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Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 43	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:33:00 - [1] - Quote Hello mates, With odyssey there is a lot of stuff coming, and among it there is a lot of rebalance. Im posting here because im concerned of what they are doing with sub capital minmatar ships. Before starting to explain why, i would like to say that i can fly all the subcaps perfectly with all my characters, so its not like im raging because of being scared of losing anything. I am just worried about the so called "rebalance" which looks to be a huge troll for minies. While nearly all the races are getting buffed (I am fine with that, its just a fact in the global idea that minmatars are getting screwed), minmatars are mainly getting nerfs and losing what make them fun to play : agility and speed. Cruise missile will be receiving huge buff Large Energy will be buffed The tracking enhancer will be strongly NERFED, and even if its not "minmatar dedicated" module, its the main race using it for obvious reasons. (Agility, kyte and stuff) About the ship themselves, it is kinda the same, except about the T1 stabber but the main minmatar ship line is getting really screwed compared to other ships, and mainly about their main racial characteristic : agility and speed. Gallentes are having all their battleship line getting a new youngness with new slots layouts/bonuses Caldari BS are globally buffed Amarr is buffed (this armag \o/!) What about minmatars? Typhoon and Mael looks fine, but the Tempest is getting small tweaks, mainly nerfed HP and keeping his poor slot layout compared to the other races changes. About the new faction BCs, the navy cane is just the old T1 while other races are getting nearly totally new ships (with the navy harbi having more meds than the navy cane, wtf?) While all the faction cruisers are getting buffed the only one getting nerfed is the Stabber Fleet Issue But the worst in this, is that as a result of all this buffs/nerf, Minmatar line of ships is nearly not anymore the more agile/fast line of ships. So they are getting nerfed, and lose their racial "natural strength" to other races for lots of ships. Apparently CCP Rise is well aware of that for his part. Im more concerned about what is doing CCP Fozzie who looks blind to that. TL;DR : Minmatars are getting screwed with the next patch, please dont forget them. Thank's for reading guys, and i would be really happy to know what you think about this. Also please dont make this thread a personnal, again, im fine with the buffs they made on other races, im just concerned about a "fair" rebalance. Cheers.
Akiyo Mayaki 164	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:36:00 - [2] - Quote Aren't the Minmatar best known for saving themselves? No
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 321	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:40:00 - [3] - Quote I do believe that it is full circle CCP put them on top nao they are nerfing them to the ground..for some reason that is calling balancing. And it is obvious. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 44	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:41:00 - [4] - Quote Im affraid this time they need some help
Sulistus Angelus Tempestas 0	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:41:00 - [5] - Quote While I'm no big city lawyer, seems to me that they are simply bringing Winmatar back in line with everyone else. WeGÇÖll see after the patch I guess, but I cant see anything so far thatGÇÖs going to be game changing. Sure they are going to lose their inherent GÇ£gtfoGÇ¥ advantage but hey, fair is fair right? There is a very good reason why about 80% of small gang/solo dudes in null run Minnie ships.
Saheed Cha'chris'ra Krautz WH Exploration and Production 1	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:42:00 - [6] - Quote Seems legit. CCP, hear this man. Don't forget us Minmatar, give us some love too! But anyway, i think there are more module-updates yet to come, as the last thread was titled with "Part One". Lets hope that we can trust in rust even after the expansion.
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 44	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:44:00 - [7] - Quote Well, some of their ships were OP (the old cane particularly) but make all their ships becoming **** compared to other races, is may be not the solution, isnt it?
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 1373	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:48:00 - [8] - Quote Oh god, what will I fly? What's the new FOTM? Help! Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008.
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 44	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:50:00 - [9] - Quote FOTM? Anyway, just in case, for those who wouldnt understand, my point is not "LET THE MINIES BE OP", my point is "BALANCE THE GAME PLEASE!".
Jame Jarl Retief Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 1074	Posted - 2013.04.24 12:59:00 - [10] - Quote Honestly, I've yet to see an MMO where balancing wasn't circular. That is, one group will be insanely powerful, then the wheel will turn and that group will gradually decline until it is the worst for a while, at which point it will be buffed (or everything else nerfed) and it is once again the strongest. Happened in every MMO I ever played. Most of the time it is EXTREMELY obvious (see EVE top 20 killboard). And don't give me that "it's a fleet doctrine" excuse. In a balanced game, each race's ships would have equal probability of becoming fleet doctrine ships, and usage distribution would be a lot more even. Bottom line - roll with it. Fortunately (or perhaps unfortunately) cross-training in EVE is easy enough, just train for the FOTY (Flavour of the Year) race and play away. I say "perhaps unfortunately" because this ease of switching between races comes at a price. Where in other games where switching is hard/extremely time-consuming (you start at square one with a new char), where people unwilling to switch to FOTY will moan and whine and trigger the balancing wheel to move faster, in a game like EVE most will quickly cross-train and the wheel will tend to remain motionless for years and years. So, in EVE's terms, FOTY is more likely to be FOTDecade. It ain't gonna change. To the best of my knowledge, no MMO developer (or heck, even game developer, period) has managed a relatively complex, balanced game.
Jake Warbird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2434	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:02:00 - [11] - Quote So Winmatar becomes Minmatar? Fine by me.
Schmata Bastanold Keep It Burning Stupid 722	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:06:00 - [12] - Quote So our fathers gave their blood and life in rebellion against oppressors for freedom you are wasting on making whine threads? I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Sulistus Angelus Tempestas 1	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:06:00 - [13] - Quote Donedy wrote: Just in case, for those who wouldnt understand, my point is not "LET THE MINIES BE OP", my point is "BALANCE THE GAME PLEASE!". If that were true, you would have been asking for nerfs up until this point. I'm not seeing that.
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:09:00 - [14] - Quote Sulistus wrote: Donedy wrote: Just in case, for those who wouldnt understand, my point is not "LET THE MINIES BE OP", my point is "BALANCE THE GAME PLEASE!". If that were true, you would have been asking for nerfs up until this point. I'm not seeing that. Read the rebalance topics and come back. And this topic is not about Roleplay also. Get out.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 238	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:13:00 - [15] - Quote I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races. The way it was: GÇó Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively. GÇó Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks. GÇó Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit. GÇó Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation. How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:14:00 - [16] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races. The way it was: GÇó Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively. GÇó Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks. GÇó Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit. GÇó Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation. How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them. This
Zangorus Big Shadows Initiative Mercenaries 693	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:18:00 - [17] - Quote Donedy wrote: Liam Inkuras wrote: I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races. The way it was: GÇó Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively. GÇó Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks. GÇó Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit. GÇó Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation. How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them. This Yes but isnt that balanced? Like my comment and recieve 1 million isk ingame!
Sulistus Angelus Tempestas 1	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:19:00 - [18] - Quote Donedy wrote: Sulistus wrote: Donedy wrote: Just in case, for those who wouldnt understand, my point is not "LET THE MINIES BE OP", my point is "BALANCE THE GAME PLEASE!". If that were true, you would have been asking for nerfs up until this point. I'm not seeing that. Read the rebalance topics and come back. And this topic is not about Roleplay also. Get out. Who mentioned roleplay? I think you need to tone down the crazy over there. I've read the topics. As I said in my post above, i see no game changing issues with the proposed changes. Just because your FOTM ships are getting a wee tweak doesn't mean you have to come here and get all buthurt.
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:20:00 - [19] - Quote It would be just racial lines. Then the hardest is to balance yeah. What CCP is doing atm, its just mixing a bit of everything for every ship. Sulistus, I was not talking about roleplay to you. Anyway you're getting personnal, and if you already read the rebalance topics, then i cant do anything for you.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13801	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:21:00 - [20] - Quote Donedy wrote: Well, some of their ships were OP (the old cane particularly) but making all their ships becoming **** compared to other races, is may be not the solution, isnt it? No, and it's not what they're doing either. Minmatar ships will still be the faster and more agile GÇö just with a smaller margin than before (or, more accurately, with a margin that is more easily overcome with the other races' strengths). GÇ£Some of their shipsGÇ¥ are exactly the ones being touched, but that leaves the overall problem of Minmatar having a racial focus that in practical terms was far more viable than the others have, which means one of two things have to happen: either all Minny ships get nerfed, or everyone else gets buffed. Oddly, they chose the latter, well aware of the fact that this tends to lead to power creep, but without undoing the entire tiercide change (effectively making all ships useless instead of making them all reasonably functional), it was really the only way to go. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Sulistus Angelus Tempestas 2	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:21:00 - [21] - Quote Zangorus wrote: Donedy wrote: Liam Inkuras wrote: I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races. The way it was: GÇó Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively. GÇó Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks. GÇó Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit. GÇó Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation. How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them. This Yes but isnt that balanced? CCP think its not, speed is too much of an advantage for one race to have. As I said above, a huge percentage of small scale pvp in null is done in Minni ships. There is a very good reason for that, they are BETTER than the other races ships at small gang. Hence the slight nerfs. I really dont see how anyone can look at that objectively and have an issue with it.
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:25:00 - [22] - Quote May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies. If you buff all the the other races to same/better speed & agility than minies (what is happening for the rebalanced ships) and dont touch the minnie hulls, there will be a clear disadvanatage for minies anyway.
Sulistus Angelus Tempestas 2	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:28:00 - [23] - Quote Donedy wrote: May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies. CCP are not daft. They know how popular Mini ships are, there is no way they will nerf them into the ground. If the buff to other races prove to be too much then they will fix it. as Odd Ball once said "Have a little faith baby, have a little faith"
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:30:00 - [24] - Quote Well hybrids were ** during years, and CCP let them be ** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.
Ruskarn Andedare Lion Investments 126	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:35:00 - [25] - Quote Donedy wrote: May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies. Whereas the Gallente pilots, especially those that have heavily trained drones, reckon Gallente is being nerfed as they feel they now have to fly Amarr if they want an efficient drone boat as the Gallente ships are being mainly changed to have bonusses that might be useful with some future expansion but are useless at present. The Amarr pilots are freaking as they now have to fly drones if they want to use a lot of their ships. The world is changing and we all have to adapt. I do agree to some extent about the blandness factor but don't see it being as bad as it is being painted (so far, time will tell).
Ruskarn Andedare Lion Investments 126	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:37:00 - [26] - Quote Donedy wrote: Well hybrids were ** during years, and CCP let them be during years, i dont want that for a ship line. Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty ** except the small ones. e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:45:00 - [27] - Quote Ruskarn Andedare wrote: Donedy wrote: Well hybrids were ** during years, and CCP let them be during years, i dont want that for a ship line. Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty ** except the small ones. e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails Hybrids are not perfect, but its till WAY better than what it was before.
Ripblade Falconpunch State War Academy Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:48:00 - [28] - Quote Donedy wrote: Well hybrids were ** during years, and CCP let them be ** during years, i dont want that for a ship line. Clearly the game is about what "you" want, right?
Donedy Snuff Box Urine Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.04.24 14:02:00 - [29] - Quote You want me to reformulate it princess?
Ripblade Falconpunch State War Academy Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.04.24 14:07:00 - [30] - Quote Donedy wrote: You want me to reformulate it princess? Or did you really not understand? I'd like you to reformulate it please. Because all I'm hearing is a giant man-baby whining about Winmatar ships finally getting put in line with the rest of them. You might have to fly a ship that's on the same level as the other races, how shocking!

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