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Megadon
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Posted - 2005.09.19 02:31:00 -
[1]
Seems that in PVP, battleships are becoming dinosaurs in Eve. In fleet engagements you see them less and less, not to say they're not there, they are, but much less frequently. More often than not, you see AF's, HAC's and Frigs.
I've noticed lately in the ship channel people trading BS's for HAC's more and more. This used to never ever happen. The battleships range of application is becoming narrower and narrower. While the ability of smaller ships to kill BS's is becoming more and more powerful. So basically, the BS is quickly becoming a one trick pony as far as pvp and more and more vulnerable. This is good to a point, because frigs used to be very fragile and do no damage, and BS's killed everything in sight with impunity, so the pendulum is swinging the other way now, that's good, but how far do we really want to go with this trend?
Some of the changes proposed in MK2 involve making the signature on cruisers smaller, so this would even further narrow the role of the Battleship. If a BS has trouble killing frigs and cruiser's, yet another reason to not even fly one.
BFS's are very cool, and I want them see more and more of them, not less and less and I really don't want the Battleship to become so narrowly defined as to what it does well that you don't see them very often and this is slowly taking place it seems.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.19 02:39:00 -
[2]
I disagree.
A correctly setup battleship will take down a hac or cruisers or frigs any day.
People dont set them up for this though. It's really that simple.
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Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2005.09.19 03:01:00 -
[3]
i want battleships to become rairly seen, or somthing, because, well, since ive beenn playing this game for well over 2 years, well, i just got sick of seeing Battleship only fleet battles and etc, lol.
Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime! Image done by Denrace |
Megadon
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Posted - 2005.09.19 03:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Daniel Jackson i want battleships to become rairly seen, or somthing, because, well, since ive beenn playing this game for well over 2 years, well, i just got sick of seeing Battleship only fleet battles and etc, lol.
Where do you fight? Not in 0 space, that's for sure...
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.09.19 05:05:00 -
[5]
Battleships getting rarer is a good thing in my opinion. They shouldn't remain the be all end all ship, but much rather provide focuss for engagements of smaller ships. I think Eve will get more interesting if Battleships start falling into support roles and damage dealing is more left to the smaller ships...
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.09.19 05:19:00 -
[6]
Less BSes is always good.
~Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.19 05:27:00 -
[7]
"I've noticed lately in the ship channel people trading BS's for HAC's more and more."
Possibly because the waiting queue for some of the HACs is geting over 4 month long, while battleship can be bought/built on the spot? So people might be trying to get their hands on HAC faster, this way... o.O;
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:15:00 -
[8]
Actually i think eve now reached a state that the devs worked for a long time. BS aren't the only viable shipclass in PVP anymore (wich they were for some time).
I love to fly in fast frig gangs. I also love to use HACs. Don't be confused by the fact that you see frigs and HACs often in combat though: BS still are very strong and a well set up BS can down a HAC quite easy still. Many pilots fly smaller ships for the ability to move fast or just want a change.
BS are fine as they are.
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PiniclePanda
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:16:00 -
[9]
Just wait until tech 2 battleships hit the scene :-).
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Andrue on 19/09/2005 08:44:16 The biggest threat to the battleship comes from its only true competitor:
Linkage
-- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Daniel Jackson i want battleships to become rairly seen, or somthing, because, well, since ive beenn playing this game for well over 2 years, well, i just got sick of seeing Battleship only fleet battles and etc, lol.
Seconded.
Originally by: James Lyrus Complaining about PvP & Pirates in EVE is like complaining about the mines in minesweeper. |
Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.09.19 10:06:00 -
[12]
HACs suck. Ppl just fly them cause they think they are cool.
Its all these carebears who are afraid to loose anything and flying plated thoraxs that annoys me.
BS + ceptors is all thats needed. Anything else is a waste of resources. ----------------------------------------- wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Aryanna
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Posted - 2005.09.19 10:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shin Ra HACs suck. Ppl just fly them cause they think they are cool.
Its all these carebears who are afraid to loose anything and flying plated thoraxs that annoys me.
BS + ceptors is all thats needed. Anything else is a waste of resources.
I tried three times to write a post saying how stupid that comment was but i couldnt word it properly, so he it is nice and blunt: that was a stupid comment
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.19 10:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shin Ra HACs suck. Ppl just fly them cause they think they are cool.
Its all these carebears who are afraid to loose anything and flying plated thoraxs that annoys me.
BS + ceptors is all thats needed. Anything else is a waste of resources.
HAC are flown cause of funfactor, thats sure. But plated thoraxes are able to fight most other ships, especially ceptors.
And tbh, a good cruiser fleet is able to kill most other stuff which is nearly as expansive as themself:
a 5 cruisers vs 3 BS is easily won, also 5 cruisers vs 2 BS and 4 ceptors is still a easy game for the cruisers. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put your panties on your head! |
Hans Roaming
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Posted - 2005.09.19 10:56:00 -
[15]
I think it's good that mixed fleets are coming back into the fold, and corretly setup, BS can really upset peoples day, especially to cruisers.
"I need you guys to come right away, or better yet send someone who can fight" |
SIllyAngel2
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Posted - 2005.09.19 11:10:00 -
[16]
Im a noob really though my bro played a bit in beta. But from i understand a BS was never really meant to be a lone wolf taking on everything and anything. Its supposed to be a center for a fleet kinda like a bastion or rally point for frigs and cruisers and whatnot. (maybe im thinking to realisticly heck i dunno)
So "smaller" vessels taking out BS's does kinda make sense if theyre out there on their own. In other words people should group together more when flying round which im sure happens but obviously not enough.
Anyways thats my noob perspective on it.
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Nomade
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Posted - 2005.09.19 11:12:00 -
[17]
fully kitted tech 2 rigged battleship is still the most powerfull ship in the game but a real ass pain too lose .
elite frigate = alot off fun too fly and a mere annoyance too lose .
thats why i fly a elite frigate 99% off the time in pvp .
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Kaasta Karrde
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Posted - 2005.09.19 11:16:00 -
[18]
I <3 my Raven
All I know is a HAC and two Inties attacked me in a belt the other night and I got out of there alive and they kept all warping in and out of the belt without really hurting me. So yeah, um, ok.
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VonKaplanek III
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Posted - 2005.09.19 11:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Shin Ra
a 5 cruisers vs 3 BS is easily won, also 5 cruisers vs 2 BS and 4 ceptors is still a easy game for the cruisers.
Not 3 jamming Scorps Nafri!!
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Dezzyb0y
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Posted - 2005.09.19 11:36:00 -
[20]
New ships = more fun. Hacs are good for fast moving close range fights. BS will always be slower but at the same time do more dmg and take more. -----------------------
K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 dama |
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Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2005.09.19 11:40:00 -
[21]
Ceptors and AFs was in the PVP front line for quite long.
The cruisers come in again after someone discovered the oversized AB+micro combo, than they dissapeared from the battlefields again.
HACs come in, and their popularity is increasing. They are awesome ships, realy cool to fly. But they are still quite expensive.
Cruisers come back right after they got a 10% aggility and speed boost and the plates got the love. With a good cruiser fitting you become ablet to take the fire from battleships for a limited time. People tend to forget that the plates are against targets who realy can do damage against you. Cruisers main roll always was to take out smaller ships like AFs and ceptors. The plate just make it easier in this situation.
The cruisers main problem was, that a battleship from 80 - 100 Km ripped it apart in a few volly.
Tbh what I would like to see is to give all cruisers double triple armor and shield what now they have, and remove the abbility to fit 1600mm palte. IMHO it would be more in line....
About cruisers signature, they realy need some decrease like the battlecruisers. A cruise missile from a good skilled rave will ruin any cruiser pilots day in 30 sec. or any damage fitted gunship from 40 - 160 km still hit them even the cruiser is useing afterburner. This is not a problem at all, only the the damage dealt to teh cruiser is too much IMHO.
Todays favourite fleets (at least in teh areas I fight) are mixed fleets, if you take 20 man gang, the fleet is something like : 4 - 8 BS (snipers and jammers), 5 - 6 cruisers , 5 - 6 HACs and the rest are ceptors and AFs...
This can make some fun battles, and some disasterous. The presence of lot of support mean lots of scramblers and this can mean the total annihilation of one or the other side. You have to be realy wise to take the fight or not. - New sig coming soon.. |
Ramses OverDark
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Posted - 2005.09.19 11:48:00 -
[22]
/Agree with original poster
HAC's are too versitile, no real downside to them aside from the hassle of getting your hands on one and replacing it if you lose it.
BS are beoming miners and rat killers, compared to a HAC the range of things they are good at is minimal, you an equip a HAC with a standard load to deal with most situations most of the time, that can no longer be done on a BS.
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ramses OverDark /Agree with original poster
HAC's are too versitile, no real downside to them aside from the hassle of getting your hands on one and replacing it if you lose it.
BS are beoming miners and rat killers, compared to a HAC the range of things they are good at is minimal, you an equip a HAC with a standard load to deal with most situations most of the time, that can no longer be done on a BS.
/me looks at his eagle and cerburus wishign this was true
Quoted From MouseOnMars Especially the Machariel, which can cast level 1 sh*t your pants upon appearing on the battlefield |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Deja Thoris I disagree.
A correctly setup battleship will take down a hac or cruisers or frigs any day.
People dont set them up for this though. It's really that simple.
Everyone can setup a BS to fight in certain conditions. The trick is getting yourself into that condition without encountering variables your not set to engage. So unfortunately, people have to setup to cover MOST eventualities, not a single one.
So its not that simple... nothing ever is. ___________
There was a siggy here...
Where did I put that damned thing... |
Tar om
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:38:00 -
[25]
The only kills that count are BS kills, and half a point for a HAC. Everything else is just noise. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
"The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions." |
EvilDoomer
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tar om The only kills that count are BS kills, and half a point for a HAC. Everything else is just noise.
hmm this is intelligent
Thanks
EvilDoomer
Chicago Mobsters
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Bsport
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:25:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Bsport on 19/09/2005 14:26:37 we are moving away from BS only fleets to large mixed fleets were each ship has a role which is good :) now all we need is fleet formations added, they were taken out in beta --------
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: VonKaplanek III
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Shin Ra
a 5 cruisers vs 3 BS is easily won, also 5 cruisers vs 2 BS and 4 ceptors is still a easy game for the cruisers.
Not 3 jamming Scorps Nafri!!
sure thy win against 3 jamming scorps, cause thy scorps wont be able to kill a cruiser, where the drones of the cruisers will kill the scorps
Also cruisers will use EW too, thats for sure --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put your panties on your head! |
Loka
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:46:00 -
[29]
The more BS in a gang, the more likely the cruisers will be bbqed.
1vs1, cruiser are deadly, because BS cant kill them fast enough or even hit them at pointblank.
2vs2 already different. Place 2 BS 30km away each other. Now pls attack one. with 2 cruiser. This 2 cruisers will get their but handed on a silver tablet, if the 2 BS will know their profession.
HACs are different here. dont forget, you need few times the money and skills to fly one. So i think its okay for them to be a threat to BS.
But each 3 BS kills, will be same resourcess lost, when 1 HAC will die.
So in a 3vs3 situation, the HAC¦s can only loose moneywise.
BS are needed for large sieges. You cant siege with cruisers. The more BS your enemy is bringing, the more BS you will have to bring. Larger battles like 10+ vs 10+, cant be won by single cruisers. Probably they wouldnt even get a kill.
HAC will do some dmg, but even there half of the HAC¦s is not more, will be lost during this fight. Which will mean 500 mil lost for HAC crew and min 300 mil lost if all BS will get killed.
Again my point is. Fast raidings smaller ships 4tw. but only because you can evade the enemy fleet and still get ganks. You cant engae a samesized enemy BS fleet (fleet = +10 ships), if you dont have enough EW support or some BS atleast.
My opinion. Mixed fleets 4tw. The best fleet is a mixed one of AF, HAC, EW and GANKships. _________________________ Dead or Alive
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Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.09.19 15:17:00 -
[30]
I also think that mixing fleets should be the best, but 5 BS will easily kill a mixed setup of 5 other ships, even with fancy tackling, fleet formations, etc, provided the BS are properly setup and know what they are doing.
The only reason to use smaller ships in fleet combat is because they cost less to lose (HACs being the exception). It would be fun if support vessels in fleet battle actually contributed to more than just easy cannon fodder (one EW might be more worth than a BS in right situations though).
It would be fun if X number of ships, where the all have varied sizes and roles, could battle X battleships and win. Today they cant, its as simple as that, unless the BS pilots are totally clueless.
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