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Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 41	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:21:00 - [1] - Quote Those of you complaining about the explosion radius increase I have to wonder if you have ever used Cruise missiles. I use a Cruise fit Navy Scorp in our C3 wormhole and I spank the Cruisers for pretty much full damage when they are not MWD'ing. Sure on a PVP fit you wouldnt have a full rig set of T2 flare or rigor rigs but you would still be able to use the amazing ammo called Precision Missiles. On my SNI to explosion radius on Precision is about 150 and the explosion velocity is about the same. 1 web on a frigate and you hit them for about 50% damage. The 30% increase in dps for me is huge, the slighty penalty in explosion radius isnt really going to have that much of an effect. My SNI has 2 target painters, 2 rigor rigs (third rig is a anti therm because of wormhole rats omni damage) and a web. Anything frigate or cruiser sized melts to Precision and bs take full damage from furys. The 30% damage bonus is massive, its quite possibly the best change for Odyssey I have seen so far. Damage application with missiles is a totally different ballgame to guns. Some people here I think dont fully understand the implications. This change is brilliant from my perspective. My fit is on Battleclinic at the moment. You can drop to T2 for similar respectable figures for level 4's. A web helps a lot but its missing from this fit. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65517-Scorpion-Navy-Issue-Wormhole-PVE.html
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 41	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:28:00 - [2] - Quote Edey wrote: I've been doing PvE since 06 and believe me I know how to fit ships. I lol'd, you clearly dont.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 41	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:30:00 - [3] - Quote StrongSmartSexy wrote: mynnna wrote: Hakan MacTrew wrote: Steve Spooner wrote: Pedo Torps Pedo Torps because I shouldn't have to fit 2 target painters to hit a battleship for full damage. Don't forget that Many BS's are getting a Sig.Rad. Increase with the rebalance. Not to mention guided missile precision applies to torpedos now, so with that maxed out, your explosion radius is 337.5m anyway. The smallest sig radius BS (post Odyssey) will be the Typhoon, at 330m. If you're shooting one of those (and it's going slower than 106.5m/s) you lose about 2.2% of your DPS. The effect of speed on the explosion radius is much more significant - the actual DPS loss against that Typhoon is about 24.5% of on-paper DPS, assuming its base speed of 143m/s. That said, that's 75% of ~940 DPS Numbers vary with Rage torps, of course. You'll want a target painter (or two or three) then! Yeah, Rage torps need tweaking. Lower explosion velocity than t1/faction and huge explosion radius requires GMP V and multiple support modules to apply that damage. I'm also not a fan of how Fury missile explosion radius is 72% larger than T1/faction. With the 10% increase in explosion radius for all missiles, T2 Fury Cruise missiles will have a base radius of 568m and a radius of 426m with GMP V. You sure those numbers are right? They seem too high from memory.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 41	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:43:00 - [4] - Quote Against a battleship yes, anything smaller no, your then in faction or precision territory.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 41	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:49:00 - [5] - Quote Dato Koppla wrote: Is the explosion radius increase really necessary? Even without the damage application nerf, Cruises aren't hitting anything below BS size for full damage without significant assistance from multiple rigors/tps. Probably yes, bear in mind missiles dont miss, if you compare long range guns you will soon see they need webs and tp's to hit at close range. If you increase to exp radius is needed or not is a different matter. Id probably say yes to be honest. Torps are the odd one out here. Close range high dps guns track better, close range torps "track" worse than cruise. Something needs to be do about torps really more than Cruise.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 43	Posted - 2013.04.17 07:13:00 - [6] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Daneel Trevize wrote: Breaking news: we don't balance modules in this PvP game around their effect in PvE. That tail doesn't wag this dog. As examples of where PvE rates might get plain nerfed for the benefit of the game, see recent HM nerf, upcoming TE nerf (that probably should be a Mach+tier3 BCs nerf). Rest assured if cruises were worthless in PvP but allowed pilots to make 10 billion isk/hour in PvE I would bet my mortgage several times over that they'd be nerfed. People are saying they might be TOO good for PvE and STILL not good enough for PvP. @Shingorash: Shhhhhhh. They are actually viable for PVP in the 30-70km range as tge flight time isnt that bad and at that range target painters still work. Im personally getting my corp in Cruise Navy Scorps for PVP. Any extra dps is a bonus.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 44	Posted - 2013.04.17 10:30:00 - [7] - Quote RIght EFT updated with new Cruise values. The fit below (about 600m ISK cheap fit) gives... 829 Fury DPS (87 Exp Velocity, 272 Exp Radius) - More than capable of smacking anything Cruiser sized at range or in close. 592 Precision DPS (124 Exp Velocity, 143 Exp Radius) - Again basically full damage to anything Cruiser sized. 592 T1 Damage (103 Exp Velocity, 158 Exp Radius) - Velocity is a bit low but anything in web range is still screwed. The values above still dont take into account the 2 Target Painters or the Web. A Merlin with a MSE and 3x CDFE has a sig radius of 52m. With 2 TP's on it the sig radius is going to end up at 79m. So 55% of the Damage from the Exp Radius difference on Precision gives 325.6 DPS without taking into account the Frigate moving. Outside of web range the DPS would be 170, in web range the DPS would be 382. If the Merlin had an AB On it the DPS would drop to 71 and 160. This doesn't include drones but in web range with Hammerhead II's and no AB a Merlin would take 540 DPS in its face of the 751 the SNI is putting out which is more than respectable. For PVE applications that is more than enough and to be honest with the fit below you could use Fury on Cruiser and above although T1 might be better because of the Explosion Velocity (you could either swap 1 Rigor for a Flare or use T1 ammo to fix that). In PVP applications you would lose some of the DPS listed but based on the tank on the SNI you could easily still do at least 33% DPS against Frigates with a PVP fit. [Scorpion Navy Issue, PVE] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I EM Ward Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II X-Large Shield Booster II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 I really hope this helps to qualm peoples fears about the Explosion increase, the damage buff more than offsets it. The DPS btw on the fit above with the Hammerhead II's and Fury is 988, if anyone tries to tell me that is crap considering the damage application you can get you need your head examining.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 44	Posted - 2013.04.17 11:37:00 - [8] - Quote Funky Lazers wrote: amurder Hakomairos wrote: lilol' me wrote: We have to remember that usually Cruise Missiles are not supposed to be for ship to ship battles. In RL like the tomahawks they are used to shoot land targets or 'structures' mainly. They not used for moving targets. So its not really a PVP tool is it. However we used to have the TASM which was an anti ship missile and this is exactly what we need in eve. A NEW Cruise Missile specifically designed for PVP. They should still be only shooting large ships, but have much much more velocity and perhaps not as much DPS. I know we have rage and precision cruise but I still dont think they are PVP based missiles as they dont have enough velocity. The changes to say 14 seconds just does nothing to help this. Seriously 14 seconds to hit a target in PVP. Forget it. I know thats base but still. This. Cruise missiles will be 100% useless and unused in pvp unless a pvp specific version is created with enough velocity that it can fly 200km in 1-2 seconds. Agree. Moreover you should be able to use them without the Painters. Not only you can't use painters on a long range, but also they have a long cycle time so switching targets will be a pain in the a$$. So you should be able to use Guns without Tracking Computers as well then? And perhaps they should remove the cap requirement for Hybrids and Energy weapons as well? That is basically what you are saying right? Each weapon system has drawbacks as well as benefits. You just have to learn to deal with them.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 44	Posted - 2013.04.17 11:40:00 - [9] - Quote amurder Hakomairos wrote: lilol' me wrote: We have to remember that usually Cruise Missiles are not supposed to be for ship to ship battles. In RL like the tomahawks they are used to shoot land targets or 'structures' mainly. They not used for moving targets. So its not really a PVP tool is it. However we used to have the TASM which was an anti ship missile and this is exactly what we need in eve. A NEW Cruise Missile specifically designed for PVP. They should still be only shooting large ships, but have much much more velocity and perhaps not as much DPS. I know we have rage and precision cruise but I still dont think they are PVP based missiles as they dont have enough velocity. The changes to say 14 seconds just does nothing to help this. Seriously 14 seconds to hit a target in PVP. Forget it. I know thats base but still. This. Cruise missiles will be 100% useless and unused in pvp unless a pvp specific version is created with enough velocity that it can fly 200km in 1-2 seconds. Cruise Missiles with their current changes are 600m/s faster than Heavy Missiles. Bearing in mind how much Drakes are used in fleets I dont see how your comment is valid in anyway? 7050m/s is nothing to scoff at. If you are in a fleet fight at 60km which is about the range a Drake blob would be the Cruise will hit before Heavy's do. Cruise changes actually make it possible to use them in PVP. Its a massive improvement.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 44	Posted - 2013.04.17 11:41:00 - [10] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: TZeer wrote: Raven could be useful in PVP. But not with the current mechanics to probing where you get a warp in within 5 sec. Sure, and if you're trying to use the Raven against fleets that are big enough to have a dedicated covops traveling with them.... well, then maybe you shouldn't use a Raven. That doesn't make it not useful. And hell - the Raven's fully capable of dropping out 900 DPS up close if someone were to warp their fleet on top of them. -Liang it would need a change of game mechanics. But what I think would make peopel satisfied woudl be if a cruise missile could be fired.. the raven could warp out .... and the missile fired would still hit and damage the target. That could lead to some interesting tactics Like Bombs I guess. The missiles though are guided, bombs are not, if you warp off grid there would be no guidance system and the missiles would miss. You could change it so that the missiles continue on their current trajectory if you warp out but considering they would likely miss I dont think it would be worth the dev's time to implement the change.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 44	Posted - 2013.04.17 12:40:00 - [11] - Quote Funky Lazers wrote: Shingorash wrote: Funky Lazers wrote: amurder Hakomairos wrote: lilol' me wrote: We have to remember that usually Cruise Missiles are not supposed to be for ship to ship battles. In RL like the tomahawks they are used to shoot land targets or 'structures' mainly. They not used for moving targets. So its not really a PVP tool is it. However we used to have the TASM which was an anti ship missile and this is exactly what we need in eve. A NEW Cruise Missile specifically designed for PVP. They should still be only shooting large ships, but have much much more velocity and perhaps not as much DPS. I know we have rage and precision cruise but I still dont think they are PVP based missiles as they dont have enough velocity. The changes to say 14 seconds just does nothing to help this. Seriously 14 seconds to hit a target in PVP. Forget it. I know thats base but still. This. Cruise missiles will be 100% useless and unused in pvp unless a pvp specific version is created with enough velocity that it can fly 200km in 1-2 seconds. Agree. Moreover you should be able to use them without the Painters. Not only you can't use painters on a long range, but also they have a long cycle time so switching targets will be a pain in the a$$. So you should be able to use Guns without Tracking Computers as well then? And perhaps they should remove the cap requirement for Hybrids and Energy weapons as well? That is basically what you are saying right? Each weapon system has drawbacks as well as benefits. You just have to learn to deal with them. I didn't say "without TC". If TCs/TEs affect missiles that would be great and remove a lot of problems. As for drawbacks missiles have already a lot of them, like bad tracking (expl radius and speed), flight time and defenders. Tracking Computers could be used to affect Missiles as you said for Exp Radius and Exp Velocity but I the bonus would have to be small as there are rigs, tp's and web's that already affect those 2 attributes. As for drawbacks, yes missiles have them but so do guns, energy and hybrid use cap, energy tracking is terrible at close range, projectile has a poor optimal, blaster have poor optimal and falloff unless you use T2 Null and Optimal Range scripts in TC's. It's not quite so simple to buff them as you would have to buff guns as well. As 2 different weapon systems they both have their good and bad points, but on the basis you can still hit things at 0 with missiles and you cant with rails, beams or arty I think on balance they are fine. You cant expect to hit everytime and hit for full damage. Unless you added a drawback to missiles like a minimum arming distance it wouldnt be fair to make them better from an exp radius and velocity standpoint. If you compare the benefits and drawbacks of missiles to guns they are actually fairly balanced. The only real difference is the instant damage of guns against the flight time of missiles. BUT, Missiles will hit for "full damage" at any range in their max whereas guns are affected by optimal and falloff. On a balance standpoint, Missiles are actually fine. To adjust them would make them overpowered in the grand scheme of things.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 44	Posted - 2013.04.17 12:45:00 - [12] - Quote Bucca Zerodyme wrote: i would like to post my opinion. PvE The Dmg from fury cruise was fine for PvE [I use a Navy Raven], because its a long range weapon system. It does about 700 DPS, but to apply your dps you need 3 rigs and a TP [mostly used for smaller targets]. Compared to Torpedos, which do about 900-1000 dps, at about 45KM-70KM range [with 3 range rigs, and no rage ammo] Cruise was fine. If i want more dmg, then i need to use torps, but because they have low range i cant use Rage ammo, so im stuck with normal ammo or Javelins for longer range. After this change my Navy Raven Cruise-Fit will do about 1000 DPS too, the same DPS as Torps fitted for long range. There is no advantage to use Torps anymore. @Rise If you want the Torps to be competitive in PvE then increase the range and reduce the Rage penalty's from the Torps. PvP I usually dont pvp, but i cant image them beeing better now. Torps at close range against BC's and BS will still easily out DPS Cruise Missiles with similar TP / Web setups. Torps could do with some extra range though. Rails, Arty, Beams and Cruise are all good for 150km+, Auto's with Barrage, Pulse with Scorch and to a somewhat lesser extent Hybrids with Null will all hit to 50km and beyond. Torps really need some extra range, 45km with Jav's is basically the max without rigs to increase it (about 58km I think from memory), but at that range Target Painters are literally hit and miss as the optimal goes at 45km. Also is you look at the Navy Apoc, Machariel and a couple of other ships you can hit for real good damage at 60km+. Torps would be fine with a little extra range and perhaps a longer range on Target Painters.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 44	Posted - 2013.04.17 13:21:00 - [13] - Quote Bucca Zerodyme wrote: Shingorash wrote: Torps at close range against BC's and BS will still easily out DPS Cruise Missiles with similar TP / Web setups. Torps could do with some extra range though. there is no close range in PvE. The only BS-Rats are the Angel and some Serpentis, which come close, the other NPC's usually stay at 40+ KM. See yourself: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php Lets do same Math. I will compare the Dmg from Cruise Fury and normal Torps, because i cant use Rage Ammo in a Range-Fit. because i dont have the proper rigs fitted. I wont apply the skills for this example because both weapon system would get the same Bonus, so i can just skip it. Base Stats: Cruise Dmg: 300 [current stats] / 300 * 1.25 = 375 [After the patch] Cruise Fury Dmg: 375 * 1.4 = 525 Torpedo Dmg: 450 Cruise Cycle [T2 luncher]: 17.6 [current stats] / 17.6 * 0.95 = 16.72 [After the patch] Torpedo Cycle [T2 luncher]: 14.4 14.4 / 16.72 = 0.861244 450 / 0.861244 = 522.5 < 525 so you see Cruise Fury will do the same DPS as Torpedos. I was more talking about PVP to be honest, short range weapons in PVE are obviously a poor idea. Then again I do use a Navy Mega with Blasters on my alt so its not all bad :) If torps had longer range they might work in PVE but I doubt it. For PVP applications though a bit more range would be useful.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 46	Posted - 2013.04.18 07:41:00 - [14] - Quote Chessur wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: You PVP fit your Ravens with 2 BCUs? Well, I think I found the ******* problem. -Liang I don't PvP fit ravens in the first place. Phoon could be possible, but any more than 2BCS and the stacking penalty is pretty nasty at that point. Better to place something else in most cases. Its 3 for bcu's to be fair, as it is for most modules.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 46	Posted - 2013.04.18 07:45:00 - [15] - Quote Chessur wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: Chessur wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: So why bother putting the BCUs on the Drake if you aren't trying to compare actual damage? And if you're not trying to compare actual damage... why not? Is that not what actually matters? :) -Liang Im comparing damage application based on realistic low slot fittings for ships. Both ships have 2 BCS Did you use 5 launchers and current missiles by chance? Because the Raven's fully capable of applying 840 DPS to a Drake at 200km. The Phoon shouldn't be too far behind that, even if you account for its armor tank. -Liang Raven, all level 5 skills, 2BCS, T2 launchers, CN scourge cruise missile On paper: 460 DPS MWD drake: 368 Raven, all level 5 skills, 2BCS, T2 launchers, Scourge Fury Cruise On paper: 560 DPS MWD drake: 232 DPS That is with the old raven and old missiles. But you get the point. Even with the 30% damage increase (assuming that you could actually apply that with the 10% decrease in explosion velocity- CN cruise raven is only doing 368 X 30% = 478 DPS (which is not all going to be applied anyway thanks to the decreased explo velocity.) Your numbers are crazy, or if they are real require so much low slot / rig space that its not viable for any normal PvP situation- and certainly not for solo / small gang. This is what rigor and flare rigs are for, I suggest you use them.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 46	Posted - 2013.04.18 12:45:00 - [16] - Quote As some people are mentioning Tracking Enhancers and Tracking Computers I thought I would add my 2 cents. Lets consider the differences here. Please note however I have left out Optimal / Falloff modules as there are specific rigs for Missile Flight Time and Velocity so these are already equal. Modules that effect Guns ability to do damage: Tracking Enhancers (Tracking) Tracking Computers (Tracking) Target Painters (Signature Resolution) Stasis Webifiers (Tracking) Metastasis Adjuster Rigs (Tracking) Modules that effect Launchers ability to do damage: Target Painters (Explosion Radius) Stasis Webifiers (Explosion Velocity) Flare Rigs (Explosion Velocity) Rigor Rigs (Explosion Radius) Based on all things being equal, Turrets have more help with the dealing damage side of things, this is a fact. Now, how could you effect change on this for Missiles. Changing Tracking Enhancers and Tracking Computers could be one option but they both come with issues. Tracking Enhancers give a bonus to optimal, falloff and tracking. In the case of missiles you would have to make this module have give a bonus to Explosion Velocity and a bonus to Explosion Radius. Reducing these things would help a little bit even if it was only 5% or so. Tracking Computers could simply be scripted to provide similar benefits, either as above, a bonus to both of 5% or perhaps 10% to either one with a script. Honestly I don't think this would solve the problem though. Really I think "if" there was to be a new module it would have to be a low slot equivalent of the Tracking Computer. Please note that the majority of the Missile ships in game are Caldari or Minmatar which for the most part are shield tanked. Adding one of these modules to a mid slot would mean sacrificing yet more tank. Adding it as a low slot module would make more sense though, you would have to pick either damage or "tracking" as Minmatar shield ships do when they select between Gyro Stabilizers or Tracking Enhancers. Now if you consider an Armored missile ship. This should would have the mid slots to be able to effectively fit the modules it needs to so it can do DPS. In the case of the new Typhoon you could fit it like this (this is a PVP fit). On this you have a Web and a Target Painter. The Warp Disruptor is being used so your target still has some MWD bloom if they are stupid enough to leave the MWD on (Explosion Radius), the Target Painter increases the Signature Radius (Explosion Radius) and the Stasis Webifier slows the ship down (Explosion Velocity). [Typhoon, PVP] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Target Painter II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Anti-Explosive Pump I Slight difference here, you dont have the mid slots to use a TP, the same still applies though. The Warp Disruptor is being used so your target still has some MWD bloom if they are stupid enough to leave the MWD on (Explosion Radius) and the Stasis Webifier slows the ship down (Explosion Velocity). [Sacrilege, Solo PVP] Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 10MN Afterburner II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Warrior II x3 A low slot module would make more sense in many ways. If you did similar fits to the above for shield ships you would quickly run out of mid slots. You really couldn't afford to fit a TP, Web, Warp Disruptor and Tracking Computer and still have anything resembling a tank. If there is to be a new module, it really has to be a low slot. Armor tanked ships with the mid slots to spare already have what they need to help with missile damage projection. Shield tanked ships do not. If its going to happen, its low slot or nothing and it really should be an active module like a Tracking Computer so it can be scripted.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 46	Posted - 2013.04.18 16:07:00 - [17] - Quote Berluth Luthian wrote: ...Wondering how the Cruise Missile buffer will improve this classic fit...? Thoughts? My Raven will be equipped with the following: HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I 01 x HYDRAULIC BAY THRUSTER I Please tell me your trolling.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 50	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:14:00 - [18] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Jureth22 wrote: just tested a cruise raven vs a typhoon fitt of raven : 6x cruise missile launcher II + scourge fury/1x web/1x painter/4x bcu initial volley whitout tp : 1201 with tp : 1500 seriosly???? will cruise missiles need to tp a battleship size hull to be able to make their full potention damage. i am dissapoint,dps looks ok on paper,but when in combat,everything changes I'm not sure why you would expect to use fury missiles to do full damage to any attack battleship. Try using the correct ammo (navy). -Liang Fury is fine as long as you have it painted and webbed. Also with missiles it pays to have 1x rigor and 1x flare rig. Not your usual PVP rig choice but if you want to do some damage you need them.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 50	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:23:00 - [19] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Sure, but this is not an unexpected thing. Also, these changes are not yet on Sisi (I just checked). -Liang They are on Duality now I think. I am just about to login and have a look, client just finished updating.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 50	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:32:00 - [20] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Two Rigours are better than a Rigour and a Flare. The only advantage of Flare is a lesser calibration cost. You are right. But I want to test a few different things out.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 51	Posted - 2013.04.22 18:13:00 - [21] - Quote Initial tests on the test server look good. Fit like this (which I admit is a bit of an odd fit for a PVP and the fact it has no prop mod) the ship has taken out 3 other Ravens, a Tengu and a Sac. High power 6x Cruise Missile Launcher II 1x Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Medium power 1x Faint Warp Disruptor I 1x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 1x EM Ward Field II Low power 1x Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II 1x Gravimetric Backup Array II Rig Slot 1x Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Drones 5x Warrior II 5x Hammerhead II Using Fury's I was hitting the Raven's for about 2300 damage a volley and the Tengu I was hitting for 1100 or so a Volley with Precision Missiles. Also 4 shotted an active tanked Sacrilege with T2 Precision. If the missiles stay like this they might actually be viable for PVP. The Explosion penalty isn't really having an effect. Need to test against Frigates.
Shingorash S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 51	Posted - 2013.04.23 00:01:00 - [22] - Quote Well that Raven ended up 10 for 0 so it is clearly working well. Even against something with an AB those precision missiles chew them up. Especially when in web range. If these are the final chnnges I am more than happy with them. Worked well on a Geddon as well. Cruise and long range neuts is a good combo.

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