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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
30
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Posted - 2011.10.18 06:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Uh...solar wind FTW.
From Wikipedia:
'The solar wind is a stream of charged particles ejected from the upper atmosphere of the Sun.'
And the crew of the space shuttle, on some of its early missions, noted that the shuttle's heat-shield absorbed heat form the sun and expanded, producing an audible 'roaring' noise within the spacecraft.
Besides, if there was no way for heat to radiate in a vacuum, Earth would be a block of ice.
Uh, did you read what you quoted? Akirei Scytale wrote: space does have some particles in it, but they are so few and far between that it would be meaningless.
the solar wind is so unbelievably sparse that you'd have to be silly to factor it in here. do you have any idea how large a solar sail needs to be to pull a tiny little mass, like, say, 1kg? and we are talking about radiators. a radiator will basically not function in a vacuum, simple as. there simply isn't nearly enough matter in space for thermal energy to ever transfer in significant amounts. if you wanted to cool off in space, you would have to use very different methods, such as turning that thermal energy intro electromagnetic radiation. also, please read what you quoted again. heat is *not* being directly transferred from the sun to space to the earth. it is radiation striking the earth and energizing its particles. the space between the earth and sun is still pretty much 0-¦K. here, go buy a thermos. put scalding hot food into it, seal it, and let it sit there for a few hours. open it up later. you just witnessed how any object encapsulated in a vacuum (almost encapsulated, in this case) will not cool off. If a "radiator in space" worked, then the thermos would cool off just as quickly as if it were a metal jug.
Sesame Street On:
EVERYTHING radiates heat as far as its temperature is above absolute zero.
A space RADIATOR is designed to RADIATE heat and it does so because its temperature is above absolute zero.
It really isn't that difficult to comprehend.
If above zero, then it radiates. Thus the radiators radiate and that's how they release heat to the environment -through radiation.
The only special thing going on with space radiators is how they collect heat from around the ship and radiate it more proficently than the ship's skin, which is thermically insulated to prevent overheating from sunlight exposure (at least within in Earth's orbit). I should had never left X3: Reunion |

Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
109
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Posted - 2011.10.18 07:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Yeah... how exactly are nuclear reactors cooled again?
Through a sealed heat exchange system, as any coolant which comes in contact with spent fuel will be highly radioactive, it can not be pumped out. As such, the coolant is instead pumped through a radiator of some sort.
In space, the radiator would be designed to be a (near) perfect black body - losing heat by radiation.
In real life on Earth, this radiator is probably instead part of a secondary heat exchange system - the coolant of which can be safely disposed of since the secondary coolant does not actually come in contact with radioactive materials. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
636
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Posted - 2011.10.18 07:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:and we are talking about radiators. a radiator will basically not function in a vacuum, simple as. GǪwhich is why everything we send into space has them. Oh wait, they do that because radiators do work in space GÇö because they help radiate (hint, hint) away heat.
Quote:the space between the earth and sun is still pretty much 0-¦K. No. Space has no temperature. And if it did, by using the definition of heat transfer equilibrium, it wouldn't be 0-¦K.
Quote:here, go buy a thermos. put scalding hot food into it, seal it, and let it sit there for a few hours. open it up later. you just witnessed how any object encapsulated in a vacuum (almost encapsulated, in this case) will not cool off. If a "radiator in space" worked, then the thermos would cool off just as quickly as if it were a metal jug. Fun fact: the liquid inside will have cooled because radiation works there just as it does in space: it transfers heat slowly from a higher to a lower source. The reason it doesn't cool off as quickly as if it were a metal jug is because that jug uses conduction and convection GÇö two overall much more efficient methods of heat transfer than simple radiation. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
163
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Posted - 2011.10.18 07:25:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Hmm... seems horribly inefficient when compared to convective cooling... I wonder if some sort of a dummy load to suck out the most energy kinetically as possible would suffice to cool the secondary enough... of course the energy captured by the dummy load would still have to be dealt with...
We are talking about the Minmatar here!
And yeah heat can be lost in space. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
25
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Posted - 2011.10.18 16:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Tippia wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:This is not solar panels. This is cooling radiators for their old nuclear reactors. That wouldn't work very well... can't transfer heat that well into a vacuum. That's why they're so big and frilly GÇö more surface to radiate from. there are zero particles in a vacuum, hence zero ways to radiate heat. space does have some particles in it, but they are so few and far between that it would be meaningless. heat is vibrating particles. they aren't part of a radiator system. they are either solar panels, heat *gatherers* (absorbing sunlight), or just there for the same reason everything in EVE looks the way it does - because an artist thought they looked cool.
Space is not an absolute vacuum-- the interstellar medium still contains hydrogen/helium plasma, and a few atoms of hydrogen per cubic meter. And yes, the sun does radiate heat energy -- otherwise, our litte blue Marble would be about as inhabitable as Neptune.
http://www.universetoday.com/65353/what-is-the-coldest-planet-of-our-solar-system/
Read that article carefully: solar radiation. Before it leaves the sun, it's already radiant energy.
I respectfully suggest you brush up on basic physics before continuing this discussion. |

Kengutsi Akira
55
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:13:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:This is not solar panels. This is cooling radiators for their old nuclear reactors. I'm picking up a lot of radiation... they're operating without core containment. Well, that's feng kuang de, that's suicide... Proof positive Minmatar are Reavers
Anyone know chinese an if I got that phonetically correct? I got it from one of the many "learn chinese by watching Firefly BS sites" lol
What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
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Satav
Latinum Exports
66
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:32:00 -
[67] - Quote
Well the solar panels would certainly explain why Minmatar don't have any cap problems........
______________________________________________________________________________________
"Your Erebus is docked? How did that happen?" "It took a lot of pushing and grease....." |

Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2011.10.19 19:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Notice the more heavily shield tanked ships have more of them....
Maelstrom, Cyclone e.t.c.
You don't think perhaps that they could be shield emitters do you? |

I Accidentally YourShip
Suzuka Heavy Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 20:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:heat is vibrating particles No. Heat is a form of energy. In matter, it generally manifests in the form vibration GÇö kinetic energy, if you want to simplify it.
Just to be a nit-picky bastard, heat is the transference of thermal energy. Thermal energy is average of all the vibrating particles of an object. Radiant energy you feel from the sun on earth is the energy in the infrared spectrum that the sun outputs, along with the other huge range of EM radiation it puts out, largely blocked by our magnetosphere.
Thermal energy - Average of vibrating particles in matter Heat - Transference of thermal energy, explicitly the energy being transferred, not the end result of thermal energy in an object (which is what we feel).
Radiation is inefficient, even in open, still air a radiator contacts the air and transfers heat by convection (which is really just conduction with a fluid that happens to move). Take away that air and you are left with pure radiation.
The only reason the sun is so warm to us is its sheer magnitude.
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I Accidentally YourShip
Suzuka Heavy Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 20:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:That wouldn't work very well... can't transfer heat that well into a vacuum. You mean liquid vacuum huh? Dont forget that there is no usual physics in New Eden Universe. Besides there is lot of objects in EVE space that you cannot call "usual vacuum' like gas clouds, for example.
The vacuum in New Eden is apparently like regular space vacuum. What causes the submarine-like movements we see and experience with our ships is apparently due to the gravitational drag of our warp drives in relation to the other massive objects around us. Warp drives are constantly on once we leave the station, being too complex to reactivate and deactivate outside of a controlled station environment and containment fields are used to suppress the warp core until we need to utilize it, causing massive gravitational drag. Or something to that effect. I read it in some EVE lol-lore page a while ago. |

Kietay Ayari
Dangerously Inebriated Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 20:54:00 -
[71] - Quote
I don't know almost anything about EVE lore, but if what people are saying about Minmatar using nuclear reactors is true, then the radiator idea still doesn't make sense. Yes radiators can radiate heat without convection, but on something like the ISS or the Apollo missions. The ISS does not have to radiate heat from a nuclear reaction. Radiation is so inefficient there is no way it would be able to effectively cool a nuclear reaction.
o_o Kind of scary how many people don't understand how heat is transferred though. Either way I will just pretend they are speed fins and all the Minmatar pilots are teenagers. |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
35
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kietay Ayari wrote:I don't know almost anything about EVE lore, but if what people are saying about Minmatar using nuclear reactors is true, then the radiator idea still doesn't make sense. Yes radiators can radiate heat without convection, but on something like the ISS or the Apollo missions. The ISS does not have to radiate heat from a nuclear reaction. Radiation is so inefficient there is no way it would be able to effectively cool a nuclear reaction.
o_o Kind of scary how many people don't understand how heat is transferred though. Either way I will just pretend they are speed fins and all the Minmatar pilots are teenagers.
Not really. Radiation proficency is proportional to temperature, and thus the radiators oculd just be designed to operate at high temperatures (say, 400-¦) and still be able to keep the reactor functioning. Also, if a radiator can't radiate enough... make it bigger! I should had never left X3: Reunion |

Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
26
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Posted - 2011.10.19 22:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
Kietay Ayari wrote:I don't know almost anything about EVE lore, but if what people are saying about Minmatar using nuclear reactors is true, then the radiator idea still doesn't make sense. Yes radiators can radiate heat without convection, but on something like the ISS or the Apollo missions. The ISS does not have to radiate heat from a nuclear reaction. Radiation is so inefficient there is no way it would be able to effectively cool a nuclear reaction.
o_o Kind of scary how many people don't understand how heat is transferred though. Either way I will just pretend they are speed fins and all the Minmatar pilots are teenagers.
Well, duh! Minmatar ships are red! Red ones go faster!  |
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