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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.24 23:18:00 -
[1]
Right lads, I looking for some clarification on the Cerberus. Is it a bad ship overall or is it just a bad HAC when compared to the others?
On paper it looks good enough with Time,Skills and Money. With 5 Launcher slots, The Rate of Fire bonus,Good missile skills and T2 launchers with the Heavy Missile Spec up to 4 it must spew Heavy missiles. And at a good range. Also it should be able to fit a reasonable tank from what I can see so overall it appears to me to be a good ship.
HOWEVER it does seem to pale in comparison to the other HACs so please can someone clarify this for me and any other misconceptions i may have shown here in this thread.
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.09.24 23:23:00 -
[2]
I would say it is designed to fit the role of long range sniper/missile bombardment, Problem is that you cannot tackle from that far, requiring help up close .. and if you have to have friends up close to do it anyway the point of sniping goes out the window somewhat.
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Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.24 23:35:00 -
[3]
assault frigates do more dmg then a cerberus does.
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.24 23:55:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Malken
assault frigates do more dmg then a cerberus does.
Im sceptical about that but I cant refute it. Could ya post some numbers?
Its just I cant see a Sniper-Cerb being out damaged by a Frigate. Im might be wrong but I just cant see it.
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:08:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bagdh Dearg
Im sceptical about that but I cant refute it. Could ya post some numbers? Its just I cant see a Sniper-Cerb being out damaged by a Frigate. Im might be wrong but I just cant see it.
* Gank-cerberus: 250 dps at 100km.
* Gank-taranis: 200 dps at 1km. Blaster-enyo has one more gun but a lower damage bonus.
With good damage skills & t2 stuffs. Not precise numbers, but here's the idea.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Originally by: theRaptor
Its even funnier when half the forum is crying for damage mod nerfs and the other half for plate nerfs. 
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
* Gank-cerberus: 250 dps at 100km.
* Gank-taranis: 200 dps at 1km. Blaster-enyo has one more gun but a lower damage bonus.
With good damage skills & t2 stuffs. Not precise numbers, but here's the idea.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Ahh I see it now. But I suppose damage isnt everything considering a Cerberus can tank better and has a far longer range and dmg selection.
Should have rephrased it as being "Though it might do more DPS I cant see an AF beating a Cerberus"
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:15:00 -
[7]
in answer to the OP's question.
the cerburus isnt that bad a ship.
however, its crap compared to other hacs.
well, not crap, but doesnt match the others as far as being usefull.
as a ship i love it, same with eagle, but when you stand them next to zealots, vagabonds etc..., i cant help thinking why did i train Cal cruiser 5 and not the others
Quoted From MouseOnMars
Especially the Machariel, which can cast level 1 sh*t your pants upon appearing on the battlefield |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:17:00 -
[8]
So I've heard it anyway, the tech II BCS should bring ~300 dps on a cerberus within reasonably doable bounds.
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Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bagdh Dearg
Ahh I see it now. But I suppose damage isnt everything considering a Cerberus can tank better and has a far longer range and dmg selection.
Should have rephrased it as being "Though it might do more DPS I cant see an AF beating a Cerberus"
Actually, the cerberus has one of the worst tanks among the HACs. Its capacitor is massively sub-par, no more than the tech 1 caracal's, and its tank, like all shield tanks, can run through that capacitor in no time flat.
As for assault frigates beating a cerberus, this is sadly quite possible: heavy missiles do so little damage vs. assault frigs (thanks to the sig radius) that a cerberus' entire damage output can easily be tanked. The 5%/level bonus to kinetic missile damage is only truly useful against minmatar AF and HACs - the other races' ships can easily tank the entire damage output of a cerberus for quite a while, and dish out a higher DPS in return.
-Wrayeth
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Bagdh Dearg
Ahh I see it now. But I suppose damage isnt everything considering a Cerberus can tank better and has a far longer range and dmg selection.
Should have rephrased it as being "Though it might do more DPS I cant see an AF beating a Cerberus"
Actually, the cerberus has one of the worst tanks among the HACs. Its capacitor is massively sub-par, no more than the tech 1 caracal's, and its tank, like all shield tanks, can run through that capacitor in no time flat.
As for assault frigates beating a cerberus, this is sadly quite possible: heavy missiles do so little damage vs. assault frigs (thanks to the sig radius) that a cerberus' entire damage output can easily be tanked. The 5%/level bonus to kinetic missile damage is only truly useful against minmatar AF and HACs - the other races' ships can easily tank the entire damage output of a cerberus for quite a while, and dish out a higher DPS in return.
I believe I can sum up my feelings on this rather quickly and curtly:
Oh Bollix.
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Actually, the cerberus has one of the worst tanks among the HACs. Its capacitor is massively sub-par, no more than the tech 1 caracal's, and its tank, like all shield tanks, can run through that capacitor in no time flat.
As for assault frigates beating a cerberus, this is sadly quite possible: heavy missiles do so little damage vs. assault frigs (thanks to the sig radius) that a cerberus' entire damage output can easily be tanked. The 5%/level bonus to kinetic missile damage is only truly useful against minmatar AF and HACs - the other races' ships can easily tank the entire damage output of a cerberus for quite a while, and dish out a higher DPS in return.
With a good setup, provided that there is no drone or nos involved, you can tank a heavy missile ferox in a punisher. 6 AF out of 8 have a bonus to kinetic resists, so here goes your bonus. Yay for the cerberus.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Originally by: theRaptor
Its even funnier when half the forum is crying for damage mod nerfs and the other half for plate nerfs.
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:34:00 -
[12]
So basically the Cerberus is both a bad HAC and bad Ship. Well this certainly makes me less then pleased.
Damn I assumed that it had to be atleast some way competant, seeing as the other T2 ships in general do something well.And on paper they really should, High Rate of fire and damage but its that damn Sig Radius problum which kills it.
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:38:00 -
[13]
Well, the Cerberus can actually be rather effective in *some* situations, such as vs. tech 1 cruisers or ratting battleships.
A corpmate of mine has been very effective in killing NPCing/mining battleships with his Cerberus, though his effectiveness is rapidly starting to disappear now that the people he's shooting at are fitting explosive hardeners.
-Wrayeth
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Layrex
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Posted - 2005.09.25 01:03:00 -
[14]
It's not very good for a hac. Especially up close - just lost mine to a platerax. It is pretty nice in a group though.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.09.25 01:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Layrex
It's not very good for a hac. Especially up close - just lost mine to a platerax. It is pretty nice in a group though.
I take back what I said about it being good against tech 1 cruisers. :P
Damn, I'm glad I went for tech 2 1400's instead of caldari HACs.
-Wrayeth
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Utgardsloki
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Posted - 2005.09.25 01:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Utgardsloki on 25/09/2005 01:19:45
Originally by: Layrex
It's not very good for a hac. Especially up close - just lost mine to a platerax. It is pretty nice in a group though.
Yep, as the pilot of the plated Thorax in question, I can testify that the Cerberus is pretty lacking, if it had been almost any other HAC the outcome of our fight would have been very different.
An 80 million isk ship killed by an 8 million isk ship in a one-on-one encounter? Surely CCP can see something is not quite right there.
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Stormfront
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Posted - 2005.09.25 01:36:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Stormfront on 25/09/2005 01:40:07
Actually a plate rax wipes the floor with many other hacs.
Vagabonds, Zealots even.... So thats not really an argument.
Which is why the Thorax is being nerfed...
I would also like CCP to give the Sacrilege some more useful bonuses. Maybe 10% more armor HP :D and remove the useless missile ROF bonus...
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Layrex
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Posted - 2005.09.25 01:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stormfront
Edited by: Stormfront on 25/09/2005 01:40:07
Actually a plate rax wipes the floor with many other hacs.
Vagabonds, Zealots even.... So thats not really an argument.
Which is why the Thorax is being nerfed...
I would also like CCP to give the Sacrilege some more useful bonuses. Maybe 10% more armor HP :D and remove the useless missile ROF bonus...
Heh that makes me feel better. 
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.09.25 02:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Weirda on 25/09/2005 02:09:48
Edited by: Weirda on 25/09/2005 02:08:16
Originally by: Stormfront
Edited by: Stormfront on 25/09/2005 01:40:07
Actually a plate rax wipes the floor with many other hacs....
Vagabonds...
wtf?? bull****! 
weirda will take a platerax in standard setup with a vagabond, rupture, or even stabber any day of the week (twice on sunday)... pfft....
--
Thread Killer
(attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.25 02:19:00 -
[20]
"An 80 million isk ship killed by an 8 million isk ship in a one-on-one encounter? Surely CCP can see something is not quite right there. "
Well, CCP is kind of in the process on nerfing both Thorax *and* armour plates at the moment, so it'd seem that yes, they consider some things not being quite right -.^
(how good is the way of "fixing" things that they picked, is another story ..;;
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.25 02:19:00 -
[21]
platerax is a joke easily dispatched by a cerberus.. i dont see how people lose their HAC to that crap, just 2 volleys from my cerb takes a platerax to 80% armor and it doesnt get much better from there..
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.25 02:49:00 -
[22]
the caracal is actually a better ship then the cerberus.
it cost only a few mill so you dont loose as much as when you loose a equally worthless piece of ship as the cerberus is.
because you will loose it just as easily.
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2005.09.25 02:51:00 -
[23]
It's a pretty good ship, it doesn't tank really well and it doesn't do lots of damage but its very much in the middle of everything. It's a fairly flexible ship and with a good pilot and a good fitting its really very good.
The eagle on the other hand is crap.
Currently Training: Suicidal Tendencies [Rank 8] 1,947,276/2,048,000 SP |
Best
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Posted - 2005.09.25 05:26:00 -
[24]
im reading alot of bs in here... a cerberus is quite deadly with nos at 5 k with a deimos, and same with a megathron (i have taken both)... the dps is about 237 with kinetic with setup and skills... and you have complete range flexiblity that other hacs and have ecm immunity... its a good choice half these peeps in here that talk about it have either flown against a new cerb pilot or dont know what they speak of
(willing to do pvp with any unbeliever...mail me)
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.25 05:44:00 -
[25]
"im reading alot of bs in here... a cerberus is quite deadly with nos at 5 k with a deimos, and same with a megathron (i have taken both)"
Resistances to hybrid damage on Cerberus are in the 70-80% range. And people prefer the explosive/thermal damage drones...
If she wasn't able to survive even with that kind of handicap, it'd really redefine the meaning of "pathetic", wouldn't it -.o
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.09.25 05:48:00 -
[26]
Anyone had experiences with just fitting an "Assault Launcher II" on it and can comment on the DPS? I don't know if everyone is using "Heavy Missiles" but like from where I'm standing and reading. Doesn't Standard Missile do more damage to low sig ships like HAC's than what missile would do?
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.25 12:13:00 -
[27]
So basically, With skills, Money and certain situations the Cerberus is both a good ship and good HAC however it seems without a massive level of concentration of skill points and Isk the ship is a waste of 80mill.
Well Ive always enjoyed a challenge,Thanks for the replies lads.
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2005.09.25 12:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Utgardsloki
Edited by: Utgardsloki on 25/09/2005 01:19:45
Originally by: Layrex
It's not very good for a hac. Especially up close - just lost mine to a platerax. It is pretty nice in a group though.
Yep, as the pilot of the plated Thorax in question, I can testify that the Cerberus is pretty lacking, if it had been almost any other HAC the outcome of our fight would have been very different.
An 80 million isk ship killed by an 8 million isk ship in a one-on-one encounter? Surely CCP can see something is not quite right there.
I think you've missed the point. I insured my Ishtar the other day and it cost me 5mill with a payout of 17mill. As far as I can remember, insurance payouts cover the cost of rebuilding the ship.
The fact that I like many others have paid 80 mill is just down to market forces plain and simple.
The cost is not an indication of its power or effectiveness in 1 on 1 combat. Use it in its correct role and all HAS shine through. Put them in unfamiliar territory and they become like a fish out of water.
ASFAIK I see nothing wrong with the Cerberus and I will get one for group missions in due course.
Nuff said
Justice
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.25 13:16:00 -
[29]
with the BPO and lottery as it is "aka. still just a few BPO's released" even though server population has increased by a factor of 5 in active population on the servers the apparent shortage of available ships on market rests completely within CCP's sphere of blame and not the people building the ships 24/7.
and even though they build them 24/7 there is still nowhere near enough ships to supply the market.
coupled with the complete and utter stupidity of making copying the tech2 ship BPO's taking longer then actually building a ship it was made this way by CCP so once again the blame rests with CCP.
guess what?, CCP dont give a **** and wont fix it.
what would be needed is the copying time be max 70% of the building time.
also the available BPO' should be increased with a factor of 5 atleast.
maybe then there would be some kind of availability and the builders/sellers would have to position their goods in the post highway market system for maximum sales and returns.
the HAC build and availability is a joke atm.
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.25 14:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Malken
with the BPO and lottery as it is "aka. still just a few BPO's released" even though server population has increased by a factor of 5 in active population on the servers the apparent shortage of available ships on market rests completely within CCP's sphere of blame and not the people building the ships 24/7.
and even though they build them 24/7 there is still nowhere near enough ships to supply the market.
coupled with the complete and utter stupidity of making copying the tech2 ship BPO's taking longer then actually building a ship it was made this way by CCP so once again the blame rests with CCP.
guess what?, CCP dont give a **** and wont fix it.
what would be needed is the copying time be max 70% of the building time.
also the available BPO' should be increased with a factor of 5 atleast.
maybe then there would be some kind of availability and the builders/sellers would have to position their goods in the post highway market system for maximum sales and returns.
the HAC build and availability is a joke atm.
Little off topic but ok,You have a point 
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.09.25 16:17:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Anyone had experiences with just fitting an "Assault Launcher II" on it and can comment on the DPS? I don't know if everyone is using "Heavy Missiles" but like from where I'm standing and reading. Doesn't Standard Missile do more damage to low sig ships like HAC's than what missile would do?
I have tried it with 5 Assault Launcher IIs, and its a totally mixxed review. On the one hand, yes, it really does do full damage to frigates, and the rate of fire is substancial. You will blast them, pretty easily. But anything bigger or with a tank will be able to absorb that damage, because it just doesn't compare to heavy missiles.
On the other hand, it frees up literally tons of powergrid and CPU. I made a Cerberscorp out of mine by putting in Tech 2 Shield Extenders, giving me about 6500 shields, with the HAC resists, so it was one tough nugget. I tanked an entire level of a Revenge level 4 mission with this thing, while my friend in his RAVEN blasted the big stuff.
Another plus side is that to really get the most of your heavies in a cerberus, you need a sensor booster. With lights, you can free up that spot, and any spots you were using (or wasting, depending on how you think of them) target painters. So you've got a strong ship with lights, but don't expect to punch out anything big.
So its a mixxed bag if you want to go with light missiles.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.09.25 16:28:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Malken
guess what?, CCP dont give a **** and wont fix it.
you are a moron.
please just trash you stuff on the way out - it prolly not worth anything...
--
Thread Killer
(attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Utgardsloki
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Posted - 2005.09.25 17:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Weirda
Originally by: Stormfront
Actually a plate rax wipes the floor with many other hacs....
Vagabonds...
wtf?? bull****!
weirda will take a platerax in standard setup with a vagabond, rupture, or even stabber any day of the week (twice on sunday)... pfft....
Though I'm sure Weirda wouldn't have too much of a problem facing a plated Thorax in her Vagabond - Ruptures and Stabbers are a different matter.
I've had a corp mate in his Rupture fitted with Tech 2 720mm Arty pound me from around 20-25km with his best ammo, while I sat there at 0 m/s and tanked it for quite a while. If it had been in live combat I'd have been under his guns and tearing through structure in little over 20 seconds.
But yeah, if more pilots just focused on killing the Rax's drones as soon as they were deployed, there might not have been so many calls to have her nerfed.
I'll miss you old girl. *sniff*
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Layrex
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Posted - 2005.09.25 17:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Utgardsloki
Originally by: Weirda
Originally by: Stormfront
Actually a plate rax wipes the floor with many other hacs....
Vagabonds...
wtf?? bull****!
weirda will take a platerax in standard setup with a vagabond, rupture, or even stabber any day of the week (twice on sunday)... pfft....
Though I'm sure Weirda wouldn't have too much of a problem facing a plated Thorax in her Vagabond - Ruptures and Stabbers are a different matter.
I've had a corp mate in his Rupture fitted with Tech 2 720mm Arty pound me from around 20-25km with his best ammo, while I sat there at 0 m/s and tanked it for quite a while. If it had been in live combat I'd have been under his guns and tearing through structure in little over 20 seconds.
But yeah, if more pilots just focused on killing the Rax's drones as soon as they were deployed, there might not have been so many calls to have her nerfed.
I'll miss you old girl. *sniff*
I concentrated on your drones though and it didn't save me. 
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.25 18:19:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Weirda
Originally by: Malken
guess what?, CCP dont give a **** and wont fix it.
you are a moron.
please just trash you stuff on the way out - it prolly not worth anything...
if you didnt focus on just line of the post just to spout crap at me just for the sake of doing it and instead commented on the post then someone might have payed attention to your craving for attention.
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2005.09.25 18:37:00 -
[36]
bad ship considering there is no low slot warp disruptors, no low slot webbifiers, no low slot ecm whatsoever tbh. and it uses ATLEAST 3 slots for it tanks. so that gimps the ship.
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Lay's Biatch
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Posted - 2005.09.25 18:42:00 -
[37]
Exactly. It isn't fair on Caldari players that we cant fit scramblers or webbers in the lows. Everyone else can have a decent tank at the same time.
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JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.09.25 18:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Well, the Cerberus can actually be rather effective in *some* situations, such as vs. tech 1 cruisers or ratting battleships.
a corpmate of mine just yesterday nailed cerberus in his thorax 1v1
____
When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
Nick Marcus
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Posted - 2005.09.25 19:11:00 -
[39]
That argument doesn't make sense.
While we can't use ecm if we want to tank,we can easely use warp stabs,damage mods,hull mods, etc...
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.25 19:16:00 -
[40]
5x heavy missile launcher II
1x small diminishing nosferatu (drop it if you got fitting issues)
1x balmer series tracking disruptor (train the adv skill to 4)
1x named lrg shield booster (or small gist a-type)
1x photon scattering
1x 10mn AB II
1x warp disruptor (30km one is a nice investment)
4x bcu (lower the cpu the better, named are nice to have)
this setup works, a zealot will never ever beat you with this setup.
you need a lot of training to fit it all, unless you go the small gist route, which saves you a lot of fitting, but of course this is a tech2 ship so i am assuming newbs arent flying it, so if you got the training invested that setup can be effective.
the tracking disruptor gimps your enemy JUST enough to beat it, if you got a tackler, slap two on. your tanking should be enough to take down most missile ships, but watch out for ravens of course >:|
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.09.25 19:30:00 -
[41]
my mate gave me his cerb whilst he's on a break from the game.
I dropped it back in his hangar
not impressed at all
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.25 19:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
this setup works, a zealot will never ever beat you with this setup.
and the zealot could have a multispec and you cannot use your tracking disruptors on him so what happens then?
and the zealot got way more lowslots to use for tanking or dmg mods so you will loose since you will not be able to kill the tanking zealot at all in your cerberus.
and he will have a tank and the guns do much more dmg then your missiles do.
guess what the outcome will be?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.25 19:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: Jim Raynor
this setup works, a zealot will never ever beat you with this setup.
and the zealot could have a multispec and you cannot use your tracking disruptors on him so what happens then?
and the zealot got way more lowslots to use for tanking or dmg mods so you will loose since you will not be able to kill the tanking zealot at all in your cerberus.
and he will have a tank and the guns do much more dmg then your missiles do.
guess what the outcome will be?
im not going to play hypothetical EVE with you very rarely do zealots fly around with multispectral jammers and the cerberus' sensor strength is high enough so that a multi spec will NOT land 100% of the time, if you are jammed, you do have FOF to rely on, if its 1v1, that is
the tracking disruptor really gimps his lasers badly, lasers have almost no falloff what so ever, trust me, they work on lasers, very very well
a zealot can not out tank my cerberus nor can i out tank his damage, but with the tracking disruptor, he can't touch me, and to be honest a tanked zealot is generally 1 thermal hardener and a medium rep.. not hard to break at all
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.09.25 21:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
a zealot can not out tank my cerberus
lolz
Kill mails |
Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.25 21:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Jim Raynor
a zealot can not out tank my cerberus
lolz
exactly my thought also :P
i got medium pulse and beam spec to 5 and HAC skill to 5
and no i dont wanna play hypothetical eve with jim as its extremely rare that a cerberus got his mids filled with tracking disruptors where 99.9% use hardeners to be able to survive any other ship shooting at it.
nuff hypothetical stuff now jim.
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Moridin
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Posted - 2005.09.26 00:21:00 -
[46]
I saw once a guy take on and win in a cerberus vs a True Sanhsa Tyrant and 2 Beast lord + escort.
id say at least there with proper setup it rock¦s
____ (\_/)
(> <) (X.x) This is Headless Bunny. Copy Headless Bunny into your signature to help prevent his attempt at world domination.
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Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.09.26 01:30:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Moridin
I saw once a guy take on and win in a cerberus vs a True Sanhsa Tyrant and 2 Beast lord + escort.
id say at least there with proper setup it rock¦s
I caught a fish this big!!!
/sarcasm off
To the original poster... I would advise you to hold off on training specifically for a Cerberus until it gets some love. While it is on even footing with t1 cruisers it is easily the single worst HAC in the game by a large margin. With some adjustments made to it's bonuses... and a bit of tweaking to a few of it's stats (not to mention a rather large increase to the DPS of heavy launchers) it will be a ship worth flying.
If you are planning on using light missiles or kitting it out to kill frigates.... just use a destroyer. They are far more effective at killing frigates... and insurance actually covers their cost. To kit a Cerberus out to even approach the DPS of other HACs you need a pretty hefty budget... and the wallet to deal with some losses.
Not to mention a lot of skill points...
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 02:20:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 26/09/2005 02:20:24
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Jim Raynor
a zealot can not out tank my cerberus
lolz
exactly my thought also :P
i got medium pulse and beam spec to 5 and HAC skill to 5
and no i dont wanna play hypothetical eve with jim as its extremely rare that a cerberus got his mids filled with tracking disruptors where 99.9% use hardeners to be able to survive any other ship shooting at it.
nuff hypothetical stuff now jim.
laugh all you want, ive taken down dual rep sacrileges with my cerberus, unless theyre using corpum a-type medium reps, they will still go down
a zealot can not out tank me, not that anyone TANKS zealots EVER
my setup might as well be the de facto setup because out of all the setups ive used its quite frankly the only one that has worked well for me
in fact if you want a 1v1 we can arrange it, bring your multispectral jammer too k?
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2005.09.26 02:38:00 -
[49]
To all the cerberus and eagle whiners out there cheers you guys are exactly right. The thing sucks *******s even with hac 5 and highly speciallised missile skills. the eagle isn't much better cept for that it can tank very nicely however that doesn't mean a thing when it does less dmg than a AF... please ccp see the many many many posts about how ****ty these things are and fix them...
change cerb flight time bonus to another dmg bonus and give the eagle a 5th turret hard point... also give them both more cap please k thx.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.09.26 03:31:00 -
[50]
Make up your mind Jim.
One day you say the ship sucks balls and even come up with figures proving it does, the next day you come up with some satisfactory results with a ship worth 1 billion in fitting, and the day after the Cerberus is a Zealot bbq machine
Glad for you you managed to convince yourself that thing isn't utter crap, but 2 + 2 don't do 5 in my book.
Kill mails |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 03:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sorja
Make up your mind Jim.
One day you say the ship sucks balls and even come up with figures proving it does, the next day you come up with some satisfactory results with a ship worth 1 billion in fitting, and the day after the Cerberus is a Zealot bbq machine
Glad for you you managed to convince yourself that thing isn't utter crap, but 2 + 2 don't do 5 in my book.
the cerberus is not a top HAC
but my cerb setup is effective
an ibis with a tracking disruptor has a shot against a zealot ok, but still i like my overall cerberus setup, cerb is NOT the worst HAC, the eagle is
i think it could use a boost but i still have fun flying it.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2005.09.26 04:13:00 -
[52]
plz whine more abut the eagel so i can keep buying it cheep, eagel is sexy as a support ship, silly tacklers that try and get close gos KAPOW. cerb fills the same rolle very nice
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 04:27:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
plz whine more abut the eagel so i can keep buying it cheep, eagel is sexy as a support ship, silly tacklers that try and get close gos KAPOW. cerb fills the same rolle very nice
i dont see how eagles hit much of anything with that horrible railgun tracking, the dps of an eagle is actually quite a bit lower than a cerberus, i dunno, i will probably get an eagle sooner or later but i dont feel like training up medium railgun spec at the moment, ive tested against friends in their eagles and my cerberus never had any issues at taking them down, and i used kinetic missiles in almost every test, which is one of the eagles best resists
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.09.26 06:24:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Jim Raynor
a zealot can not out tank my cerberus
lolz
exactly my thought also :P
i got medium pulse and beam spec to 5 and HAC skill to 5
and no i dont wanna play hypothetical eve with jim as its extremely rare that a cerberus got his mids filled with tracking disruptors where 99.9% use hardeners to be able to survive any other ship shooting at it.
nuff hypothetical stuff now jim.
...its not hypothetical cause thats HIS fitting.
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.09.26 06:31:00 -
[55]
If you all are interested in seeing most of the effective findings of what the Cerberus can do, or if you wish to contribute your own insights, I recommend you look here.
If you want to spank each other with smack, thats cool. Take it to the corp discussions forum or whatever, where that crap belongs though. Cerberus is a HAC. It does some stuff better than others. You could just as easily ***** and moan about the apoclypse not being fast or agile.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 06:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Jim Raynor
a zealot can not out tank my cerberus
lolz
exactly my thought also :P
i got medium pulse and beam spec to 5 and HAC skill to 5
and no i dont wanna play hypothetical eve with jim as its extremely rare that a cerberus got his mids filled with tracking disruptors where 99.9% use hardeners to be able to survive any other ship shooting at it.
nuff hypothetical stuff now jim.
...its not hypothetical cause thats HIS fitting.
haha ya, really
oh noes i will put gravimetric jammers on my zealot and pwn u up!!!
ya ok you do that, Malken, im sure you put jammers on your zealot just incase some ebil tracking disruptor cerberus comes, right?
im just trying to give people a decent setup for a ship most people have given up on using, the setup can work well for you in most circumstances, the cerb is not an uber HAC, its not the best HAC, but if you want to fly one, and i enjoy flying mine, as underpowered as it seems to be, you might as well fit it right.
there is like, no one setup in eve that will give you massive dps, a super tank, resistance to jamming, ect, you can play rock paper scissors all day if you want with setups, but the cerb setup i list here is one i use all the time and one that is an all round solid setup for small gang pvping, mmmm k?
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.09.26 06:54:00 -
[57]
Not much to say, Jim is right. Lol at for Sorja for arguing with the original Caldari missile *****.
TD's own turrets and if you don't know how to beat a turret dependant ship like the Zealot in a 5 midslot Cerb you don't deserve to play eve, period.
Didn't you say you were gonna quit Sorja? Pls do.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.09.26 07:52:00 -
[58]
For PvE, Cerberus is a good ship. For PvP I think not but I can only assume for the PvP part.
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The narrow minded and selfish people posting on EO forums made me bitter |
GreyMana
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Posted - 2005.09.26 08:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Khatred
For PvE, Cerberus is a good ship. For PvP I think not but I can only assume for the PvP part.
That's exactly what I saw/heard about it. I saw some of them on Lv. 4 missions killing frigs + cruisers very well (and over a long range), while the big brother (raven) kills the BSs. Before the missile-nerf people complained about the raven as the ultimate mission ship, same will apply to the cerberus on a ship boost.
For PvP it might suffer the same limitations like the raven, can't say much about it.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.09.26 09:43:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Denrace on 26/09/2005 09:44:16
HIGH: 5 Heavy Missile Launchers
MED: 2x Small Gistii Boosters, 1x Large Extender, 2x EM Hardeners
LOWS: 2x PDU II, 2x BCU
Youre not going to pin anything down in this, but then that isnt really the point with 30km+ ranges - so dont ever say "lolz u need a scram".
With this setup i can beat pretty much any HAC except an Ishtar, but i can EASILY tank all his 15 drone dmg and i just engage at above 25km (if he gets close, warp off).
This setup can tank a huge amount of damage - so for all you who say "Cerberus has a crap tank", youre completely wrong, and fools for thinking so.
Next on the agenda is the Damage Output: i can quite nicely **** up a Zealot with no issues, and i can tank his dmg long enough to eat through his armour (80% thermal and 70% EM resistance help here). I can spank frigates/interceptors, even with heavies and yes, all tech I cruisers die shamelessly to my Cerberus.
Jim Raynor is quite right, the Cerberus is much better than all you flamers think it is, you just cant fly one properly because you either:
a) are a noob
b) use it in the wrong situations, then complain
c) are incapable of fitting one right
d) have never flown one and flame it anyway
The two Gistii Boosters cost 100mill to buy (50m each). Dont EVER complain about this! can you buy the equivalent armour reps? no, because they cost over 200 mill EACH. Be grateful you are able to fit these beauties on a Cerby and if you cannot afford 2x Gistii's then you arent ready to be a HAC pilot - HACs are for advanced players. Get over it.
Now, please leave the Cerberus alone, and post contructively only. Some nice points are being raised here, and i can honestly say that the cerb could use some better bonuses (another dmg bonus would be nice), but as it is right now, id rather fly my cerby into battle than my zealot - any day of the week
____________________________________________
Custom Sigs Made. Convo in-game for details
http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/ |
IamBen
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Posted - 2005.09.26 10:53:00 -
[61]
much better off training cruiser 5 of a different race and just using caldari cruiser 4 with a caracal. Caracal with assault launchers with standard missles 4/5 is simply a great cheap fun ship to fly around in for anti frig duties.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.09.26 11:27:00 -
[62]
no ship should have to use officer stuff to be, or to be close, in line with other ships.
jim u said often enough that u use faction bacus - well i wont buy such stuff, and the dps without faction stuff is fairly low.
tanking without factions tuff wont get u far either,
and every other hac can do better with faction stuff then you in ur cerb.
bbs are better for ew, too, and witht heir 3 launcherslots they do the half dmg a cerb does at the same time too.
fly ravens instead of cerbs i say.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.09.26 12:14:00 -
[63]
What do the EVE Developers team think of the Cerberus?
____________________________________________
Custom Sigs Made. Convo in-game for details
http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/ |
Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:28:00 -
[64]
Looks like its the same as all other ships as far as usefulness. If you are in the wrong situation for your setup, you run or die. If you are in the right situation, you pwn.
It has a somewhat strange (this is my opinion) slot layout, so it lends itself to unorthodox strategies. But only one of those at a time.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:03:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
no ship should have to use officer stuff to be, or to be close, in line with other ships.
My setup doesn't include officer gear though, balmer series tracking disruptors, heavy missile launcher IIs are not exactly premium equipment.
Quote:
jim u said often enough that u use faction bacus - well i wont buy such stuff, and the dps without faction stuff is fairly low.
I generally use domination and dread guristas.. they're bandaid though because tech2 isn't out, I would use tech2 if they were released, they're not much worse than dreads and a lil better than dominations. I doubt the DPS difference would be that huge.
Quote:
tanking without factions tuff wont get u far either,
and every other hac can do better with faction stuff then you in ur cerb.
Gist 4tw yes, but a large c5-L isnt horrid either ^_^
Quote:
bbs are better for ew, too, and witht heir 3 launcherslots they do the half dmg a cerb does at the same time too.
Blackbirds are for jamming, Cerberus is a weak heavy assault that needs a lil boost with electronic warfare to get it over the hump of mediocrity, it has 5 mids, so it's doable.
Quote:
fly ravens instead of cerbs i say.
i'm not going to say that is a bad idea, nor could i blame anyone for choosing a raven over a cerb, a cerb does not have much advantage over a raven save for it can get around faster
if heavys were less gimped against frigates and stuff, id say cerb would be a bit better, right now heavys are like basically cruise missiles when it comes to dishing out damage against smaller targets, they do about the same damage to cruisers and frigates
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.09.26 17:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Meridius
Not much to say, Jim is right. Lol at for Sorja for arguing with the original Caldari missile *****.
TD's own turrets and if you don't know how to beat a turret dependant ship like the Zealot in a 5 midslot Cerb you don't deserve to play eve, period.
Didn't you say you were gonna quit Sorja? Pls do.
Heh, funny thing I burned today a DVD with your Vanguard chapter one on it Meridius and thought about sending you a well deserved congratulation for that awesome movie.
Being the good sport I am and despite your immature comment, receive hereby my thanks for your work, and please keep it coming (the vids, not the smack, while I couldn't care less anyways).
Back on topic, I have no problem engaging a Zealot at long range in my Cerberus, even if some less expensive ships would do the job better, and I've been fitting tracking disruptors on most of my ships because they are the best defense a Caldari ship can fit (especially since there's little to fear from missiles).
At close/medium range, if the Zealot doesn't crush a Cerberus in no time, the Zealot pilot should get back to tech I cruisers asap, tracking disruptor or not.
And before saying the Eagle is dead meat to an Eagle, train gunnery first, kthxbye
Kill mails |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 17:39:00 -
[67]
Quote:
At close/medium range, if the Zealot doesn't crush a Cerberus in no time, the Zealot pilot should get back to tech I cruisers asap, tracking disruptor or not.
with two of the worst named TDs, and without the turret destablization skill trained, i was able to orbit a zealot at 5km while it couldnt touch me with pulse, so somehow i think you're wrong about that zealot bbqing you at medium range, short maybe, if he switched to radio.. but that would make him almost tankable, i think.
Quote:
And before saying the Eagle is dead meat to an Eagle, train gunnery first, kthxbye
huh? if you mean eagle vs cerb, the cerb will win everytime
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.09.27 06:44:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
with two of the worst named TDs, and without the turret destablization skill trained, i was able to orbit a zealot at 5km while it couldnt touch me with pulse, so somehow i think you're wrong about that zealot bbqing you at medium range, short maybe, if he switched to radio.. but that would make him almost tankable, i think.
I had multiple fights against Zealots and the disruptor didn't help me (tech II disruptor and specialized skill) but, to be honest, I can't remember if I had 1 or 2 disruptors fitted. What I remember clearly is that I couldn't keep a suitable range: the zealot is much faster than the Cerberus, for a much lower mass.
I remember a fight against a Munnin where I had 2 disruptors fitted and was in trouble very fast, that thing hits way too hard, and in the shield tankers weakspots.
At longer ranges, it's totally different of course, and the Cerberus is then a very nice ship.
That's fine and dandy, but the very reason for which I don't like the Cerberus: long range is too uncommon and there is no close range heavy missile.
Quote:
if you mean eagle vs cerb, the cerb will win everytime
I should have mentioned I fit 2 medium NOS II to my Beagle, that fuel the Large Booster II nicely. Good Cerberus pilots are rare, you probably have more experience than me for Eagle versus Cerberus.
What I know is that my Eagle get much better results against small ships, and can fit blasters instead of rails, which gives it a versatility the Cerberus lacks.
Kill mails |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.27 07:12:00 -
[69]
Quote:
I had multiple fights against Zealots and the disruptor didn't help me (tech II disruptor and specialized skill) but, to be honest, I can't remember if I had 1 or 2 disruptors fitted. What I remember clearly is that I couldn't keep a suitable range: the zealot is much faster than the Cerberus, for a much lower mass.
I'm confused because I've gimped Zealots really hard even before I had balmers/tech2 and the advanced skill, I don't see why you are having problems with this. One will force him to use a ranged crystal, two will make him gimped beyond repair. I'm not sure how it effects beams but it sure screws pulse, most Zealots fit pulse.
Yes the Zealot will eventually catch you, but you can put a world of hurt on him before that, he might even get close enough to hit you, but honestly, I've gimped a Zealot down to the point where a 5km he couldn't scratch me with pulse lasers, with only two TD, and not even good ones, and without training turret destabilzation.. soo.
Quote:
I remember a fight against a Munnin where I had 2 disruptors fitted and was in trouble very fast, that thing hits way too hard, and in the shield tankers weakspots.
I haven't really PvPed against any Muninns but i've 1v1'd against them with some corp mates and my Cerberus came out on top every time against all of his setups.
One setup was effective though against me cause two TDs do nothing to dual 180mm + 1600mm plate, but still the Cerberus was victorious, with a lil armor damage, and I was only using a small gist a-type + photon scattering for tanking.
Perhaps not the best Muninn pilot in the world but he says he has at least level 4 in all the Muninn related skills. That 40% kinetic resistance makes it rather vulnerable to a Cerberus, even when he put a kinetic hardener on I still managed to top him, but anyways..
Quote:
At longer ranges, it's totally different of course, and the Cerberus is then a very nice ship.
That's fine and dandy, but the very reason for which I don't like the Cerberus: long range is too uncommon and there is no close range heavy missile.
Invest in a Domination Warp Scrambler? Don't solo pvp? Solo pir8ing is kinda dead, I mean, people fit WCS out the ass now, 1 scrambler isn't enough to kill most people. That's why I like TDs, they more or less make heavy missiles better, the shorter their range, the longer yours is, I mean, you're cutting a guys optimal by like what? 65% with one TD with a T2 and level 4 turret destab? That means you can get that much closer.. yanno? TDs are awesome. :)
Quote:
I should have mentioned I fit 2 medium NOS II to my Beagle, that fuel the Large Booster II nicely. Good Cerberus pilots are rare, you probably have more experience than me for Eagle versus Cerberus.
Yeah, good Cerberus pilots are rare, the missile skills are new. However the Eagle is slow, just as slow as the Cerberus.. a good Cerberus pilot will kite you and kill you before you get into medium nosferatu range.
Cerberus just does more damage, can use thunderbolts to wear your shield down fast, the large booster probably won't keep up. Cerberus has the (almost) perfect against railguns, rails just don't do very good damage period. I find Eagles to be very tankable and even with their neato shield booster bonus they won't hold up long to thunderbolt spammage.
Quote:
What I know is that my Eagle get much better results against small ships, and can fit blasters instead of rails, which gives it a versatility the Cerberus lacks.
Okay maybe sniping frigates is neat with an Eagle but like, yanno it's kind of sad that's the only role it has in combat. And putting blasters on a ship like the Eagle might trick a few people but it's a novelty setup not something that is actually effective, the only way it works is if someone doesn't see it coming.
Go up against a Deimos like that and you'll probably get worked hard.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.09.27 07:59:00 -
[70]
Jim for President.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.09.27 09:05:00 -
[71]
Lets see here, TD's disrupt turret optimal and tracking by around 55% right? I think the actual number is a bit higher but lets work with that.
With hac 4 a Zealot with heavy pulse and MF has an optimal of 10km. With a single TD activated that optimal goes down to 4.5km. Tracking goes down to a tad less then Heavy Beam tracking. To hit you at midrange he would have to use his longest ranged ammo, infrared or radio.
Beamlots would have an optimal of 21km which then goes down to 9.45km with 55% slower tracking. Not pretty.
Of course before that he would first have to realize he was being disrupted. The pilot could either guess and switch to a longer range ammo or muddle through the fantastic UI, right click > show info, scroll down, check optimal, do the math in his head real quick, ect ect.
I don't even know why i'm posting this as it should be painfully obvious to all pvpers...a single tracking disruptor ****s over turrets, especially lasers. 2 of them, well, it's not pretty.
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:17:00 -
[72]
That was my alt above ^^
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Bubba Bridgeburner
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:17:00 -
[73]
Tracking disruptors eh?
Hehe  finally a use for my overly high Intel attribute.
Thanks again lads,The future seems that much brighter for my ship.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:25:00 -
[74]
Cool stuff Jim...only problem is, the Cerberus is worthless against other HACs without that tracking disruptor. No tracking disruptor=dead cerb. :(
-Wrayeth
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:57:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Cool stuff Jim...only problem is, the Cerberus is worthless against other HACs without that tracking disruptor. No tracking disruptor=dead cerb. :(
dude, you couldnt be more wrong if you tried. Have you really been beaten so senseless with the Clueless stick?
Come on - 2x small gistii's, 2x EM hardeners, 1x large extender, some BCUs/PDUII's and 5 heavy launchers will toast more HACs than you think. i tank every HAC for long enough to break their tanks. so get a clue!
against an ishtar, i have problems, but only if it webs me. if i stay out of nos range and web range = stalemate.
____________________________________________
Custom Sigs Made. Convo for details
http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/
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