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Timothia	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:21:00 - [1] Has anyone else noticed that since the last big patch the amount of pirates has increased massively? I think its cos of the gate changes that have been made, it is now very hard to travel to a lot of systems without going trough a 0.4 system or without doing 22jumps instead of 6. This is ruining the game for a lot of people cos no-one wants to spent that much time getting somewhere. I think CCP should have a rethink about the system changes
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:23:00 - [2] its just that lots of pirates came back to empire Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
rig0r	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:31:00 - [3] I like it. Makes empire much more interesting www.eve-killboard.net
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:32:00 - [4] Originally by: Nafri its just that lots of pirates came back to empire So the patch DID suck. It was supposed to be designed to push people out into 0.0; it's pulling them back in instead. ____________________________________ I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked.
Timothia	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:32:00 - [5] Edited by: Timothia on 08/09/2005 10:32:25 Originally by: rig0r I like it. Makes empire much more interesting you are in a merc corp, of course you do
Timothia	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr So the patch DID suck. It was supposed to be designed to push people out into 0.0; it's pulling them back in instead. My point entirely CCP please sort this out
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Timothia Originally by: Baldour Ngarr So the patch DID suck. It was supposed to be designed to push people out into 0.0; it's pulling them back in instead. My point entirely CCP please sort this out No it wasn't. You were saying empire now sucks because of travelling times are longer. He's saying something different entirely. The only people who hate the NWO are the people who think easier + quicker = fun. _________ I'm going to kill you in the face!
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:40:00 - [8] Nafri is right - pirates were nerfed. Some quitted, some went to 0.0, sone joined alliances. Now that empire is not a nearly 100% safe space anymore, we come back. To be true: i don¦t see the benefit of having a safe empire. Pirates are a counterbalance to really rich economic players that have billions of ISK. These players have to hire escorts (pay other poorer PVPers) or pay tollings (pay poorer pirates). However - these players need to loose ISK. They were able and allowed to make ISK for 2 years at absolutly no risk in empire and now it¦s time to introduce "the real EVE" to them. Safety has a price...they have to hire pirate hunters or escort pilots if they want to enter more profitable low sec. They deserve to get ganked if they don¦t interact with other players in a massive multiplayer game. Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire.
Timothia	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:41:00 - [9] No what i'm saying is empire isn't meant for pvp, 0.0 is. So pirates who want to kill people can do it out there. The problem is they are just too chicken, they sit out of range of gates sniping people with their ship directed towards warp and their finger on the chicken switch.
Timothia	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Lifewire To be true: i don¦t see the benefit of having a safe empire. Pirates are a counterbalance to really rich economic players that have billions of ISK. These players have to hire escorts (pay other poorer PVPers) or pay tollings (pay poorer pirates). However - these players need to loose ISK. They were able and allowed to make ISK for 2 years at absolutly no risk in empire and now it¦s time to introduce "the real EVE" to them. Safety has a price...they have to hire pirate hunters or escort pilots if they want to enter more profitable low sec. They deserve to get ganked if they don¦t interact with other players in a massive multiplayer game. What about corp and players that are newer and don't have the finances or firepower to fight back?
Jonathan Davis	Posted - 2005.09.08 10:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Timothia No what i'm saying is empire isn't meant for pvp, 0.0 is. So pirates who want to kill people can do it out there. The problem is they are just too chicken, they sit out of range of gates sniping people with their ship directed towards warp and their finger on the chicken switch. Where did you read that? Who told you? Nowhere and noone. Eve is a PvP game, (note: that doesnt just mean combat), expecting to not ever having to indulge in PvP, forced or not, in such a game is just blatent foolishness imo. How long have you been playing? as you seem to have a very limited experience of pirates, probably from the one time you were ganked by a sniper camp.
Layrex	Posted - 2005.09.08 11:02:00 - [12] Whenever I do go to empire, and when I have to make a trip for whatever reason, it's so rare that I run into gatecamps. The ratio of gatecamps to low sec gates must be tiny. Or i'm just lucky. ------------------------------
Unbeleever	Posted - 2005.09.08 11:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Timothia Originally by: Lifewire To be true: i don¦t see the benefit of having a safe empire. Pirates are a counterbalance to really rich economic players that have billions of ISK. These players have to hire escorts (pay other poorer PVPers) or pay tollings (pay poorer pirates). However - these players need to loose ISK. They were able and allowed to make ISK for 2 years at absolutly no risk in empire and now it¦s time to introduce "the real EVE" to them. Safety has a price...they have to hire pirate hunters or escort pilots if they want to enter more profitable low sec. They deserve to get ganked if they don¦t interact with other players in a massive multiplayer game. What about corp and players that are newer and don't have the finances or firepower to fight back? Lifewire is pretty much spot on and if your corp/you are to weak to defend yourself in low sec empire staqy out till you can. Im not being mean but it has been said 1000 times before, I personnaly dont snipe but I hunt in low sec and 0.0. But the tools are there for you to survive in this game it aint WOW. Stay in empire till you are ready to venture out, the patch was not intended to allow noobs free passage to low sec space, or less dangerous passage to low sec, just more ways in thats all. For me... Group therapy is a 30 pack of BEER!! Then all of the voices are satisfied.
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.09.08 11:50:00 - [14] Quote: What about corp and players that are newer and don't have the finances or firepower to fight back? First of all you dont need a BS to kill a pirate battleship at a 0.4 gate. If its tanking the sentry guns this BS is already in big trouble by nature of sentry guns. All you need is a frig or cruiser to hold him warpsrambled. Never forget: sentry guns hurt nearly like 2 BS. This means a tanker is under heavy fire! He wont tank forever! A frig with a warpsrambler can easily be the end! If the pirate is a sniper, you also dont need a BS to kill him. The key would be to get close to him since snipers are very very weak in close combat. A Thorax or an Enyo could easily finish a lonely sniper or at least make him warp away. So you see: all you need to counter pirates is to grow a pair of balls and attack them. You shouldnt forget that pirates will probably have good items fitted - they risk maybe more than 100 mil ISK camping a gate. If you ome along in a Thorax you risk 7-8 mil ISK, while your chances to win vs a pirate are good to very good. Now lets talk about pirate groups. A small weak new corp wont be able to handle those professional farmers. Contact professional piratehunters like Celestial Apocalypse or Cataclysm Enterprises. They will demand cash. But they are also happy if they can help new players, since they love to roleplay the "good guys". If you dont get help you can also try to make deals with the pirates. The key is: interact! It¦s a massive multiplayergame! Ships with squares are real human and no stupid NPCs. Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire.
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Lifewire Quote: What about corp and players that are newer and don't have the finances or firepower to fight back? First of all you dont need a BS to kill a pirate battleship at a 0.4 gate. If its tanking the sentry guns this BS is already in big trouble by nature of sentry guns. All you need is a frig or cruiser to hold him warpsrambled. Never forget: sentry guns hurt nearly like 2 BS. This means a tanker is under heavy fire! He wont tank forever! A frig with a warpsrambler can easily be the end! If the pirate is a sniper, you also dont need a BS to kill him. The key would be to get close to him since snipers are very very weak in close combat. A Thorax or an Enyo could easily finish a lonely sniper or at least make him warp away. So you see: all you need to counter pirates is to grow a pair of balls and attack them. You shouldnt forget that pirates will probably have good items fitted - they risk maybe more than 100 mil ISK camping a gate. If you ome along in a Thorax you risk 7-8 mil ISK, while your chances to win vs a pirate are good to very good. Now lets talk about pirate groups. A small weak new corp wont be able to handle those professional farmers. Contact professional piratehunters like Celestial Apocalypse or Cataclysm Enterprises. They will demand cash. But they are also happy if they can help new players, since they love to roleplay the "good guys". If you dont get help you can also try to make deals with the pirates. The key is: interact! It¦s a massive multiplayergame! Ships with squares are real human and no stupid NPCs. Uhhh, how many times have you seen a non pvp setup equipped WITH a warpscrambler? Most of the times there isn`t enough space to, also equip defencive modules. Maybe on bs`s there is but then not everyone flies them
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:07:00 - [16] Quote: If the pirate is a sniper, you also dont need a BS to kill him. The key would be to get close to him since snipers are very very weak in close combat. A Thorax or an Enyo could easily finish a lonely sniper or at least make him warp away. You're joking right? What difference does it make? Snipers have safespots, and as soon as you leave, they'll be back. Even if you survive the 200km run through the fire you're taking, they'll just jump out, or finish you off with drones. About all you can do is use cloaker tactics, maybe a group with a covert-ops in the lead. But that doesn't even matter, since most of the time they're popping low-wealth and low-skill players who don't stand a chance. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Tyto	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Timothia No what i'm saying is empire isn't meant for pvp, 0.0 is. Ohhhhhhh! So all that 0.9 - 0.1 description doesn't actually mean anything it's just window dressing! So what you're saying is we have "safe" space and "scary" space. 0.1 to 1.0 is "safe" space. WRONG! Why do you think you get a warning when you leave 0.5? Pirates make my life difficult, but if CCP ever took theam out I'd be upset. It's a career choice. Spend some of your profit on some escorts, or a scout; get a gang of mercs together and pay them to remove the pirates, all those things add more to the game. You want to remove things. Some folks would remove everything from this game that makes it fun. If you want a "safe" business sim, go and play Railroad Tycoon. /rant off "Dulce Bellum Inexpertis"
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:16:00 - [18] Quote: Uhhh, how many times have you seen a non pvp setup equipped WITH a warpscrambler? Most of the times there isn`t enough space to, also equip defencive modules. Maybe on bs`s there is but then not everyone flies them I saw a lot of PVP-setups without warpscramblers - for example pure ganksetups that kill before people warp. What you want to say is: a victim is not prepared, while the pirate is. Prepare yourself then! The pirate is under heavy fire at a gate. If he snipes he is weak in close combat. How much help do you need to be able to fight him??? Should sentry guns be stronger, should they also jam the pirate or simply instakill him him or what? The pirateship already fights with an extreme handicap while sentry guns put heavy fire on it. How much more handicap pirates should get? How about totally removing pirates from game? Would this be enough??? Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire.
H20L	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:18:00 - [19] Edited by: H20L on 08/09/2005 12:19:03 i have to admit that since the patch and the gate changes i have seen more player rats around, but many of them are coming back for stock or something most proberly.. i have ran into 1 gate sniper but i gave him what for and he legged it and left me alone whilst i was in my BC.. but they do pick on memebers with no isk or hardly any or smaller ships as it's easy pickings.. ive been podded by rats 5+ times ive lost alot of throax's due to going to ammar space and having to fly through 0.4 and 0.3 just to get cheaper parts.. but paying less usually theres a reason such as pod area's so i think ill stay out in the safe zones.. it was 13 jumps from my home in oursulaert to place in ammar now its 22 [this could be down to i ma have set auto pilot up wrong etc] also a way to combat PVP rats is to use and buy the Insta gate Bookmarks it works wonders.. as by time they've startgetted u your already jumping H20L Fly safe everyone
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:23:00 - [20] sorry to burst youre bubble on apocolypse enterprises but they are now pirates themselves so take that name off the list. But even carry a warp scrambler on yorue industrial - if youre near sentry guns u may stand a chance of lcoking em in.
Drexciyian	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Nafri its just that lots of pirates came back to empire So the patch DID suck. It was supposed to be designed to push people out into 0.0; it's pulling them back in instead. nope, if theirs pirates in empire it gives people less excuse to avoid 0.0, besides i think alliances make it hard for the average empire player to go out into 0.0 than pirates anyways
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:28:00 - [22] Quote: sorry to burst youre bubble on apocolypse enterprises but they are now pirates themselves so take that name off the list. Its: Celestial Apocalypse Cataclism Enterprises Both corps are know pirate hunters and far far away from beeing pirates. Quote: But even carry a warp scrambler on yorue industrial - if youre near sentry guns u may stand a chance of lcoking em in. Nah...in an industrial you will simply die since you need ages to lock...i talk of taking revenge here, payback! You can come back in a Thorax and try to payback! Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:29:00 - [23] Yes, pirating has increased. It's awesome \m/,! I was blown to smitherines yesterday on my way home, it was pretty cool.
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.08 12:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Lifewire Edited by: Lifewire on 08/09/2005 12:21:10 Quote: Uhhh, how many times have you seen a non pvp setup equipped WITH a warpscrambler? Most of the times there isn`t enough space to, also equip defencive modules. Maybe on bs`s there is but then not everyone flies them I saw a lot of PVP-setups without warpscramblers - for example pure ganksetups that kill before people warp. What you want to say is: a victim is not prepared, while the pirate is. Prepare yourself then! The pirate is under heavy fire at a gate. If he snipes he is weak in close combat. How much help do you need to be able to fight him??? Should sentry guns be stronger, should they also jam the pirate or simply instakill him him or what? The pirateship already fights with an extreme handicap while sentry guns put heavy fire on it. How much more handicap pirates should get? How about totally removing pirates from game? Would this be enough??? As you say a victum is unprepared, basically yes, but they are only prepared in there minds cause they know there is always a chance. I have nothing against gatecamping, only that they are an annoyance, also they can be a REAL pain when they are 2 EVE years old and you are 3 EVE months old. Thing is, tec I cruisers (not frigs), are shot to pieces rather easy in PvP. I can tell first hand. So if was to fly a tec I cruiser to 0.3 to do some ratting and the gate was being camped I could be in a problem becuase my setup wouldn`t allow countermeaseure without sacrificing a good setup against the thing I came to do in the first place (ratting). And I think that also to do with game balance, how do you balance that, considering you go to 0.4/0.3 by yourself? You have a fair point about the centries, they help a lot, they do not need changing in my view. The problem is however: how do you balance a game, which allows piracy and where a real (big) gap is between veterans and "newer" (not talking real newbies) players skill, ship and equipment wise, when there becommes an unbalance between those two?
Danks	Posted - 2005.09.08 13:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Timothia No what i'm saying is empire isn't meant for pvp, 0.0 is. Wow, now that's gotta be one of the funniest things I've read on the forums in a while
Del Imbrhir	Posted - 2005.09.08 14:04:00 - [26] Actually, one point I find very interesting has been raised: There is 2 kinds of system: The 0.5 and above system (safe - if we exclude the lame npc pirates) the below O.5 system (unsafe because of 3 years old experienced pirate characters that makes the 0.5 as unsafe as 0.1 system for most other players) The idea that was proposed in the "gate campers" thread, that is having navy fleet ships randomly patrolling those areas could be a way of enhancing the gradual "unsafety"... The more unsafe a system would be, the less often a patrol would occur, with no patrol at all in 0.0. My 2 ISCents... Best regards, Del Imbrhir "Rebellion is the slave's nobelty."
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.09.08 14:17:00 - [27] Edited by: Lifewire on 08/09/2005 14:18:44 Quote: As you say a victum is unprepared, basically yes, but they are only prepared in there minds cause they know there is always a chance. I have nothing against gatecamping, only that they are an annoyance, also they can be a REAL pain when they are 2 EVE years old and you are 3 EVE months old. Thing is, tec I cruisers (not frigs), are shot to pieces rather easy in PvP. I can tell first hand. So if was to fly a tec I cruiser to 0.3 to do some ratting and the gate was being camped I could be in a problem becuase my setup wouldn`t allow countermeaseure without sacrificing a good setup against the thing I came to do in the first place (ratting). And I think that also to do with game balance, how do you balance that, considering you go to 0.4/0.3 by yourself? You have a fair point about the centries, they help a lot, they do not need changing in my view. The problem is however: how do you balance a game, which allows piracy and where a real (big) gap is between veterans and "newer" (not talking real newbies) players skill, ship and equipment wise, when there becommes an unbalance between those two? Beeing wasted at a gate makes you learn EVE. Everything in EVE can be countered....except the pure economic players that play EVE untouchable to sell ISK on Ebay. A cruiser is a powerfull ship. I know players that destroyed more battleships flying a cruiser than sitting in a battleships themselves. The key is to use the bad tracking of battleship-sized guns to your advantadge. If you just unlcoak at a gate and align in the direction of a Sniper-pirate-BS you shouldnt wonder about beeing hit very hard. But thats simply what 99% of the EVE players would do. Why should we pirates be your mentors and tell you how you would survive a sniper attack easily and even more: how you can totally defeat a pirate? What i can say is that a cruiser is a powerfull weapon...see Chode Rizoum here for example attacking a BS and a frig alone in a Thorax: Trax vs BS So, just admit: it¦s in yourself! Grow some balls and attack, learn even if you loose you gain experience. You cannot expect to win instantly if you fight experienced players. But once you win, you will feel great. Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire.
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.08 14:32:00 - [28] Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 08/09/2005 14:38:00 Originally by: Del Imbrhir Actually, one point I find very interesting has been raised: There is 2 kinds of system: The 0.5 and above system (safe - if we exclude the lame npc pirates) the below O.5 system (unsafe because of 3 years old experienced pirate characters that makes the 0.5 as unsafe as 0.1 system for most other players) The idea that was proposed in the "gate campers" thread, that is having navy fleet ships randomly patrolling those areas could be a way of enhancing the gradual "unsafety"... The more unsafe a system would be, the less often a patrol would occur, with no patrol at all in 0.0. My 2 ISCents... I stand by this idea. It feels more natural to have a gradual transition beteween safe and unsafe in systems, where 0.4 is the beginning of open PvP, then bang safe > unsafe. Though these patrols need to be inpar with PC ships. Originally by: Lifewire So, just admit: it¦s in yourself! Grow some balls and attack, learn even if you loose you gain experience. You cannot expect to win instantly if you fight experienced players. But once you win, you will feel great. Yes it is party within peoples heads. Secondly there is also a real concern, take a look at all the discussions that were taking place in "ships & modules" section about underpowered tec I cruisers + some bc`s. Hence one of the reaseons why CCP started work on the MK2 project.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2005.09.08 14:46:00 - [29] Edited by: Spy4Hire on 08/09/2005 15:12:15 Something I've noticed recently as well... Smartbombs don't work (won't activate) within 5k of a jumpgate. Not sure about the 7.5k versions, but I know mine can't be used within 5k of any gate any where. Have not tried near a station yet. As for snipers How about giving EW modules the same range that snipers enjoy? Make a low slot module that boosts the range of EW modules just like there are mods to boost weapons range? Snipers were never as much a problem prior to the EW nerf. They were there, yes, but there was a counter to them (a single tracking disruptor or targeting damp). Now they have no counterbalance so snipers are like weeds... everywhere. Offer sniping range on EW and the balance will be restored. Either by boosting EW modules themselves, or offering modules (which will affect the ship loading them! Another combat consideration for ship fittings). Current skills at max and flying EW specialized ships still cannot worry a sniper.. and that is completely broken.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2005.09.08 15:10:00 - [30] Edited by: Spy4Hire on 08/09/2005 15:11:16 edit: double post

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