This is the last weekend of the CSM8 elections if you don't vote you are effectively the reason those that did vote will have more say then you did will. With the way game mechanics forces those in NULL to have to organize to survive means they'll have an overwelming organizational advatage even though the majority of Eve does live in HI SEC, then NULL then LO SEC then WH's ( I'm not sure but WH population may be overtaking lo soon if things continue) .

Voter apathy is part & parcel to the game mainly due to mechanics which naturally fragment the largest populations of EVE but still it doesn't have to mean CSM's votes have to only garner >20% of the electorate to vote. Do yourself a favor & vote even if its only for 1 or 2 slots & not the whole 14 slate.

That soapbox you're standing on looks pretty worn out and ragged, fyi

This is the last weekend of the CSM8 elections if you don't vote you are effectively the reason those that did vote will have more say then you did will. With the way game mechanics forces those in NULL to have to organize to survive means they'll have an overwelming organizational advatage even though the majority of Eve does live in HI SEC, then NULL then LO SEC then WH's ( I'm not sure but WH population may be overtaking lo soon if trends continue, guess we'll see what Dr E says @ Fanfest if the demographics are still the same or WH's have overtaken lo population after the FW nerf) .

Voter apathy is part & parcel to the game mainly due to mechanics which naturally fragment the largest populations of EVE but still it doesn't have to mean CSM's votes have to only garner >20% of the electorate to vote. Do yourself a favor & vote even if its only for 1 or 2 slots & not the whole 14 slate.

And you expect yelling at the people who already read the forums is going to improve voter turnout, why?

And that's bad because CCP blindly follows through with whatever the CSM proposes, no matter how one sided, biased and imbalanced it may be.

This is the last weekend of the CSM8 elections if you don't vote you are effectively the reason those that did vote will have more say then you did will. With the way game mechanics forces those in NULL to have to organize to survive means they'll have an overwelming organizational advatage even though the majority of Eve does live in HI SEC, then NULL then LO SEC then WH's ( I'm not sure but WH population may be overtaking lo soon if trends continue, guess we'll see what Dr E says @ Fanfest if the demographics are still the same or WH's have overtaken lo population after the FW nerf) .

Voter apathy is part & parcel to the game mainly due to mechanics which naturally fragment the largest populations of EVE but still it doesn't have to mean CSM's votes have to only garner <20% of the electorate to vote. Do yourself a favor & vote even if its only for 1 or 2 slots & not the whole 14 slate.

Null needs representation at the moment. I don't live there and even I can see that. Hell I'm a "carebear" and I can see that.

Because he's BATMAN !

NULL has had overwelming representation the past 3 CSM's.... why's it now different then the last 3 years? It sure didn't save us from Incarna

Nananananannananananananananananana!




The CSM not being able to stop something that was not disclosed to them is evidence of... what, exactly?

While I agree with your general premise, not voting is voting for null, I disagree with your statement that GÇ£the majority of EVE lives in highsecGÇ¥.
I know this has been bandied around this forum for a long time, but I just donGÇÖt see it. Sure, I think the majority of characters are in hi sec. but given what I see in my own corp and from the people I talk to here, a huge percentage of the characters in hi sec are null and lowsec alts.

I have 5 chars across 2 accounts. 2 of them are in Null in TRIBE. The rest are in high sec. Does that make me a highsec player even tho both my mains live in null?

This is the last weekend of the CSM8 elections if you don't vote you are effectively the reason those that did vote will have more say then you did will. With the way game mechanics forces those in NULL to have to organize to survive means they'll have an overwelming organizational advatage even though the majority of Eve does live in HI SEC, then NULL then LO SEC then WH's ( I'm not sure but WH population may be overtaking lo soon if trends continue, guess we'll see what Dr E says @ Fanfest if the demographics are still the same or WH's have overtaken lo population after the FW nerf) .

Voter apathy is part & parcel to the game mainly due to mechanics which naturally fragment the largest populations of EVE but still it doesn't have to mean CSM's votes have to only garner <20% of the electorate to vote. Do yourself a favor & vote even if its only for 1 or 2 slots & not the whole 14 slate.

Darth is absolutely correct. Whenever you read a post from someone trying to persaude you not to vote, as yourself:

Who benefits if you don't vote?

NULL has had overwelming representation the past 3 CSM's.... why's it now different then the last 3 years ( or does NULL need more representation every moment?) ? It sure didn't save us from Incarna

Darth is absolutely correct. Whenever you read a post from someone trying to persaude you not to vote, as yourself:

Who benefits if you don't vote?

You'd be better off spamming local in Empire than yet another thread telling people to vote. It's all the carebears that don't even visit the forum that you should be looking to convince.

I'm batman :D... It was not disclosed???? & you got that from which NDA breaker

part of me hopes they don't vote. have you noticed most of the dumb ideas that pop up on the forums are from high sec players and/or npc alts?

not that null sec players don't occasionally come up with stupid ideas, but not so nearly as frequently as high sec players.

Last I checked, CSM 5 was the one that made us go "hey, wait a minute, this is bullshit" and get involved, because that CSM was making recommendations for changes which were made from ignorance on how nullsec works, and which were actively detrimental to nullsec.

Dude, your eye.

That's mainly because they use their high-sec alts and npc-corp alts to post them, lest they reflect badly on their image in the alliance hierarchy.

That's mainly because they use their high-sec alts and npc-corp alts to post them, lest they reflect badly on their image in the alliance hierarchy.

When was the Incarna project started?

(Hint, not during the last 3 CSMs)

Oh and CSM 5 was hardly "overwhelmingly nullsec".

Oh, I almost forgot: and yet I want CCP to perform some tweaks (or as some tryhard sperg'll loudly whine about if given half a chance, nerfs, which will KILL HISEC/THE GAME (because, of course, any nerf to hisec will kill hisec/the game)) to hisec to pave the way for much more interesting gameplay changes in null.

And let's not forget the sov system. And the POS reaction UI.

We need a badge for the forums for people who don't vote, so we can get a year telling them "STFU, this is your fault. You didn't vote"

This is the last weekend of the CSM8 elections if you don't vote you are effectively the reason those that did vote will have more say then you did will. With the way game mechanics forces those in NULL to have to organize to survive means they'll have an overwelming organizational advatage even though the majority of Eve does live in HI SEC, then NULL then LO SEC then WH's ( I'm not sure but WH population may be overtaking lo soon if trends continue, guess we'll see what Dr E says @ Fanfest if the demographics are still the same or WH's have overtaken lo population after the FW nerf) .

Voter apathy is part & parcel to the game mainly due to mechanics which naturally fragment the largest populations of EVE but still it doesn't have to mean CSM's votes have to only garner <20% of the electorate to vote. Do yourself a favor & vote even if its only for 1 or 2 slots & not the whole 14 slate.

Lets face it: NOT VOTING IN CSM8 IS A VOTE FOR NULL SEC BLOCKS.

Made me giggle :)

Unless somehow a large % of Eve players first bothered to visit these forums, then bothered to read your post, then bothered to read all about the CSM to see what its all about, then bothered to read up on each candidate and then finally decide to vote, it still most likely still wont make any difference and those who have alliance backing will still get their seat on the CSM

They always have and always will.

I am confused. Where does that leave me?

I voted and one of my choices was Malcanis and another was a member of the Goonswarm Federation.

Obviously I am evil for voting for someone from the null sec block, especially the demonic Goonswarm, but would I have been less evil if I hadn't voted?

I am confused. Where does that leave me?

I voted and one of my choices was Malcanis and another was a member of the Goonswarm Federation.

Obviously I am evil for voting for someone from the null sec block, especially the demonic Goonswarm, but would I have been less evil if I hadn't voted?

Yes, your soul will burn in hell for all eternity but your eternal punishment will be less than what the apathetic get.

Thank you for voting.

If I am going to hell, I would prefer to get there on my own merits... or lack thereof.

Voting for null sec candidates doesn't mean bad things will happen, it actually means you're voting for people with a keen understand of game mechanics and will stop CCP doing bad things and hopefully get them to do good things like POS revision, income changes, ship balancing etc. Things that affect all areas of EVE.

You guys should take off the tin foil hats and look at the candidates objectively and realise that historically speaking, apart from Darius III, null sec block candidates on the CSM have been a positive influence.

It is a well known fact that Null CSM candidates sacrifice virgins at every Summit.

Voting for null sec candidates doesn't mean bad things will happen, it actually means you're voting for people with a keen understand of game mechanics and will stop CCP doing bad things and hopefully get them to do good things like POS revision, income changes, ship balancing etc. Things that affect all areas of EVE.

You guys should take off the tin foil hats and look at the candidates objectively and realise that historically speaking, apart from Darius III, null sec block candidates on the CSM have been a positive influence.

i think people underestimate some of the null sec candidates.

[quote=knobber Jobbler]


Besides this Null sec candidates would have to propose buffs to Hi-sec for the next 10 years just to make up for
Darius III.

It might be better to say that the nullsec people who were in CSM 5 had a different vision of sov 0.0

Luckily, the political meta has advanced somewhat since then.

Null needs representation at the moment. I don't live there and even I can see that. Hell I'm a "carebear" and I can see that.

(snip)

Anyway yes, as I recently blogged (along with Poetic and James315 yesterday coincidentaly - fools seldom differ?) CCP's promotional push for this year's election has been a joke. I expected much, much more after what Dolan and Fozzie both promised me in recent weeks on CZ podcasts.

TBH I like a few of the NULL SEC candidates... but I do feel like the system's rigged like the old Chicago political manchine where I see some carpet bagger Alderman representing my district in Southside Projects yet he lives in Barrington Hills.

Also the best way to stick it to the ~nullbears~ is to vote for Frying Doom's list, which totally doesn't have the five wormhole bloc candidates on top

Sorry about your hisec, bro.

This is the year we take it all, so enjoy it while you can. I suggest arranging for your future nullsec serfdom now, as the terms will be a lot worse when the hammer falls and the mass exodus of carebears from the wastelands of nerfed hisec begins.

[How is it rigged?

Bots -> RMT -> Bribery.

Next?

It's even totally anonymous, with no possibility of confirming who someone voted for (the receipt page doesn't mention who you voted for, just that you did vote), so bribery or intimidation aren't particularly useful.

video game drama! dun dun dun.... I voted for floppy. So you can shut your mouth Darthwhinesalot

this!

but I do feel like the system's rigged

The whole post matters.


Also, this.

How is it rigged? One account, one vote. It's even totally anonymous, with no possibility of confirming who someone voted for (the receipt page doesn't mention who you voted for, just that you did vote), so bribery or intimidation aren't particularly useful.

Oh, right. "The people I don't like are able to gather more votes than the people I do like" means the election is rigged. Forgot about that.

The last CSM had the most horrible ideas written down in some document they supported unanimously. Luckily CCP so far has ignored them. Right now when the CSM claims to represent the playerbase, they are making themselves look even more stupid as only a vast minority of players vote. I am proud to be a member of the non-voting majority.

The CSM election is rigged in favour of people who vote.

The last CSM had the most horrible ideas written down in some document they supported unanimously.

TBH I like a few of the NULL SEC candidates... but I do feel like the system's rigged like the old Chicago political manchine where I see some carpet bagger Alderman representing my district in Southside Projects yet he lives in Barrington Hills.

And you expect yelling at the people who already read the forums is going to improve voter turnout, why?

Have you seen the number of posters that say: "I don't want to vote for null-sec so I won't vote" or "I don't believe in the system so I won't vote - but give me WiS/FW/POS/PI/whatever or EVE will die" or something fairly similar?

They don't understand how voting works

Of course, this comment probably means I don't understand how their apathy / lack of interest works.

Which ideas were these?

What were the ideas?

Why do a bunch of robots need repesentation?

Why do a bunch of robots need repesentation?

31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the wellbeing and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.

Why do a bunch of robots need repesentation?

I don't know why but the NULL bots will probably have it come CSM8

Why do a bunch of robots need repesentation?

At least the "robots" of null have the programming to go vote for their interests

Voter apathy is part & parcel to the game mainly due to mechanics

Voter apathy is because voting is for suckers.

More like not voting is for slackers

I dint vote because it would take everyone together in CMS to make right things happen so i let the dice roll with out the regret of choosing wrong rep.

In order to engage the general population, CCP needs to understand their customer.......

All CCP has to do is create an ingame voting interface, in stations, and they would triple the involvement in the voting process.

I understand your argument, but I lean towards not changing my opinion - i.e. the CSM doesn't fit ingame. The CSM sits in the meta-game, channeling stuff into EVE and out from EVE.

Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.

I suppose even mentioning the words "T20" and "Aurora" counts as "rumor mongering" too? Might want to send your people to edit that wikipedia article then. Oh and be sure to send people in to burn down Kug's blog and stuff, too.

hurr durr the voting is rigged band of developers 420 erryday

So in another words you didn't vote for fear of making the wrong decision.

Just don't complain if the dice roll, ends up being what you don't want.

you misinterpreted it wrong, I do not fear making wrong decision but each one has very little to bring to the table in terms what they cover as potential improvement, why you ask?
all the candidates would have to put heir heads together for this to wok right, therefore, " i let the dice roll with out the regret of choosing wrong rep"

you misinterpreted it wrong, I do not fear making wrong decision but each one has very little to bring to the table in terms what they cover as potential improvement, why you ask?
all the candidates would have to put heir heads together for this to wok right, therefore, " i let the dice roll with out the regret of choosing wrong rep"

Threads like this are the reason I'd rather have null blocks represented instead of these goofs.

I use to bother voting, but anymore the CSM is a joke. It's just another thing the "elites" retain for themselves, and forever deny to anyone else.

No different than politics / politicians in real life...

I use to bother voting, but anymore the CSM is a joke. It's just another thing the "elites" retain for themselves, and forever deny to anyone else.

No different than politics / politicians in real life...

Threads like this are the reason I'd rather have null blocks represented instead of these goofs.

But, but suicide gankers and New Order bumpers ruin my fun! They're exploiting and being mean!

So really what do you want from the CSM? High sec needs to be even safer? You can already afk to choke your chicken while afk mining with literally zero threat of losing your ship. You want better profits? Highsec is the most rewarding area to mine in regardless of safety. You don't need representation because you already have everything you could want. What you need is to have some of it taken from you because hisec is a boring cesspit because of its borderline hedonistic luxury.

its a popularity contest

That is how democracy works. The guy/gal with the most popular ideas money/ISK wins.

FIXED
Thats why in another thread I am just giving out bribes to vote

Who does paying people to vote for literally anyone help win?

you say that like the ~elites~ are the only ones able to vote.

perhaps if you went and voted they wouldn't have the CSM all to themselves.
stop complaining about a "problem", when you're part of it.

More like not voting is for slackers

No, democracy is a bad joke on the intelligent.

A guy I know voted today. 10 accounts. He spent 30 seconds looking at the candidate names. He picked 3. He still knows nothing about any of them, any of their platforms, or any of the issues.

Viva la democracie!

Then that guy is an idiot. He will probably whine at the littlest thing.

I voted Mynnna 5x

solely Mynnna 5x

I love underdogs

It's very hard to compete with block voting, when the personality cults fuel their mindless drones with bread and circuses, and instruct them in who they should vote for.

It's very hard to compete with block voting, when the personality cults fuel their mindless drones with bread and circuses, and instruct them in who they should vote for.

... waits for the wooden stake to be driven through the heart of voter apathy....

It's very easy to compete with block voting (called, in most democracies, "Political Parties"). Just have more voters than they have.

It's only hard to compete with them if you have fewer voters that disagree with their platform than they have voters who agree with their platform. Which is, uh, kind of the basic premise of Democracy...

It's very hard to compete with block voting, when the personality cults fuel their mindless drones with bread and circuses, and instruct them in who they should vote for.

or if wood stake was plunged into HI SEC represtentation?

Would you rather have a person who's main is in hisec but an obvious moron than an outright goon who appears to be a quite useful member to the group?

I'm a hisec carbear, but I had Goons on my tab.

Because I don't worry about how they play, I based my votes on how I read the people behind the icons, which is the ones that will talk for us.

"Useful" is a matter of opinion... Lenin called the populace "useful idiots", ever consider that your precious goons might think the same of you and your vote?

Voting link: http://bit.ly/vote-ripard
This is the last weekend of the CSM8 elections if you don't vote you are effectively the reason those that did vote will have more say then you did will. With the way game mechanics forces those in NULL to have to organize to survive means they'll have an overwelming organizational advatage even though the majority of Eve does live in HI SEC, then NULL then LO SEC then WH's ( I'm not sure but WH population may be overtaking lo soon if trends continue, guess we'll see what Dr E says @ Fanfest if the demographics are still the same or WH's have overtaken lo population after the FW nerf) .

Voter apathy is part & parcel to the game mainly due to mechanics which naturally fragment the largest populations of EVE but still it doesn't have to mean CSM's votes have to only garner <20% of the electorate to vote. Do yourself a favor & vote even if its only for 1 or 2 slots & not the whole 14 slate.

Well, i woted long ago. Although of course it won't change the course of the game.

Oh yes, because everyone loves real life politics, right? Parties are not the solution, people hate political parties, myself included.

The solution requires equal representation for the divisions (Yes, there are divisions...) in the Eve population. As of now, the CSM is not a fair system of representation. Why? Because the divisions within the Eve population are not represented equally. Each division deserves equal representation, regardless of how those divisions are drawn, whether divided by population, geography, security level, or political differentiation.

Until such a time, as the non-nullsec inhabitants receive fair representation, and do not have to compete with block voting personality cults, the incessant disparities will continue to exist. Not everyone within highsec is apathetic or a macro-miner, some of us simply refuse to live under the whims of a sociopath with maniacal fantasies.

No, because you obviously link in-game behaviour to out of game experience.

The CSM doesn't have any power within CCP, if they are cute they're PR, and they are nasty they're PR, if they are idiots they're hidden and forgotten.

But if they actually have the cerebral capacity to help CCP they are useful.

CCP is more aware on who's paying their salaries than anyone outside the company, they don't need any elected body to tell them how we play the game.

They know exactly how we play the game, they know exactly who's paying their salaries.

The CSM is supposed to be a sounding board and a group that can help CCP making the game better.

Voting for a ****** mouth breather who might share my style of playing isn't going to help me getting a better game.

Adding a vote for someone who appears to be a good member of the CSM, regardless of in-game connections, seemed a better move.

I'm sorry but there's no voting system that's going to work around the problem of not voting.

I disagree.

Well. I'm a casual player. Not in a bad way. I'm a mature man that doing business in RL. I don't have(want) to spend too much energy and time for the game. I like such easy things as highsec mining... Souds weird? Yep, the players like me always will be the ones to left behind, no matter what and how many ppl voted.

And that's bad because CCP blindly follows through with whatever the CSM proposes, no matter how one sided, biased and imbalanced it may be.

I'm sorry but there's no voting system that's going to work around the problem of not voting.

Compulsory sufferage is one system although you'll get a few peeps that get around that like they do in Australia

And that's the way it should be.

You can unsub from Australian elections? Neat! How'd they work that?