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Calexis Atredies
Jazz Associates Azgoths of Kria
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:24:00 -
[211] - Quote
When wormhole space first appeared it was a great haven from the nullsec di*kery that had ruined 0.0 combat (which arguably died with the nano age).
The large coalitions that are forming amongst wormholes is mostly due to ego and carebearing, people unwilling to put their ISK on the line for a fair fight (or trusting the other group to blob them). You are all essentially guilty of stirring the bucket of sh** in one way or another.
Scratch your blue lists, honour a gentleman's agreement in WH to limit yourselfeves to X pilots for a takedown/invasion and have some fun. You would all have to agree to such guidlines ofc, perhaps even as a community "police" those who break said agreement. Write up threads for active invasions on the forums, chat to each other, no reason why there cannot be mutual respect between warring groups. This is essentially the same principals of RvB.
You will be doing yourselves and wormhole space a favour, no longer will you have to worry about being swarmed and you might even get some "good fights". Who cares if you lose a fleet, we are all filthy rich and most of us have more money that we could ever spend on PVP. Of course those who are in it for the money would not be all too fond of this proposal, but honestly speaking, they are whats killing the community and their time will come... |

Hoxothul
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 21:38:00 -
[212] - Quote
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. |

Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1648
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 22:06:00 -
[213] - Quote
Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. you soooo don't get the issue...
|

Hoxothul
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 22:09:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. you soooo don't get the issue...
I do, I was referring to the poster above me. |

Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1648
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 00:05:00 -
[215] - Quote
Hoxothul wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. you soooo don't get the issue... I do, I was referring to the poster above me. no, you dont. there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue. in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist. |

Calexis Atredies
Jazz Associates Azgoths of Kria
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 00:28:00 -
[216] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. you soooo don't get the issue... I do, I was referring to the poster above me. no, you dont. there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue. in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.
We have a winner!
It's reasuring to see that some capsuleers have enough sense to see the situation for what it is, you sir at least have the wit to see through the politcal charade being played before us. *tips hat* Honestly AHARM are not my favourite group, their monopolisation of the C6 wormholes makes me sad, but at least they sit on the fence in this issue. |

Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
677
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 06:22:00 -
[217] - Quote
Calexis Atredies wrote: The large coalitions that are forming amongst wormholes is mostly due to ego and carebearing, people unwilling to put their ISK on the line for a fair fight (or trusting the other group to blob them). You are all essentially guilty of stirring the bucket of sh** in one way or another.
Scratch your blue lists, honour a gentleman's agreement in WH to limit yourselfeves to X pilots for a takedown/invasion and have some fun. You would all have to agree to such guidlines ofc, perhaps even as a community "police" those who break said agreement. Write up threads for active invasions on the forums, chat to each other, no reason why there cannot be mutual respect between warring groups. This is essentially the same principals of RvB.
You will be doing yourselves and wormhole space a favour, no longer will you have to worry about being swarmed and you might even get some "good fights". Who cares if you lose a fleet, we are all filthy rich and most of us have more money that we could ever spend on PVP. Of course those who are in it for the money would not be all too fond of this proposal, but honestly speaking, they are whats killing the community and their time will come...
This post is a huge contradiction IMO.
People don't just become blues on a whim, they do it because they have a mutual respect for each other as a result of diplomatic interaction. This enables them to have these gentlemanly agreements and over time, they naturally become blues during times that call for a combined force. You can't have gentleman agreement without having blues.
I think we are all going around in circles here. In my opinion, it is not down to the players to create some arbitrary rule set to police the actions of wormhole residence. I wouldn't want to live in wormhole space where the wormhole overlords dictate what can and can't happen in wormholes, do you?
I believe it is down to CCP to create more conflict drivers to encourage the big groups to fight each other because they have a vested interest in winning. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |

Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1649
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 06:40:00 -
[218] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:People don't just become blues on a whim, they do it because they have a mutual respect for each other as a result of diplomatic interaction. This is such utter garbage I don't know where to start. Sure, most group wont' temp blue some corps for whatever the reason but generally the way these coalitions work is something like this:
corp a: 'lets go shoot corp b!' corp b: 'oh no, we're being shot!! quick, convo every diplo contact for any corp above 10 members we have in the books and get them to save us!' corp a: 'great, now we're severely outnumbered with zero chance of winning. i know, lets convo every diplo contact for any corp we have in our books!'
there are some exceptions but recently it's been very much like this.
Quote: *tips hat* Honestly AHARM are not my favourite group, their monopolisation of the C6 wormholes makes me sad, but at least they sit on the fence in this issue. i guess i should point out again that I speak for myself and not my corp... also, I find it adorable that people still think aharm monopolizes c6 space. it's too cute :) |

Quinn Corvez
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 07:30:00 -
[219] - Quote
^ Nice theory jack but it doesn't work like that. People join forces with the expectation of getting a big fight or as a favour. There relationship has already be formed by those groups previously having good fights and good diplomatic talked. Many of the big corps share a incestriouse relationship due to being in old corps together such as narwhals.
So althought I feel silly saying this as you should know what you are talking about, in this case I have to say that you are talking our your arse. |

Rengas
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
140
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 07:46:00 -
[220] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:in this case I have to say that you are talking our your arse. Welcome to every thread on every forum on the internet.
Also I have absolutely zero respect for anyone in EVE.
Except Messorooz. |

Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
178
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:47:00 -
[221] - Quote
Calexis Atredies wrote:The large coalitions that are forming amongst wormholes is mostly due to ego and carebearing, people unwilling to put their ISK on the line for a fair fight (or trusting the other group to blob them). You are all essentially guilty of stirring the bucket of sh** in one way or another. Or, y'know, it could be that mutual respect is forming between groups as they get to know one another. My alliance recently flew on a large op with a former "bitter enemy" alliance. Come to find out, they were far from the evil raiders hell-bent on petty rage and griefing. They were actually a great bunch of guys with a good sense of humour, and I'd be happy to fly with them again. I'd be just as happy to shoot them again, and I know they would understand it's not personal; we could go hang out afterward, poke fun at each other, and have a good laugh at it all.
Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. It is the way of W-space.
I'm not sure what some people want ... if you shoot someone, you are forever enemies and may fly together peacefully again, to take everything personally? I'd like to think that people in W-space are a little more mature than the average Nullbear. And besides, if I befriend someone, I want to come to my friend's aid in time of trouble. If my friend acts the idiot, I'll call him an idiot but still help him out. Why should human nature suddenly cease to exist when you cross the threshold to the online world? The negative personality aspects certainly continue, so I should hope the positives would as well. |

Calexis Atredies
Jazz Associates Azgoths of Kria
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:23:00 -
[222] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Calexis Atredies wrote:The large coalitions that are forming amongst wormholes is mostly due to ego and carebearing, people unwilling to put their ISK on the line for a fair fight (or trusting the other group to blob them). You are all essentially guilty of stirring the bucket of sh** in one way or another. Or, y'know, it could be that mutual respect is forming between groups as they get to know one another. My alliance recently flew on a large op with a former "bitter enemy" alliance. Come to find out, they were far from the evil raiders hell-bent on petty rage and griefing. They were actually a great bunch of guys with a good sense of humour, and I'd be happy to fly with them again. I'd be just as happy to shoot them again, and I know they would understand it's not personal; we could go hang out afterward, poke fun at each other, and have a good laugh at it all.
Mutual respect doesn't equate to help out the other side when they bat phone, thats blue standings or a coalition.
I dunno how diplomacy works in SAK, but simply put you fail to understand that by "being brosefs" when "sh*t gets real" you are escalating an engagement which should have been an AD-HOC pvp encounter between two groups.
If group "Loser 1" wants to attack group "Loser 2" and group Loser 1 had 30 ships to group Loser 2's 40, group Loser 1 dont need to bat need to bat phone group "Loser 3" to bring another 30 guys, thats anti-pvp. You now have numeric imbalance that means Loser 2 wont fight because they are unlikely to have a chance of a good fight and are themselves going to attempt to bring in their own brosefs.
Feel free to ask Loser 3 to bring 10 guys if you absolutely must, but don't raise the stakes higher than the chips the other guy already has down on the table. Grow a pair and take a risk of losing, sometimes a close battle lost is alot more fun that a turkey shoot and its definately more fun than blue balls. |

Bane Nucleus
Anomalous Existence Existential Anxiety
420
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 11:32:00 -
[223] - Quote
I enjoy a turkey shoot once in a while to be totally honest.
Alliance CEO, Diplomat, Recruiter |

WarGod
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 08:46:00 -
[224] - Quote
I believe i have solved this problem. I just spend the last 3 hours setting blue everyone who lives in WHs.. (apart from Rengas who is -10 untill that Etana dies). |

G0hme
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
105
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 11:32:00 -
[225] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. you soooo don't get the issue... I do, I was referring to the poster above me. no, you dont. there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue. in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.
"People will blue up when it matters."
Thats the single most insightful comment yet on any EVE related forum.
True story.
What about the scenarios where people blue up when it doesn't matter? Or is the act of setting someone blue equal to the case actually mattering?
I wonder. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 |

Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
269
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 12:21:00 -
[226] - Quote
Old ladies screaming at each other, love this thread. |

Rengas
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
146
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 12:55:00 -
[227] - Quote
WarGod wrote:I believe i have solved this problem. I just spend the last 3 hours setting blue everyone who lives in WHs.. (apart from Rengas who is -10 untill that Etana dies). Don't worry I have Aegis. |

WarGod
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 13:33:00 -
[228] - Quote
Rengas wrote:WarGod wrote:I believe i have solved this problem. I just spend the last 3 hours setting blue everyone who lives in WHs.. (apart from Rengas who is -10 untill that Etana dies). Don't worry I have Aegis.
At the 12:55 mark.
I am not impressed. |

Dr Agropoly
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 13:45:00 -
[229] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. you soooo don't get the issue... I do, I was referring to the poster above me. no, you dont. there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue. in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.
|

QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 22:32:00 -
[230] - Quote
Dr Agropoly wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Hoxothul wrote:You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again. you soooo don't get the issue... I do, I was referring to the poster above me. no, you dont. there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue. in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist. This is not how a perceive things at all. Both when it comes to us and the people we have frequent interaction with we do not give any fucks about who was once blue when we enter e 3-way , we might help any side or just go for the surprise buttseks depending on what we think will give the most enjoyment at the time. I know this is not the case for all corps though and some people just don't know what a fun fight is and just care about a green killboard. Far to many times have we all seen "notable" wormhole corps run away screaming like 14 year old girls when they have even numbers just to come back with 7 guardians and 4 Bhaals to counter our 10 man fleet. All in all it is a sandbox though and even if my word really should be law funnily enough it isn't  You may play the game any way you choose but that doesn't stop me from calling you a flippin ****** and idiot both behind your back and to you face.
Thats all fine and dandy... but to really make sure your enemies are enraged and attack you. You have to make fun of their mothers with a kazahkstan reference in there. Then they will bring the hate. |

Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Polarized.
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 01:15:00 -
[231] - Quote
Since the OP's example was Polarized, I feel I should let him and the community reading this know that there was a recent shift in the command structure of the alliance, and that dealings between others and the alliance will be handled differently.
Preferably with more pew.
Edit: Left out a word. |

Guile SONICBOOM
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 22:34:00 -
[232] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Since the OP's example was Polarized, I feel I should let him and the community reading this know that there was a recent shift in the command structure of the alliance, and that dealings between others and the alliance will be handled differently. Preferably with more pew.  Edit: Left out a word.
And less nullsec. |

Bane Nucleus
Viziam Amarr Empire
422
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 23:32:00 -
[233] - Quote
Less null sec is not the direction wh space is headed. Free Agent |

Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 07:03:00 -
[234] - Quote
Dr Agropoly wrote: This is not how a perceive things at all. Both when it comes to us and the people we have frequent interaction with we do not give any fucks about who was once blue when we enter e 3-way , we might help any side or just go for the surprise buttseks depending on what we think will give the most enjoyment at the time. I know this is not the case for all corps though and some people just don't know what a fun fight is and just care about a green killboard. Far to many times have we all seen "notable" wormhole corps run away screaming like 14 year old girls when they have even numbers just to come back with 7 guardians and 4 Bhaals to counter our 10 man fleet.
Know the feeling. We have 2-3 logis and maybe 6 DPS, and people run home and come back with 6-10 DPS, 4 logis, a Falcon and an ECM Tengu. Like that's going to result in a 'Good Fight' for either side.
|

SojournerRover
Exanimo Inc Unclaimed.
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 12:24:00 -
[235] - Quote
Have you not seen seen the W-Space PVP Etiquette thread?
lol ROVER (REDRUM)
|

JoostSkywalker
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:16:00 -
[236] - Quote
MisterAl tt1 wrote:My 2 isks: People guarding their home are: 1. Motivated 2. Usually have more caps then attackers 3. Can choose the time of battle (preferably to be maximum pain in the butt for the attacker) like these guys did: http://dontshootx.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=152994. Can phone in extra people (I think we all have "sleeping capitals" in our systems) 5. Can change fleet doctrine, if having prepared ships (attackers are limited to what they've brought) 6. Can buttphone The attackers 1. have to be ready for non-friendly hole any time of day 2. Have to be ready to fight any time of day and night 3. Can butthpone for more, if found themselves surprisingly outnumbered And so on. Having this in mind, one corporation/alliance can not evict another of similar size and activity/skill on its own. I take it for granted. So a need arise for extra hands. The question is what is seen as "needed numbers" - different sides of conflict have different understandings for that: attackers understand they need more then defenders have, defenders usually see it unfair. So it goes: one side brings extra depending on what they see fit for the task. The other one starts buttphoning "they've brought more then we have! HALP!" and there it goes... Not that I like that, but history does not ask.
You are neither right or wrong, for everything you said there was an equal opposite.
For instance attackers can decide when they struck, if they strike they will get whcontrol easy and can get all friends and caps in. They can decide how many reinforcements they have at first, cause they wanna make sure they win.
They are the one that infiltrated in some ways to gain knowledge of the opposing party and not the other way around.
At least if we consider that not every large wh entity is filled with spies anyway. |

JoostSkywalker
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:21:00 -
[237] - Quote
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:Dr Agropoly wrote: This is not how a perceive things at all. Both when it comes to us and the people we have frequent interaction with we do not give any fucks about who was once blue when we enter e 3-way , we might help any side or just go for the surprise buttseks depending on what we think will give the most enjoyment at the time. I know this is not the case for all corps though and some people just don't know what a fun fight is and just care about a green killboard. Far to many times have we all seen "notable" wormhole corps run away screaming like 14 year old girls when they have even numbers just to come back with 7 guardians and 4 Bhaals to counter our 10 man fleet.
Know the feeling. We have 2-3 logis and maybe 6 DPS, and people run home and come back with 6-10 DPS, 4 logis, a Falcon and an ECM Tengu. Like that's going to result in a 'Good Fight' for either side.
If you at first start engaging 3 dps and 2 logi with 6 dps and 3 logi it is obvious if they retalliate with 10 dps and 4 logi. At least if they can, meaning they have the amount of people, they have the logistics, they have their corp together.
The whole idea that you think you bring fair fights is already wrong, because thats just your oppinion. And your oppinion is based on you wanting to put the GF in local after you killed someone else his ship. |

Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 22:51:00 -
[238] - Quote
JoostSkywalker wrote: The whole idea that you think you bring fair fights is already wrong, because thats just your oppinion. And your oppinion is based on you wanting to put the GF in local after you killed someone else his ship.
Hardly. If they'd brought those 10 DPS, and 3 logis, and just one ECM boat we'd have tried it on, even outnumbered. If they were in T3s to our T1&T2s and so out-ISKed us by a ton, we'd still have tried it on. But we're not going to try and fight against four logis and two ECM boats because we know for a certainty that they'll break our logo chain and there's no way we'd be able to break the rr from three logis (primarying the 4th, of course). If we'd had a jamming or specialised nueter with us, maybe, but not with just DPS.
We're not afraid to lose, but we're damned if we're going to accept a fight that's a foregone conclusion in which we won't just lose, but won't be able to do a damned thing while we get killed. You see, we don't care if a fight's not fair and against us, but we do want to avoid simply throwing a pile of ISK and a heap of time (getting new ships, getting pilots back into the hole, etc.) down the toilet.
|

Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 15:41:00 -
[239] - Quote
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:JoostSkywalker wrote: The whole idea that you think you bring fair fights is already wrong, because thats just your oppinion. And your oppinion is based on you wanting to put the GF in local after you killed someone else his ship.
Hardly. If they'd brought those 10 DPS, and 3 logis, and just one ECM boat we'd have tried it on, even outnumbered. If they were in T3s to our T1&T2s and so out-ISKed us by a ton, we'd still have tried it on. But we're not going to try and fight against four logis and two ECM boats because we know for a certainty that they'll break our logo chain and there's no way we'd be able to break the rr from three logis (primarying the 4th, of course). If we'd had a jamming or specialised nueter with us, maybe, but not with just DPS. We're not afraid to lose, but we're damned if we're going to accept a fight that's a foregone conclusion in which we won't just lose, but won't be able to do a damned thing while we get killed. You see, we don't care if a fight's not fair and against us, but we do want to avoid simply throwing a pile of ISK and a heap of time (getting new ships, getting pilots back into the hole, etc.) down the toilet.
Bold for emphasis... People screaming about others not fighting. |

GimmeRox
Double-Down Transmission Lost
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:52:00 -
[240] - Quote
Biggest hairiest balls ever.... |
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