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Mining payoff - nullsec vs. highsec

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Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 59	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:08:00 - [1] - Quote Did mining in highsec for a while, as it was the best way out of everything I tried to get money. And it was totally boring looking at the same low-grade ore for hours, days, and weeks on end. "Oh look, another veldspar!" The most exciting thing was maybe finding some pristine massive scordite that hadn't already been chewed on, which I could suck on for a good long while without having to reset a laser. Always coveted these other ores I'd heard of but never even seen - stuff like dark ochre, or golden whatever. Well, upon getting into nullsec and finally getting a chance to mine some of this stuff, what I found out is, much to my dismay, a lot of the stuff is actually LESS lucrative to mine because of the volume the stuff takes up. Or, the lucrativity will be on par with boring highsec stuff, give or take. There's a few of these exotic ores that are somewhat better than the highsec stuff. But when you factor in the other elements - having to constantly be on alert for belt rat spawns (hint: these things can't be killed by a few measly drones, i.e. they are battleships), having to constantly be on alert for some ganker, never being able to afk mine, etc. it totally isn't worth it. Is there something I missed? Was my return-on-investment calculation off?
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 426	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:11:00 - [2] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: Is there something I missed? Or was my return-on-investment calculation off? You can do a little better on avoiding gankers if you do hidden belts in industry upgraded systems, but that is about it. On the whole, nullsec mining sucks and those highend ores aren't quite as magical once you actually have to mine them and get them to market. If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec.
Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 316	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:14:00 - [3] - Quote No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it. Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores. I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 59	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:22:00 - [4] - Quote Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec. I didn't seriously want to mine - I wanted to do other things. I was just surprised to to find out that Quote: the best isk/effort is in highsec. Anyway, thanks.
Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 59	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:23:00 - [5] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: [quote=Shepard Wong Ogeko] If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec. I didn't seriously want to mine - I wanted to do other things. I was just surprised to to find out that Quote: the best isk/effort is in highsec. Anyway, thanks.
Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 59	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:23:00 - [6] - Quote Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec. I didn't seriously want to mine - I wanted to do other things. I was just surprised to to find out that Quote: the best isk/effort is in highsec. Anyway, thanks.[/quote]
Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 316	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:26:00 - [7] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec. I didn't seriously want to mine - I wanted to do other things. I was just surprised to to find out that Quote: the best isk/effort is in highsec. Anyway, thanks. Hrm... If you don't actually like mining, why don't you spend $15 on a plex and just use that for a while. I personally find mining relaxing, so I do it, but if I didn't I'd just spend the money to go PvP. I mean, if you had money from mining, what would you be doing? If you can tell me that, I can tell you how. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 427	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:28:00 - [8] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it. Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores. I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen. The other side to this is that highsec miners don't mine a comparative amount of low ends. The biggest mining fleets are usually doing ice instead.
Toshiroma McDiesel Lupus Draconis Dragehund 118	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:40:00 - [9] - Quote Same old argument I've seen before. If people really want to fix the disparity in price for hisec/nullsec ores, we need lots more people mining in Hisec, and far less mining Null. Maybe even more Null miner ganking. Couple years back I once saw a Goon state that he would gank any Goon he caught mining. I wonder if he ever did. *I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.*
Dave Stark 2846	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:41:00 - [10] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it. Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores. I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen. i'm pretty sure this post demonstrates that you know nothing of how null sec mining works.

Dave Stark 2846	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:43:00 - [11] - Quote Toshiroma McDiesel wrote: we need lots more people mining in Hisec, and far less mining Null. but, it's already like that.
Toshiroma McDiesel Lupus Draconis Dragehund 118	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:47:00 - [12] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Toshiroma McDiesel wrote: we need lots more people mining in Hisec, and far less mining Null. but, it's already like that. I know, but I'm still seeing whine posts every now and again about the income disparity. At least this one didn't come right out and say that "CCP NEEDS TO FIX IT!" *I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.*
Dave Stark 2846	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:47:00 - [13] - Quote Toshiroma McDiesel wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Toshiroma McDiesel wrote: we need lots more people mining in Hisec, and far less mining Null. but, it's already like that. I know, but I'm still seeing whine posts every now and again about the income disparity. At least this one didn't come right out and say that "CCP NEEDS TO FIX IT!" actually, due to recent price shifts, null sec mining is once again more profitable than high sec mining. a few months ago the reverse was true. however, i feel this is temporary due to odyssey speculation.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 3320	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:52:00 - [14] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: but, it's already like that. Look at that...WH and lowsec...unaffected by Hulkageddon. Wait...what was the point of this thread again? *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Dave Stark 2846	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:54:00 - [15] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Dave Stark wrote: but, it's already like that. Look at that...WH and lowsec...unaffected by Hulkageddon. Wait...what was the point of this thread again? how can you tell? it's practically 0 for both sectors of space all year round.
Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 316	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:58:00 - [16] - Quote I've never done anything in null other than roam with people, but my small understanding of economics tells me that if people didn't supply minerals that were mostly only found in Null, that people wouldn't be able to buy it, therefore driving prices upwards. Or am I mistaken that prices go down when certain commodities are in short supply? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
EvilweaselSA GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 574	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:58:00 - [17] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it. Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores. I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen. it's devalued because it's produced by cycling grav anoms, so it's overproduced essentially it's a junk product of a grav anom instead of something people deliberately mine
Dave Stark 2846	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:00:00 - [18] - Quote EvilweaselSA wrote: Captain Tardbar wrote: No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it. Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores. I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen. it's devalued because it's produced by cycling grav anoms, so it's overproduced essentially it's a junk product of a grav anom instead of something people deliberately mine this, people don't really get a choice if they want to mine mercoxit or not.
Tank Talbot Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:11:00 - [19] - Quote Sadly, we have often read that the word fun does not appear in CCP design documents. Instead they cover making things feel real. I wonder if as an unintended side effect a new game mechanic was created? It functions whereby the more boring a game job is the more it pays and thus the more exciting a game job proves the less it pays...
Sentamon 859	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:13:00 - [20] - Quote When there's some sort of actual risk to nullsec mining the nullsec ores will be worth way more. Asmodai Xodai wrote: But when you factor in the other elements - having to constantly be on alert for belt rat spawns (hint: these things can't be killed by a few measly drones, i.e. they are battleships), having to constantly be on alert for some ganker, never being able to afk mine, etc. it totally isn't worth it. Yeah right, try mining with something other then a 9 day old toon in non-alliance territory. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~

Dave Stark 2848	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:15:00 - [21] - Quote Sentamon wrote: When there's some sort of actual risk to nullsec mining the nullsec ores will be worth way more. when you're forced to mine ores worth 2m isk/can because they're just terrible, no amount of risk either way will change that.
violator2k5 RogueRaiders 5	Posted - 2013.04.26 00:53:00 - [22] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: There's a few of these exotic ores that are somewhat better than the highsec stuff. But when you factor in the other elements - having to constantly be on alert for belt rat spawns (hint: these things can't be killed by a few measly drones, i.e. they are battleships), having to constantly be on alert for some ganker, never being able to afk mine, etc. it totally isn't worth it. Is there something I missed? Was my return-on-investment calculation off? why are you mining when you could be smacking those hauler spawns and pulling at least 50-75mil units of trit for a little pewpew + possible chance at other random amounts of minerals dropping too? out of those 68 ppl in your corp surely you could organize 1 or 2 of them to belt rat while you mine, so it would help you at least a little. Plus it would get rid of the boredom just sitting there when you could be on voice coms talking with them and the only 2 things you'd really have to pay attention to in the end would be local and when you either need to change roids or empty your hull. I can understand your frustration at the amount of income on both of those however the main minerals refined from null sec ore as you know are zyd, mega and morphite. admittingly you can get zyd from low sec but in much smaller quantities and have a greater chance at being ganked by pirates while mining compared to null sec unless your on lock down due to being camped in or under constant attack from hostiles. what do you think would happen if the supply to empire from null sec and w-space on those 3 minerals was stopped or put on hold for a while would do? personally I think that it would increase prices thus increase the prices on ships and t2 stuffs, there will always be a supply of zyd / mega which would come from mission runners refining loot, just not in the quantities of which is needed.
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance 902	Posted - 2013.04.26 01:15:00 - [23] - Quote Today's prices: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6913/apr25ore.jpg Payoff depends on several factors. In general though, mining prices have gone from nullsec being on top, to high now to more of a half and half. Hemo and Hedber are really low sec ores, but they are more plentiful in nullsec. The payout will also depend on if you have orca or rorq support. The rorq is really a big boost and if you don't have it, then yeah it's not going to be much different than highsec. In any case, mining in null isn't really to make isk imo. I mine veld and other ores out of industry necessity, not to make isk. If I wanted to make isk, I'd just stay in highsec. Much easier and I could do 10 other things at the same time. It's also boring as hell. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 60	Posted - 2013.04.26 01:52:00 - [24] - Quote violator2k5 wrote: why are you mining when you could be smacking those hauler spawns and pulling at least 50-75mil units of trit for a little pewpew + possible chance at other random amounts of minerals dropping too? 1. Not really 'mining.' I just prospected it is all. All I've ever heard from day one is that all the lucrative ore is in nullsec, that high risk = high reward, while low risk = low reward, that there was this dark ochre and golden omber and spudamain floating around nullsec, blah blah. So I get there and check it out, and the volume of minerals per unit is so high that it's not any more lucrative than highsec, and certainly not once you've factored in the risk. I'm not issuing a complaint. At all. I'm issuing my surprise, and wondering if I got something wrong. Since folks here concur, it seems I didn't. My advice for people lusting for nullsec ore is to stay in highsec and mine scordite. Again, I was just surprised as hell is all. 2. I know nothing of hauler spawns, where they spawn, how often they spawn, blah blah. Quote: out of those 68 ppl in your corp surely you could organize 1 or 2 of them to belt rat while you mine, so it would help you at least a little. Possibly. But I don't like to annoy people, and it does seem that most of them are doing something more important than running escort for some lowly miner. Also, I get the impression that mining is somewhat looked-down on. No one has actually said that, it's just an impression. Again, I'm not complaining that I can't mine. In fact, I did mine just to prospect the ores. I'm just registering my extreme surprise that all this dark ochre and golden omber and spudomain floating around isn't worth any more than just grinding scordite in highsec. That's my only point. Does anyone else find this as strange?
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1703	Posted - 2013.04.26 02:18:00 - [25] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: Did mining in highsec for a while, as it was the best way out of everything I tried to get money. you REALLY didnt try very hard, did you? i cant even hypothetically think of a PVE profession that earns less than mining...
Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 60	Posted - 2013.04.26 02:26:00 - [26] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Asmodai Xodai wrote: Did mining in highsec for a while, as it was the best way out of everything I tried to get money. you REALLY didnt try very hard, did you? i cant even hypothetically think of a PVE profession that earns less than mining... You really like to make strong statements about things you know little about, don't you? Under the baseline conditions I was working with (new very low-skilled character, no money, a lone actor, etc) - yes, it was the best. Trading requires 1) lots of money, and 2) lots of trading knowledge, as well as skills. To make more money hauling than I did mining would require a freighter, which means skills and money. Making lucrative money missioning requires level 4s, and I had just recently only gotten into level 2s. Ratting in highsec is a joke. Etc. Yes, mining was the best by far. I could pull 5 million every 45 minutes or thereabouts. Nothing else I tried was close.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 8835	Posted - 2013.04.26 03:20:00 - [27] - Quote Toshiroma McDiesel wrote: Same old argument I've seen before. If people really want to fix the disparity in price for hisec/nullsec ores, we need lots more people mining in Hisec, and far less mining Null. Maybe even more Null miner ganking. Couple years back I once saw a Goon state that he would gank any Goon he caught mining. I wonder if he ever did. It would also help if the main source of ores in 0.0 (mining anomalies) didn't have a lower per-m^3 ore value than hi-sec belts. Add low-end minerals to Spodumain, several problems mitigated at once. Malcanis' Law:-á "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
violator2k5 RogueRaiders 6	Posted - 2013.04.26 04:08:00 - [28] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: 2. I know nothing of hauler spawns, where they spawn, how often they spawn, blah blah. Possibly. But I don't like to annoy people, and it does seem that most of them are doing something more important than running escort for some lowly miner. Also, I get the impression that mining is somewhat looked-down on. No one has actually said that, it's just an impression. Hauler spawns appear in high sec, low sec and null sec space. I have no idea of the chances on finding them as to me its completely random. I've came across 2 of those spawns in high sec and several of them in null sec. They appear in the belts you mine in, in the form of npc rats. Considering your in null sec space I believe they come up as BS sized npc's so it might be a good idea to check them out by clicking on them to see which icon appears. I didn't check your char age before responding last time just the size of your corp. There is 2 questions i'd like to ask which I think might bring some light to your thoughts about the difference in returns for mining. 1) are you using a exhumer to mine, if so which one? 2) can you use T2 crystals for the ore your mining? with regards to the other comment you made about your corp there is indeed a mind set by a lot of players in this game which look down on "null bears and carebears" yet they seem to forget that its thanks to their help that they have the mods and ships to fly to continue their pvp/ pve'n. as for the help thing you really wont know until you ask. if there a decent 0.0 corp looking to help their members grow and be faithful towards them then they'll try to assist you when they have free time, keep in mind though that you may not always get assistance and they may get pissed off if you ask for help when there's an alliance op going on
Asmodai Xodai Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement 60	Posted - 2013.04.26 04:26:00 - [29] - Quote violator2k5 wrote: 1) are you using a exhumer to mine, if so which one? 2) can you use T2 crystals for the ore your mining? 1. Retriever. 2. Normally, yes. But in these cases, it was nullsec ores I was prospecting, and I only trained crystals for stuff like scordite in highsec, so no. The exhumer (or lack of one) and crystals is irrelevant though. The point I'm making is, the nullsec ores often field less money at market than, or are on par with, highsec ores. Crokite, Golden Omber, whatever - doesn't matter. It's all either on par with, or beneath, the highsec stuff. I only found a couple of these exotic ores that fielded more cash, but not substantially more, than the highsec stuff. The point is, the amount of volume per unit of ore is huge with the nullsec stuff. So you check the prices at market and think your getting rich. But that doesn't factor in volume per unit of ore. When you factor that volume in, you aren't making jack crap. The easy, no brainer way to do this is to simply mine a complete cargohold full of the stuff, and mouse over it to see how much you could sell it for. Oh, the price may be 700-1000 ISK vs. 35 ISK for Scordite (numbers out of my ass). But the mouseover tells the story, as you can only sell the entire load for the same or less as the Scordite you used to mine in highsec.
violator2k5 RogueRaiders 6	Posted - 2013.04.26 05:03:00 - [30] - Quote Asmodai Xodai wrote: violator2k5 wrote: 1) are you using a exhumer to mine, if so which one? 2) can you use T2 crystals for the ore your mining? 1. Retriever. 2. Normally, yes. But in these cases, it was nullsec ores I was prospecting, and I only trained crystals for stuff like scordite in highsec, so no. The easy, no brainer way to do this is to simply mine a complete cargohold full of the stuff, and mouse over it to see how much you could sell it for. Oh, the price may be 700-1000 ISK vs. 35 ISK for Scordite (numbers out of my ass). But the mouseover tells the story, as you can only sell the entire load for the same or less as the Scordite you used to mine in highsec. ok I can see what your saying however, I need to point out one thing for you, using that mouse over to get a idea of price range is a bad idea since every region is different and its best to work it out from the markets selling cost if you don't want to refine it and sell the minerals yourself later when your skills are good for refining. the best way to work out how much you can make usually its based on a per hour basis. considering your using a retriever idk if you have a full 25% extra cargo space as the bonus from the mining barge skill as its supposed to give 5% bonus per level for that ship. besides that t2 crystals help you mine more ore per cycle and with an exhumer you can mine even more per hour too.



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