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and another macro-miner bites the dust

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Hydrocarbon	Posted - 2005.09.15 17:37:00 - [31] While I applaud CCP's efforts in crushing the scourge of macro miners (It must be lonely, being the ONLY company who even bothers), I feel it necessary to point out a few things: 1. These people are in it for the real life dollars. In the time it has taken to move against these 100 accounts, they have been able to sell in-game assets for WELL BEYOND the cumulative subscription fees they have shelled out thus far. 2. Having witnessed their mode of operation in other games (Everquest and Lineage come to mind), I can tell you right now that this action will do virtually nothing to stem the tide. These people have more experience at beating the system than CCP has at catching them. They already have dozens, possibly hundreds of accounts already trained, equipped and dormant - just in case their primary farming accounts get banned, they can simply re-activate their backups and be cranking out the ISK in under an hour. 3. They will continue assaulting the game (and that's what it is, an assault) until one of two things happens: a) EVE gets shut down or b) demand dries up. They are a business like any other, and like any business, they like to turn a profit. They can only turn a profit if they have a steady supply of customers. The only way to stop them is to ban their customers. Nothing else will work, because the farmers assume virtually no risk. There's always a new email address or credit card number, so they can keep creating new accounts and circumventing the EULA ad infinitum. But their CUSTOMERS...that's another story. They are violating the EULA as well, but they don't have an endless stream of credit card numbers, nor do they have the massive financial motivations (and they are MASSIVE. The secondary market for virtual items is worth millions per year). Keep banning the sellers, as many as you can and as fast as you can...but you won't kill the problem until you ban the buyers.
Deka Kador	Posted - 2005.09.15 17:54:00 - [32] I'm also quite worried by something else. CCP have admitted macro use is on the rise. CCP have also realised they're getting more and more users online. A very troubling coincidence. Maybe the new users are nothing more than macro vultures.

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.09.15 17:58:00 - [33] Originally by: Hydrocarbon Keep banning the sellers, as many as you can and as fast as you can...but you won't kill the problem until you ban the buyers. Those also get warned and banned if there is a trace to them, please do not understimate the GM's they are remarkably resourceful. I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage You spin me right round, baby.

Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.09.15 17:59:00 - [34] Nice work and thanks. I'm also curious why it's not a perma ban?
Slaveabuser	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Eris Discordia Originally by: Hydrocarbon Keep banning the sellers, as many as you can and as fast as you can...but you won't kill the problem until you ban the buyers. Those also get warned and banned if there is a trace to them, please do not understimate the GM's they are remarkably resourceful. They shouldnt get warned. They should all be banned. Ban them....bann them all in the face! Nothing personal
YodaMasterJedi	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:15:00 - [36] Nice work guys!! I say start blocking hardware MAC Addresses of the users network cards. Of these computers they use, how many have built in NIC's in the motherboard? Renders that NIC and motherboard useless to connect to Eve. Not an easy implementation, but would work!!
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:31:00 - [37] (3) You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. Since the mining lasers pull ore in at the same speed is a macro miner really violating the eula? What defines ordinary gameplay when mining, a single person in a frigate or a person with 3 machines running 3 accounts mass mining in covetors with t2 strips? Why is the loophole there?
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:34:00 - [38] Edited by: Summersnow on 15/09/2005 18:35:35 Edited by: Summersnow on 15/09/2005 18:34:53 Originally by: Slaveabuser They shouldnt get warned. They should all be banned. Ban them....bann them all in the face! I can think of a LOT of things that deserve a banning that are perfectly legal in game far more then some poor newb buying 100 mil isk online to get a battleship not knowing it was a eula violation.
Chewyguru	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:39:00 - [39] I think they mean that its ok to run more than one account mining at same time. you just cannot use Stored commands or keystrokes to accomplish this mining. you have to actually take the time to drag drop your ore.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:46:00 - [40] Originally by: YodaMasterJedi I say start blocking hardware MAC Addresses of the users network cards. Of these computers they use, how many have built in NIC's in the motherboard? Renders that NIC and motherboard useless to connect to Eve. It's not like it's impossible to spoof a MAC address. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
implanted	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:50:00 - [41] ban the macro miners and warn the buyer only once then ban that would definately stem the tide of macroers.
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:52:00 - [42] Originally by: Chewyguru I think they mean that its ok to run more than one account mining at same time. you just cannot use Stored commands or keystrokes to accomplish this mining. you have to actually take the time to drag drop your ore. I think you misunderstood my point. CCP's EULA states macroing is illegal but adds the disclaimer "if it gives you stuff quicker then you'd get without the macro's" basically Since mining is and always will be at a set fixed rate based on laser speed an nothing a macro can do will ever improve that rate no ones breaking the rules as written here. As they wrote it I'm thinking it'd be perfectly legal to sit in front of a machine with a good book running a macro as long as you aren't afk or mining more ore then you could "normally", based on the assumption that the afk part is what makes it illegal as you can not "normally" acquire goods while afk.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:53:00 - [43] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: YodaMasterJedi I say start blocking hardware MAC Addresses of the users network cards. Of these computers they use, how many have built in NIC's in the motherboard? Renders that NIC and motherboard useless to connect to Eve. It's not like it's impossible to spoof a MAC address. Exactly. Many NIC's these days will actually let you set the MAC to whatever you like, as will most DSL modems, routers etc. You can do anything. But you can't do everything.
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:55:00 - [44] cool. I hope it will stop pointless threads about macro miners
Kurren	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Driven Get caught macro-mining should = death penalty - no second chances. OR Make them join a player corp and don't let them undock till they do. Make their names public and they'll have so many war decs they'll never undock again anyways. I dig that!! a big ass macro corp that is ALWAYS at war with EVERYBODY!!eleven! Put bounties on their heads too so you can re-buy all the ammo you had to waist their asses with!
Matthew	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:56:00 - [46] Originally by: Summersnow Since mining is and always will be at a set fixed rate based on laser speed an nothing a macro can do will ever improve that rate no ones breaking the rules as written here. But under normal play, the mining lasers would stop as soon as your hold was full. These macros mean you can walk away and leave your handful of accounts there, and they'll mine the entire belt, and haul it into the station. The first gives you 1 cargo hold full, for zero attended play. The other gives you every roid in range. Entire belt > 1 cargo hold full. Therefore the macro user has gained an advantage. You can do anything. But you can't do everything.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:56:00 - [47] Originally by: Lord WarATron At last, the Price of trit can raise over 3. (But not over 3.6, since you can make money by buying shuttles from NPC's and recycling them) False, the cheapest NPC trit source is Coupling Arrays, which yield a bit over 800K trit and 80 Megacyte and I think a few bits of Isogen, and cost 2.5m each. Bringing the cost of trit to around 2.1/ipu - 2.4/ipu depending on how you value the Megacyte for. Also, Coupling arrays are 4km3. Try stuffing 800K of trit in a 3.9Km3 giant can...you can only fit 390K. Get the word out, and say NO to inflation
Kurren	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Summersnow Edited by: Summersnow on 15/09/2005 18:35:35 Edited by: Summersnow on 15/09/2005 18:34:53 Originally by: Slaveabuser They shouldnt get warned. They should all be banned. Ban them....bann them all in the face! I can think of a LOT of things that deserve a banning that are perfectly legal in game far more then some poor newb buying 100 mil isk online to get a battleship not knowing it was a eula violation. This is about CHEATING... not about gettin your noob ass podded and being ****ed about it... Eve is a real world with real options, but it's also a game... everyone should be playing on the same field, not cheating to get ahead...
Cerberal	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:04:00 - [49] Quick, everyone buy battleships at lowest possible price, wait about a month when macro miners are gone, and SELL SELL SELL! ive been stockpiling ships just for such an occasion...
Phoenix Mulderdart	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:20:00 - [50] How about this... Why not just set their sec status to -10 and let the players do the killing. Keep taking their cash from their credit cards and let a load of people that wouldn't normally get the chance to PVP gain some experience.
Hopey	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:21:00 - [51] boy, i love how this game is run :D ban them all! ban the IP's they are logged in from, and ban the credit card they're paying with! won't stop them for long, but it'll frustrate the hell out of them, and that's enough for me! \|~~~~~~~~~~~~~\| Hopey \|L.O.S.T. Foundation ~~~~\|
Pesky LaRue	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Eris Discordia Originally by: Hydrocarbon Keep banning the sellers, as many as you can and as fast as you can...but you won't kill the problem until you ban the buyers. Those also get warned and banned if there is a trace to them, please do not understimate the GM's they are remarkably resourceful. great news! Pesky LaRue Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Pesky LaRue	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Phoenix Mulderdart How about this... Why not just set their sec status to -10 and let the players do the killing. Keep taking their cash from their credit cards and let a load of people that wouldn't normally get the chance to PVP gain some experience. ha, i LOVE this idea! Pesky LaRue Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Basileus	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:34:00 - [54] Quote: If we find that a player contesting his ban is only trying to bluff his way out of it, we will lengthen the ban. If it's your first offence, the ban will be doubled. If it's your second macroing conviction and you try to lie your way out of it, we will reward you with a permanent ban. Errr...did I read this correctly in the player news?! They actually admit that financial gain determines CCP's ban policy. Why not award macro-ers with a permanent ban to start with? Macro-ing undermines the Eve economy like nothing else does. But wait! Macro-ers also hold quite a few accounts. Ergo, CCP don't want to lose their ca$h, and don't care if the game suffers as a result. If you want to grow and prosper as a MMORG, you have to keep the game clean, am I not right? Who wants to play a game with cheaters? CCP, shame on you!
Magnum VII	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:38:00 - [55] Good job, I'm happy with your success, thanks. To the Macroer's, you guys a fun to hate in the game but it is best you just leave. And don't get upset if someone blows you up or bumbs you in the game, what the hell do you expect?
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:42:00 - [56] Originally by: Phoenix Mulderdart How about this... Why not just set their sec status to -10 and let the players do the killing. Keep taking their cash from their credit cards and let a load of people that wouldn't normally get the chance to PVP gain some experience. Loving this idea. Maybe drop system-wide warp-to beacons next to them as well?
Jiggy	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:48:00 - [57] Woo 100 accounts banned in 28 months, good work! Makes up for 20+ petitions I've made about macro miners, with no results whatsoever.
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:53:00 - [58] I wonder if any of the mining BS we keep killing in 0.0 that sit there sucking on Ark whilst you shoot at them them (and then the entire system logs off when one goes down) got banned Originally by: James Lyrus Complaining about PvP & Pirates in EVE is like complaining about the mines in minesweeper.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:58:00 - [59] Originally by: Jiggy Woo 100 accounts banned in 28 months, good work! Makes up for 20+ petitions I've made about macro miners, with no results whatsoever. They banned another very large network a few months back. Also, 100 accounts is a pretty large chunk. Add to ti the macroers we don't hear about it..yes, I'd say they're doing alright. It takes a lot of work to trap macroers fairly.
Jaderpop	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:09:00 - [60] Jaderpop salutes thee CCP

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