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HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:43:00 - [1] from the MK2 thread Originally by: Tuxford Thorax * Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 * Poweroutput increased to 850MW its finally be done. what do ppl feel about this? is it the death of the cruiser again? does the new grid make up for it? please don't lock this one, its got a sensible title
Palx	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:45:00 - [2] I can finally fit med guns. Guns > Drones IMO
siim	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:45:00 - [3] It wont be so ³ber anymore wich is cool
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:49:00 - [4] It will be just fine. It's a smaller megathron, and like the megathron it's focus is more on guns rather than attempting to be like a mini dominix (the vexor) and think that they can have their cake and eat it too. ------------
Layrex	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:51:00 - [5] It's still too strong compared to other cruisers. ------------------------------
Deka Kador	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:52:00 - [6] Anyone with half a brain could tell it was a slightly overpowered ship by the sheer numbers being used in PvP. Losing 4 drones isn't that much of a loss of DPS compared to what you can fit with the added PG
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:52:00 - [7] Well, like the maulus it does need to be quite a bit stronger against other cruisers. It is a tier 3 cruiser after all, and just like I wouldn't expect an atron to stand up against an incursus/tristan I don't expect a tier 1 or 2 cruiser to be nearly as good as a tier 3 cruiser. ------------
EvilDoomer	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:54:00 - [8] Originally by: HippoKing from the MK2 thread Originally by: Tuxford Thorax * Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 * Poweroutput increased to 850MW its finally be done. what do ppl feel about this? is it the death of the cruiser again? does the new grid make up for it? please don't lock this one, its got a sensible title Another Nerf to a great Ship. WHY kill the drones. Shame Thanks EvilDoomer Chicago Mobsters
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:54:00 - [9] Quote: WHY kill the drones. Because it isn't a drone cruiser, the vexor is. ------------
Garreck	Posted - 2005.09.15 18:56:00 - [10] Edited by: Garreck on 15/09/2005 18:57:20 Originally by: Guardian Alpha Quote: WHY kill the drones. Because it isn't a drone cruiser, the vexor is. Oh really? You mentioned in the thread that just got locked something about "reading ship descriptions." I suggest you read the thorax ship description and the vexor ship description. I would point particularly to the thorax description where it says "While the Thorax is a very effective ship at any range, typical of modern Gallente design philosophy it is most effective when working at extreme close range where it's blasters and hordes of combat drones tear through even the toughest of enemies." Where the vexor only says that it's a good mid-range vessel. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.

Blind Man	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:00:00 - [11] YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS etc
MinerMan IX	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:05:00 - [12] HAPPYNESS :D
Okoru	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:06:00 - [13] I, I can fit guns! Oh dang! I can fit guns on it!!! --- What I say has nothing to do with my corp.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:08:00 - [14] It should have recived extra slots as well.. as it has the lowest amount of slots of any Tier 3 cruisers. But well, the whiners, cry babies and carebears win this time round.. and well, i look forward to the "Whaaaa the maller is too uber posts."
Blind Man	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:10:00 - [15] rupture owns all
RabbidFerret	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Blind Man rupture owns all /agreed All your ferrets are belong to us.
NateX	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Blind Man rupture owns all ' yeah, its gonna be very good!
Sable Terrick	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:29:00 - [18] Well...now all the people saying the drone bay wasnt what made it so uber....can now have the chance to prove it. And give the extra 150 PG to the deimos.... [img http://www.djstora.co.uk/images/sableterrick.jpg /img] I know its just a game but i really wonder how many of these mouthy F*cks would have the stones to say that sort of thing in real life.
Turin	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:31:00 - [19] Whoopee!! All the uber nerf whiners win again. I personally think this change sucks. IT will destroy this ship.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Turin Whoopee!! All the uber nerf whiners win again. I personally think this change sucks. IT will destroy this ship. okay so now the vexor is better with drones (yanno the ship with the drone bonus) and the thorax becomes better as a blaster boat, while still having one of the largest drone bays for a cruiser in the game? more firepower + 100m3 of drones, ya poor thorax. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY

Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Turin Whoopee!! All the uber nerf whiners win again. I personally think this change sucks. IT will destroy this ship. okay so now the vexor is better with drones (yanno the ship with the drone bonus) and the thorax becomes better as a blaster boat, while still having one of the largest drone bays for a cruiser in the game? more firepower + 100m3 of drones, ya poor thorax. Also the lowest amount of slots of all the tier 3 cruisers.. The drone bay made up for this the new grid change doesn't.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Ravenge Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Turin Whoopee!! All the uber nerf whiners win again. I personally think this change sucks. IT will destroy this ship. okay so now the vexor is better with drones (yanno the ship with the drone bonus) and the thorax becomes better as a blaster boat, while still having one of the largest drone bays for a cruiser in the game? more firepower + 100m3 of drones, ya poor thorax. Also the lowest amount of slots of all the tier 3 cruisers.. The drone bay made up for this the new grid change doesn't. The dronebay is still huge four times the size of a Moas... the thorax has one less overall slot than a Moa, and it is still by far, superior to the Moa, even with railguns. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Saicon	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:05:00 - [23] NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! It the w a n k e r s who whined that did this. Death to whiners!!! Originally by: Necrologic This made me laugh so hard cottage cheese came out of my nose. More disturbingly, i wasn't eating cottage cheese at the time.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Saicon NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! It the w a n k e r s who whined that did this. Death to whiners!!! We asked to balance it for years Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:30:00 - [25] I fly it, the Vigilant and the Deimos. All I can say, is that it's about time. As I said elsewhere, 9-10x T2 medium drones are about 80-90% the firepower of the 8x T1 heavies we're used to. Specialize and adapt. Also, THANK GOD, I can actually fit medium weapons on the Thorax at last! T2 neutrons with nothing else fitted is still impossible without some really uber skills, and even then, I think at least 1 RCU is needed. Sounds right to me.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:40:00 - [26] Not much to say but \o/ ________________________________________________________
Tovarishch	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:41:00 - [27] I'm lost as to why it's even getting a boost to powergrid while still maintaining one of the largest drone bays for a cruiser in the game. It's still going to be one of the strongest cruisers around.
Slater Dogstar	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:47:00 - [28] I seriusly doubt this will kil the Thorax, ok the dronebay is smaller but with the extra powergrid it will make fitting things easier for all. Every Time You Use A Warp Stab Ovyer Kills A Puppy!!!
keepiru	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:58:00 - [29] Well... yeah. \o/ Ive always had the feeling that the 'rax was a wierd ship: underpowered hull (so damn hard to fit its proper sized guns) but overpowered in the drones - the hint was the bigger bay than the dedicated drone cruiser. Well, the issues gone back and forth, ive been attacked by militant rax pilots blinded by rage - hey, i fly one too... I suspect t2 drones and the ludicrous dps a rax can get with that simply precipitated CCP into finally doing somthing about it. I just hope they dont listen to the militants and fall back on it again. Considering their relative abilities and strenghts, and how much pg is used by the relative guns, i think the tier-3 cruisers are fairly well balanced as of MK2 project in effect. I am still concerned about the Moa... sniping cruisers with that little firepower are a bit situation-nerfed with the current trends of game mechanics... It remains to be seen how hard it is to fit a nice rack of guns on it. Fitting the largets rails is far more important on it than the other cruisers, as it has less turrets, without a damage bonus, and we all know unlike lasers rails are "balanced" for 1 ship damage bonus. That coupled with the lowest amount of low slots in all tier-3 cruisers conspire to make it an unexciting ship as far as damage is concerned, while still maintaining the class weaknesses of cruisers. Possibly an extra slot is needed (mid/low)? Still, i can now see a use for it in npc'ing, if not for pvp. Getting back to the thorax, I think it might be the case to take a look at its cpu as well. Hybrid guns use comparatively more cpu than other turrets, and the megathron and brutix share a tendency to run out of cpu while fitting. I only need to point out the recent threads on the (relative) uneffectiveness of t2 guns on blasterthrons because of cpu issues crippling the setup. In order for the T-Rax to remain fully competitive with the other cruisers now it doesent have the incredible drone advantage, it should have the cpu its newly boosted powergrid needs to be used to its full ability. ------------- Axe the Thorax's drone bay.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:09:00 - [30] before more changes to the moa, i would like to see how the resists bonus affects it. i like that bonus

keepiru	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:30:00 - [31] Originally by: HippoKing before more changes to the moa, i would like to see how the resists bonus affects it. i like that bonus Oh dont get me wrong, so do i. Seems like CCP like it too... heh, punisher with 5% on armor resist will have silly tank. Still considering its damage hasnt changed (id still use 4x 250mm and 2x assault on it) im concerned thats its simply not enough to bring it up to par with the other, now turret-boosted tier-3 cruisers. Its true that as a sniper it doesent (in theory) need as much damage for its specific role... but the reality is that if youre doing poo damage all that extra range wont helps you stay alive, or kill the enemy before he warps off. Youd be much better off using one of the other tier-3 cruisers, in a sniping configuration. ------------- Axe the Thorax's drone bay.
Ttboy404	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:49:00 - [32] Hi, I am a casual player, and have started playing while I baby sit kids. I am neither a teenager nor an avid player. I am new to online gamming in general. Specifically, I am still learning the whole drone thing now, and have a Rax, but not enough skills for the new change alter my game play. Actually, I am so happy I have spent the last few WEEKS TO MONTHS getting skill up to Level 4 and 5 just to barely fit guns of the appropriate size, i just don't know what to say. I have to say this, this 'nerfing' as it is called, is about the equivalent to ordering a meal, paying for the meal, and then while you are in the middle of eating it, the restaurant owner picks it up, shrugs his shoulders, and walks away with your food. This 'nerfing' is just rude if you ask me. To have to 'nerf' strikes me, to say the least, as completely poor insight, when you let the inequality go live in the game for some period of time. You allowed the imbalance for a protracted period of time. Then change it after how long??? You have developed the game in the first place. Come on, this nerfing is just pathetic. From my limited experiences with online gaming, why do you choose the degree that you do? I am sure that a reduction of a 1/3 the drone bay, and maybe one third to one half the power grid upgrade would have gone over better. Or maybe change all new ones from a certain date, and leave the older one alone. I am sure there must be some other way to balance these games besides 'nerfing'. Balance by off setting the others, not 'nerfing'. Thanks
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:54:00 - [33] Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 15/09/2005 21:54:20 Needed it tbh. Originally by: HippoKing YES! i am in antoher person;s sig /marks it off taking over the world one sig at a time \o/ DPS Sheet
madaluap	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:59:00 - [34] Originally by: HippoKing from the MK2 thread Originally by: Tuxford Thorax * Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 * Poweroutput increased to 850MW its finally be done. what do ppl feel about this? is it the death of the cruiser again? does the new grid make up for it? please don't lock this one, its got a sensible title exelent, now i can fly thorax without feeling like im doing lvl 4 missions in a pre-nerfed raven. lets fit this baby up with electron 2 and maybe ion if ccp gives med blasters some love.
Techyon	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:04:00 - [35] Finally they've done it.. was about time ------
sableye	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:09:00 - [36] Edited by: sableye on 15/09/2005 22:10:35 Edited by: sableye on 15/09/2005 22:09:11 that extra grid is going to count for very little its still to hard to fit the cruiser guns the thorax also has lots fo cpu problems, great way to nerf the only half decent cruiser left, the thorax also has less slots than any other tier 3 cruiser.
Snubfighter	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Ttboy404 Hi, I am a casual player, and have started playing while I baby sit kids. I am neither a teenager nor an avid player. I am new to online gamming in general. Specifically, I am still learning the whole drone thing now, and have a Rax, but not enough skills for the new change alter my game play. Actually, I am so happy I have spent the last few WEEKS TO MONTHS getting skill up to Level 4 and 5 just to barely fit guns of the appropriate size, i just don't know what to say. I have to say this, this 'nerfing' as it is called, is about the equivalent to ordering a meal, paying for the meal, and then while you are in the middle of eating it, the restaurant owner picks it up, shrugs his shoulders, and walks away with your food. This 'nerfing' is just rude if you ask me. To have to 'nerf' strikes me, to say the least, as completely poor insight, when you let the inequality go live in the game for some period of time. You allowed the imbalance for a protracted period of time. Then change it after how long??? You have developed the game in the first place. Come on, this nerfing is just pathetic. From my limited experiences with online gaming, why do you choose the degree that you do? I am sure that a reduction of a 1/3 the drone bay, and maybe one third to one half the power grid upgrade would have gone over better. Or maybe change all new ones from a certain date, and leave the older one alone. I am sure there must be some other way to balance these games besides 'nerfing'. Balance by off setting the others, not 'nerfing'. Thanks You don't take into account how many changes are made to the game over a period of time. Nothing starts perfect, with time and change new variables and new data becomes part of the balancing act and action is taken at times when resources may be devoted to it or when it is deemed fit. It's not rude, it's just part of all MMO games.
slothe	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:24:00 - [38] Edited by: slothe on 15/09/2005 22:28:34
crom ralphfao	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:28:00 - [39] well, for those who whine and cry for these nerfs, i have a quote....... "awwww, cant get your ship out" so whats next? i suppose the next ship that splits your hull will be tomorrow's nerf target. maybe if you cry loud enough we can take away the diversity of gameplay that makes this game unique among all the mmorpg's out there. there is nothing wrong with one race having advantages in one aspect of gameplay over another.......makes the galaxy interesting. but oh well, i got used to this in SWG......catering to the sqeakers has never been my favorite dev response. i prefer a challenge in gameplay and appreciate wins in an unbalanced fight where i am the underdog. i would have voted to introduce new features or upgrades to other ships than castrate existing technology.
Chuck Sausage	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:37:00 - [40] I assume the powergrid increase will also apply to the VIGILANT? This might actually make it better than the Thorax?

j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:37:00 - [41] "before more changes to the moa, i would like to see how the resists bonus affects it. i like that bonus " Likely won't affect it much. 5k armour tank with all meds left for offensive vs sh.tty shield tank you can cram in 2 slots + half low slots used for grid enhancers to fit rack of medium weapons. Such hard fitting choice, really... :/
slothe	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:40:00 - [42] Originally by: Chuck Sausage I assume the powergrid increase will also apply to the VIGILANT? This might actually make it better than the Thorax? fecking hope so i just bought a load :D btw wheres the original post?
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:41:00 - [43] "btw wheres the original post?" It's teh new sticky: tech 1 ship overhaul -.o
sableye	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:41:00 - [44] Edited by: sableye on 15/09/2005 22:41:01 posted in wrong thread...
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:47:00 - [45] Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 15/09/2005 22:28:24 that extra grid is going to count for very little its still to hard to fit the cruiser guns the thorax also has lots fo cpu problems, great way to nerf the only half decent cruiser left, the thorax also has less slots than any other tier 3 cruiser. the thorax also has one of the smallest cargo bays around which means you can't carry hardly any ammo. New Thorax: 850 Grid/300cpu Deimos: 860 grid/330cpu And the Thorax doesn't even have a utility slot to tempt you with putting in a Medium Nosferatu... Proud member of Elite Academy.
sableye	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:48:00 - [46] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 15/09/2005 22:28:24 that extra grid is going to count for very little its still to hard to fit the cruiser guns the thorax also has lots fo cpu problems, great way to nerf the only half decent cruiser left, the thorax also has less slots than any other tier 3 cruiser. the thorax also has one of the smallest cargo bays around which means you can't carry hardly any ammo. New Thorax: 850 Grid/300cpu Deimos: 860 grid/330cpu And the Thorax doesn't even have a utility slot to tempt you with putting in a Medium Nosferatu... you still have to stuff a deimos of full of rector 2's to fit 5 250 rails.
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2005.09.15 22:59:00 - [47] 150 drone bay and give the vexor the 200. ******* whiners. Its a cruiser. Cant beat the cruiser? Get a BS.
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.09.15 23:47:00 - [48] I will agree I would have liked to see the Vexor's shot in the arm be more drone space to counter the loss of it in the Thorax. Instead they boosted its other stats. Especially as the Amarr drone carrier is about to get EW.
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.09.15 23:51:00 - [49] Yeah, 2000 drone bay on the vexor wouldn't be bad at all. 4 heavy drones and 10 medium, who'd complain? Originally by: HippoKing YES! i am in antoher person;s sig /marks it off taking over the world one sig at a time \o/ DPS Sheet
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.09.15 23:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Dimitri Forgroth Yeah, 200 drone bay on the vexor wouldn't be bad at all. 4 heavy drones and 10 medium, who'd complain? Again, Arbitrator gets EW boost and an extra mid to accomodate. Vexor's loadout minus the pg/cpu boost they mean to give it would make it a drone carrier with no other bonuses.

Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.09.16 00:59:00 - [51] Originally by: sableye you still have to stuff a deimos of full of rector 2's to fit 5 250 rails. You want to put 250mm rails on something with a MWD bonus? Proud member of Elite Academy.
Death Merchant	Posted - 2005.09.16 01:01:00 - [52] I think the changes to the thorax were a cop out by the devs. As a gallente pilot.. I will adapt as usual. But I think this sets a bad example that to the community as a whole when you let a group of focused whiners force you to nerf a ship that was fine to begin with. I will now train for an arbiter until you decide to nerf that too since that is now obviously the only tech 1 cruiser based on my style of play worth flying. Since Im trying not to get banned. Ill just say that your a bunch of............................................................................................. who only...............................because..................... Everyship I fly you nerf. Its getting ..discouraging. Maybe if you would have devoted yourselves to improving the obvious problems with cruisers earlier it wouldn't have came to this.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.16 01:07:00 - [53] "You want to put 250mm rails on something with a MWD bonus?" Rails have optimal range too, quite a bit longer than other medium turrets. Helps to reduce damage done to you. The sooner you can get the other guy in that optimal, and the longer you can keep them there, the better. MWD is pretty handy when it comes to that...
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.16 01:13:00 - [54] Originally by: j0sephine "You want to put 250mm rails on something with a MWD bonus?" Rails have optimal range too, quite a bit longer than other medium turrets. Helps to reduce damage done to you. The sooner you can get the other guy in that optimal, and the longer you can keep them there, the better. MWD is pretty handy when it comes to that... I hope he doesnt try to tank his Moa with his midslots for PvP. /me points to armor tanked Blackbird/Cyclone, ahh ****, I dont Shield tank Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.16 01:16:00 - [55] "I hope he doesnt try to tank his Moa with his midslots for PvP." I cry every time i look at the armour-tanked Moa in my hangar, you really don't need to rub it in how fscked up it all is nowadays ;.;
Valexia	Posted - 2005.09.16 01:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Ttboy404 Hi, I am a casual player, and have started playing while I baby sit kids. I am neither a teenager nor an avid player. I am new to online gamming in general. Specifically, I am still learning the whole drone thing now, and have a Rax, but not enough skills for the new change alter my game play. Actually, I am so happy I have spent the last few WEEKS TO MONTHS getting skill up to Level 4 and 5 just to barely fit guns of the appropriate size, i just don't know what to say. I have to say this, this 'nerfing' as it is called, is about the equivalent to ordering a meal, paying for the meal, and then while you are in the middle of eating it, the restaurant owner picks it up, shrugs his shoulders, and walks away with your food. This 'nerfing' is just rude if you ask me. To have to 'nerf' strikes me, to say the least, as completely poor insight, when you let the inequality go live in the game for some period of time. You allowed the imbalance for a protracted period of time. Then change it after how long??? You have developed the game in the first place. Come on, this nerfing is just pathetic. From my limited experiences with online gaming, why do you choose the degree that you do? I am sure that a reduction of a 1/3 the drone bay, and maybe one third to one half the power grid upgrade would have gone over better. Or maybe change all new ones from a certain date, and leave the older one alone. I am sure there must be some other way to balance these games besides 'nerfing'. Balance by off setting the others, not 'nerfing'. Thanks "I'm a babysitter with no concept of what a MMOG is." I say good; nerfs aren't always good, but to the dumb**s who say "NERFS R ALWAYS BAD", quit the idealistic hippie bull** and smell the coffee.
Spleef	Posted - 2005.09.16 01:43:00 - [57] I posted on the other thread, but im shocked at how quickly and drastically a nerf can come about from just a few whining threads. Clearly a precedent has been set. Identify a race specific difference between your ship and those others fly, and whine for it to be nerfed so that all ships end up roughly the same. I'll leave it at that, i'm in shock..
Tovarishch	Posted - 2005.09.16 02:04:00 - [58] To those folks crying a river about how the Devs listen to people crying for a nerf... 1. If the Devs didn't listen and kept everything as it is then people would cry about how the Devs don't ever listen to players. People will always find something to cry about. 2. Perhaps the ships truly need balancing... and people mentioning it on the forums simply brought it to light. I seriously doubt that players whining would ever get a ship nerfed that didn't need it.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.09.16 02:18:00 - [59] Originally by: Spleef I posted on the other thread, but im shocked at how quickly and drastically a nerf can come about from just a few whining threads. Clearly a precedent has been set. Identify a race specific difference between your ship and those others fly, and whine for it to be nerfed so that all ships end up roughly the same. I'll leave it at that, i'm in shock.. Perhaps I wasn't clear from the first time.. The Thorax is 1 low, 1 utility high, and one ship damage bonus away from the highest damaging HAC in the game. Think about that for a second. Proud member of Elite Academy.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.09.16 03:00:00 - [60] Thorax might be worth checking out now. I love gunships. ~Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss

Trepkos	Posted - 2005.09.16 03:10:00 - [61] I wont stop till I kill everyone of you ****ing whiners. FFS! Why dont you STFU and play the game you whining little spoiled brats. Nerf this, nerf that.. Ok maybe I need to calm down..... ----------------
Valexia	Posted - 2005.09.16 03:58:00 - [62] Originally by: Trepkos I wont stop till I kill everyone of you ****ing whiners. FFS! Why dont you STFU and play the game you whining little spoiled brats. Nerf this, nerf that.. Ok maybe I need to calm down..... Maybe you should quit whining?
Sadist	Posted - 2005.09.16 04:00:00 - [63] Frankly, I dont give a ****. Even being a gallente to the core I've never set foot upon the Thorax and probably never will. --------------- VIP member of the [23]
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2005.09.16 04:06:00 - [64] The whiners win, or have they. With tanking the Rax will be a cheaper Deimos, nice.
Mallik Hendrake	Posted - 2005.09.16 04:21:00 - [65] Maybe it'll be able to get a 400-800mm plate and some real guns on it. Due to the faster speed of the drones, 10 tech II mediums might be a feasibility for the t-rax, even still usin the ghetto small guns and a 1600MM plate. Might even be able to run a small repper with a 1600mm and 800mm plate and 2 passive hardeners (2 x nano maybe) (6500 armor rax 4tw). cough.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.16 04:34:00 - [66] "Maybe it'll be able to get a 400-800mm plate and some real guns on it. Due to the faster speed of the drones, 10 tech II mediums might be a feasibility for the t-rax, even still usin the ghetto small guns and a 1600MM plate." I'll quote from the main thread about changes, because am lazy ^^;; it looks like with new numbers Thorax can fit: * 4x tech.2 med ion blaster, 1x tech.2 med electron blaster * mwd, scrambler, web * 1x rcu, medium repairer, 800mm plate, 2x armour hardeners and 10 medium drones. or two heavy and 5 medium, or whatever. (..) with reasonable skills, that amounts to 310 raw dps total, with guns doing 230 or so of it... and yup, should be able to fit the 1600mm plate easily if drops the medium guns for small. Might even be able to switch that rcu for cap relay or damage mod, then, or anything.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.09.16 04:59:00 - [67] Originally by: j0sephine "Maybe it'll be able to get a 400-800mm plate and some real guns on it. Due to the faster speed of the drones, 10 tech II mediums might be a feasibility for the t-rax, even still usin the ghetto small guns and a 1600MM plate." I'll quote from the main thread about changes, because am lazy ^^;; it looks like with new numbers Thorax can fit: * 4x tech.2 med ion blaster, 1x tech.2 med electron blaster * mwd, scrambler, web * 1x rcu, medium repairer, 800mm plate, 2x armour hardeners and 10 medium drones. or two heavy and 5 medium, or whatever. (..) with reasonable skills, that amounts to 310 raw dps total, with guns doing 230 or so of it... and yup, should be able to fit the 1600mm plate easily if drops the medium guns for small. Might even be able to switch that rcu for cap relay or damage mod, then, or anything. I think if you drop the med rep + 800mm plate and add 1 more rcu 2 you could fit a 1600mm plate and keep the current rack of medium guns it has ________________________________________________________
Esrevatem Dlareme	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:17:00 - [68] I have to admit, it makes me sad. Loved running around with those 8 heavy drones tearing up things while I blasterz0red other stuff. But I will certainly concede that it was overpowered, and probably needed to be done. The increase in PG seems like fair compensation. ______________________________________________ As I stand, dazzled by the shattered twilight, I think back... I think back to all the events that have brought me here. And I realize... I realize I was ment to come here. Someone wanted me to come here. And now, I have come here.
Paul123	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:43:00 - [69] Give it 860pg like the deimos.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:57:00 - [70] Originally by: Spleef I posted on the other thread, but im shocked at how quickly and drastically a nerf can come about from just a few whining threads. Clearly a precedent has been set. Identify a race specific difference between your ship and those others fly, and whine for it to be nerfed so that all ships end up roughly the same. I'll leave it at that, i'm in shock.. ...actually I can remember the first time the thorax nerf was called: ..over a year ago when cruisers finally got their 2nd bonus. ------------------- Grimpak, all round nice guy

Manny Tanato	Posted - 2005.09.16 07:43:00 - [71] YAY!!!!! Does a happy dance This is great!! Since I can't wtfbbqpwnage in my Raven no more, I'm so happy that others are getting the sharp end of the nerf bat in their faces. Seriously though, the Thorax drone space did need nerfage IMO. But this brings to surface a worrying trend here. How low is everything going to get by the time CCP is done nerfing everything? Does it always have to be nerf nerf nerf? Why can't there be an alternative where CCP actually boosts or gives something to the players instead of always taking things away? At the very least, giving something to the game will result in incredible public relations improvement, whereas all these nerfs can only result in people getting mad. -=[ I huff and I puff and nothing falls... ]=-
Felxia	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:29:00 - [72] slot layout is abit unfair now, look at the maller and rupture slot layout. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I look at you with pity...
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:50:00 - [73] Originally by: Manny Tanato Seriously though, the Thorax drone space did need nerfage IMO. But this brings to surface a worrying trend here. How low is everything going to get by the time CCP is done nerfing everything? Does it always have to be nerf nerf nerf? Why can't there be an alternative where CCP actually boosts or gives something to the players instead of always taking things away? Ummm, you did read the new dev blog thread, did you? Most of the stuff there was boosts to existing ships, with this Thorax change one of the few nerfs. Actually reading dev blogs 4tw! :)
Sivona	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:25:00 - [74] What this post reminds me of most of all is the pulse laser nerf. The avid pulse users insisted that it was fair that their blaster type weapons could be used effectively 60km out, everyone else insisted that was unfair, the zealot was declared completely unusable with this change but yet for some reason its still one of the, if not the most popular HAC around. I am sure people will adapt and realise that the thorax is still an incredibly powerful cruiser.
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:31:00 - [75] I'm sad... :( I loved those 8 heavys... Well, time to adapt I think.. Death to the whiners... - New sig coming soon..
ArchenTheGreat	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:32:00 - [76] Originally by: Guardian Alpha Well, like the maulus it does need to be quite a bit stronger against other cruisers. It is a tier 3 cruiser after all, and just like I wouldn't expect an atron to stand up against an incursus/tristan I don't expect a tier 1 or 2 cruiser to be nearly as good as a tier 3 cruiser. OK now try to compare it to one of Caldari cruisers please. Now as Thorax got nerfed it's time to boost Moa and Caracal.
Farjung	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:38:00 - [77] Edited by: Farjung on 16/09/2005 09:39:07 This had to happen. Being able to stick one setup on (with small personal variations) and being able to have a decent shot at anything varying from frig gangs to battlecruisers to dubiously set-up HACs (and of course, NPC/fleet set-up battleships, but lots of ships can do that) was making the rax too much of a win button. An 800mm plate + electrons set-up will still be pretty powerful against cruisers and above, and a 1600mm plate + frig guns set-up will still own frigs. That the rax will no longer be able to do both tasks in one nice little package is certainly a nerf, but one that has to be done in my opinion. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:51:00 - [78] OH NOES! I think what we need is for blasters to have a 12K falloff, and you can take away all my Rax drones :)
JeanPierre	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Ravenge It should have recived extra slots as well.. as it has the lowest amount of slots of any Tier 3 cruisers. But well, the whiners, cry babies and carebears win this time round.. and well, i look forward to the "Whaaaa the maller is too uber posts." Yep. The way things seem to work nowadays. Nerf one thing. Then another. Cut down every daisy with it's head above the rest, until they are all nice and even. Promoting my theory that CCP is searching to make the UNISHIP that you can fit with exactly one UNIGUN, and this will be the only ship/gun setup available in EVE. That way, everything is "balanced" (aka nothing is different than anything else, because that might cause people who don't know how to be creative with diversity to whine).
maximyus	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:15:00 - [80] well done you tossers another decent ship nerfed whats nxt .................? sorry but my sig was podkilled

Matthew	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:20:00 - [81] Originally by: JeanPierre Promoting my theory that CCP is searching to make the UNISHIP that you can fit with exactly one UNIGUN, and this will be the only ship/gun setup available in EVE. That way, everything is "balanced" (aka nothing is different than anything else, because that might cause people who don't know how to be creative with diversity to whine). Leaving something that's obviously overpowered as it is also stifles diversity though. Who's going to bother coming up with creative setups when one ship with one setup will overpower it whatever you do? Originally by: JeanPierre Cut down every daisy with it's head above the rest, until they are all nice and even. What's easier, cutting down the one sticking up, or getting the other 100 to grow up to the new height? You can do anything. But you can't do everything.
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:22:00 - [82] Remember: The Thorax's 100m3 drone bay might be smaller than before, but will still be 100m3 larger than the Maller's. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:28:00 - [83] Originally by: Trepkos I wont stop till I kill everyone of you ****ing whiners. FFS! Why dont you STFU and play the game you whining little spoiled brats. Nerf this, nerf that.. Ok maybe I need to calm down..... <3
Arud	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:35:00 - [84] Originally by: Rodj Blake Remember: The Thorax's 100m3 drone bay might be smaller than before, but will still be 100m3 larger than the Maller's. exactly, and both with 5 turret hardpoints but we will just have to see about this change, it is definetly a good one but I think that the pg boost is too much
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:38:00 - [85] well i'd like exactly 170pg more on thorax and i sell all deimoses :). Anyway, it doesn't really matter if it is deimos or rax for ganks and if antiHAC bs pick u, u are deadmeat anyway. Only difference is price.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:40:00 - [86] It had to happen. Now wheres my extra 150 grid for my deimos? No, seriously, if youre going to give the rax nearly the same grid as my HAC, i may aswell fly the much cheaper fully insurable thorax. It lacks a second dmg bonus but meh. My Latest Vid: Linky
Minerdog	Posted - 2005.09.16 11:44:00 - [87] IF THEY're GONNA take away the drones, they should at least add some more PG then they did, or another mid-slot (or high slot for that matter).
Mallikanth	Posted - 2005.09.16 13:09:00 - [88] Oh nooooooo! Where will my babies live now <goes off and cuddles his drones>
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.16 13:14:00 - [89] Originally by: Arud Originally by: Rodj Blake Remember: The Thorax's 100m3 drone bay might be smaller than before, but will still be 100m3 larger than the Maller's. exactly, and both with 5 turret hardpoints but we will just have to see about this change, it is definetly a good one but I think that the pg boost is too much But lets not forget, the extra high slot, and extra low slot.. and the ability to easily tank and kill a rax and its 8 heavy that maller has already. The new changes, now make the rax pityful and the maller even more uber.
Raaki	Posted - 2005.09.16 13:15:00 - [90] I hope the Ishtar is next :)



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