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Solving the Escrow scam cluttering.

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Meehan	Posted - 2005.09.19 07:42:00 - [1] Okay, it should be noted that I don't mind the escrow scams per se, but it's getting a tad annoying that out of 15 Apocs on escrow fourteen are assorted singular basic mods while the only real Apoc was the one for 245M. How to clean escrow? Simple; add a broker's fee of a flat 1%, just like on the market. Escrow has several advantages warranting this. First; it's virtually gratis compared to the market to place orders. Also, they are visible for an infinite amount of jumps. Thirdly; they allow for bulk packages. The only drawback is that of course the order fades away with time as new orders bump them out of visibility. A broker's fee of 1% would kill off all pieces of Tritanium for 125M ISK, making real orders last longer. It would also encourage people to go back to the old way of direct trade; something which in my opinion was something of a social thing. Thank you for listening
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.09.19 07:54:00 - [2] Nice idea.
Phasics	Posted - 2005.09.19 07:57:00 - [3] acutally simplest way to fix escrow is to remove the ability for people to write ina description. and just have the description to default to a pop out menu that list every single item in the escrow as you scroll over with mouse. no more naming = no more scamming people will still try sell a light missle for 100mil but it will say Light missle indescription so its easy to spot
CelticKnight	Posted - 2005.09.19 09:00:00 - [4] like.... uber/super/hyper KOS anything BLAH BLAH.. you look it and its an ibis... Cant we just get an Ibis weapon pod and beat whoever posts these with it untill they stop?! PLEASE?!!
Masu'di	Posted - 2005.09.19 09:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Phasics acutally simplest way to fix escrow is to remove the ability for people to write ina description. and just have the description to default to a pop out menu that list every single item in the escrow as you scroll over with mouse. no more naming = no more scamming people will still try sell a light missle for 100mil but it will say Light missle indescription so its easy to spot ok so what do you do for multiple items? or perhaps you are escrowing something for a friend of corp, and want to explain. e.g. "these are the Curse bookmarks you were asking for" bringing Es and Whizz to a station near you
Jin Entres	Posted - 2005.09.19 09:33:00 - [6] You wouldn't see many T2 BPOs being sold through the escrow. Or faction battleships and other expensive toys. How about just a new tab? "Available Escrow Scams"
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.09.19 09:37:00 - [7] How about just a blacklist? -- Proud member of the [23].
Thomasina	Posted - 2005.09.19 10:43:00 - [8] Regardless of the scam spam, I think there should be a charge for selling market items through Escrow, as the current system mostly bypasses the sales tax and broker fee skill requirements. Additionally, if Escrow is going to be "fixed", how about also fixing the bug where you can use Escrow from any station, regardless of whether it offers Missions or not?
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.09.19 10:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Thomasina Additionally, if Escrow is going to be "fixed", how about also fixing the bug where you can use Escrow from any station, regardless of whether it offers Missions or not? That is a good thing. -- Proud member of the [23].
infused	Posted - 2005.09.19 10:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Thomasina Regardless of the scam spam, I think there should be a charge for selling market items through Escrow, as the current system mostly bypasses the sales tax and broker fee skill requirements. Additionally, if Escrow is going to be "fixed", how about also fixing the bug where you can use Escrow from any station, regardless of whether it offers Missions or not? How?
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.09.19 10:47:00 - [11] Originally by: infused Originally by: Thomasina Regardless of the scam spam, I think there should be a charge for selling market items through Escrow, as the current system mostly bypasses the sales tax and broker fee skill requirements. Additionally, if Escrow is going to be "fixed", how about also fixing the bug where you can use Escrow from any station, regardless of whether it offers Missions or not? How? Right click on anyone, add bounty, escrow tab. -- Proud member of the [23].
R4d1o4ct1v3	Posted - 2005.09.19 11:17:00 - [12] There could be a user made Description and a System made Comment saying what it really is. Also I think adding a 1% fee is a good think... If nothing else it might lower the price of objects as people would want to loose as little as possoble if nobody buys the item. Makeing a price limit for an object is also a possibility.. For example no higher than 500% of avarage market value. This would keep people from selling a single unit of trit for 500 billions. I would also support GM's kicking the sh*t out of those who are trying to steal our is ------------------- 01 011 011 0111..
Dezzyb0y	Posted - 2005.09.19 11:31:00 - [13] Edited by: Dezzyb0y on 19/09/2005 11:32:03 Originally by: Phasics acutally simplest way to fix escrow is to remove the ability for people to write ina description. and just have the description to default to a pop out menu that list every single item in the escrow as you scroll over with mouse. no more naming = no more scamming people will still try sell a light missle for 100mil but it will say Light missle indescription so its easy to spot Omg dont start removing scaming aswell, thats like stupid. Theres a reason nobodys done that yet, BECAUSE IT AINT ******* ILLEGAL STOP WHINING. [Edit] Your all a bunch of homobears... get over it, start reading stuff, what you need to see is there, if you actually took 30seconds to go (inspect merchandse) it would tell you what it is. Stop being lazy and if you want to whine go cry in a corner somewhere. ----------------------- K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 dama
SpaceJockey	Posted - 2005.09.19 11:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Dezzyb0y Edited by: Dezzyb0y on 19/09/2005 11:32:03 Originally by: Phasics acutally simplest way to fix escrow is to remove the ability for people to write ina description. and just have the description to default to a pop out menu that list every single item in the escrow as you scroll over with mouse. no more naming = no more scamming people will still try sell a light missle for 100mil but it will say Light missle indescription so its easy to spot Omg dont start removing scaming aswell, thats like stupid. Theres a reason nobodys done that yet, BECAUSE IT AINT ******* ILLEGAL STOP WHINING. [Edit] Your all a bunch of homobears... get over it, start reading stuff, what you need to see is there, if you actually took 30seconds to go (inspect merchandse) it would tell you what it is. Stop being lazy and if you want to whine go cry in a corner somewhere. Obviously a scammer then :)
Meehan	Posted - 2005.09.19 11:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Dezzyb0y Omg dont start removing scaming aswell, thats like stupid. Theres a reason nobodys done that yet, BECAUSE IT AINT ***** ILLEGAL STOP WHINING. [Edit] Your all a bunch of homobears... get over it, start reading stuff, what you need to see is there, if you actually took 30seconds to go (inspect merchandse) it would tell you what it is. Stop being lazy and if you want to whine go cry in a corner somewhere. I'll make you a quiz regarding the original post. Question #1) Did Meehan specifically say he had nothing against scamming? 1) Yes X) No 2) I don't know Question #2) Why was Meehan of the opinion a broker's fee should be implemented? 1) Because he is in strong favour of ISK-sinks X) Because he feels market characters should be penalized for a no-risk business 2) Because he was getting annoyed with all bogus offers taking up space Question #3) If someone says that 14 out of 15 offers are bogus; does this imply that: 1) The poster has obviously bought all of the offers to later realize 14 out of 15 were fake X) The poster already knows how to view contents before buying 2) The poster was obviously tipped off by some guy in local Question #4) Resorting to calling people * is a clear sign of: 1) Being really, really macho X) Being white-trash and/or 12 2) Being eloquently witty Now for the correct answers: 1, 2, X, X For three correct answers: Congratulations, you know how to read. Quit doing quizzes and start reading Melville or maybe even Tolstoy. For two correct answers: Congratulations, you're a lucky individual and can sometimes pass yourself off as an intelligent being. Don't jinx it though, go buy yourself a lottery ticket right away. For one correct answer: Dude, you're probably having a bad day. Get a cup of coffee and come back later to actually post something constructive and on-topic. For zero correct answers: You're most likely a Gallente character with a need to make up for some unknown feature of your RL self. Start writing in caps and join a pirate corp and no one will be a wiser about your true you.
Knightwind	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:06:00 - [16] Edited by: Knightwind on 19/09/2005 12:07:26 How about if your caught by CCP having placed a scam on escrow then you will get fined the amount of the escrow. E.G. You place a Merlin on escrow and say its a Harpy and your charging 20 mil then you get a 20 mil fine and the item confiscated and thus recycled back into the ethos. If you aint got 20 mil then goods to that amount should be taken via the recycling of your most expensive ship into minerals and the correct amount of minerals then confiscated. That should put the scum off. "Today is a good day to die" Knightwinds Eve Journal
Meehan	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Knightwind Edited by: Knightwind on 19/09/2005 12:07:26 How about if your caught by CCP having placed a scam on escrow then you will get fined the amount of the escrow. E.G. You place a Merlin on escrow and say its a Harpy and your charging 20 mil then you get a 20 mil fine and the item confiscated and thus recycled back into the ethos. If you aint got 20 mil then goods to that amount should be taken via the recycling of your most expensive ship into minerals and the correct amount of minerals then confiscated. That should put the scum off. That would be highly impractical, seeing how it would require a paid workforce to maintain.
Celes Tial	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:16:00 - [18] I disagree. Yes, Escrow is global, but only for A FEW HOURS. After a day, your Escrow isnt even on the regional overview anymore. This means you have to cancel and renew it every day... with a 1% of the sales price fee, it would start to hurt your wallet very much. Escrow works fine the way it is, scams are detected easily enough. I'd rather see a search function added.
Meehan	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:20:00 - [19] To be honest, I think (can't really have proof for this) that if all bogus escrows were taken off the system we'd see a great increase in the time a real offer would be up. As it is now people throw all kind of junk up there, just because there is no real effort or investment to it. Adding a broker's fee would probably remove much of the real offers there as well. No use placing an implant on escrow if you have to pay just as much as you do on the normal market...
Misses Gap	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:25:00 - [20] Easiest way to solve this is to ONLY allow characters that are older than 3 months or have say 2 M in skillpoints enter items in escrow. Alternatively there could be an "escrow" skill to be trained up so using alts for it will hurt more. ..just some thoughts, Gap
Par'Gellen	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Phasics acutally simplest way to fix escrow is to remove the ability for people to write ina description. and just have the description to default to a pop out menu that list every single item in the escrow as you scroll over with mouse. no more naming = no more scamming people will still try sell a light missle for 100mil but it will say Light missle indescription so its easy to spot I like this idea too mainly because a lot of people think they are clever by putting a bunch of spaces or goofy characters at the beginning of their descriptions so that their item gets listed at the top. What these poor retarded souls don't realize is most people sort it by PRICE and if they name their entry something stupid it will never be seen. Trust me I'm not going to sit there and examine every stupid entry to see if it's what I'm looking for.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:59:00 - [22] As a tie-in to the server-imposed description, what I'd like to see is a limit on the number of escrows you can have displayed at any one time. For instance, if someone wants to put 100 identical apocalypse bpc's on escrow at once, that's all well and good and should be encouraged. But nobody needs to SEE all 100 of them; one is enough. Some sort of system that only lists the one out of those 100 with the least time remaining; and if/when it's bought, throws in the next one, and so on until they're all sold. You might argue that the maximum number viewable at once should be five, or three, or something more than one; I'd accept that, but nobody ever buys 100 Apoc bpc's at a time, surely?. It'd be cheaper to get your own original, if you produce on that scale. Probably unworkable/uncodable though. Shame. Celt Corp - members of ISS
Kylania	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:06:00 - [23] Great ideas! Here's my mix of ideas to help: 1. 1% fee. This will prevent most scams but also allow you to still put up items for friends at 0.00 ISK for "free" to transfer items. 2. Stack BPCs. Got 200 Apoc BPCs, you get 1 listing. People can buy 1, or however many at a time. I'd even take it furthur and have sections in Escrow for BPCs, where you click on Apoc say, and see all the things for sale there. Just something to seperate out the stupid flood of these things. 3. Make the player description thing appear as a [r] tool tip (like in the Wallet) and the name of the escrow come from the actual item(s) in the escrow. Perhaps allow you to indicate which item to list first in the case of a fully loaded ship escrow or something. 4. Region drop down. Implementing #2 might actually help somewhat with this, but allow the ability to search other/all regions. That way, if some moron comes up and puts 500 BPCs for sale, you can still get use out of the escrow listing without having to travel to each region to get rid of the 500 spam flood. 5. All current scammers ships blow up, no insurance, and they lose all their skill points and ISK on all characters/accounts. :) To help them adjust to life post-stupid. :) -- Lil Miner
Dahin	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:07:00 - [24] tax can't work, because escrow was mainly created for items that could not be sold on the market (used to be named items too). Noone can tax t2 bpo's, bpc's and named items, so that can't work. my BIGGEST question is: why the hell are we allowed to put items that can be sold in the market on escrow? a) Because we like to avoid the market fees? b) Because we want to put adverts on escrow descriptions? c) Because we like to scam? WHAT is the reason I can sell trit on escrow, now tell me... Personally, I NEVER even check the escrow list, since it's cluttered to death from scams and sell orders from very persisting people (refreshing every 3 hours).
MAcheTT3	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Meehan For zero correct answers: You're most likely a Gallente character with a need to make up for some unknown feature of your RL self. Start writing in caps and join a pirate corp and no one will be a wiser about your true you. HEY!!!1 AS A GALLENTE CHARACTER AND CEO OF A PIRATE CORPORATION, I RESENT THAT!!!1!11ELEVEN Personally, I think Escrow scamming is a valid part of the game, and while it does suck to have to wade through a load of fake Escrows, I also wouldn't like to see it removed completely. However, I like the sound of the 'Blacklist' idea... \| .ZOMG RECRUITING NOW \| LOOK AT ME! I MAKE SIGS! WOO! \|
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:23:00 - [26] Simplest solution: look to eBay. Let us rate sellers positively or negatively. If you turned Escrow into EVEBay, it would be easier to tell who to buy from. Also, give an option to adjust viewing tolerances of the seller ratings to filter out the scammers. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
res0nance	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:05:00 - [27] Easiest method is to add another column - base value. While the base value wouldn't be correct in many cases, such as with Tech2 items, it would certainly make it VERY clear who's trying to sell 1 tritanium for 100m isk. Sig Master
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:13:00 - [28] Edited by: Winterblink on 19/09/2005 16:13:23 Originally by: res0nance Easiest method is to add another column - base value. While the base value wouldn't be correct in many cases, such as with Tech2 items, it would certainly make it VERY clear who's trying to sell 1 tritanium for 100m isk. The system is supposed to calculate this then? What about with multiple items, or prebuilt ships? Or named items, where the base value is not entirely meaningful? I think that the problem with escrow scamming is not with how the value of items is calculated or displayed, but with the scammers themselves. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Soren	Posted - 2005.09.19 17:02:00 - [29] Either add the ability to rate people like winterblink said, or just straight out block them. Just like they can be blocked from chat there should be an escrow block. _________________________________________________________
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2005.09.19 19:50:00 - [30] How about useing the "inspect merchandise" option already provided? Seems to work for me....But then again I am an aircraft mechanic, what do I know? Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter [i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.

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