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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
99
   |
Posted - 2013.04.07 13:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:And judging from the miners posting in this thread bounties do make highsec more dangerous. Gank mechanics are made much more profitable by a high bounty. Think about a guy with a billion isk bounty out missioning, if a ganker finds and suicides him the gankers ship is paid for before the loot is scooped, the mission ship loot is all gravy.
If not in a NPC corp. The worst offenders are in NPC corps with some serious negative standings, as there's little recourse to deal with them (can't war dec them for one). Some have bounties in the hundreds of millions, and KB ganks to prove how they got their bounties.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13491
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 13:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:If not in a NPC corp. The worst offenders are in NPC corps with some serious negative standings, as there's little recourse to deal with them (can't war dec them for one). Some have bounties in the hundreds of millions, and KB ganks to prove how they got their bounties. GǪin which case there is an obvious line of recourse to deal with them.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 13:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[]GǪin which case there is an obvious line of recourse to deal with them.
If anyone is willing to bother. 20% payout on trash isn't much of a bounty hunter incentive.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
613
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 14:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Miilla wrote:So why should I be as safe as somebody without a bounty not being wanted and me being wanted say for example by 100 corps, 100 aliances and 10,000 players? Or as equally safe as somebody who is only wanted for 100,000 and 1 player?
Why should I be as equally as safe as them? Good news: you're not. The fact that you have a bounty makes you a more valuable target for attackers to go after than if you didn't have it. Flying more expensive ships becomes even more risky since you start making yourself a free gank, from the hull alone. Bounties offer a motivation to attack, not a means to do so GÇö that's the job of Crimewatch. Higher bounty = higher motivation = higher risk. It's not rocket surgery.
yea.
now just compare bounty for 100billion and 1mil ISK.
Let's say your main ship - Catalyst. Total price is like 5 millions.
The main your job is - suicide ganking miners.
Better bounty == bigger risk you say? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13491
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 14:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:If anyone is willing to bother. 20% payout on trash isn't much of a bounty hunter incentive. That entirely depends on the ship, which means that the bounty-holder needs to adjust his flying to remain safe, which often means he's commonly easier to kill.
And it doesn't change the fact that if they have a KB full of ganks to provide a reason for their bounties, there's plenty of recourse to get back at them. Since the kills are free, a couple of million here and there will start to add up rather quickly.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
566
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 14:57:00 -
[66] - Quote
Huge success. |
Fairren
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Fairren wrote:How exactly are accounts of different players going to be linked?  How would different players be related to how Battle.net links accounts (and for the point of addressing an issue in how to address the bounty payout exploits)?
Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that? |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Fairren wrote:Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that?
Much like it stops 10000001 exploits and abuses in WoW.
Accountability.
Losing one account is, "bah". Losing 10+, hurts.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
842
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
The improvement that should be made is to make killrights salable on contracts as if they were items in addition to what we have already.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Fairren
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Fairren wrote:Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that? Much like it stops 10000001 exploits and abuses in WoW. Accountability.Losing one account is, "bah". Losing 10+, hurts.
And you catch them how? |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
Fairren wrote:And you catch them how?
Couple months back some hacker group discovered (8 years too late) that Blizzard was imprinting screenshots with watermarks with Date/time/server/user ID. It's been surmised that this was done to track photos (NDA violations to private servers).
What you don't know can hurt you.
Fly safe!
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Fairren
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Fairren wrote:And you catch them how? I have no idea so I rambled about WoW some more.
That's how I read it.
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics
CODE.
79
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Fairren wrote:Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that? Much like it stops 10000001 exploits and abuses in WoW. Accountability.Losing one account is, "bah". Losing 10+, hurts.
I think you are confusing something here. Awoxing, corptheft, ganking, bumping, and all those fun "bad" activities are neither exploits or abuses. It's a legit way to play EVE.
You may not have noticed, but we New Order Agents happen to hate exploits and abuses of our game. We tend to target mining bots. There's even a manifesto.
Trying to link character=player is never gonna fly. Some of us understand Eve to be a game, and the whole "consequences for your actions" routine stops right at the character select screen. I can choose to play an evil mean pie-rat, a fluffywambler carebear, a charismatic sov holding CEO...and unless I choose to link them together, each one is it's own entity.
Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
If you care about making EVE better, you'll vote Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:22:00 -
[74] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I think you are confusing something here. Awoxing, corptheft, ganking, bumping, and all those fun "bad" activities are neither exploits or abuses. It's a legit way to play EVE.
Where did you come from with that left field response? Pluto?
Anyone mentioned that stuff?
Read before replying, it helps.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics
CODE.
79
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I think you are confusing something here. Awoxing, corptheft, ganking, bumping, and all those fun "bad" activities are neither exploits or abuses. It's a legit way to play EVE. Where did you come from with that left field response? Pluto? Anyone mentioned that stuff? Read before replying, it helps.
I've read. I see whinging about bounties, complaints about the bad people doing bad things in EVE and how the bounty system doesn't slow them down, then this weirdness about linking accounts.
The conclusion I draw, you mad about bad people doing bad things, and you want CCP to fixit.
If I'm wrong, which has happened on very rare occasions, consider this your mandatory New order threadjack.
Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
If you care about making EVE better, you'll vote Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:45:00 -
[76] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I've read. I see whinging about bounties, complaints about the bad people doing bad things in EVE and how the bounty system doesn't slow them down, then this weirdness about linking accounts.
It's weird if someone wants to evade detection.
It's weird if someone wants to exploit the system.
It's weird for players who share accounts.
Yeah, weird for the wrong reasons.
Bring accountability into the equation, we could have a bounty system that has meaning...and tougher to exploit.
The bounty system was changed due to exploiting the payout. And in effect we have a bounty system that isn't as effective as it could be, as the accountability isn't there. Someone with 10 accounts isn't linked, so account #1 has the bounty, while account #10 is going to pop his own.
We can't have good things because of that. That's what is truly weird.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
613
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:54:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:March rabbit wrote:now just compare bounty for 100billion and 1mil ISK.
Let's say your main ship - Catalyst. Total price is like 5 millions.
The main your job is - suicide ganking miners.
Better bounty == bigger risk you say? Yup. Otherwise, he wouldn't have to manage that risk and could fly around in whatever he wanted. Said ganker is a free kill GÇö the bounty is all profit GÇö and he is now limited to only ever flying single-digit-million ships. He is already at an elevated risk, and flying something more racks it up even further.
you mean bounty somehow changes the fact that you will get attacked by NPC for having bad SS? Or maybe 1 million of bounty you can get by catching and killing it worth any effort?
Once i spend some time trying to catch one suicider. he used station, docked in a pod, undocked to undock bookmark in catalyst, then warp to whatever point and work. After 10-15 minutes i decided that even if i kill him any bounty/loot don't worth wasted time.
So what exactly makes 100billions bounty of this person to increase his risk? To change his "life" (which is 100% is suicide ganking)? |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 17:46:00 -
[78] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:So what exactly makes 100billions bounty of this person to increase his risk? To change his "life" (which is 100% is suicide ganking)?
He'll just go back to do it again. That's what he exists to do.
There's no real incentive to hunt him down, as tomorrow he's busy ganking again.
Now if the bounty system had teeth, he would have to think more than losing a cheap 2m ISK ship, as now there's a risk more than his worthless life.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics
CODE.
80
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:
He'll just go back to do it again. That's what he exists to do.
There's no real incentive to hunt him down, as tomorrow he's busy ganking again.
Now if the bounty system had teeth, he would have to think more than losing a cheap 2m ISK ship, as now there's a risk more than his worthless life.
And, as I said, your "accountability" ends at the login screen. If CCP had wanted it any differently, we'd be limited to single chars with no extra accounts allowed. That's the amazing fun of alts, you can choose to do something new. If you take minimal steps to keep your alts separate, nobody will know.
This is something I've noticed out of a lot of carebears. They tend to think of their toons as "themselves", and assign their own personality and motives. Us gankers (I have the most experience with them) just treat it like a game. Lady Faps is a jackbooted anti-miner thug. My industrial alt is a super nice builder type. Outside of the game, I'm a slightly jaded disabled combat vet studying for a PhD. in nursing.
What I do in EVE has no more bearing on me as a person, then what I do playing any other game. It's a video game
Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
If you care about making EVE better, you'll vote Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
105
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:23:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:And, as I said, your "accountability" ends at the login screen.
I believe even CCP won't agree with that viewpoint. You bet they believe in accountability on their property.
Pull back some there, as that's some extreme views, that isn't reality.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics
CODE.
80
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:42:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:And, as I said, your "accountability" ends at the login screen. I believe even CCP won't agree with that viewpoint. You bet they believe in accountability on their property. Pull back some there, as that's some extreme views, that isn't reality.
We seem to be mixing ideas here. I'm discussing legitimate game mechanics re: accountability. This includes suicide ganking, Awoxing, those bad things. That "accountability" ends at the login screen, when I choose to log in an alternate toon. In other words, the in-game, legitimate, allowed by the ToS/EULA activities of one of my characters has no effect on my others, unless I choose otherwise. EVE has always been that way.
Of course, ToS/EULA breaking activities can, and do have impact on the person themselves behind the keyboard. You are confusing the character(s) you play in EVE with yourself as a person.
I really highly doubt CCP will implement some sort of "security status/bounty" system on the person behind the keyboard.
And, as an addendum, think about the consequences of what you ask for. If CCP did place such an idea in game, forget about logging in an alt to do something when wardecced/targeted.
Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
If you care about making EVE better, you'll vote Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
331
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:39:00 -
[82] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:
Highsec is clearly the main place where bounties are having an effect. Lowsec and null is generally shoot first and don't bother asking questions. Bounties there just boil down to additional isk payouts for kills. Highsec is where it has the most influence, via the killrights and the additional benifits it brings to gankers. I imagined people specializing as bounty hunters, tracking down and killing specific targets. But as it stands, with everyone being bountied to some degree, it seems to benefit the pirates of EvE, simply giving them additional cash for what they've been doing since before the changes.
I'd be interested to hear opinions from gankers, towards this topic. Specifically regarding if they feel it has helped or hindered their profession.
http://themittani.com/features/revisiting-bounty-hunting
Thanks for the link. Seems to confirm my opinion then, that those that are at the top of the bounty hunting scores are there mearly by the luck of their targets. Though considering they all hunt null, they probably don't have much choice regarding locating specific targets of high bounty, but rather rely on targeting ships with high values.
LaserzPewPew said:
"Until last week when a gewn mentioned it, I had no idea I was in the top 10."
Tyler Burbon said:
"I don't find them. They find me."
Nina Hayashi said:
"I camped Fountain." (As in, this is the way she found her targets.)
I'd still be interested to hear opinions from hardcore highsec gankers regarding the bounty changes tho, and if it helps or hinders their gameplay. Also opinions from players that consider themselves to actually be bounty hunters would be good, and how they go about achieving this.
Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13501
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:you mean bounty somehow changes the fact that you will get attacked by NPC for having bad SS? Since the two have nothing to do with each other, no.
Quote:Once i spend some time trying to catch one suicider. he used station, docked in a pod, undocked to undock bookmark in catalyst, then warp to whatever point and work. After 10-15 minutes i decided that even if i kill him any bounty/loot don't worth wasted time. GǪin other words, he had to manage his risk, and having a bounty adds to that risk. If there was no risk in it, he wouldn't have to jump through all those hoops.
Quote:So what exactly makes 100billions bounty of this person to increase his risk? He's likelier to be attacked if he flies something expensive. Again: just because you can manage a risk doesn't mean it doesn't exist (because then there wouldn't be anything to manage to begin with).
Ace Uoweme wrote:There's no real incentive to hunt him down, as tomorrow he's busy ganking again. So what? That just means you can hunt him down again and get paid again. Free, reoccurring money GÇö that's your incentive GÇö and the more you do it, the less able he is to keep doing it again.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
110
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:We seem to be mixing ideas here. I'm discussing legitimate game mechanics re: accountability.
And I was addressing account linking, how/why, and how it can bring accountability (especially in tracking who's who -- devs can anyway as it is), but this can keep the offender really accountable by locking all his accounts if exploiting. A true shot across the bow, with a message of, "Got the DTs yet? Don't do that again."
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Alexa Coates
Federation Navy Assembly Group LLC
353
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 02:37:00 -
[85] - Quote
I don't like the bounty system because everyone and their dog has a bounty now.
Kind of ruins the "argh im a pirate fear me" feel that the massive "WANTED" plastered on your name used to give.
I mean even I amassed a bounty even though I had a 5.1 sec status at the time.
That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. |
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
613
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 03:48:00 -
[86] - Quote
Tippia wrote:March rabbit wrote:you mean bounty somehow changes the fact that you will get attacked by NPC for having bad SS? Since the two have nothing to do with each other, no. Quote:Once i spend some time trying to catch one suicider. he used station, docked in a pod, undocked to undock bookmark in catalyst, then warp to whatever point and work. After 10-15 minutes i decided that even if i kill him any bounty/loot don't worth wasted time. GǪin other words, he had to manage his risk, and having a bounty adds to that risk. If there was no risk in it, he wouldn't have to jump through all those hoops.
i believe you can do better job than you doing now.
Try reread and answer again: which risk adds bounty to ALREADY hunted criminal with SS -10 if he does not use anything outside of empty pod and cheap ship?
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Resurgent Threat
187
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 05:12:00 -
[87] - Quote
20% of estimated loss is not enough to make a big impact, except in the case of blowing up an exhumer or similar ship that has a big bounty on it.
Should be 40-50%.
'... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3901
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 05:22:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:20% of estimated loss is not enough to make a big impact, except in the case of blowing up an exhumer or similar ship that has a big bounty on it.
Should be 40-50%.
While they are considering tweaking the payouts up a little, it's doubtful they will go too much higher. If they did they would rapidly get to the point where they could be exploitable, the difficulty of getting rid of one by self destruction or a buddy is decreased, and the duration the character wears the bounty is decreased.
None of those are desirable outcomes.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 06:56:00 -
[89] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:I don't like the bounty system because everyone and their dog has a bounty now.
Kind of ruins the "argh im a pirate fear me" feel that the massive "WANTED" plastered on your name used to give.
I mean even I amassed a bounty even though I had a 5.1 sec status at the time.
You can sneeze and get a bounty. Bump into a roid and get a bounty. Moon Jita and even the AFK marketeers would stop Minecraft long enough to add to the bounty.
It's pointless.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Calmon Chaomonous
Chaomonous
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 09:25:00 -
[90] - Quote
I'm relatively new to eve and I like the current Bounty System. It creates a lot of fun!
I just wonder what kind of player starts whining because of a 100.000 welcome bounty. Whining players will always fail in eve anyway.
The only thing: "Wanted" should only appear on players which reaches a specific calculated (dynamic) value. Being "wanted" because of 100k is stupid. |
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