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Gallamoth Sickle Aliastra Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:26:00 - [1] - Quote No really think about it what is the Orca for agian? I used to have an orca then i quit eve for awhile and came back after the new exhumer changes. I have had a lot of trouble since then with the realization that my Orca, once the pride of my 4 account mining fleet was now kind of useless. After some time now i am thinking about selling my Orca because i need the money for more useful assets. Am i missing something about the Orcas usefulness? From my point of view the Orca was usefull because of its large cargo hold. The large orca hold was of course useful because the barges had comparatively very small holds, making it more profitable to have an orca to load your ore into then flying back to station ever few cycles. Now however some of the barges (retriever,mackinaw) have enormous holds well over 25km3. So I found i really didnt need the orca to haul stuff anymore. Lets review the strong points of the Orca and discover that they are not so strong 1) the orca can hold mining ships --------->am i the only one that finds this ability less then useful? more of a luxury then a necessity? I never find my self using the orca for its ability to hold mining ships. I get that its nice to have this ability if you want to mine in a system thats a few jumps away or with no station in it, but then i would argue most people dont like risking their orca in null sec by flying it around through multiple gates. Also its easy to get in a null sec corp with a good mining system with a station in the same system or one system away making the orcas ability to hold ships kinda pointless or un necessary. 2)The orca can refit mining barges -------->yes this is usefull the orca can put more mining lasers on your ships. This is more useful in high sec then null sec i would argue though because null sec roids have huge amounts of ore in them so you can fit your ships for the type of ore you are going to mine and be good to go for hours... Again this is nice but more of a luxery then a necessity or in other words not a reason to fly the ship. 3) The orca has a huge hold that allows you to mine without having to stop and warp to station all the time. ------->this is true but now with the new changes you dont really need to warp to station all the time do you? i mean the retriever and mackinaw ore holds are insanely large now. I even find myself using retrievers and mackinaws as a mini orca!!! I mine with cheaper coveters and then jet can from them to retrievers and mackinaws because their holds are so large. 4)Oh lets not forget the mining bonuses!!! -------->Ah yes the Orcas mining bonuses many of you might be thinking this is the main reason anyone flys an Orca not the hold. Or its a combination of the hold and the mining bonuses. But lets not be too quick to praise the mining bonuses and end the discussion here...lets consult the math and see what exactly do you get for these bonuses. -------------->Harvester Capacitor Efficiency: cuts down on cap use for your mining lasers/harvesters I really dont care about this bonus my lasers always have enough energy for their next cycle so......yea whatever --------------->Laser Optimization: cuts down on your cycle time for mining lasers/harvesters Freaking nice!!! yea this is what its all about!!! -------------->Mining Laser Field Enhancement: increases the range of your lasers/harvesters yea..... i guess this nice but i find warp fleet to 0 works just as well..............but i guess i can see the use in high sec where roids pop every cycle or other cycle but its just not the case in null. Conclusion! THE YIELD!!! The Orca is a ship that could be mining!!! Yes if you think about it the orca does boost the mining yeild of other ships but it doesn't mine!! so whats the deal? well the deal is you need a perfectly trained orca ((Industrial Command Ship 5, Mining Director 5, Warfare Link Specialist 5, Mind link Implant) would have roughly a 25% bonus to each activated mining link. So an Orca needs to be boosting at least 4 other miners to be worthwhile in terms of mining yield.)) THE HOLD!! the cargo space isnGÇÖt enough to support 4 or more hulks mining a belt. Even if you fit it for max storage, it holds about 180,000 m3 of ore (remember, the ship bay only holds ships) between the cargo hold, ore hold, and corp hangar. ThatGÇÖs about 6 and a half full cans worth of ore. Not bad, but a large mining op will fill up 6 cans quickly. And if the Orca has to warp back to a station to keep dumping ore, that negates the link bonuses, as they deactivate in warp. Losing a range bonus halfway through a strip miner cycle can waste a lot of ore if the roid drops out of range. Not to mention that the inertia and warp speed modifiers, while faster than a freighter, will still make your hulk feel like a frigate in comparison, so constantly moving the ship isnGÇÖt a real option. A dedicated hauler is still required. The way i see it So there you have it kiddies!! With the new changes of the barges to hold way more ore if you are not flying at least 5 accounts (1 orca and 4 miners) then you are wasting your time and money on the orca. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU ARE WASTING MINING YIELD!!!! DUH WHA? So all in all i say to the orca R.I.P my friend you served me well but now its time to put you to pasture as you are old and outdated. Because when your a billionaire and your wife is 40 years old its time to trade her in for a 20 year old because you can.....
baltec1 Bat Country 5859	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:28:00 - [2] - Quote Nerf the mack save the whales.
Haulie Berry 328	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote Orca is amazing, learn to play.
Charlie Jacobson 60	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:38:00 - [4] - Quote The mining bonuses make it a good addition to big mining fleets. It's not dying at all.
Gallamoth Sickle Aliastra Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:38:00 - [5] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Orca is amazing, learn to play. HEY LOOK GUYS MY FIRST TROLL!! SOMEONE TAKE A PICTURE the poster provides neither knowledge nor understanding so we profit nothing from this useless troll.....but hey where would be without idiots to hold us intelligent people up on their shoulders?
Azami Nevinyrall Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team 809	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:41:00 - [6] - Quote I have several Orca's actually, each with their own particular setup for several tasks. From hauler to support to mining, (just to name a few) ***** and moan when they get balanced... I'm not entirely clear on the point of this, but I do have a sudden urge to jump in a catalyst and blow up a miner. Twitter! - @AzamiNevinyrall I'm half expecting a ban for this post.
Gallamoth Sickle Aliastra Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:43:00 - [7] - Quote Charlie Jacobson wrote: The mining bonuses make it a good addition to big mining fleets. It's not dying at all. seriously do you people even read the OP before you write your ground braking revelations and post them? yes it is true the mining bonus is good addition to a big mining fleet.....or to put more precisely 4 OR MORE HULKS AS I ALREADY STATED IN MY OP so for those miners with LESS THEN 5 ACCOUNTS (like i said already also) IT IS USELESS
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 4076	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:43:00 - [8] - Quote Biggest Troll Thread of the Day. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde
Charlie Jacobson 60	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:44:00 - [9] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Charlie Jacobson wrote: The mining bonuses make it a good addition to big mining fleets. It's not dying at all. seriously do you people even read the OP before you right your ground braking revelations and post them? yes it is true the mining bonus is good addition to a big mining fleet.....or to put more precisely 4 OR MORE HULKS AS I ALREADY STATED IN MY OP so for those miners with LESS THEN 5 ACCOUNTS (like i said already also) IT IS USELESS So you're extremely angry because a ship designed for big mining fleets is not good for small mining fleets? I see. Carry on. This should be fun.
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 1319	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:44:00 - [10] - Quote The math on this was done to death when the changes came out, but IIRC at 4 characters, it was more isk/hour using 3 hulks + orca vs 4 macks. There are some variables like time to offload and such, but that's the paper math on it. In terms of ease of use running 4 accounts, 4 macks would probably win out in high sec because of roid size. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Dave Stark 2482	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:45:00 - [11] - Quote 1) the orca can hold ANY ship. 2) the orca can refit ANY ship. 3) yes because a 35k mackinaw's ore bay is comparable to a near 200k cargo capacity of an orca. right? 4) let's just ignore that the maths even though you said you'd consult it. after 2 ships an orca is better than an extra miner, that's a laugahbly small fleet size for an orca to become a "requirement" rather than a luxury. if we're looking at individual links, the range link means you need close to 0 movement in a high sec belt, when warping to a beacon at 0 removing the need for bookmarks at all. good job completely ignoring the shield harmonising link. if you'd actually look at the ship, and think, you'd see that it's outrageously useful for a myriad of situations. also your math is horrible, try again. anything typed under the "the yield" is terrible. in short; if you were actually correct about anything in your post, people may take you seriously instead of laughing at you. Maggie Thatcher.
Haulie Berry 331	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:45:00 - [12] - Quote I love when the peasants get riled up about their peasant-work.
Gallamoth Sickle Aliastra Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:47:00 - [13] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: 1) the orca can hold ANY ship. 2) the orca can refit ANY ship. 3) yes because a 35k mackinaw's ore bay is comparable to a near 200k cargo capacity of an orca. right? 4) let's just ignore that the maths even though you said you'd consult it. after 2 ships an orca is better than an extra miner, that's a laugahbly small fleet size for an orca to become a "requirement" rather than a luxury. if we're looking at individual links, the range link means you need close to 0 movement in a high sec belt, when warping to a beacon at 0 removing the need for bookmarks at all. good job completely ignoring the shield harmonising link. if you'd actually look at the ship, and think, you'd see that it's outrageously useful for a myriad of situations. also your math is horrible, try again. anything typed under the "the yield" is terrible. in short; if you were actually correct about anything in your post, people may take you seriously instead of laughing at you. what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian
Dave Stark 2485	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:51:00 - [14] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Dave Stark wrote: 1) the orca can hold ANY ship. 2) the orca can refit ANY ship. 3) yes because a 35k mackinaw's ore bay is comparable to a near 200k cargo capacity of an orca. right? 4) let's just ignore that the maths even though you said you'd consult it. after 2 ships an orca is better than an extra miner, that's a laugahbly small fleet size for an orca to become a "requirement" rather than a luxury. if we're looking at individual links, the range link means you need close to 0 movement in a high sec belt, when warping to a beacon at 0 removing the need for bookmarks at all. good job completely ignoring the shield harmonising link. if you'd actually look at the ship, and think, you'd see that it's outrageously useful for a myriad of situations. also your math is horrible, try again. anything typed under the "the yield" is terrible. in short; if you were actually correct about anything in your post, people may take you seriously instead of laughing at you. what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian i don't need to try again, it's a fact, that's why i'm informing you that your math is wrong. Maggie Thatcher.
Haulie Berry 334	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:51:00 - [15] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math.
Mr. Orange Band of Freelancers 70	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:56:00 - [16] - Quote I didn't even read the OP wall-o-****, to know that he's an idiot.
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:57:00 - [17] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. pwned :)
Domina Trix McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN 32	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:02:00 - [18] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. The boosting orca is only better than the third hulk when the orca and related skills are maxed until that point that orca pilot brings more to the mining operation by flying another hulk. Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Gallamoth Sickle Aliastra Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:02:00 - [19] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of ****
Dave Stark 2485	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:05:00 - [20] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of **** 1436 isn't even max yield. claiming it's "wrong" is making you sound stupid. please, maths, try it? Maggie Thatcher.
Haulie Berry 336	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:05:00 - [21] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of **** It's the per-minute yield, genius - and I was very generous to your position. That's JUST with max skills, T2 strips, and T2 MLUs, and T1 crystals. Start throwing in implants and T2 crystals and you start looking even more ridiculous.
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:05:00 - [22] - Quote Domina Trix wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. The boosting orca is only better than the third hulk when the orca and related skills are maxed until that point that orca pilot brings more to the mining operation by flying another hulk. The general idea of being an Orca pilot is that you have the skills to fly it, and with the new nerf to skill reqs its going to be even easier so really there is no excuse now at all. Also its like saying it is better to bring a frigate to a fleet battle instead of a capital ship, unless the capital ship pilot has good skills.
Mr. Orange Band of Freelancers 70	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:07:00 - [23] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of **** Why are you using the family computer unsupervised? Do your parents know that you're on the internet right now?
Gallamoth Sickle Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:07:00 - [24] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of **** 1436 isn't even max yield. claiming it's "wrong" is making you sound stupid. please, maths, try it? um yea thats my point 1436 isnt max yeild so this idot is making a comparison on bad math saying that the orca boosts it way more based on wrong yeild info for the hulk so the poster is completely wrong
Haulie Berry 336	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:08:00 - [25] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of **** 1436 isn't even max yield. claiming it's "wrong" is making you sound stupid. please, maths, try it? um yea thats my point 1436 isnt max yeild so this idot is making a comparison on bad math saying that the orca boosts it way more based on wrong yeild info for the hulk so the poster is completely wrong The orca boosts a percentage. Any increase to the Hulk's yield is going to be further magnified by the presence of an Orca. If I add implants and T2 crystals, you're just going to look even more ridiculous.
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 126	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:08:00 - [26] - Quote OP, I think you need to learn how to use EFT properly. It is relatively easy to see what a skilled Orca pilot brings to even a small mining operation, and this is considering simply the mining bonuses alone and not even mentioning all the other added benefits you get with the Orca.
Ai Shun 922	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:08:00 - [27] - Quote Gallamoth Sickle wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Gallamoth Sickle wrote: what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436 Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441 1436 * 3 = 4308 2441 * 2 = 4882 4882 > 4308. In conclusion: -A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk. -You're bad at this game. -You're bad at math. yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of **** Easily solved. You can sell your Orca and buy whatever you like or do whatever you want. Others will continue to get a use for their Orcas. So no problem there and no need to be so rude when somebody is trying to help you.
celebro Perpetuum Industries 60	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:09:00 - [28] - Quote Orca is still very useful ship, although I would agree that the mack' s ore hold and hulk fleet role now has made it imbalanced in its role: Changes needed: -Orca: Orehold 100,000m3 +1 low slot Remove mining foreman link for cap (useless) Add Mining forman link- Automated laser deactivation upon roid depletion Hulk/coveter: Role bonus: 5% fleet only yield increase.
Psychotic Monk The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard 1022	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:11:00 - [29] - Quote The Orca is a great mobile base. When I've tackled a carebear in a mission space and I can't break his tank I can land an Orca and refit to neuts until his cap is dry! It allows me to take my toolkit with me, so I'm much more likely to have the right tool for the job. I would love a t2 Orca with a larger ship hold, though. Three cruisers and a couple frigs means I have to choose what tools are most important to me very carefully, and I would gladly pay extra for a little more space for activities in there. Psychotic Monk for CSM. Belligerent Undesirables Blog.
Gallamoth Sickle Aliastra Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:11:00 - [30] - Quote no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know

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