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Jovat
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
5
   |
Posted - 2013.04.19 00:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
So what's the rationale behind not having a warp to zero autopilot?
It relegates certain professions to essentially afk activities (hauling) and it provides little or no advantage for those who are actually interacting with the game, except with alts to web freighters.
Why do people keep asking for warp to zero autopilot?
Because doing more than 3 jumps becomes ludicrously tedious. Select the gate, hit D, read internet until jump. Wash, rinse, repeat. On some ships modules are activated after gate cloak (tank, cloak) but not much interaction.
I propose a warp to zero autopilot with the caveat that the warp drive needs to navigate subspace disruptions that need to be avoided: Every vessel that traverses a path disrupt space for some time and slows down warp speed. Pilots then would turn on autopilot but if they don't alter the path from the default, the face a significant warp speed delay and/or capacitor cost. The solar system map would then have a heat map of lines where there's the most disruption that you want to avoid.
The job of the time sensitive pilot would be to place route waypoint pins for intrasystem routes that avoid the spatial disruption that slow down travel time, while more lazy pilots can go make a sandwich and then come back to do more route planning.
Ganking is still entirely possible, on gate exits. I propose a subspace disruption generator module to force early exit of autopiloting, similar to warp disruption bubbles but that doesn't affect actively piloted ships (module activation indicates active piloting in a system) to address the loss of gate entry scan/gank doctrine. Further, subspace disruption generators can be used to force larger levels of
The purpose of this is to make long travel times more interesting, faster for interactive play, possible for AFK with similar risk and travel time penalty to today, and to make making bookmarks for safespots more interesting less tedious (placing route pins opens up more possibilities for making bookmarks than the static warp between celestial options today along with providing some intel on most widely used routes (the lines of subspace disruption indicate where the largest mass vessels have travelled.)
Probably far too much dev work to implement, but I thought I'd suggest it. |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
Trans-Stellar Industries
80
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
So, stay at the keys.
There are some of us ... some few, probably, since warp-to-0 is easier ... who still want warp-to-20km.
I remember how to make insta's. I'm ready for it. I bet the server could handle BM copying so much better now, and we've got a folder system and all.
Seriously, don't make it easier to afk. Make it harder. AFK only works in hisec, anyhow, and even then its fairly naive. |
Jovat
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 00:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm guessing you didn't actually read the proposal.
If someone hits autopilot and goes away under this proposal, they take at least as long as today if not longer, and is vulnerable to to ganking just as much as today. This isn't for AFK pilots, as they'll get pulled out of warp scanned, and ganked if there's anything to gank them for.
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Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 03:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
AFK = Another Free Kill
It's just a bad thing to do, especially in EVE, and should not be encouraged by the game mechanics in any way.
"A carrot on a stick will lead a donkey on forever, but not if the donkey is dead. Make the carrot as big as you want, that donkey isn't going anywhere." |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
407
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 04:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think that the warp to 0 would be good by itself. What is the good point on allowing the autopilot to warp to 10? more time for gankers in hi-sec? more waiting time for players that have no patience to make the 30 hi-sec jumps one by one?
In 0.0 and Null-sec you never should use it for well known reasons. You have to react fast on each gate, especially if there are bubbles or gate-camps.
If you have something valuable in your cargo, you will not use autopilot. Also you would have to activate cloak, hardeners on every gate even if the autopilot would warp you to 0.
In hi-sec / low-sec most profitable ganks occur not when the ship is arriving in the gate, but when it is about to leave.
AFK = Another Free Kill.
If you read this article: http://evenews24.com/2013/04/16/mabrick-i-quit-eve/
you will se that one of the most common reason why people don't play eve or why they leave eve is the extremely long travels.
I think a auto-warp to 0 would be beneficial to eve.
If there are people that risk braking the EULA just to have a warp to 0 so they can avoid more boredom. I think that maybe is time for CCP to look at it.
Warp to 10 is not a good feature of EVE, it is bad for the game.
If you compare the warp to 10 and the warp to 0 what are their good and bad points?
The warp to 10 only make player bored with eve.
Please read these!
> New POS system
> New SOV system |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
Trans-Stellar Industries
82
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 04:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:I think that the warp to 0 would be good by itself. What is the good point on allowing the autopilot to warp to 10? more time for gankers in hi-sec? more waiting time for players that have no patience to make the 30 hi-sec jumps one by one? In 0.0 and Null-sec you never should use it for well known reasons. You have to react fast on each gate, especially if there are bubbles or gate-camps. If you have something valuable in your cargo, you will not use autopilot. Also you would have to activate cloak, hardeners on every gate even if the autopilot would warp you to 0. In hi-sec / low-sec most profitable ganks occur not when the ship is arriving in the gate, but when it is about to leave. AFK = Another Free Kill. If you read this article: http://evenews24.com/2013/04/16/mabrick-i-quit-eve/you will se that one of the most common reason why people don't play eve or why they leave eve is the extremely long travels. I think a auto-warp to 0 would be beneficial to eve. If there are people that risk braking the EULA just to have a warp to 0 so they can avoid more boredom. I think that maybe is time for CCP to look at it. Warp to 10 is not a good feature of EVE, it is bad for the game. If you compare the warp to 10 and the warp to 0 what are their good and bad points? The warp to 10 only make player bored with eve.
Hmm. No perspective.
EvE is growing more every day. Steadily climbing. If CCP wanted a massive amount of subscriptions to be money hungry 'focus only on the dollar' like American companies are, there are a LOT of ways they could do that.
I'd personally have one patient, intelligent and careful character for every 20 impatient, idiotic and downright ******** player that we could get from 'those other MMO's'.
Damn sure means less posts like this, or cries for less war decs, or please from players who won't stick with EvE for more than three months anyway cause they'll lose interest to change the game to fit their current desire or wishes.
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Jovat
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 05:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Again, this proposal punishes AFK pilots exactly as much as it does today. I'm not sure why people assume I'm suggesting an easy AFK switch, or why people get so reactionary about this issue.
The problem with traveling is its tedious, and I was proposing a system where it was interactive and not as tedious. |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep
The Methodical Alliance
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 05:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
I just did read that article (it's terrible but hey if Riverini wants to let that sort of thing on there who am I to question it), and there is one mention of travel time, and the person who is quoted says this:
Random EN24 Articles Quote wrote:GÇ£The reason I dropped Eve Online and never looked back was the travel time. The time it takes to navigate to the next acceleration gate in a mission just got tedious. It turns out that as you get bigger and better ships, they get slower, so the problem gets worse. My destroyer was slower than my smaller frigate, while my cruiser was slower than my destroyer. I realized that it would only get worse and never better as I progressed to bigger, GÇ£betterGÇ¥ ships. So I quit cold turkey. If they ever change that hierarchy, I would be happy to try again, because I did have fun, for a while, but until then, I donGÇÖt like having my time wasted for me.GÇ¥
His logic was that the bigger and better the ship, the faster it should go. Not the small zippy little frigates but the big lumbering battlships should be the fast ones. That is the sort of mindset that Eve doesn't need. And also this doesn't support your warp to 0 idea... He distinctly says that it was the slowboating to mission gates that he hated, not the warping.
The only thing that warp to 0 would affect is afk haulers, and people who gatecamp in high sec looking for tasty freighters/haulers to gank when they are afk. The fact is that people afk are bad for the game. We want more involvement not less.
This idea is bad and will never be implemented. |
Donedy
Snuff Box
Urine Alliance
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 06:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:I think that the warp to 0 would be good by itself. What is the good point on allowing the autopilot to warp to 10? more time for gankers in hi-sec? more waiting time for players that have no patience to make the 30 hi-sec jumps one by one? In 0.0 and Null-sec you never should use it for well known reasons. You have to react fast on each gate, especially if there are bubbles or gate-camps. If you have something valuable in your cargo, you will not use autopilot. Also you would have to activate cloak, hardeners on every gate even if the autopilot would warp you to 0. In hi-sec / low-sec most profitable ganks occur not when the ship is arriving in the gate, but when it is about to leave. AFK = Another Free Kill. If you read this article: http://evenews24.com/2013/04/16/mabrick-i-quit-eve/you will se that one of the most common reason why people don't play eve or why they leave eve is the extremely long travels. I think a auto-warp to 0 would be beneficial to eve. If there are people that risk braking the EULA just to have a warp to 0 so they can avoid more boredom. I think that maybe is time for CCP to look at it. Warp to 10 is not a good feature of EVE, it is bad for the game. If you compare the warp to 10 and the warp to 0 what are their good and bad points? The warp to 10 only make player bored with eve.
Quote:GÇ£The reason I dropped Eve Online and never looked back was the travel time. The time it takes to navigate to the next acceleration gate in a mission just got tedious. It turns out that as you get bigger and better ships, they get slower, so the problem gets worse. My destroyer was slower than my smaller frigate, while my cruiser was slower than my destroyer. I realized that it would only get worse and never better as I progressed to bigger, GÇ£betterGÇ¥ ships. So I quit cold turkey. If they ever change that hierarchy, I would be happy to try again, because I did have fun, for a while, but until then, I donGÇÖt like having my time wasted for me.GÇ¥
He is speaking about missions...
Also looks like this guy didnt even piloted a battleship (he may be didnt even played a month), so one of the "main reasons" about quitting eve, i dont think so, at all.
Just to say I completely disagree with warp to 0 autopilot,it would be just encouring afk as someone already said. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination
Nulli Secunda
187
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 06:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jovat wrote:I'm guessing you didn't actually read the proposal.
If someone hits autopilot and goes away under this proposal, they take at least as long as today if not longer, and is vulnerable to to ganking just as much as today. This isn't for AFK pilots, as they'll get pulled out of warp scanned, and ganked if there's anything to gank them for. So your idea changes autopilot to take the same or more time compared to today, and have the same risks ...
I'm glad this won't get implemented, because it's not just a waste of dev. time compared to other areas, but also a waste of dev. time compared to the dev.s drinking coffee in the lounge.
Besides, if you autopilot anywhere, you do it exactly because you're afk - especially now where you have "warp & jump on contact" in one button. The reason why autopilot slowboats the last kilometers to the gate is so it's better to travel yourself in both time and security. Removing the security aspect of autopilot (Moving it all over to time lost) means that players who doesn't play the game loses nothing compared to those who do. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 06:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jovat wrote:The problem with traveling is its tedious, and I was proposing a system where it was even more tedious.
fixd that for you. |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 07:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Given you state it that it'll still take the same amount of time or longer to AP a route under you idea. One then has to ask, why is this change even needed?
Seems like its entire intention is to remove the ~14km slow boat trip to the out gate and reduce the amount of time a ship is physically vulnerable with an afk pilot.
No change required. AP is fine as is.
... |
Felix Judge
Gallente Volunteer Defense Forces
Tribal Band
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 08:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
The autopilot is bascially a legal travelling bot. (Which mostly aids traders.)
I guess that CCP just made a decision of where to draw a line to make their own bot inefficient enough to not be appealing to general botting practitioners. |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
81
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 08:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
The one who choose to forget the history lessons, condemned to repeat them. |
Jitalt Pirkibo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 09:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jovat wrote:I'm guessing you didn't actually read the proposal.
If someone hits autopilot and goes away under this proposal, they take at least as long as today if not longer, and is vulnerable to to ganking just as much as today. This isn't for AFK pilots, as they'll get pulled out of warp scanned, and ganked if there's anything to gank them for.
Except one wouldn't apparently know who is APing and who isn't - that's the core of your proposal.
And in what way exactly would plotting a subwarp-route and watching your ship warp be more engaging than pressing one button and watching your ship warp? It would just add some more tedious actions before you're able to return to your browser...
The ONLY way to make travel less tedious is AP-to-0. Which would be a broken mechanic.
So No. All the way. I don't want "engaging" minigames either. |
Fearghaz Tiwas
ZOMBIEBEACHPARTYPATROL
Circle-Of-Two
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'd give up on this one mate. Maybe if you made AP to 0 be 2 or maybe 3 times slower it might be acceptable, but it seems like a change for changes sake. AFK AP piloting should be dangerous. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
43
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
autopilot is bad anyway, and AFK shouldn't be tolerated in this game.
one who use autopilot is AFK.
one good point tho, when you have to travel several systems, it gets boring.
then if it gets boring, to the point ppl want to afk the whole time they do it, i propose to change the travel time.
2 way to do that, shorten the distances (all of them) but this could make some distance so short that slowboat would be possible, would shorten grids etc....
i propose the 2nd one:
mutliply all the current warp speed by 2 (ie frig 12 AU/s, Bigger 6AU/s intys 27AU/s)
you shorten the travel time, in a balanced manner, without breaking the game (subwarp speed remain untouched obviously).
and you get rid o the autopilot, after all, it is nothing else than a macro.
another good side of this, you solve the current issue with all the ships that have not a rounded warp speed, the 0.5au/s is currently not applied cause of a bug |
Line Khagah
Les Boucaniers de Caprica
Silent Ascension
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 14:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
good idea greatly increased the speed of warp
I also add a x8 skill to reduce the distance to come to the gate during an AP
, -2km per level, at level 5, arrived at 5 km from the gate |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
43
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 14:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Line Khagah wrote:good idea greatly increased the speed of warp
I also add a x8 skill to reduce the distance to come to the gate during an AP
, -2km per level, at level 5, arrived at 5 km from the gate
imao, AP should be trashed, it is of no use for any sane person.
using it outside of high is suicide, and in high, you go 2*faster manually doing it, so it is useless |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
Trans-Stellar Industries
86
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 14:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:Line Khagah wrote:good idea greatly increased the speed of warp
I also add a x8 skill to reduce the distance to come to the gate during an AP
, -2km per level, at level 5, arrived at 5 km from the gate imao, AP should be trashed, it is of no use for any sane person. using it outside of high is suicide, and in high, you go 2*faster manually doing it, so it is useless
I actually will agree with this. Just take out autopilot altogether.
Either fly there manually, at the keys, or don't fly. |
StoneCold
Somali Coast Guard Authority
132
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 14:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
I always took the manual 'warp to 0' as the advantage for active playing over the autopilot.
I remember times where no autopilot was ingame and you where only able to warp @ 15 to a celestial object (if you had no bookmark at hand).
It-¦s allready easy mode.
For Hire
Psychotic Monk for CSM |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
43
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 15:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
StoneCold wrote:I always took the manual 'warp to 0' as the advantage for active playing over the autopilot.
I remember times where no autopilot was ingame and you where only able to warp @ 15 to a celestial object (if you had no bookmark at hand).
It-¦s allready easy mode.
tbh, i would love to see this back, i started the game with the current system, but i think i would enjoy it way more without the ability to warp @0 on the celestials (unless BM indeed).
for pvp players, this would gave them the "home" advantage, wich is really needed in low where actually holding the ground doesn't give you clear advantages like sov can do |
Dani Lizardov
Otbor Chereshka
GaNg BaNg TeAm
13
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 08:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here is one very obvious idea for a feature.
Add Special ability to Freighters to be able to warp at 0 with Auto Pilot.
Just Freighters.
Why?
Because it will make 2300 account owners happy :)
Because it will make logistics much more attractive.
(Like saving 30 mins off the 20 jumps route )
It wont disrupt the pirates ganging.
CCP want to improve the game, maybe they 1-st need to start to play it.
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 08:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ruze wrote:seth Hendar wrote:Line Khagah wrote:good idea greatly increased the speed of warp
I also add a x8 skill to reduce the distance to come to the gate during an AP
, -2km per level, at level 5, arrived at 5 km from the gate imao, AP should be trashed, it is of no use for any sane person. using it outside of high is suicide, and in high, you go 2*faster manually doing it, so it is useless I actually will agree with this. Just take out autopilot altogether. Either fly there manually, at the keys, or don't fly.
Yes, because a 30+ jump trip is OH SO ENGAGING.....
AP is fine, you know the risks, you pay your money and take your chance. I'd not AP in a well fit tengu, but I'd DAMNED sure AP in a brick tank BC which would take a billion-odd isk to take down.
The afk hate in the thread is good too. I'm at work right now yet my PI is churning.....hatersgonnahate.jpg |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
357
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 08:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
You know, you're basically asking to be able to play the game without actually playing it.
If you don't want to play, just Alt F4
G££ <= Me |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 08:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Altrue wrote:You know, you're basically asking to be able to play the game without actually playing it.
If you don't want to play, just Alt F4
Or to turn it on it's head - they're asking for the dull, boring bits to be reduced so they can have more fun.
Not that I think the idea is a good one, but I certainly cannot deny that high sec travelling is soul crushingly boring. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
43
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 09:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Altrue wrote:You know, you're basically asking to be able to play the game without actually playing it.
If you don't want to play, just Alt F4 Or to turn it on it's head - they're asking for the dull, boring bits to be reduced so they can have more fun. Not that I think the idea is a good one, but I certainly cannot deny that high sec travelling is soul crushingly boring.
hence my proposal about the warp speed to be double than the current speed, making the long travel less boring cause faster
then the AP will be made useless and thus, can be removed |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
800
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 14:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
This proposal is a terrible idea. You want it to be basically exactly the same as it is now, but make it harder for suicide gankers and anyone else trying to kill someone who's stupidly on autopilot... at the cost of ridiculous amounts of development time.
Everyone loses.
Edit: Oh, and the idea of increasing warp speed drastically for everyone that isn't autopiloting? Awful idea. Warp timings are integral to the state of PVP as it is now; you would not like the results of making all warping that much faster. Not one bit.
Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1411
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Altrue wrote:
If you don't want to play, just Alt F4
Why would turning on my invuln have anything to do with not playing?
quit is [ctrl]+[shift]+q (by default) 
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
141
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 22:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jovat wrote:Again, this proposal punishes AFK pilots exactly as much as it does today. I'm not sure why people assume I'm suggesting an easy AFK switch, or why people get so reactionary about this issue.
The problem with traveling is its tedious, and I was proposing a system where it was interactive and not as tedious. If you want convenient travel, there are trade offs, like flying in at 15km. If you want quick travel, there are trade offs, like executing the jumps manually.
Everything is already implemented for your flight choices. There doesn't need a "warp to 0 but don't jump". Click "warp to" button = land at 0 and not jump.
This stuff isn't rocket science.
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