| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hippey
   |
Posted - 2005.09.21 22:25:00 -
[1]
Cause it's really dull how everytime I fight everyone they're always armor tanked. And always 1600mm plates on cruisers. That's not right, that shouldn't be allowed. And armor plates need another penalty rather then just speed. They need a mass increase. Because really that is what you're doing, you're adding thicker, heavier armor. And have the 1600mm plates add 10million kg. to a 110mil kg BS that's not that much, but for a cruiser, that's 2/3 extra mass, which would seriously offset the fact that cruisers can fit these things on.
My opinion.
-------------------------------------------
If you do nothing to stop slavery, you do everything to support it!
|
Bedrock
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 22:28:00 -
[2]
I see nothing wrong with armor tanking. If you know player A is known to armor tank, why not bring in friend B and have him suck the cap out.
[Please support my 'AFK Indicator' idea!!] |
Hippey
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 22:36:00 -
[3]
Because the armor tankers can have mid slots for ECM's and can take on both of these people easily.
-------------------------------------------
If you do nothing to stop slavery, you do everything to support it!
|
babylonstew
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 22:39:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Hippey
Because the armor tankers can have mid slots for ECM's and can take on both of these people easily.
correct me if im wrong, but if they have thier meds for ECM, they aint tranking long without cap anyway right?
Quoted From MouseOnMars
Especially the Machariel, which can cast level 1 sh*t your pants upon appearing on the battlefield |
DrunkenOne
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 23:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hippey
Because the armor tankers can have mid slots for ECM's and can take on both of these people easily.
Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
|
Dimitri Forgroth
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 23:07:00 -
[6]
lol.. *sigs*
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
DPS Sheet |
Necrologic
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 23:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Hippey
Because the armor tankers can have mid slots for ECM's and can take on both of these people easily.
Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
|
DWCougho
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 23:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Hippey
Because the armor tankers can have mid slots for ECM's and can take on both of these people easily.
Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
Quality reply.
|
KillmAll187
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 23:40:00 -
[9]
Why doesn't CCP nerf the shield tankers. I mean than can fit a FULL tank and fit damage mods. 
|
Ten'ketel
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 23:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ten''ketel on 21/09/2005 23:45:17
yes and shield tankers can fit large extenders and large boosters on cruisers along with damage mods, cap relays, power and cpu mods . . . i fail to see your point
_____
i hate arguing with people that are wrong, and it seems to happen all the time. |
Mr Floppyknickers
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 00:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hippey
Cause it's really dull how everytime I fight everyone they're always armor tanked. And always 1600mm plates on cruisers. That's not right, that shouldn't be allowed. And armor plates need another penalty rather then just speed. They need a mass increase. Because really that is what you're doing, you're adding thicker, heavier armor. And have the 1600mm plates add 10million kg. to a 110mil kg BS that's not that much, but for a cruiser, that's 2/3 extra mass, which would seriously offset the fact that cruisers can fit these things on.
My opinion.
Just because someone is diffucult to fight does not mean a nerf is needed. They may have been just perfectly suited to counter you, your set up could be wanting, or any other number of reasons, but asking CCP to step in and make your life easier is not the answer. However, in the intrests of being informed and accurate please answer the following.
Question: What were you attacking this plated cruiser with? Ship, weapons, set up. And, to the best of your ability, what guesstimate of a set-up did the cruiser seem to be using.
Doings so will help prove or disprove your case. For all we know you're miffed because your t1 frigate couldn't kill a tank/hardned vexor fielding nos and full drones, something a T1 frig is not likely to do without some major tactics or luck. Or you may have been in a BS unable to kill a T1 cruiser, something you should be able to manage without much difficulty provided you have the skill and equipment needed to do so.
As for the ECM reference. Sure, but it has been pointed out already that they couldn't sustain the tank very long and this is for two reasons. ECM high cap sucking nastiness, and only native regen can't keep up with an apporpriate level rep or any ecm. So even if you get target jammed he's gotta blow major cap to do it, cap he can't sustain. Then again if you can't hit him then his armor rep is not the issue, ECM is. Should that now have some nerf/consiquence to go with it (beyond the massive cap drain making them hard to use as is, refrencing burst-type here) that makes it easier for you?
Yes, in EVE anything can be countered. That's the fun bit about EVE. There is no sure fire win solution. You can tip the odds in your favor, but nothing can guarantee a victory. Adapt and evolve. CCP doesn't need to do anything here. Please provide the requested info if you can, that will help clarify your view more.
|
Sorja
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 00:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: KillmAll187
Why doesn't CCP nerf the shield tankers. I mean they can fit a FULL tank and fit damage mods.
Originally by: Ten'ketel
yes and shield tankers can fit large extenders and large boosters on cruisers along with damage mods, cap relays, power and cpu mods . . . i fail to see your point
Because of cap/grid issues?
Kill mails |
Hippey
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 02:59:00 -
[13]
Oh yes and no one sees a problem with the fact cruisers can fit 1600mm plates on? I mean yeah a cruiser could fit a large extender but it gives nowhere NEAR the hitpoints of a 1600mm plate. Not to mention, mid slots are a luxury. I mean amarr HAC's get a buttload of resists in the first place and then their bonuses are even more resists! Look at the sacrilege and .. ah hell, the AF, whatever it name me.
Look I know all of you who are flaming me are big fans of armor tanking and you don't want it taken away. Most of you prolly fly raxes, whatever. The point is, armor tanking is better then shield tanking and it's especially better considering the speed penalty does NOT change. The biggest problem with it however is that EVERYONE is using it. There is no more variety in ship setups. There's no penalty for stacking plates and hardeners like there is for gyros/heat sinks.
I mean seriously, every single damn ship I've fought in the last week, which is in the neighbourhood of 30, has been EXACTLY the same. Webber, scrambler, tracking disruptor/AB/MWD/ECM, small/med guns (small guns on cruisers being as equally effective as medium guns is pretty pathetic but that's another discussion), NOSes and you guessed it.. plates, hardeners and repairers.
A cookie cutter gaming experience if I've ever had one. It's depressing.
-------------------------------------------
If you do nothing to stop slavery, you do everything to support it!
|
Justin Cody
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 03:10:00 -
[14]
well then go set up ships differentely and PWN those people with the cookie cutter setups.
Thanks for your input in to the EVE's most whiney citizen's forum. please re log, then log in again and post something constructive other than *nerf (insert ship/module name here)*
"Ill armed and half starved, they were still desperate men, to whom danger had lost all fears: for what was death that they should shun it to cling to such a life as theirs?"--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle |
Sorja
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 03:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Justin Cody
well then go set up ships differentely and PWN those people with the cookie cutter setups.
How?
Since you seem very creative, why not bring a setup that can defeat a Thorax MK2 or Vexxor MK2 with a Moa MK2.
Just an example...
Kill mails |
Uncle Chuckles
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 03:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Hippey
Because the armor tankers can have mid slots for ECM's and can take on both of these people easily.
Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
|
Garreck
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 04:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sorja
How?
Since you seem very creative, why not bring a setup that can defeat a Thorax MK2 or Vexxor MK2 with a Moa MK2.
Just an example...
With the thorax's drone bay slated to be cut in half, ecm suddenly becomes a viable solution...
Garreck
Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Xeris
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 04:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Justin Cody
well then go set up ships differentely and PWN those people with the cookie cutter setups.
How?
Since you seem very creative, why not bring a setup that can defeat a Thorax MK2 or Vexxor MK2 with a Moa MK2.
Just an example...
Jesus, the stats havn't been finalized nor the ships implimented and you're already *****ing.
|
Randay
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 04:24:00 -
[19]
please nerf plates, each plate should remove a mid slot and also give 25% max cap penalty.
-------------------------------------------
"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
Minuz1
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 04:32:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Minuz1 on 22/09/2005 04:37:22
-Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics, even if you win, you are still a retard |
Semkhet
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 07:25:00 -
[21]
Scratched record. 90% of players who ask for a nerf do it against a setup they did'n learn to counter yet. What about using your brain instead of asking devs to compense your intellectual lazyness ?
Each race has specific advantages/disadvantages. You choosed a race, and trained for it. Be mature, and either avoid fights against specific setups who negate your advantages, or adapt your setup to cope with a particular opponent.
There's a current trend to design setups with high damage dealing instead of opting for balanced setups who sacrify offense in favor of adaptability & reliability. Look at all the people flying Arma's and Zealots. How many of them check their radar strength ? Obviously, a jammed ship isn't going to be a threat... There's always a weak point: exploit it.
It's all about choices, originality, skills, tactics and setup.
It would be very sad to see this game increasingly molded according to the limitations of the least creative players.
|
Rex Martell
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 07:43:00 -
[22]
1600mm Plates need to have their requirements slashed to almost nothing so they can be fitted on nOOb ships.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
CB Cyrix
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 08:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hippey
Oh .....There's no penalty for stacking plates and hardeners like there is for gyros/heat sinks.
WTF am i the only one that see's him saying we get no penalty for hardners?!!!!
Try fitting 3, the last one is no way 50%.
Armour and shield tech are different things that you need to MASTER, armour is average tank which is easyer to setup and master.
ALTHOUGH shield tanking is higher amounts of tank, but for a shorter time.
SHIELDS ARE STRONGER, but dont last as long.
So in order to shield tank you need to cycle the booster, so it behaves like a armour tank.
|
Chee
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 08:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers
Just because someone is diffucult to fight does not mean a nerf is needed. They may have been just perfectly suited to counter you, your set up could be wanting, or any other number of reasons, but asking CCP to step in and make your life easier is not the answer.
a 1600 on cruiser with frig guns most certainly IS in need of a change (not nerf, note that), since normal cruiser setups with cruiser guns get beaten by their 1600-friggun-cruiser cousins. That makes a 1600 plate cruiser a superb anti-frig fighter as well as a very good against other cruisers (thorax anyone?). So a change is needed yes.
(nerf is just a negative view of a change, people should be more positive and not whine as much, but this is a general remark and in no way aimed at you personnaly)
|
Elrathias
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 08:21:00 -
[25]
imo, adding mass to plates would be the best option.
the next best option is to nerf back the dps of all the guns in the game, and we dont want that, now do we?
--------------------------
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 08:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Elrathias
imo, adding mass to plates would be the best option.
the next best option is to nerf back the dps of all the guns in the game, and we dont want that, now do we?
There are few others imo. Like increasing the gasp between dps of small - med - large guns
One of the many problems of oversized plates is that the firepower you loose by using small guns on cruiser is negligible small to the boost of your survivability/tank.
But once you would increase the gasp -> more dps for med guns and large guns, you would need to look again on the hitpoints of the ships.
So this would require a que of changes to have a new ballance. But i would like to see.
Light Neutronblaster = 0,25 dps
Heavy Neutronblaster = 0,333 dps
Heavy Ionblaster ....= 0,313 dps
Heavy Electronblaster = 0,292 dps
So the med Neutronblaster hits only 25% harder than the light Neutronblaster. An we all know you cant fit Neutrons on Thorax. More likely are electrons or max Ions.
Ion dps 20% > light Neutrons
Electron dps 15% > light Neutrons
Now i dont need to give you the math how much less a pain it is to fit 5 light Neutrons than 5 med Blasters, do i?
Yeah yeah you get shipbonus. But max of 25%. And even then the difference isnt big enough to not sacrifice 50% firepower, for 300% more Armor.
Because a 1600mm will tripple the armor of a Thorax. But there are different ways to solve problems. But my idear of fixing aint nerfing, but giving ppl hard choice to make.
Survivability vs Firepower.
_________________________
Dead or Alive
 |
Max Flame
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 09:48:00 -
[27]
The 1600 plates are there so that the ships have a longer lasting ability over the gate camps. Ie the dont get killed in 1 second, but rather in 2-3 but with a higher chance of escape ^^
I like to kill people
|
fire 59
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 11:07:00 -
[28]
Seems to me some people are moaning about plates being nerfed because they cant pop a cruiser in 1 volley or whatever, every setup has its weakness, learn from it and stop trying to nerf everything, forums are filled with nerf this, nerf that. Not flaming, just love the game and enjoy a good long fight 
|
Grimwalius d'Antan
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 11:14:00 -
[29]
After all the whining about cruisers not being survivable enough, CCP gives us better plates. Now Cruisers have become too survivable? Absolutely not, they are in line where they should be. Now they just need grid to fit guns as well.
|
Minerdog
|
Posted - 2005.09.22 11:45:00 -
[30]
It's people like you that are screwing up the game for everyone else. Just because you can't beat a few people that are armor tanked doesnt mean you come running to the forums complaining.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |