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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.09.19 19:54:00 -
[31]
Search Escrow
Filter Escrow
!!!
[23]
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2005.09.19 20:23:00 -
[32]
Meehan FTW \o/ you ebil slaver you.
thanks for a good laugh and i'm glad no liquids came into contact with any computer components. But it was a near thing.
1% isn't a bad idea. Until that time happens, i recommend everyone start clearing their hangars by putting their craploot in billion-isk escrows visible only by the scammer. It clears some floorspace for a day, or three, or a week, or 3 months  while you organize the stuff you actually want to keep, and since there's "nothing illegal" about it as our semiliterate Gallente friend points out, i'm sure the scammers will defend your actions and not cry or whine at all.
I've already notice more and more people putting "INSPECT!" at the end of their real sales as a reminder. This doesn't solve the damn clutter, of course, but is a nice response to the situation, poking the less experienced or careful.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.19 20:57:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Roshan longshot
How about useing the "inspect merchandise" option already provided? Seems to work for me....But then again I am an aircraft mechanic, what do I know?
Apparently not much 
The problem isn't being able to tell which ones are scams; the problem is that even when you know they ARE scams, they still show up in the list, cluttering it, and throwing honest escrows off the bottom so you can't see the ones you're after.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Alinys Spelloyal
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Posted - 2005.09.19 21:15:00 -
[34]
.
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Jagaroth
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Posted - 2005.09.19 21:21:00 -
[35]
I don't like the idea of banning anyone less than 2 months old. I picked up a Dread Guristas frigate in an asteroid belt when I was a noob and it dropped a nice little item which made a big (at the time) difference to my bank balance. Also, who's to say that all scammers are noobs?
Anyway, Meehan's idea is pretty simple, presumably straightforward to implement, and it would work...why quibble over this? 
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.09.19 21:43:00 -
[36]
The first idea was excellent. 1% tax modified by whatever skills you have that counts towards normal market selling.
That does not rule out scamming, but at least makes it a risk/reward scenario.
Marking the sellers is a dead idea, and should have been before it left the keyboards. Almost all the scammers are shortlived alts.
OPs idea is excellent and easy.
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Mercade
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Posted - 2005.09.19 23:42:00 -
[37]
I find it frustrating that not all escrows appear because it seems the list is trunctuated. A prime example is going to a place like Jita and check a system wide escrow to a show all by someone 3 regions away. You'll find tons of escrows hidden by narrowing the search.
This combined with the "Feature" of getting a personal escrow and having to arrive at that destination to actually see it or know you have one unless you were told is very frustrating as well.
PLEASE READ THE BELOW:
Why couldn't escrow simply be a giant classified section that leads to market/contracts (which need to be implemented). Make it cost an amount to make a post and make that cost refresh every downtime with a choice on how many days you want your ad to run.
Then your scammers would have to put up market sales or contracts which the first is impossible to scam on and the latter should be difficult.
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res0nance
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Posted - 2005.09.19 23:50:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
The first idea was excellent. 1% tax modified by whatever skills you have that counts towards normal market selling.
That does not rule out scamming, but at least makes it a risk/reward scenario.
Marking the sellers is a dead idea, and should have been before it left the keyboards. Almost all the scammers are shortlived alts.
OPs idea is excellent and easy.
So I kill some dude and he drops a faction repairer that I want to sell on escrow for 1b isk. I then have to pay 10m isk (1%) to make it visible for a very short period of time, a maximum of a week, and much less if it gets pushed off by newer escrows.
That's pretty hefty imo.
Sig Master |
Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2005.09.20 00:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: res0nance
Originally by: Trak Cranker
The first idea was excellent. 1% tax modified by whatever skills you have that counts towards normal market selling.
That does not rule out scamming, but at least makes it a risk/reward scenario.
Marking the sellers is a dead idea, and should have been before it left the keyboards. Almost all the scammers are shortlived alts.
OPs idea is excellent and easy.
So I kill some dude and he drops a faction repairer that I want to sell on escrow for 1b isk. I then have to pay 10m isk (1%) to make it visible for a very short period of time, a maximum of a week, and much less if it gets pushed off by newer escrows.
That's pretty hefty imo.
If it doesn't sell then maybe you're asking too much, and even if you do sell it, you'll still be looking at 990 mil in your wallet, although I do understand you point.
I also like the OPs idea, but I would make a slight change to address what res0nance is saying.
The 1% of value disappears from your wallet when it enters escrow as a deposit. If someone claims and pays for your escrow then you get your deposit back. If it expires unclaimed or you cancel the escrow before it expires then you lose the deposit.
This would have 2 effects, firstly scammers would only lose cash *unless* someone gets caught out and secondly escrow prices would be more in line with what people are really prepared to pay for them.
--
Intergalactic Teeth Pullers
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein |
Scoundrelus
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Posted - 2005.09.20 00:14:00 -
[40]
Im really not getting this scamming thing. I browse escrow constantly. I always inspect and 99% of the time its the genuine thing. Theres the odd person who describes it as "COOL SHIP!" and you inspect and its 1 tritanium (cheap bastard coulndt even put 2 or 3 trit) but thats all. I dont even see why people scam since you would have to be REALLY *****ed out on dope to actually TAKE an item without inspecting first.
Hell when you select to buy the item, whether or not you inspected, you get a popup telling you what your buying. Scams arent the problem, dumb people are.
===============================================
I will punch you with my laser!
-Scoundrelus |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.09.20 00:20:00 -
[41]
How about you having to be in a player corporation to use escrow to begin with.
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Tobber Harley
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Posted - 2005.09.20 01:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Winterblink
Simplest solution: look to eBay. Let us rate sellers positively or negatively. If you turned Escrow into EVEBay, it would be easier to tell who to buy from.
Also, give an option to adjust viewing tolerances of the seller ratings to filter out the scammers.
I think this is a really good idea, but would surely need some kind of control, like only a limited number of persons from a corp can give a rating.
Otherwise it would be too easy to exploit this for big corps with a lot of 'voting power'...
And PLEASE just add that search/filter function to escrow! 
Regards, Tobber...
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Lazarus Tag'lim
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Posted - 2005.09.20 04:33:00 -
[43]
Yeah... point to those who say, "Wahh... just inspect", it's not about that... it's about the clutter. I never minded a 10,000 isk item showing up on market for 10,000,000. Also... to the guy selling a 1b isk named ship... if you've got something worth that much, put it up on the forums for auction, then sell via a direct trade.
One of the things that annoys me is that to look for one item, I must browse to several different places... say a Raven BPC, I may have to look for "Raven BPC...", "-Raven BPC...", "--Raven BPC...", "BPC Raven...", etc.
Here's what I'd like to see... break Escrows up into a few categories, some of them with special rules.
BPC/BPO Tab: Limited to single BPO/BPCs (per escrow), nice neat table that shows base item, Either "BPO" or number of runs, ME, PE, price. It'd be nice if they'd allow us to stack BPCs of identical properties, and let us sell stacks (like the market... put up 1,000,000 trit, and there's one order, you can buy 1 unit, or all).
Unique Item/Ship Tab: Limited to items that can't be sold on the market, one item per escrow. Say a Dread Guristas Ballistic Control Unit, or an assembled and kitted ship. Nice tabs like before... but maybe have item name, then user description, then price. You could forgo the name, if we could search.
Free for all: Same as now.
And I agree with one of the arguments against the 1% broker fee... if you're going to put that in place to equalize it to the market... escrows should last up to 90 days like the market. Also... I'm not sure how the fees work with modifying buy/sell orders... but the same should go with escrows.
Of course... I think search and filter applied to all open escrows would fix most of these complaints... I could just do a search for "Raven" and ("BPC" or "runs"), and I'll see every escrow selling a Raven BPC (hopefully... if you're selling a Raven BPC, and that filter wouldn't find you... you're description is bad).
Lazarus Tag'lim
CEO, GalacTECH Unlimited
Resident Corporation of Southern Deklein |
Par'Gellen
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Posted - 2005.09.20 11:49:00 -
[44]
Why not just fix the freaking market so we can sell whatever we want and have it seen by the entire universe? The whole escrow system is pointless in my opinion when you already have a market system that just needs a little fixing.
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Meehan
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Posted - 2005.09.21 06:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Why not just fix the freaking market so we can sell whatever we want and have it seen by the entire universe? The whole escrow system is pointless in my opinion when you already have a market system that just needs a little fixing.
Actually, yeah, this I agree with. Escrow has its charms though - it's like a fleamarket where you never know what's going to be offered.
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Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.09.21 06:47:00 -
[46]
The market is regional for many good reasons, including lag.
Making escrow more like the market is a terrible idea, beause it will encourage more people putting the crappiest stuff on Escrow.
I would far prefer escrow be kept as-is, and specialized BPC and rare-item markets added.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Fracking Beach
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Posted - 2005.09.21 06:51:00 -
[47]
I like the idea of having a 1% tax imposed on the escrow items. I think this would be the most simplest and effective way to make escrow scam free.
To make this even better, we could use the previously suggested "Escrow" skill idea: Escrow skill would decrease the tax percentage per level - eg. lvl 3 = 1 - 0.3 etc.
The blacklisting/ignoring suggested on this thread would/will not work, because most (if not all) escrow scammers use alts. I'm sure most of them recycle these scam-alts often.
I think majority of EVE players would agree that escrow needs a cleanup. Problem is that the most vocal opponents of this cleanup are here on the forum and I'm sure they have their agendas as to why escrow scamming should _not_ be made difficult...
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Braaage
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Posted - 2005.09.21 08:37:00 -
[48]
I doubt Escrow will be changed any, Contracts will be coming soon and IIRC replaces Escrow.
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online
*New - Building an Outpost |
Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.09.21 14:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: res0nance
Originally by: Trak Cranker
The first idea was excellent. 1% tax modified by whatever skills you have that counts towards normal market selling.
That does not rule out scamming, but at least makes it a risk/reward scenario.
Marking the sellers is a dead idea, and should have been before it left the keyboards. Almost all the scammers are shortlived alts.
OPs idea is excellent and easy.
So I kill some dude and he drops a faction repairer that I want to sell on escrow for 1b isk. I then have to pay 10m isk (1%) to make it visible for a very short period of time, a maximum of a week, and much less if it gets pushed off by newer escrows.
That's pretty hefty imo.
Resonance; Thats a somewhat fair objection. Based on the fact that the escrow is limited to seven days.
Otherwise it's just the same as the market works now. Without skills, it will cost you more than 1% to do it there.
So fewer days(the max 7 days is ofc also open for tweaking in that respect) AND cheaper on escrow but wider exposure. Sounds fair to me.
So I still champion the %age fee for selling on escrow. Whether it should then be 1% or something else.
Ok, what I really champion is the development of the market, so everything had to be be sold there(bar p2p ofc). Limited by regions and skills. But able to handle packs of items and players specific orders(Contracts anyone?).
The only thing speaking for the escrows existence aside the market is the possibility to scam and the interregional offering which goes against the whole market idea and market related skills, afaics.
Not saying scamming should go. But it should not be for free.
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Kaaii
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Posted - 2005.09.21 14:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: res0nance
Originally by: Trak Cranker
The first idea was excellent. 1% tax modified by whatever skills you have that counts towards normal market selling.
That does not rule out scamming, but at least makes it a risk/reward scenario.
Marking the sellers is a dead idea, and should have been before it left the keyboards. Almost all the scammers are shortlived alts.
OPs idea is excellent and easy.
So I kill some dude and he drops a faction repairer that I want to sell on escrow for 1b isk. I then have to pay 10m isk (1%) to make it visible for a very short period of time, a maximum of a week, and much less if it gets pushed off by newer escrows.
That's pretty hefty imo.
Whats hefty is your 1bil asking price....
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.09.21 15:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Phasics
people will still try sell a light missle for 100mil but it will say Light missle indescription so its easy to spot
This is not the problem, only foolish players falls for scams. The problem is that scams clutter the whole escrow list, making it hard to find one that is a genuine sale.
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Par'Gellen
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Posted - 2005.09.22 02:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 22/09/2005 02:24:51
Originally by: Derron Bel
The market is regional for many good reasons, including lag.
Trust me there are systems out there that handle far more transactions in 10 minutes than EVE's market sees in a month. Worst case spend a little of that subscription money and give it its own server or even a cluster.
Originally by: Derron Bel
Making escrow more like the market is a terrible idea, beause it will encourage more people putting the crappiest stuff on Escrow.
All the more reason to replace it with an improved market system on which scams are not possible or at least hard to pull off (shuttles for 9,000,000.00 isk).
Originally by: Derron Bel
I would far prefer escrow be kept as-is, and specialized BPC and rare-item markets added.
Just add those items to an improved market and have a one-stop searchable shop for everything that is accessible in space.
It's really a no-brainer when you think about it.
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Magnum III
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Posted - 2005.09.22 04:24:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Magnum III on 22/09/2005 04:25:41
Good idea /signed
But I don't care how it is done realy
These escrow scams are spam and need to be taken care of at any rate.
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Wanoah
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:57:00 -
[54]
I suspect they won't be making any radical changes to Escrow in the very near future: I'm expecting the functionality of the Escrow system to be more or less completely replaced by the new Formal Contracts system that they've been wanting to introduce since Castor. Maybe when Kali comes out (yes, I know contracts should have been in Exodus) Escrow will just be a bad memory.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at stars.
(Sig best viewed with Firefox)
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:10:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Caeden Nicomachean on 23/09/2005 18:10:47
An old topic, with a lot of different solutions.
1. Figure you could tax it, trim down the crud.
2. Or you could add filters, trim down the crud.
3. You could restrict escrow to folks in non-starter corps, trim down the crud.
Here is my take - you want criminals to be able to be criminals, and marks to be able to be marks.
But what we need is a method by which do-gooders can punish/police the scammers. Being evil/good is a choice, and the more of those decisions we give over to game mechanics (sentry guns, etc) the less of a player driven environment this is.
This is why I lean towards the third solution, because then I can sift through the crap for deals and scammers alike.
Scammers like scamming. People should be bitten by being foolish. I like killing scammers.
Lets perpetuate the circle.
*edit - typo
Etc.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:39:00 -
[56]
This debate is pointless. CCP has already stated that the ellusive "contract"-system in Exodus (where? where?) is going to replace the escrow system.
No development will be made to a system that is going to be replaced soon(tm).
- NoNamium
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:50:00 -
[57]
Originally by: NoNamium
This debate is pointless. CCP has already stated that the ellusive "contract"-system in Exodus (where? where?) is going to replace the escrow system.
No development will be made to a system that is going to be replaced soon(tm).
- NoNamium
The idea is to influence how that not-yet-implemented system works. 
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:54:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Winterblink
Simplest solution: look to eBay. Let us rate sellers positively or negatively. If you turned Escrow into EVEBay, it would be easier to tell who to buy from.
Also, give an option to adjust viewing tolerances of the seller ratings to filter out the scammers.
Almost a good idea, except for one word... ALTS.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.09.23 23:30:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dezzyb0y
Edited by: Dezzyb0y on 19/09/2005 11:32:03
Originally by: Phasics
acutally simplest way to fix escrow is to remove the ability for people to write ina description.
and just have the description to default to a pop out menu that list every single item in the escrow as you scroll over with mouse.
no more naming = no more scamming
people will still try sell a light missle for 100mil but it will say Light missle indescription so its easy to spot
Omg dont start removing scaming aswell, thats like stupid. Theres a reason nobodys done that yet, BECAUSE IT AINT ******* ILLEGAL STOP WHINING.
[Edit] Your all a bunch of homobears... get over it, start reading stuff, what you need to see is there, if you actually took 30seconds to go (inspect merchandse) it would tell you what it is. Stop being lazy and if you want to whine go cry in a corner somewhere.
Ok obviously your a scamer but to try and justify something there are only "x" amount of escrows allowed to show up on escrow. The million and one scams are droping off legit escrows making the system exploited and interfering with my gaming enjoyment.
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Jemba'k Ko'cha
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Posted - 2005.09.23 23:47:00 -
[60]
simply adding in a search function and a filter function, as suggsested by someone else would help considerably. also allowing people to block users' escrows from the list would help. If one person gets more than say, 100 people blocking them, then CCP look at the items on offer and if its a blatent scam then the account gets banned as do any others that link with it (same email addy, same IP etc).
for some reason CCP dont seem to believe in search functions though. There are some in game wich are really handy, but on the bleedin forum and in escrow there are none where they are needed. at the end of the day if i know what i am looking for i should be able to filter out EVERYTHING else and only see those items that i searched for.
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