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R.I.P ORCA?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:13:00 - [31] - Quote celebro wrote: Orca is still very useful ship, although I would agree that the mack' s ore hold and hulk fleet role now has made it imbalanced in its role: Changes needed: -Orca: Orehold 100,000m3 +1 low slot Remove mining foreman link for cap (useless) Add Mining forman link- Automated laser deactivation upon roid depletion Hulk/coveter: Role bonus: 5% fleet only yield increase. Shameful attempt to ask for even more buffs to an otherwise already great ship ^ :) And feel lucky that your getting all of this for only a mere 14 days training now unlike those of us who did the hard slog to train it up under the current regime. The cheek of these young ones complaining, they don't know how easy they have it these days. :)
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:14:00 - [32] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know Geez, do you actually mine at all? Of course the Orca pilot is going to have the mining foreman link, kind of defeats the whole purpose of having the fleet boosts if you don't use the relevant implant and only train your fleet skills to level 1.
Dave Stark 2487	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:15:00 - [33] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: um yea thats my point 1436 isnt max yeild so this idot is making a comparison on bad math saying that the orca boosts it way more based on wrong yeild info for the hulk so the poster is completely wrong considering orcas are % based, not absolute based, it's irrelevant whether it's max yield or not. do you understand how maths works? Maggie Thatcher.
celebro Perpetuum Industries 60	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:18:00 - [34] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: celebro wrote: Orca is still very useful ship, although I would agree that the mack' s ore hold and hulk fleet role now has made it imbalanced in its role: Changes needed: -Orca: Orehold 100,000m3 +1 low slot Remove mining foreman link for cap (useless) Add Mining forman link- Automated laser deactivation upon roid depletion Hulk/coveter: Role bonus: 5% fleet only yield increase. Shameful attempt to ask for even more buffs to an otherwise already great ship ^ :) And feel lucky that your getting all of this for only a mere 14 days training now unlike those of us who did the hard slog to train it up under the current regime. The cheek of these young ones complaining, they don't know how easy they have it these days. :) lol young ones, check when I joined eve.. trololol 3/4 hulk should be better than a 3/4 macks in fleet . You know you get a fleet bonus for macks in fleet, why?
Haulie Berry 338	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:19:00 - [35] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know You want all in? Fine. We'll go all in. All 5 skills, 2x MLU II, 3 modulated strips, 5 mining drones, T2 mining crystals, Michi's, and MX-1005 yield: 2111 With a max skill pilot in another Hulk acting as FC: 2282 That, plus an orca yields: 3305 2282 * 3 = 6846 3305 * 2 = 6610 + 312 (because if you're going to be a **** about it, the Orca can field a flight of drones too): 6922 6922 > 6846. In conclusion: You're still bad at this game. You're still bad at math.
Fractal Muse Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 253	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:19:00 - [36] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know Geez, do you actually mine at all? Of course the Orca pilot is going to have the mining foreman link, kind of defeats the whole purpose of having the fleet boosts if you don't use the relevant implant and only train your fleet skills to level 1. Also the effect of the mining link implant far exceeds the benefit of even every hulk pilot in the fleet fitted with the most expensive mining implants. He's trolling you pretty good though. So, yeah, he mines. :)
Lugues Slive Basement Chemists Dead Rune Society 1	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:21:00 - [37] - Quote Given the following cases: Case 1: Fleet of miners with no leadership skills, Max Orca boost is 1.15/(1-.3234) or 170% Case 2: Fleet of miners with Max leadership skills, Max Orca gives boost of 1.05/(1-.3234) or 155% Case 3: Fleet of miners with Max leadership and mindlink, Max Orca boost is 1/(1-.3234)or or 148% So the only case where 3 miners are better than 2wicked miners and a Orca is case 3 and you would have to be stupid to train all those skills and buy the implant and not use an Orca.
Ersahi Kir Freelance Mining Company 85	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:21:00 - [38] - Quote The orca is amazing, if you don't think so then you don't really understand how ridiculous it is. The orca is a fleet multiplier. Using the Laser Optimization II and the Mining Laser Field Enhancement II gang links you're being a huge force multiplier for your fleet. The extra range allows your ships to mine near the orca so they can deposit the ore directly into the fleet hanger, which saves a lot of time for haulers. But the math for the reduced cycle times is a lot more important. If you have maxed orca skill, leadership skills, and have the mining foreman mindlink your cycle time is -32%. That's almost a 1/3rd reduction in cycle time, which amounts to a ~47% increase in mining yield by itself. The mindlink also increases your mining yield bonus from leadership skills from 10% to 15%, which adds an extra 4% to each miner. Added together this results in ~54% added yield per miner, so if you fly with 2 or more barges the orca bonuses bring in more yield than an additional barge. But wait, there's more! If you're hardcore you can get the siege leadership gang link skills and add a shield harmonizing gang link II to give your fleet even more EHP. If gankers are motivated enough they can bring more people, but it does offer a nice chunk of survivability against ganks. But wait, there's more! The orca also serves as a mini-freighter that's less susceptible to ganks, so you can haul your refined material to a trade hub. edit: 1436 is the max yield per strip miner per cycle on a max yield hulk (2 MLU + 3 modulated strip miner II's). I think that number is using tech 1 mining crystals though, but this is also no implants. It can go higher of course, but it doesn't matter as the orca gives % based bonuses. A noob miner and a bittervet miner get the same % increase regardless of their base yield.
Solstice Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3121	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:22:00 - [39] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: I used to have an orca then i took an arrow to the knee. Now, after i got that out of the way ... ... i'll read the rest of your post.
Haulie Berry 338	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:23:00 - [40] - Quote What's really confusing to me is how you came up with 4 + orca being the tipping point. I could understand you believing 3 hulks is better than 2 + orca. Thinking you need 4 before it becomes efficient is way off base, though. At 3 + orca you're at 10,227. 4 hulks is WAY behind at that point, at 9128.

Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:24:00 - [41] - Quote celebro wrote: Rebecha Pucontis wrote: celebro wrote: Orca is still very useful ship, although I would agree that the mack' s ore hold and hulk fleet role now has made it imbalanced in its role: Changes needed: -Orca: Orehold 100,000m3 +1 low slot Remove mining foreman link for cap (useless) Add Mining forman link- Automated laser deactivation upon roid depletion Hulk/coveter: Role bonus: 5% fleet only yield increase. Shameful attempt to ask for even more buffs to an otherwise already great ship ^ :) And feel lucky that your getting all of this for only a mere 14 days training now unlike those of us who did the hard slog to train it up under the current regime. The cheek of these young ones complaining, they don't know how easy they have it these days. :) lol young ones, check when I joined eve.. trololol 3/4 hulk should be better than a 3/4 macks in fleet . You know you get a fleet bonus for macks in fleet, why? The comment above was tongue in cheek. And also the maths is pretty clear with the Orca, it is more than good enough. Giving it even more cargo capacity will mean that it will rival even freighters, and all for a mere 14 days training. In my opinion it needs a nerf, or ideally skill reqs need to be increased as 14 days is far to easy to get into such a powerful ship.
Ersahi Kir Freelance Mining Company 86	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:27:00 - [42] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: The comment above was tongue in cheek. And also the maths is pretty clear with the Orca, it is more than good enough. Giving it even more cargo capacity will mean that it will rival even freighters, and all for a mere 14 days training. In my opinion it needs a nerf, or ideally skill reqs need to be increased as 14 days is far to easy to get into such a powerful ship. I think it should require advanced spaceship command as a prereq. /stealth buff ftw
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:27:00 - [43] - Quote Fractal Muse wrote: Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know Geez, do you actually mine at all? Of course the Orca pilot is going to have the mining foreman link, kind of defeats the whole purpose of having the fleet boosts if you don't use the relevant implant and only train your fleet skills to level 1. Also the effect of the mining link implant far exceeds the benefit of even every hulk pilot in the fleet fitted with the most expensive mining implants. He's trolling you pretty good though. So, yeah, he mines. :) Someone who has difficulty differentiating between trolling and genuine tears ^ :) In fact, if I was the OP right now I would probably play the trolling card, as its the only way he's going to get out of this hole he has dug himself without humiliating himself further.
Dave Stark 2487	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:29:00 - [44] - Quote 14 days is nice to have access to the functions the hull provides, but it's not until you put in a few months more training does it really shine at it's intended role. Maggie Thatcher.
Haseo Antares Corollary Forest Fairytail. 25	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:29:00 - [45] - Quote I hear certain systems like old man star and tama give out mining bonuses. We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode whatn++ you just said.
Haulie Berry 341	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:29:00 - [46] - Quote Oh, also, those numbers were with T2 medium drone mining aug rigs. The mining drones are the only thing that DON'T enjoy a bonus from the Orca - so my configuration was optimized for the benefit of YOUR position, OP.
Mr. Orange Band of Freelancers 71	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:29:00 - [47] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Fractal Muse wrote: Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know Geez, do you actually mine at all? Of course the Orca pilot is going to have the mining foreman link, kind of defeats the whole purpose of having the fleet boosts if you don't use the relevant implant and only train your fleet skills to level 1. Also the effect of the mining link implant far exceeds the benefit of even every hulk pilot in the fleet fitted with the most expensive mining implants. He's trolling you pretty good though. So, yeah, he mines. :) Someone who has difficulty differentiating between trolling and genuine tears ^ :) In fact, if I was the OP right now I would probably play the trolling card, as its the only way he's going to get out of this hole he has dug himself without humiliating himself further. It's okay, I've already called and informed the OP's parents that their child was on the family computer unsupervised.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 7410	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:30:00 - [48] - Quote By this logic why would I even use an Orca for boosts when I could use a Drake with only a marginal loss in effectiveness? hurrr mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:31:00 - [49] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Oh, also, those numbers were with T2 medium drone mining aug rigs. The mining drones are the only thing that DON'T enjoy a bonus from the Orca - so my configuration was optimized for the benefit of YOUR position, OP. I think you have pwned the OP enough now. I don't think he'll be showing his face around here again for a while. :)
Solstice Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3121	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:35:00 - [50] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: So there you have it kiddies!! With the new changes of the barges to hold way more ore if you are not flying at least 5 accounts (1 orca and 4 miners) then you are wasting your time and money on the orca. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU ARE WASTING MINING YIELD!!!! DUH WHA? I have read your whole post. I really understand your issue, but i don't think you understand your issue yourself. Quote: With the new changes of the barges to hold way more ore if you are not flying at least 5 accounts (1 orca and 4 miners) then you are wasting your time and money on the orca. Logic, my good man. Logic. It's not possible to waste time mining, because there is not a single miner not doing something else, while the eve-client is running. One can not play "mining". It's not possible. You might warp to station every n minutes, but that's not playing the game. If you were actually doing something while mining, you would have to pay attention to what you are doing, but as mining does not require this, it is impossible to waste time mining ! Everything that's not elephant ... is irrelephant. o/

Dave Stark 2488	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:39:00 - [51] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: I really understand your issue, explain it to me then. because other than the inability to understand basic mathematics, i'm not entirely sure what his issue is. Maggie Thatcher.
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 1112	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:44:00 - [52] - Quote I thought mining was just a way to kill some time whilst chatting to corp mates. So for some folk mining is a serious business then. Gosh! This is not a signature.
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:49:00 - [53] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Solstice Project wrote: I really understand your issue, explain it to me then. because other than the inability to understand basic mathematics, i'm not entirely sure what his issue is. I think it is kinder to let the OP go now than to prolong his humiliation and suffering any further. :)
Dave Stark 2490	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:50:00 - [54] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Solstice Project wrote: I really understand your issue, explain it to me then. because other than the inability to understand basic mathematics, i'm not entirely sure what his issue is. I think it is kinder to let the OP go now than to prolong his humiliation and suffering any further. :) it's monday night, and i've got nothing better to do. now, make him dance for our amusement! Maggie Thatcher.
Skorpynekomimi 487	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:52:00 - [55] - Quote What is the orca good for? More than just mining. - Tanky haulage. You can squeeze about 200k EHP out of it, and close to 100k m3 cargo space split between the hangar and hold. Plus 50k m3 of ore. - Moving your operation around. I tend to load mine full of ships, so I can do other things while moving things about. - Secure temporary storage. Log an alt in flying it, access your stuff and ships, log them out. - Add some gang links instead of mining links, and you have a buff to gank resistance. Especially if you're skilled properly. ****
Drunken Bum School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 61	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:53:00 - [56] - Quote Screw mining. The orca allowed me to nomad around in wormholes, (thanks to psychotic monks nomad guide!) that ship has a ton of uses beyond mining. anyone spare some change?
Estella Osoka Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords 82	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:56:00 - [57] - Quote He needs things explained to him in Dr. Suess rhymes?
Dave Stark 2490	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:57:00 - [58] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: He needs things explained to him in Dr. Suess rhymes? his post is bad. his math is bad. i don't understand rhymes. bacon. Maggie Thatcher.
Haulie Berry 343	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:08:00 - [59] - Quote Drunken Bum wrote: Screw mining. The orca allowed me to nomad around in wormholes, (thanks to psychotic monks nomad guide!) that ship has a ton of uses beyond mining. anyone spare some change? This. I have an Orca and I haven't mined a day in my life. It's just an amazing utility ship.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 321	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:21:00 - [60] - Quote Azami Nevinyrall wrote: I have several Orca's actually, each with their own particular setup for several tasks. From hauler to support to mining, (just to name a few) ***** and moan when they get balanced... This basically. Remove insurance.



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