exploit. A player has found a loophole by which they can take advantage of another without fear of reprisal.
But my oppinion isnŠt the one that matters, lets examine the official definition.
CCP definition (as part the exploits vs scams post):
2) An exploit is when someone takes advantage of a bypass in normal game mechanics, allowing him to take advantage of you without you having any means of preventing it whatsoever. When this occurs, we implore you to contact your friendly neighbourhood GM/Support Team as soon as possible, to allow them to investigate the incident, prevent it from happening to anyone else, and possibly reimburse you for your loss.
Good luck TTI
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Ends
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Posted - 2003.07.26 18:52:00 -
[37]
Ok, so you have made war Shin, fine. Hiding your reason for doing so and seeking war based upon poorly functioning game mechanics as opposed to skill is weak. Just lost all respect for you.
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Princess Akmazara
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:03:00 -
[38]
In 1.0 space this is an obvious exploit. I saw someone in local chat today complain they were killed for webbing a can robber. Concord came and destroyed his ship. If webbing is hostile then cap draining sure is. Especially when used like this.
I guess my real question is why doesn't Coretech declare war on TTI of Shintai feels theres no exploit here? Expose all your ship to TTI. I saw the TTI man say they can't declare a war because of a bug but surely you can?
Shintai has a 9.9 security rating I checked yet he is obviously a PK'er by default. Even if he isn't doing the actual shooting he's facilitating it. He is as guilty as Femme Fatal, maybe moreso, because he's using his good standing with Concord to exploit this cap drain deal.
I'm not a big fan of TTI at all they are snooty and arrogant but I think they have a right to be mad.
Princess Akmazara
Amarrian Empire
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:06:00 -
[39]
CoreTech is already in 3 wars ;d
So you canŠt declare more, and Femme is training Social skill and ethic relations so i can. Read the other posts.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
V'cassLord Daeth
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:13:00 -
[40]
This post is pretty funny/retarded! Anyone that gets their bs cap drained, has to be afk mining, as their is no way that you can get cap drained from ships more that 1800-2000m? And it does not drain very quickly. This tactic should only be useful/applicable in a situtation were the prey/enemy is already low in cap. Anyone that is drained from a full cap down to the point of inability for defensive action, deserves what they get! Especially in a bs with uber cap! Especially from a corp that preaches that they are so intelligent and mighty as TTI (extreme sarcasm). Lets stop the whining and afk minning and strip mining in safe space, which is noob space.
Honestly i'm glad ccp hasn't fixed this one, people in large/established corps should have better organization. I find it utterly rediculous that you lost a bs so to this method of attack, shame on you. How pray tell does an enemy drive right up beside you, likely bumped into you, lock onto you, and proceed to drain an entire battleships energy cap down to complete and utter defenselessness??? The only plausible explanations? Not present in game??? Afk people deserve what they get, you aren't playing the game, your sitting there dead in the water, why i ask, shouldn't someone teach you a lesson? Don't be so lazy...and if mining is so boring that you can't watch anymore, find another method of making money with your bs...like umm...killing ncp pirates for cash and melt down the goods. All you need is an indy and a bs to do that efficiently. This is classic carebear speak here guys....And i find it hard to believe that you were jammed and webified, when in your initial post you completely gave no indication of such actions. Stop trying to save face when you obviously got caught whith your pants down. If you lost assets its your own fault, its not like you were ambushed in a noob ship. Empire space should not equal = TTI afk strip mining space.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:18:00 -
[41]
Edited by: j0sephine on 26/07/2003 19:20:07
"TTI will NOT counter this by doing the same thing as the corps that attack us."
Then perhaps rather than focusing your efforts on the "nerf nerf nerf" chants, demand to have the bug with war declarations/ resolutions fixed?
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Roark
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:18:00 -
[42]
V'cass, Comment removed, flaming - Wrangler. Nobody in TTI AFK mines in a battleship. It takes only a few seconds before 8 mining lasers fill the hold.
Nor has anyone in TTI lost a battleship. Not even to this lame cap-draining tactic.
TTI, like pretty much any other corp out there, keeps AFK miners on alternate accounts mining in empire space. If you lose an industrial, big deal. It's worth about 2 loads, so hardly a risk.
Roark - Taggart Transdimensional - www.taggarttd.com |
Femme Fatal
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:22:00 -
[43]
Shesh TTI surpises me, one would think with such 'strict' recruitment that they would atleast filter out the illiterate.
If any had actually read my post you would have had the reason for this entire thing sitting right there. Im sure Shintai wanted to fire just as much as you guys, but -> Social Skill. Anyway..
To those people not quite schooled on ship setups... you can still warp when you have 0 cap, and a mining Industrial does not fit MWDs. Therefore it makes no difference wether you can "proove" that your industrial was drained because I was scrambling him, and had a stasifier equipped (and those two items in his med slots were clearly ABs). Suffice to say he did not have a warpcore equipped either. This means wether a battleship drained him or not is a moot point, but whatever. 
I sadly cannot view the attachment of my sexy self, yet im sure you got me at a wrong angle. I would also like to send my deepest sympathy to the TTI pilot who tried to webifie Shintai after my departure, I hope Concord did not take him apart to badly.
In an end note, I would also like to thank my family and friends for being there for me during this rough time. Especially little bobby who wants to be just like his big sister when he's all grown up....
Toodaloo
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Reddari
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:35:00 -
[44]
There are different cap modules... one is for DRAINING cap from another ship.. clearly an offensive weapon
Then we have other modules who TRANSFER cap to targeted ship.. this is clearly a friendly weapon!
How can you say that cap draining could be done in a friendly manner...
-----------------------
DROP - we didn't cut it
----------------------- |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:42:00 -
[45]
"one is for DRAINING cap from another ship.. clearly an offensive weapon"
Not necessarily; note it can be equally well used to merely 'stun' the aggressor leaving them with no resources to attack. This would make it just a handy mean of defense, wouldn't it?..
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var'ulfur
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:47:00 -
[46]
cowards are all the same they hid behind words after the dirty deed is done.BUT this tactic should only work ounce. and you as a corp must remeber that a pirate the dirty cowards they are will only hit targets that are the least protected. i sugest you get a security guy that knows better tactics. good hunting
wolf |
Dagny
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Posted - 2003.07.26 19:52:00 -
[47]
"Not necessarily; note it can be equally well used to merely 'stun' the aggressor leaving them with no resources to attack. This would make it just a handy mean of defense, wouldn't it?.."
Funny that, if you do attack someone they are free to defend themselves. Thus it is not an offensive action per say. However, doing the offensive initial action using this, should not be considered defense. And if attack is the best defense, then it should be marked as an attack.
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V'cassLord Daeth
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Posted - 2003.07.26 20:03:00 -
[48]
Edited by: V'cassLord Daeth on 26/07/2003 20:16:33
Edited by: V'cassLord Daeth on 26/07/2003 20:13:02
who's the idiot, the person that uses a lame tactic, or the one who gets sucked into it....i know i've never let someone bump into me and drain my cap...nor have i heard of it happening to anyone else..before this. lol  Hard to believe, "you were all there" when a leech came along and slowly, so pitifully slowly drains down your cap....not really dangerous as, you can warp out as soon as it starts, and as long as you don't fire nothing can happen. Furthemore, while in empire space the little leech can't fire on you either. If he does, concord will insta kill him, and within minutes you can fix it with your med/heavy armour and hull repair at the next station, which is not far in empire space. This is not a high priority issue, i wouldn't expect a fix on this one for a very long time.
However I agree this is a lame tactic, mostly its lame however, because it should be nearly impossible to ever pull it off in a manner that causes any real strategic gains for the perpatrator. What is truly lame is that it caused any problems at all. It seems that this incident is more a "pain in the ass" than anything. Its rather of humourus, someone keeps coming along wherever you go, draining your cap, like miserable little mosquitos, and you can't even slap them back, save the gods come and stike you down. However, this is only minor annoyance at best, i do not see this as a major problem in the game. The easy fix is to warp to another system/droyd field. Of course you will say, why should i have to... its an offensive action! Possibly/probably, but all he is really doing is making it impossible to mine,(in that particular place and sec level.) I think this tactic was employed more as a joke, to see if you'd blow yourself up by shooting back, than anything truly malevoloent!!!
Another thing is that if eveyone hadn't whined so much about making empire space, riskless space, you would have no problem dealing with this problem now. Of course you could also argue, that cpp, should be more thourough when they implement changes, you may be right, but the current role of concord in game was never a meant to be so stongarmish, players where intended to be more organized and proactive against offensive players. however concord in its present state likely won't remain for long, now that most people realize how greatly it dirupts the game dynamics.
Finally, lets get serious! If nothing really happened, and you got out just fine? Whats the big deal? It's one thing to post a warning to fellow players, but this was, "cry exploit", And this module isn't always used as a weapon, it can also be used as a way to gain energy from your fellow members. Hence, the close proximity of useage. Only solution would be make it recognized as an offensive tactic when not used on corp or gang members.
I wonder if the "energy neutralizer", which functions at 12,000m(instead of <2000m), can be used in empire space. This one is easily a black and white issue as its only purpose is offensive. A little nicer too, as you can use it at a range, close to optimal for weapons turrents.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.26 20:10:00 -
[49]
"However, doing the offensive initial action using this, should not be considered defense. And if attack is the best defense, then it should be marked as an attack."
The somewhat tricky part about the energy neutralizers in question is, activating them drains the cap of both the target and the ship using it in comparable amounts (unless one is using the NPC modules afaik)
And i still can't help but find the root of the problem being the bug with how the war declarations are handled, not this cap drain not being a crime thing. Wouldn't it do the game much more good if you chose to insist on having the really serious issues fixed first?..
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eriq
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Posted - 2003.07.26 20:45:00 -
[50]
i think that regardless whether two corps are at war legally or not 1.0 space should mean that concord rips you a new one if you attack someone. the rules should not change.
also, if you are draining the cap of another ship it is an offensive move and the same rules that apply to targeting and webifying should apply.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.07.26 21:08:00 -
[51]
yup i have to agree, this is lame and too bad CCP didnt see this before, pretty much any thing that you do to another ship that harms them in anyway should be same as attacking them.
I do not see why CCP doesnt see this as being that simple.
and ya it is lame using other ppl to attack that are not at war with and using this "exploit" and it clearly is, very big advantage that should not be there in the first place because of a game flaw.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Quantum Gopher
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Posted - 2003.07.26 21:19:00 -
[52]
I agree with the aspect of capacitor draining of another ship as being an agressive act. It causes a loss to the other ship, just as a webifier causes a loss of velocity and a scrambler causes a loss of warp capability. Capacitor draining causes a loss of any function that depends on sufficient power. If a simple cargo scan is considered hostile, surely causing a loss of power would be too..?
Draining the cap of a ship heavily engaged in fighting npc pirates, thereby allowing the pirates to kill that ship would be a good example of a grief tactic utilizing the cap drain function.
Q. Gopher
__________
I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!! |
Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.26 21:51:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Intruders on 26/07/2003 21:54:11
Energy drain is not considered an attack? wow!
Maybe there is some window of opportunity for some chaos to be caused before they fix this.
I suggest they shouldnt.. muhehe
>:
The guy that was attacked wasnt the same one who posted that corp. wars can make piracy look like a walk in the park and that he is CEO at such a corp? Then he goes out whining about someone drained his energy?
Something is wrong here.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.26 21:51:00 -
[54]
Warp jamming and webifying are considered a hostile act so it makes sense that cap draining should be too.
I preferred it when webifying and warp jamming weren't hostile acts, anyway.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 21:54:00 -
[55]
Remember ECM is not hostile either ;)
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.26 21:57:00 -
[56]
So you can actually counter an energy drain attack or a webify for rendering the target unable to lock you right?
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.26 22:02:00 -
[57]
Right, unless the the other side got ECCM pods.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.26 22:06:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 26/07/2003 22:11:54
Electronic Counter Measures and Cap Draining fall into the grey area between hostility and defense.
You cannot directly destroy a ship with ECM or Cap Draining but they can be used to allow a ship to be damaged more easily.
Perhaps more emphasis should be made on who targets who first.
P.S: If TTI are at war with 3 corps but those wars aren't active why don't they surrender the useless wars so they can wage war on who they like?
Is it a maximum limit of 3 wars, regardless of whoever else declares war upon you?
Possible get-out clause for chicken corps.......
P.P.S: I do not conconde any pirate activity (except for the real terms of making the game more immersive) but TTI come across as such arrogant tossers I can't blame Femme Fatale for seeking to destroy them just because they're the biggest.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.07.26 22:08:00 -
[59]
I would tend to see cap draining as an offensive action for sure, and if it was used I'd say that this comes close to being an exploit. Also I can't really see why wars aren't reciprocal - 3 war limit or not.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Femme Fatal
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Posted - 2003.07.26 22:19:00 -
[60]
I actually also think that cap draining fall under the same category as stasifying and scrambling (and ECM)(which was used against Shintai by TTI)
Yet if they should be taken out from 0.0 is another issue. But yes, it should be all or nothing.
For those screaming exploit, it isnt one, and no I dont plan on using this in the future, it was just a temporary.. arrangement.
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var'ulfur
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Posted - 2003.07.26 22:55:00 -
[61]
  the bad thing femme is your marked now. you know when you lay with dogs dont be mad if you get fleas
wolf
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
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Talur Lokarn
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Posted - 2003.07.26 23:30:00 -
[62]
The difference though Femme Fatal, is that the person that webified Shintai knew that the cops were going to show up, because it was changed from "non agressive" to "agressive" action...which CCP didn't do with the draining. God knows why.
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.26 23:33:00 -
[63]
Instead of terming defence measures illegal like webify or cap drain, or even cap drain and adding it to your own ship, they should produce counter modules, which in this case some of them are already in game, from preventing someone to target you, as far as it concenrs me they just should add one more to prevent ore thefts, and even introduce a backup ship as the baclkbird only with 1 or 2 more slots to be an escort for miners, or just add a skill that can increase your ECM ECCM slots in any ship to 1 or 2 accordingly, and that would be it.
No punishemnt for ore thieves, and legal pirates, just countermeasures, i know that would suck for freelances since I am one, but at least with the money I make I can afford escorts everywhere.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.26 23:38:00 -
[64]
Miners already have an ECM/ECCM ship - it's called a Badger Mk II.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.07.27 00:59:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 27/07/2003 01:01:14
**Quack Quack Quack....
Is it because its 1:55am here that i'm falling asleep? Or is it down to the nonesense i'm reading.
Sorry you guys are beyond me, don't even attempt to come across as inoccent here, you sent the first blow and it was below the belt, i won't shed any respect for you as opponents, even if you do gain yourself a victory or two. If you wanted to fight us then sure, go right ahead but gods sake at least do it with some dignity.
Until Next Time.
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PornStarr
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Posted - 2003.07.27 08:35:00 -
[66]
Edited by: ****Starr on 27/07/2003 08:45:06
One question. My apocalypse alone without Cap adding modules has 3900 cap. How the hell did he manage to drain 3900 cap from you? What were you doing actually? Just sitting there crying in local as he drained 10 cap from you per 45 seconds using a Nosferatu??
Edit: Had to add the laughing smile.
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Muffin Man
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Posted - 2003.07.27 11:13:00 -
[67]
I'll throw my two penneth in...
I see both point of the argument (looking strictly from the outside here).
TTI's valid point is - Draining a ships capacitor that is not in your corp or gang should be seen as a hostile act, period, needs sorting by CCP ASAP.
Femme Fatal's argument - With the exception of the draining tactic (which is quite ingenius yet IS an exploit which is CCP's fault not yours) there is nothing wrong with anything you've done, as you state, it's not unfair to start a war with a 300 strong corp.
My advice to TTI, work on your BS's EW....I learnt this lesson well, even the best Battleships aint worth anything if they cant target you, at present I can jam any ship I see, and I can avoid being jammed by any one ship (a combo of ships kitted for jamming is different).
AS for the exploit I hope they work it out soon, nothing worse than people being able to use Concord as a shield.
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j0rt
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Posted - 2003.07.27 11:24:00 -
[68]
Hehe interesting perhaps not so much of an exploit, I actually think its intuitive of them. All games have bugs and ways of getting around things, knowing the game better than anyone else gives you a big advantage. I think you should take it on the chin Taggart, you make yourselves a target by parading yourself around like some sort of super power...troll me
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.27 11:27:00 -
[69]
****Starr,
There are much much better cap draining modules than Nosferatu 1's.
Unstable Power 1's are the best I've seen (20MW cost for 25MW drain) and Shintai may have had 8 of them equipped.
Still, you have to wonder whether the b-ship fly was AFK when Shintai started draining.......
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Mark A
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Posted - 2003.07.27 12:53:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Mark A on 27/07/2003 13:06:52
Edited by: Mark A on 27/07/2003 13:00:41
Edited by: Mark A on 27/07/2003 12:54:01
We did use an array of EW gear against Shintai's Megathron (using 3 cruisers), just to get the message across. While he wasn't going to open fire near a jumpgate in empire space, I doubt he could have locked his own hood ornament by the time we were done.
Yes, the webify was a bit over-enthusiastic, but I guess served to demonstrate that we had a bunch of other modules not yet in play, and if he hadn't been in empire space we would have had him gagged & snagged until the other battleship jumped in to waste him.
I guess if I were a politician I'd remind people that TTI's "don't f**k with us and we won't f**k with you" policy is still very much in effect. However I'm a combat pilot and personally I'm hoping there are more laser-brains like Femme Fatality out there so we can add more popsicles to our trophy cabinet.
*edit* Here's the link in case you missed it: http://tti.fragland.net/forums/download.php?id=997
*edit* TTI members can read a more detailed op report on the Mulligan Defense forum.
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