Is there something I missed? Or was my return-on-investment calculation off?

If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec.

the best isk/effort is in highsec.

[quote=Shepard Wong Ogeko]
If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec.

the best isk/effort is in highsec.

If you seriously just want to mine, the best isk/effort is in highsec.

the best isk/effort is in highsec.

I didn't seriously want to mine - I wanted to do other things. I was just surprised to to find out that


Anyway, thanks.

No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it.

Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores.

I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen.

No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it.

Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores.

I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen.

we need lots more people mining in Hisec, and far less mining Null.

but, it's already like that.

I know, but I'm still seeing whine posts every now and again about the income disparity. At least this one didn't come right out and say that "CCP NEEDS TO FIX IT!"

but, it's already like that.

Look at that...WH and lowsec...unaffected by Hulkageddon.


Wait...what was the point of this thread again?

No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it.

Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores.

I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen.

it's devalued because it's produced by cycling grav anoms, so it's overproduced

essentially it's a junk product of a grav anom instead of something people deliberately mine

But when you factor in the other elements - having to constantly be on alert for belt rat spawns (hint: these things can't be killed by a few measly drones, i.e. they are battleships), having to constantly be on alert for some ganker, never being able to afk mine, etc. it totally isn't worth it.

When there's some sort of actual risk to nullsec mining the nullsec ores will be worth way more.

There's a few of these exotic ores that are somewhat better than the highsec stuff. But when you factor in the other elements - having to constantly be on alert for belt rat spawns (hint: these things can't be killed by a few measly drones, i.e. they are battleships), having to constantly be on alert for some ganker, never being able to afk mine, etc. it totally isn't worth it.

Is there something I missed? Was my return-on-investment calculation off?

why are you mining when you could be smacking those hauler spawns and pulling at least 50-75mil units of trit for a little pewpew + possible chance at other random amounts of minerals dropping too?

out of those 68 ppl in your corp surely you could organize 1 or 2 of them to belt rat while you mine, so it would help you at least a little.

Did mining in highsec for a while, as it was the best way out of everything I tried to get money.

you REALLY didnt try very hard, did you?
i cant even hypothetically think of a PVE profession that earns less than mining...

Same old argument I've seen before. If people really want to fix the disparity in price for hisec/nullsec ores, we need lots more people mining in Hisec, and far less mining Null. Maybe even more Null miner ganking.

Couple years back I once saw a Goon state that he would gank any Goon he caught mining. I wonder if he ever did.

2. I know nothing of hauler spawns, where they spawn, how often they spawn, blah blah.

Possibly. But I don't like to annoy people, and it does seem that most of them are doing something more important than running escort for some lowly miner. Also, I get the impression that mining is somewhat looked-down on. No one has actually said that, it's just an impression.

1) are you using a exhumer to mine, if so which one?

2) can you use T2 crystals for the ore your mining?

1. Retriever.
2. Normally, yes. But in these cases, it was nullsec ores I was prospecting, and I only trained crystals for stuff like scordite in highsec, so no.

The easy, no brainer way to do this is to simply mine a complete cargohold full of the stuff, and mouse over it to see how much you could sell it for. Oh, the price may be 700-1000 ISK vs. 35 ISK for Scordite (numbers out of my ass). But the mouseover tells the story, as you can only sell the entire load for the same or less as the Scordite you used to mine in highsec.

ok I can see what your saying however, I need to point out one thing for you, using that mouse over to get a idea of price range is a bad idea since every region is different and its best to work it out from the markets selling cost if you don't want to refine it and sell the minerals yourself later when your skills are good for refining.

The point is, the amount of volume per unit of ore is huge with the nullsec stuff. So you check the prices at market and think your getting rich. But that doesn't factor in volume per unit of ore. When you factor that volume in, you aren't making jack crap.

It would also help if the main source of ores in 0.0 (mining anomalies) didn't have a lower per-m^3 ore value than hi-sec belts.

Add low-end minerals to Spodumain, several problems mitigated at once.

It would also help if the main source of ores in 0.0 (mining anomalies) didn't have a lower per-m^3 ore value than hi-sec belts.

Add low-end minerals to Spodumain, several problems mitigated at once.

This is the usual problem of risk vs reward. The problem is not that specifically nullsec ores are not worth it, but that mining in nullsec as a whole is not worth it, unless you are in a coalition with extremely powerful intel and security (and that makes mining almost as safe as in highsec, except the fact that you can AFK in highsec while you can't do it in null).

In my opinion the biggest problem regarding mining and the balance highsec/nullsec is the total lack of sense in mining low end ores in 0.0 thanks to mineral compression. Mineral compression should be removed in favour of a mechanic that allows people to mine safely lowend ores in 0.0 (safely almost as in highsec, I mean). I don't care if I can mine in nullsec with the same level of income but the same level of safety as highsec.

It would make sense that the risk you have were bound to the activity you are doing (and therefore to your income) and not only to the security level of space you are in. The whole idea of PVPers protecting miners is nice in theory but unfortunately impractical in reality.
There is a lot of low-isk-per-hour stuff that could be done locally in 0.0 but it's "delocalized" in highsec because it is less risky there, all for the sake of the false assumption "0.0 must be dangerous for everybody everywhere".

Yup. Rebalance spodumain to have a decent return for the refinable volume. I would add 200 zydrine and 300 nocxium myself and simultaneously rebalance nocxium by replacing the 11 nocx per refine batch in Pyrox with about 500 pyerite.

But let's see what the EVE Economy sessions today and Resource Rebalancing session tomorrow have in store for us.

No. Apparently, people mine mercoxit well enough to devalue it.

Althought its also found in WH and else where, people in null sec seem to make more than enough of it to sell it to hi-sec to make it less profitable than mining hi-sec ores.

I suppose if you got everyone outside of hi-sec to stop mining it, then the price would go back up, but I doubt you would ever get that to happen.

ABC ores aren't as profitable because null sec has become so safe. It's simply in high supply at the moment. Bring back conflict and profits will go up.

I don't think that bringing trit/pyer/etc to null sec is a good idea. It would flat out make null sec better for mining in all respects and it would reduce high sec mining to horrible levels of revenue. Given the large amount of players that actively engage in mining as one of the few available high sec social activities, this would be a bad move. Social activities are entertaining and keep people playing. If folks start making half as much ISK during those activities, then they will look for alternatives -- solo missions. For most people, solo play would quickly end in an unsubscribed account.

Reducing the m3 of the ABC ores is also against design philosophy of null sec and would simply lower its price even further. High end materials require jump freighters instead of Itty Vs to be profitable, giving a purpose to these expensive ships, as well as forcing group activity for logistical purposes. This would also simply increase the supply, which would drive the price even lower. Given that the high end ores probably (not an industrialist) make up a tiny amount of the material associated with ships, you might even end up with an oversupply, meaning less revenue per hour.

EDIT: spelling

ABC ores aren't as profitable because null sec has become so safe. It's simply in high supply at the moment. Bring back conflict and profits will go up.

Given the large amount of players that actively engage in mining as one of the few available high sec social activities, this would be a bad move.

ABC ores aren't as profitable because null sec has become so safe. It's simply in high supply at the moment. Bring back conflict and profits will go up.

ABC ores aren't as profitable because null sec has become so safe. It's simply in high supply at the moment. Bring back conflict and profits will go up.

I don't know what you folks see, and would be interested in hearing it. But I can tell you that I haven't seen a single miner, or mining operation, in my area since moving to nullsec. Not even a single lone miner.

Anyone know why the volume per unit is so huge for these nullsec ores?

turns out most bots are miners, who would have guessed (everyone)

I'm probably totally off, since I don't do industry, but I thought the major advantage of "null ores" was that once refined, the minerals were worth way more per m3, making transport easier and more profitable.

yeah they're worth more isk/m3 when refined, but you don't mine refined minerals. so that isk/m3 ratio is completely irrelevant, really.

Irrelevant to the miner, yes. But not the guy moving his minerals to Jita to sell.

also it's just irrelevant to any one, the hauler is only interested in the total value and the total m3, not the ratio of isk to m3.

That's the same thing...

no, nullsec ores not being worth it is the problem. look at spod and gneiss.

it makes perfect sense to mine low end ores in 0.0, because they're still worth more than spod and gneiss. the issue is that veld, pyrox, and plagi simply do not exist in large grav sites. there isn't any to mine, even if you want to.

i honestly don't think you grasp the nature of the problem.

You're right, a hauler is much better off making 30 jumps with an Itty full of Trit than an Itty full of Megacyte...

So tell me why would you mine scordite in 0.0 when you can mine it in highsec, in complete safety, with 50% base refining value, and make the same amount of money.

Moreover there's no need to mine lowend in 0.0, thanks to mineral compression.

If I mine in 0.0, I go for arkonor or for other lowsec ores, otherwise it's not worth the effort.

Lowend ores are anyway present in normal belts and roids can be considerably bigger than highsec ones, so I think it's you that don't know what are you talking about.

if he's building something with trit, rather than megacyte, then yes he is.

Who said anything about building anything?

why would i mine scordite in 0.0? for the same reason i mine the 2m isk/jetcan ores in 0.0. to flip the grav site.

considering you just displayed no idea how a null sec grav site works, it's hypocritical of you to tell any one they don't know what they're talking about. if you did know what you were talking about, you wouldn't have asked me why i would mine scordite in 0.0.

Grav sites should flip automatically in 3 days. If they don't, it's a bug.

Still, I would only mine low ends in 0.0 if I could do it in the same safety conditions of nullsec and in my opinion correcting the safety problem is the way to correct the problem, instead of adding more value to pseudo-highend ores, for politcal and gameplay reasons.

Most people don't know how nullsec mining works.

They just mentioned on fanfest that thy are changing ores next expansion.

[quote=Camios]
do you really not understand how mining in null sec works?

This wasn't directed at me, but I for one will raise my hand and say 'I really do not understand how mining in null sec works.' Would anyone like to explain it to me?

Also, why do null-sec'ers bother with grav sites? What kind of ore will be in the grav site that isn't floating around in the null sec belts?