Just in case, for those who wouldnt understand, my point is not "LET THE MINIES BE OP", my point is "BALANCE THE GAME PLEASE!".

If that were true, you would have been asking for nerfs up until this point.


I'm not seeing that.

I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races.

The way it was:
GÇó Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively.
GÇó Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks.
GÇó Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit.
GÇó Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation.

How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them.

This

Read the rebalance topics and come back.
And this topic is not about Roleplay also. Get out.

Well, some of their ships were OP (the old cane particularly) but making all their ships becoming **** compared to other races, is may be not the solution, isnt it?

Yes but isnt that balanced?

May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies.

May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies.

Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.

Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty **** except the small ones.

e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails

Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.

You want me to reformulate it princess? Or did you really not understand?

Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, it would be crap to have a whole ship line unbalanced for years.

So you did not understand and you want me to reformulate it, may be my english is too bad, or may be... meh whatever.



Also, i can fly all the ships, so i will fly the new "OP" ships anyway if the game is unbalanced.
But, i dont know why, i prefer having diversity in a game, i find that way more funny, having options, liberty, this kind of things, you know?

Hello mates,
With odyssey there is a lot of stuff coming, and among it there is a lot of rebalance.
Im posting here because im concerned about what they are doing with sub capital minmatar ships.

• Cruise missile will be receiving huge buff
• Large Energy will be buffed
• The tracking enhancer will be strongly NERFED, and even if its not "minmatar dedicated" module, its the main race using it for obvious reasons. (kyte and stuff) And its nerfed while i till dont see any really good reasons for it.

What about minmatars? Typhoon and Mael looks fine, but the Tempest is getting small tweaks, mainly nerfed HP and keeping his poor slot layout compared to the other races changes.

About the new faction BCs, the navy cane is just the old T1 while other races are getting nearly totally new ships (with the navy harbi having more meds than the navy cane, wtf?)

While all the faction cruisers are getting buffed the only one getting nerfed is the Stabber Fleet Issue

[/list]

Hybrids are not perfect, but its till WAY better than what it was before.
And about the gallente recon, i dont see AT ALL what you're talking about.
Domi is becoming a true drone boat, whats wrong with that?

Yes but isnt that balanced?

Tracking Enhancers severely needed to be nerfed as right now they give the same benefit to tracking "and" falloff as a tracking computer does which is an active capacitor using mod using double the cpu and can only provide the same levels of tracking or falloff by loading a script and thus only providing one of the attributes at a time. Anyone who flies minmatar should know this is kind of ridiculous situation.

I like what they are doing as with the addition of the reactive hardener, and now the nerf of tracking enhancers, armour setups will become much more viable as currently shield is far too powerful in terms of its flexibilty and ease of fitting in comparison to armour ships which are a bit*ch to fit well.

I agree with you I would like to see minmatar racial identity preserved. The Tempest is actually getting quite a buff to its HP and the expense of 20 extra signature so I don't know where you get the idea its getting nerfed. Also, it has a similar layout to the old hurricane, one of the most powerful and used ships in the game, so definitley not useless at all.

I would like to see Minmatar ships maintain the speed advantage and sig advantage at the loss of the EHP though. Also the ability to fit shield armour auto or artillery with lots of extra utility slots is one of the defining features of minmatar ships and so I want that to remain.

I am concerned with what they are doing to the Typhoon though at the moment, I think it needs a rethink as it is too similar to the Raven. Apart from that though the minmatar line up looks good though. And I am almost exclusively a minmatar pilot.

I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races.

The way it was:
GÇó Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively.
GÇó Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks.
GÇó Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit.
GÇó Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation.

How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them.

Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty **** except the small ones.

e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails

The Tempest is getting a HP nerf not a HP buff, and about his "20" sig radius thingie, thats not relevant for a battleship even less relevant as a counterpart...

Im mainly flying armor ships, my corp has only armor doctrines. And i dont see in what armor is so weak. Actually if i was a preck i would be happy with this changes.

I dont think AT ALL shield fleets are ultimately OP atm. So yeah, TE nerf is not needed in my eyes, and from far.

Check better, the Tempest is getting a HP nerf, and dont tell me about his "20" sig radius thingie, thats not relevant for a battleship even less relevant as a counterpart...

GǪunless they mean to say that the HP increase is lower than first intended, and that the sig penalty is also lower than the first iteration.

Wheres the Gallente or Minmater EWAR ship?

Lets see.

Current Temepst stats;

armour - 6954
shield - 6211
structure - 6641

Tiericide Tempest stat;

armour - 7300
shield - 7000
structure - 6800

You just lost all credibility, please go away and biomass yourself.

Tempest:

Updated based on feedback to make the Tempest Minmatar's second attack battleship. This keeps its sig down, lowers its mass slightly, at the cost of lower hp.

Ok, so you think its acceptable that tracking enhancers are far better then TC's despite the fact they cost less cpu, dont use any cap, and also give both tracking and range bonus at the same time? lol

So basically what Im getting is your dont have any experience in fitting ships as your corp babysits you and does it all for you because you clearly know nothing.


Lets see.

Current Temepst stats;

armour - 6954
shield - 6211
structure - 6641

Tiericide Tempest stat;

armour - 7300
shield - 7000
structure - 6800

You just lost all credibility, please go away and biomass yourself.

Yeah because the thread is just about the Tempest EHP.
I recognize my mistakes, you should recognize when you shouldnt post.

Oh that quote wasn't just about the tempest's EHP. Maybe you should realize when to give up?

Op no offense but I think you're a little bit overlooking some numbers.

We didn't called Minmatar ships line "winmatar" for nothing, there's a good reason for it. After all the changes already don, those coming soon and hope others will follow to adjust whatever is wrong, I can finally have the feeling that now you have a good reason to specialize in one race rather than cross train for whatever op thing of the moment.

This is an important change, of course some ships will still be better either because of meta gaming or because some bonus/whatever the heck stat is clearly too much, but the end of line is that while races are getting their flavor back they're not equal but all or at least most are more interesting than ever. This is a huge and important change.

Minmatar will still be the fastest ones, will still be the race applying huge amounts of dps with short range weapons at ranges where some operate in optimal of their long range ones, on top of dmg selection that is a very important factor to retain.

They're not the best at everything anymore? -yes and this is good, this is fantastic, this is great for all pilots that some day choose another race than Minmatar for their first months training just to figure out they're loosing their time with consequences with in the game it self (minmatar everywhere) and also in players retention (smaller number but still).


I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm the first one moaning and never happy because when it's done I always think better is possible, I'm just trying to explain from my point of view that now races and ships are getting much better balanced which is a good thing so players have more options.
Also because ships that we wouldn't see anywhere than BPC's and market a year or two ago, now are used and people have fun with, this is also fantastic and good on the long term for the game and the community.

I do, and there is nothing to give up there. Rebalance is till not balanced.

About TCs, do you ever heard about scripts? Moreover, its more a question of slots, do you ever heard about getting ewar in low slots?

You must be kidding me.
The scripted TC gives 3x more tracking than the TE while giving the same optimal/fallof bonus if scripted.
If the only problem is that TC scripted have same bonuses for fallof/opti than TEs, then buff TCs.

You can check killboards, as i said i fly mainly armor ships, why would I fckin defend TEs if i didnt thought there is no need to nerf it because this is already balanced?

Will you ever fit a TC on a shield setup?

You must be kidding me.
The scripted TC gives 3x more tracking than the TE while giving the same optimal/fallof bonus if scripted.

If the only problem is that TC scripted have same bonuses for fallof/opti than TEs, then buff TCs.

GǪand that's the problem. The TC should be better than the TE when unscripted, and better in one area when scripted.

Optimal Range +15%, Falloff +30%, Tracking Speed +9.5% for a passive, easy-to-fit module compared to half that when you fit an active, hard-to-fit module. On those two facts alone, the TE and TC should swap bonuses.

Big GÇ£ifGÇ¥. As it happens, it's not the only problem with TEs. Another is what they simply give too high a bonus. They push the ranges turrets far too far, so buffing the TC to be even worse is a particularly bad solution. TEs need their bonuses reduced just because. On top of that, they need their bonuses reduced in comparison with TCs. On top of that, they need their bonuses reduced to match their fitting requirements.

GǪoh, and on top of that, they need to have their bonuses reduced to make it sensible to fit something else in those lowslots and not turn all but the most specialist armour-tanking ships into shield tankers. TEs made it worth-while to shield tank a 3-mid Thorax because it gave you better gank'n'tank than if you put armour in the lowslots.

They should have been nerfed into the ground ages ago. Now is just a better time since it coincides with a large-scale ship rebalance that provides some context and bigger picture.

Secret whine thread not so secret.

Minmatar have been regarded as the best PvP race in the game. None of the OP mentioned things will really harm Matar's top position

Stop being so doom n gloom

When you nerf something and at the same time grossly buff its competition... You essentially are making that thing worthless.

Balance is not to "give turns" to races to be good.

Not really, no.
If you nerf something and at the same time grossly buff its competition, the end relative position will depend on the starting relative position and the size of the nerfs/buffs. Whether it ends up worthless or not does not depend on just the nerfs and buffs.

In this case, they're nerfing some obviously overpowered modules, nerfing a minmatar ship or two, buffing a few others, and then bringing everything else up to the same spec GÇö nothing is rendered worthless in the process, since everything converges at some middle point.

Good thing that they're not really doing that, then, but rather are trying to put everyone on roughly the same level.

The funny thing is CCP hasn't actually finalised any changes yet and CCP Rise has said he is considering giving the Tempest further improvements once people have actually used the ships on the Test server.

Minmatar are already too powerful. And come on, can nobody see the power in the tempest? It's already powerful, but now it's getting dedicated armour tanking and torpedoes - that's capless tank and capless firepower!

I feel like most of the people in here can only fly one of the races being disgustingly buffed and their ship-boners are driving them to support the game being rigged in their favor.

I feel like most of the people in here do what most people do and fly just about everything, and their ship-boners are driving them to support a game change that means more of their available ships are actually viable choices.

No, go look at the proposed changes and its obvious they are just nerfing minmatar to the ground.

Moved to the correct forum.

CCP are not daft. They know how popular Mini ships are, there is no way they will nerf them into the ground.

If the buff to other races prove to be too much then they will fix it.

as Odd Ball once said "Have a little faith baby, have a little faith"

Moved to the correct forum.

So Winmatar becomes Minmatar? Fine by me.

Hello mates,
With odyssey there is a lot of stuff coming, and among it there is a lot of rebalance.
Im posting here because im concerned about what they are doing with sub capital minmatar ships.
Cheers.

Hello mates,
With odyssey there is a lot of stuff coming, and among it there is a lot of rebalance.
Im posting here because im concerned about what they are doing with sub capital minmatar ships.

Before starting to explain why, i would like to say that i can fly all the subcaps perfectly with all my characters, so its not like im raging because of being scared of losing anything. I am just worried about the so called "rebalance" which looks to be a huge troll for minies.

While nearly all the races are getting buffed (I am fine with that, its just a fact in the global idea that minmatars are getting screwed), minmatars are mainly getting nerfs and losing what make them fun to play : agility and speed.

• Cruise missile will be receiving huge buff
• Large Energy will be buffed
• The tracking enhancer will be strongly NERFED, and even if its not "minmatar dedicated" module, its the main race using it for obvious reasons. (kyte and stuff) And its nerfed while i till dont see any really good reasons for it.

About the ship themselves, it is kinda the same, except about the T1 stabber but the main minmatar ship line is getting really screwed compared to other ships, and mainly about their main racial characteristic : agility and speed.

• Gallentes are having all their battleship line getting a new youngness with new slots layouts/bonuses
• Caldari BS are globally buffed
• Amarr is buffed (this armag \o/!)
• What about minmatars? Typhoon and Mael looks fine, but the Tempest is getting small tweaks, mainly keeping his poor slot layout compared to the other races changes.
• About the new faction BCs, the navy cane is just the old T1 while other races are getting nearly totally new ships (with the navy harbi having more meds than the navy cane, wtf?)
• While all the faction cruisers are getting buffed the only one getting nerfed is the Stabber Fleet Issue

But the worst in this, is that as a result of all this buffs/nerf, Minmatar line of ships is nearly not anymore the more agile/fast line of ships. So they are getting nerfed, and lose their racial "natural strength" to other races for lots of ships. While other races are receiving STRONG buffs.

Apparently CCP Rise is well aware of that for his part. Im more concerned about what is doing CCP Fozzie who looks blind to that.

TL;DR : With the rebalance announces for Odyssey Minmatars subcap hulls are gonna be under powered compared to other races, please dont forget them.

Thank's for reading guys, and i would be really happy to know what you think about this.
Also please dont make this thread personnal, again, im fine with the buffs they made on other races, im just concerned about a "fair" rebalance.

Cheers.

I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races.

The way it was:
GÇó Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively.
GÇó Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks.
GÇó Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit.
GÇó Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation.

How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them.

-They've 'brought back' the old drake/hurricane via the navy version and the drake is much more buffed (over the cane)

No, go look at the proposed changes and its obvious they are just nerfing minmatar to the ground.

18
Capsule
22,178

19
Maller
21,082

20
Maelstrom
19,308