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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Methos
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Posted - 2005.09.14 07:02:00 -
[1]
This is what I have for research points thus far, and as of almost 19 months, i have no BPO's to show for this, I am thinking it was a colossal waste of time and isk buy these skills and training them up far enough to be ever really be worth the time/effort and as of yet it has not been. Any kind of possitive feed back to wether this lottery system is actually working correctly would be great.
Methos
Mislolen IssazainenCaldari Starship Engineering 83668.94241.92
Olonashi Nokka Caldari Starship Engineering 86086.33249.60
Harroken ShinunulaCaldari Starship Engineering151441.85266.88
Eistenen ArverasElectromagnetic Physics 10553.56 20.16
Anuken Urpalen Electronic Engineering 11763.58 59.78
Airatomon KidurouchiHydromagnetic Physics 15277.13 41.04
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence,
then, is not an act, but a habit." ARISTOTLE |
Corair
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Posted - 2005.09.14 07:13:00 -
[2]
Oh it works, but it's more like the "Wheel of Misfortune" than a lottery.
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I use homeless people and small children for fuel. |
Methos
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Posted - 2005.09.14 07:23:00 -
[3]
Well with over 300k in Cald ship you would with that when the "lottery" time comes around that my over a quarter million points might help even some, yet I hear about people getting BPO's with far less RP's than myself or even others. I am just looking to get some reasurance that this park of the game isnt borked the hell up.
Methos
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence,
then, is not an act, but a habit." ARISTOTLE |
capt
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Posted - 2005.09.14 08:46:00 -
[4]
Indeed some peole get BPOs for far less research points. But then again it is a lottery.....
IRL you could buy a thousand lottery tickets and win nothing and your neighbour could buy only 1 ticket and win it all.....
Then there is the fact that for some research projects you get far less rps/day than for others. For example rocket science project will give you far less rps than starship engineering......
Then there is the fact that everyone and his grandmother has multiple researchprojects in starship engineering. Thus reducing your chances of getting a BPO even more.....
You chances are a bit better with other projects.
And to keep you motivated, miracles do happen. I got a t2 BPO this weekend and I had that particular project running since day 1 or 2 that they introduced the research agents.... so that's a pretty long time.
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Methos
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Posted - 2005.09.14 08:58:00 -
[5]
First off, Grats for your win. And yes I have had the 151k guy running since pretty much the day they came out. I do have other projects as you can see and fairly high numbers there also and still no wins. I have gotten nothing and am curious if there are others in my same frame of mind that have ungodly amounts of time spent researching these things with nothing to show. I was doing this when they were hardly topping 5-6k on at peak times, now I can see that with so many people trying to get them I is was in the middle somewhere not getting one would not be nearly as annoying as being here since day one and not getting one. I started the game wanting to do the whole R&D thing with BPs back when it first launched and then got turned into a miner/trader with some ratting in between. I have been waiting since the beta and am wondering wtf is going on. SO, thi isnt me only doing it for a few months and getting feed up its me wanting to do this type of thing since the last phases of the beta and still not. Thats all. Its more of a frustration thing than anything else.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence,
then, is not an act, but a habit." ARISTOTLE |
Wendy Holl
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Posted - 2005.09.14 09:36:00 -
[6]
What is it you dont understand about the work "lottery" ?
having large amounts of RP's is no guaranty of getting a tech II BPO
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.09.14 10:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Trooper B99 on 14/09/2005 10:02:16
Remember, you may have loads with 300k RP, but I know of at least 3 other people who must have close on a million RP all combined in Caldari Starship Engineering if they haven't gotten BPo's yet and there are plenty more like them.
You've chosen as your primary a field (starship engineering) that is HEAVILY populated. Add to that you chose Caldari which is probably *the* most heavily populated of the Starship engineering fields. Thus your chance to get a BPo is smaller than say if you chose, for example, Amarran starship engineering.
So basically 50% of your possible rsearch projects are in a very very narrow field (x3 mod) with loads of other people all clamoring for very few BPo's per seeding.
Patience if the key with the lottery. Patience that eventually you will get lucky. Me i've gotten lucky 3 times since I started when the lottery started, once from Caldari Starship Engineering. Both other times were from more general fields. I don't wait with baited breath for a mail from my R&D agents simply because the odds are stacked against me even with my general field research projects.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Methos
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Posted - 2005.09.14 10:05:00 -
[8]
AH yes the word "lottery" I understand it clearly, I also understand that there are ppl who have won multiple times in a row. I am can tell you that 1 person winning a lottery consecutive times is not something you would or could calculate as the numbers would go beyond reason. Although with this particular type of lottery this has happend. i am not only voicing my frustration but that of all the people that have been hard at work running those stupid take my garbage here missions and what not. The word lottery is something i use lightly when compairing it to this type of "lottery". Here in the states if one person won a state lottery we would have a huge racus about it and it would be gone over with a fine tooth comb. In this "lottery" that is not the case or at least was not the case before. If you have nothing constructive to point out then by all means feel free to keep it in 
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence,
then, is not an act, but a habit." ARISTOTLE |
Kaaii
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Posted - 2005.09.14 11:10:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kaaii on 14/09/2005 11:12:34
I say..
Have CCP put in the bp purchase, BUT
You can only purchase bpos with Research points.
Rewards the researchers, poo-poo's the money bags.
Make it an auction of sorts too, a week after notification, the bpo is rewarded to the one that "spent" the highest amount of RPs.
OR,
Everyone that wants to particapate in the lotto pool for a particular bpo, "spends" a certain amount (whatever they want to commit) into a mini-lotto pool for that bpo. then the winner is selected by random number, as before. This way if you don't want a gremlin II rocket bpo you won't be offered it if you haven't joined the "mini-pool"
thoughts?
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
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Jerod Nox
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Posted - 2005.09.14 11:30:00 -
[10]
To get an idea of the likelyhood of you having never won a raffle (really this is a raffle, not a lottery) inspite having played multiple times you need to know (or at least estimate) a few things:
A) How many raffle tickets are in play.
B) How many of them are yours.
C) How many raffle drawings have taken place.
Now, we know that (A) is very large compared to (B). I would not dare to estimate how large but I think its safe to assume that you have a good deal less than 1% of all the raffle tickets in play.
It is (C) that we can really put a number down on. Somebody here I am sure can provide a very good estimate of the total number of raffles that have taken place.
To calculate the chance that a person with (B) tickets out of (A) total tickets will NOT win ANY out of (C) drawings:
Chance = (1 - A / B) ^ C
As an extremely rough guess, lets say you have 0.1% of all the raffle tickets (1 out of every 1000), and that there have been 300 drawings:
(1 - 1 / 1000) ^ 300
=
(999 / 1000) ^ 300
=
0.74070703
...
so if my estimates are correct, 3 out of 4 people with the same amount of raffle tickets as you have not won a damn thing.
Nox - Superior technology is superior choice.
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capt
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Posted - 2005.09.14 11:46:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Methos
If you have nothing constructive to point out then by all means feel free to keep it in
Funny you should mention "constructive". Your posts didn't really have anything constructive to ad either....
The only message I keep getting when reading your posts is "waaaa waaaa waaaaa where is my t2 bpo waaaa waaaa waaaa".
I have had the same thoughts. I too have multiple research projects. I started the fisrt or second day the research agents were introduced.
And yes it also made me scream out in anger when people got BPOs with only a handfull of rps.
But all this talk about hard work? Really now........ You honnestly can look me in the eye and tell me that you run each and every mission that those 5 research agents offer you daily?
I only did those missions the first month and then basicly told my agents where he/she could put his/her missions. so use math to calculate it for me, starting right after Castor, did only 1 months worth of missions, 'till last weekend where I finally got a BPO. And it was my very firts BPO offer, I never declined offers. Some people have declined numerous offers for mods theny thought weren't interesting enough.
But yes I hear you. I feel your pain.
I've had my doubts ,and loads of other peope have had their doubts too, on the lottery and if it didn't contain some programming errors or something.... There have been numerous post on the subject... and it never amounted to anything so you just have to trust CCP that this is the fairest system at moment.
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Bryan Durl
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Posted - 2005.09.14 13:56:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Bryan Durl on 14/09/2005 13:57:25
Correct me if im wrong, but you don't seem to have anything to fall back on. I don't do research because i don't see the point, if you waste away all your time doing reasearch and then complain that you don't have anything to do now because you havn't gotten any rewards then i have no sympathy.
Although this entire statement can be changed because im not entirely sure how research agents work.
Sorry if my view is wrong, or recieved badly.
Bry
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How did i get here?
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Sable Moran
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Posted - 2005.09.14 13:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jerod Nox
A) How many raffle tickets are in play.
B) How many of them are yours.
C) How many raffle drawings have taken place.
I don't profess to have any facts on this (except for B). These are just my educated guesses:
B = about 320k for the OP
C = once per week when there is anything in the queue would not be an entirely bad guess. R&D agents have been around about 90 weeks. In the starthip engineering queues there has been something in them most of that time, let's say 75 weeks. So 75 raffles.
A = This is the most difficult to estimate. We can safely assume several thousand guys/gals running R&D agents. Each has 2 or 3 agents doing starship engineering jobs. Lets also assume maximized skills etc. and we will end up at about 250 RP/per day. Lets add up the numbers: 630 days of research done for 2,5 agents at 250 RP/day by about 10000 players.
630 * 250 = 157500 (pretty close to what the OP has on his number 1 agent)
157500 * 2,5 * 10000 = 3937500000
In other words there are almost four thousand million research points in starship engineering alone. Let's make a bold assumption and say that those 4 billion points are equally divided among the four races, that makes 1 billion points in caldari starship engineering.
Quite a lot of research points. The chances for any one individual of getting a BPO are low, very low.
Somebody do the maths to get the exact % for the chances, I can't be arsed.
-----
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
Alabaster Plate
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Posted - 2005.09.14 14:10:00 -
[14]
WHere's my t2 BPO? I have 300 rps. That's three hundred - not 300k.
Hope i win before you do
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Cookie
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Posted - 2005.09.14 21:56:00 -
[15]
"What does it take to get a friggen BPO!!!!!"
patience, and ... more important, truckloads of luck, hence that lottery thingy mentioned several times.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.14 22:14:00 -
[16]
truckloads of luck, or sleep with the agent.
skill training of Doing Anything to get a Promotion to level 5 completed
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Methos
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Posted - 2005.09.15 05:31:00 -
[17]
Wow I am glad to see that there are other people that are as buggerd about it as myself, I am patient and yes I know everyone and thier cousin and brothers frieds friend is doing Starship research. That being said even to those that have 300 not 300k good luck in the "drawing" and yea I think its more of a raffel than a true lottery. I have always wonderd about it and still and I am sure I will continue to do so. Well thanks everyone for replying to my rant and for those of you that came in with the facts my hats off to you.
Thanks all 
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence,
then, is not an act, but a habit." ARISTOTLE |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.15 09:50:00 -
[18]
1 run t2 BPCs that offer much more often than the t2 BPOs coming soon from CCP - its such a good idea isnt it :)
perhaps 5000 RP for each one or u could knock it back etc.
TBH put the RP up there otehrwise its a waste of time. Better to run level 4 missions - get the LP get the offers save youre ISK and buy a t2 BPO for 2B approx
Be careful of escrow - cause a lot of people pass of t2 BPOs as t1 BPOs (always inspect merchandise to make sure its the real deal
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.09.15 13:21:00 -
[19]
I kinda agree with the idea of having a BPO / BPC auction using RPs rather than a Lottery.
1) ppl with ridiculous amounts of RPs will finally get something for them.
2) BPCs rather than BPOs would make some Tech2 available to everyone who saves enough RPs to buy them.
3) cash isnt the buying power but RPs saved.
4) BPC sales to players will keep Tech2 flowing into the game without crushing the BPO winners profits.
5) Tech2 flow can be directed by CCP easier with BPC auctions since they can flood or dry up areas as needed.
6) Faction BPCs could be sold the same way for ppl who dont do missions up the ying yang.
7) goofy new BPCs can be entered into the game with reasonable control as testing beds (ie imagine a Navy issue BPO getting out there vs some BPCs, another entry could be implant BPCs to soak up RPs).
8) RPs can become a sub trading currency instead of isks for the RnD markets, allowing poor and unlucky researchers to atleast get a piece of the pie if they spend some RPs from time to time.
I can see CCP fearing the loss of control of too many BPOs out there. But an auction system for BPCs of tech2 would help the frustrated RnD ppl out there. It will also somewhat give a return on stockpiling RPs to infinity.
Just some thoughts. Comments ????
TotensBurntCorpse
Likes
EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes
Not much. |
Arleonenis
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Posted - 2005.09.15 15:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Arleonenis on 15/09/2005 15:19:21
agree with toten, buying for rp is far better imho and no i dont have resarch agent and i dont think about getting one, it just seems fair to me. From what i know there was multiple persons that got many tech2 bpos, some guys get it few in the row... sooo its not true lottery, just very bad programming
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Phenomenor
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Posted - 2005.09.15 15:28:00 -
[21]
Aye, copy that mr Totens !!! great idea!!
"The more we know, the brighter the light, but the greater the mating face with things still in the dark..." |
Jolo
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Posted - 2005.09.15 16:02:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jolo on 15/09/2005 16:03:15
In my opinion it's rigged, CCP is giving those BPO to their own personnel, think about it you hear people getting them but who are they. That's my 2 cents.
Disclaimer this is my view and if you tell anyone I said this I will deny it.
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Methos
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:46:00 -
[23]
The buying BPC with RP is a great idea. i really think it should be suggested to them, at least as a trial thing to see how it works out.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence,
then, is not an act, but a habit." ARISTOTLE |
Tars Tarkhas
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Posted - 2005.09.21 18:17:00 -
[24]
 Have patience. Taking so long and being so random is part of what makes it so fun if/when you do win.
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Johannes Buckbeak
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Posted - 2005.09.21 19:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Arleonenis
Edited by: Arleonenis on 15/09/2005 15:19:21
agree with toten, buying for rp is far better imho and no i dont have resarch agent and i dont think about getting one, it just seems fair to me. From what i know there was multiple persons that got many tech2 bpos, some guys get it few in the row... sooo its not true lottery, just very bad programming
That "sooo" is just sooo wrong. Some people get more than their fair share, some get nothing... sooo we know it IS a true lottery. A random process produces precisely this sort of clustering. If everyone got rewarded in proportion to their RPs, and nobody got more or less than their fair share, then we would know for sure that it was not a lottery.
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Mannakin
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Posted - 2005.09.21 19:15:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mannakin on 21/09/2005 19:19:51
Edited by: Mannakin on 21/09/2005 19:18:09
This may be obvious, but it's only possible to get a BPO if your agent still has some on offer. When you started research there may have been some nice juicy BPOs, but check again.
If it says "Nothing easily predictable." in your science subject, then you are only accumulating points in that science for any future BPO that may be introduced to the game.
Examine your agent "Eistenen Arveras" for an example!
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Zinjan
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Posted - 2005.09.21 21:27:00 -
[27]
Long ago there should have been a rp limit in place, so that only f.ex. 1 month worth of rp's would be entering the drawing. This way a lot more rp's would exit the system, resulting in a more fairly distribution.
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Tarino
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Posted - 2005.09.21 23:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jolo
Edited by: Jolo on 15/09/2005 16:03:15
In my opinion it's rigged, CCP is giving those BPO to their own personnel, think about it you hear people getting them but who are they. That's my 2 cents.
Disclaimer this is my view and if you tell anyone I said this I will deny it.
I was talking to a guy in the Blue Print trade channel and he said he won like 5 t2 bpos this month alone. thought it kinda odd that he also used to be in the BiG Corporation. which has known connections with CCP for events and such.
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Lefia
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Posted - 2005.09.22 04:46:00 -
[29]
I've always been a huge advocate of having research agents use the lotto system to give out BPOs and also have research agents give out "offers" of BPCs that take research points and possibly a small nominal isk or trade good in exchange exchange. This way those who want to play the lottery can, while the rest of us can get a few BPCs and make some of those mods that are currently gouging the market (T2 Cap Rechargers).
Originally by: hired goon
------------------------------------------------
I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had.
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Riggwelter
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Posted - 2005.09.22 15:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jolo
Edited by: Jolo on 15/09/2005 16:03:15
In my opinion it's rigged, CCP is giving those BPO to their own personnel, think about it you hear people getting them but who are they. That's my 2 cents.
Disclaimer this is my view and if you tell anyone I said this I will deny it.
Well im not a CCP employee and over 2 Research Characters ive had 6 BPO offers as follows
Harpy
Large Shield Booster
650mm Artillery
Medium Cap Battery
A tech 2 passive armour hardner (no idea what as i declined it)
Dual 250mm Rail Gun
Then again maybe im just very lucky was actually starting to think been a while since i had a BPO offer 
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