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DarthNefarius Minmatar Heavy Industries 936	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:37:00 - [1] - Quote to wormholes? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
ElQuirko Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT 1266	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:42:00 - [2] - Quote Oculus VR + stargates = leeroy mode active Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 1446	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:43:00 - [3] - Quote I'd say new systems, so EVE can grow indefinitely. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008.
Lin Gi'Do Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension 2	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:43:00 - [4] - Quote or jove space, or back to Earth? Who knows.
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 255	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:43:00 - [5] - Quote Coming 20never. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 925	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:48:00 - [6] - Quote this op is awesome... so much content... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Anslo The Scope Gallente Federation 1442	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:48:00 - [7] - Quote I was wondering why CCP Facebook was blowing up with comments. The demo showed gate construction? What else? -\_For the Proveldtariat_/-
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 224	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:49:00 - [8] - Quote Hmm, new probe system, looks like it has been dumbed down to me.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4726	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:50:00 - [9] - Quote Gate construction was just shown as a possible thing for the future. It won't be part of Odyssey. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13836	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:51:00 - [10] - Quote Lin Gi'Do wrote: or jove space, or back to Earth? Who knows. Jove space sounds more liklely, since they've said that they're going to open up that part of space. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Nex Killer Drunk3n Warfare 11	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:53:00 - [11] - Quote Anslo wrote: I was wondering why CCP Facebook was blowing up with comments. The demo showed gate construction? What else? They didn't show anything it was just something for the future.
Karsa Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:54:00 - [12] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Hmm, new probe system, looks like it has been dumbed down to me. The ability to start you 7 probes at once and store probe patterns isn't dumbing it down. It is just getting rid of annoying UI-restrictions/"gamplay".
Anslo The Scope Gallente Federation 1442	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:54:00 - [13] - Quote Tippia wrote: Lin Gi'Do wrote: or jove space, or back to Earth? Who knows. Jove space sounds more liklely, since they've said that they're going to open up that part of space. Wait really? Was that recent at fanfest or some god awful long time ago? -\_For the Proveldtariat_/-
DarthNefarius Minmatar Heavy Industries 936	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:55:00 - [14] - Quote Tippia wrote: Lin Gi'Do wrote: or jove space, or back to Earth? Who knows. Jove space sounds more liklely, since they've said that they're going to open up that part of space. Will we have to WH to there like Sansha did? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Jeidan Fallstaff Nyota Heavy Industries 0	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:58:00 - [15] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Hmm, new probe system, looks like it has been dumbed down to me. Looks like some great changes to me. Formation and multiple probe deployment, better scanning result display. All things that weren't cleverer, just repetetive in the current system. Plus, the revamp centers more on the system scanner, showing these new sigs and sites. Changes to archeology and hacking sites are much better IMO - greater benefits for group expeditions (more ejected loot collected... tangent how soon till this beocmes known as ejaculoot?) (I'm coining it right now) Way better than click drag click drag click drag click drag click drag click drag click drag click drag warp approach (maybe shooty shooty) target turn on salvager.... zzzzz edit forgot to say, it seems to me that system scanning still works like now - you can detect certain anomolies, but you'll still need to use probes and scanning for the juicier anomolies and sites What if your sole reason for being is simply to serve as a warning to others?
Arcosian Arco's Advanced Industries 61	Posted - 2013.04.26 18:58:00 - [16] - Quote My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it?
Pak Narhoo Splinter Foundation 935	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:01:00 - [17] - Quote Arcosian wrote: My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it? Of course if you build the gate you also are the sole key keeper.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13837	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:01:00 - [18] - Quote Anslo wrote: Tippia wrote: Lin Gi'Do wrote: or jove space, or back to Earth? Who knows. Jove space sounds more liklely, since they've said that they're going to open up that part of space. Wait really? Was that recent at fanfest or some god awful long time ago? It was some magazine interview IIRC. Also, the interesting part isn't stargate construction GÇö it's what's required to make it a valuable addition: stargate destruction. If all you can do is build new ones, it'll be a one-time thingGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Throktar Deep Core Mining Inc. 10	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:02:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Seagull said that the gate building would be in the winter expansion as part of the space colonization expansion. It will be very interesting how that will work out. I really love the new stargate and stations animations. I find it really adds a lot to the immersion of the game.
Makoto Priano Priano Trans-Stellar State Services 295	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:02:00 - [20] - Quote Arcosian; my guess is that if you build it, you can control who passes through-- though I assume there's also a possibility to hack 'em? Or depending on expense (it could be relatively cheaper to build, but need constant fueling), break blockades by building smuggler gates...?
Lin Gi'Do Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension 2	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:02:00 - [21] - Quote Arcosian wrote: My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it? So you are allowed to use every Jumpbridge system in null then? That must be so awesome.
Tank Talbot Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:03:00 - [22] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Hmm, new probe system, looks like it has been dumbed down to me. I thought the same. Especially with the new site naming conventions. The probe formations and multi-launch option though are something that was needed. The new hacking GÇ£mini-gameGÇ¥ left me puzzled because it didnGÇÖt look like the DEV hurricane was mounting hacking modules. It could have just been a lousy stream for me though. I am wondering if skills and modules will change with this or how they will interact? Seems off for EVE though. Mini-games are for STO... ;) Ice in anomalies? No more interdictions and profiteering? Andi presented a big dream but I was left confused by the actual point. So player groups can build star gates. Colonization? I couldnGÇÖt tell if she was implying high sec was about to bite the dust or if new player empires were in the making? As wasted as some stretches of space seem now I donGÇÖt know but if we can build em I hope we can blow them up.
Arcosian Arco's Advanced Industries 61	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:05:00 - [23] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: Arcosian; my guess is that if you build it, you can control who passes through-- though I assume there's also a possibility to hack 'em? Or depending on expense (it could be relatively cheaper to build, but need constant fueling), break blockades by building smuggler gates...? That's a possibility but assuming the major power blocs build them (who else would) they could essentially lock down an entire region and be in complete safety. Seems like that would just stagnate null more than it already is.
Arcosian Arco's Advanced Industries 61	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:07:00 - [24] - Quote Lin Gi'Do wrote: Arcosian wrote: My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it? So you are allowed to use every Jumpbridge system in null then? That must be so awesome. Of course not but there is a big difference between stargates and JBs. Locking stargates would effectively cut an entire system off from the outside world. That is unless they plan to make stargates more like titan bridges.
Heinel Coventina University of Caille Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:08:00 - [25] - Quote Karsa Egivand wrote: Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Hmm, new probe system, looks like it has been dumbed down to me. The ability to start you 7 probes at once and store probe patterns isn't dumbing it down. It is just getting rid of annoying UI-restrictions/"gamplay". OMG really? Saving probe patterns? Best News EVER!!
Throktar Deep Core Mining Inc. 10	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:11:00 - [26] - Quote Heinel Coventina wrote: Karsa Egivand wrote: Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Hmm, new probe system, looks like it has been dumbed down to me. The ability to start you 7 probes at once and store probe patterns isn't dumbing it down. It is just getting rid of annoying UI-restrictions/"gamplay". OMG really? Saving probe patterns? Best News EVER!! Pre-set saved probe patterns. They also launch 7 probes at a time now. I wonder how fast you will be able to be probed down now.
Trendon Evenstar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 164	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:25:00 - [27] - Quote Arcosian wrote: My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it? It would have to lead to great rewards and only be accessible by the alliance, who would have the resources to do such a thing?
Arcosian Arco's Advanced Industries 61	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:37:00 - [28] - Quote Trendon Evenstar wrote: Arcosian wrote: My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it? It would have to lead to great rewards and only be accessible by the alliance, who would have the resources to do such a thing? That's kinda my point. If any alliance is able to construct the first stargates and get a foot hold into jove space it would be almost impossible to take it from them with gates being inaccessible to everyone else. I'm just guessing here but it seems like the only way in would be destroying the gate and building a new one which one can only guess how long and expensive a process that would be or hacking(?) the gate with the new code-breaker system. Assuming one can hack the gate it would only buy a few mins(?) before a fleet could move through so at best it would just slow them down a bit.
Rebecha Pucontis Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 225	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:40:00 - [29] - Quote Throktar wrote: Pre-set saved probe patterns. They also launch 7 probes at a time now. I wonder how fast you will be able to be probed down now. This is what concern me too. How easy will it be too scan down other pilots with combat probes now. Usually you get a little time as you can hit dscan and see the probes being deployed before the scanner takes them off scan range and tries to flash you with them. I forsee this could cause a lot of issues. Also preset probe formations is nice, but if you can only launch 7 probes now, what about people who have 8 probe formation currently? I know this doesn't affect many people, but will those who do use 8 probe setups be able to get formations also? Otherwise what is the point in astro V and getting the extra probe.
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 1109	Posted - 2013.04.26 19:42:00 - [30] - Quote Mate thats FUTURE TM
Octoven Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming 78	Posted - 2013.04.26 20:05:00 - [31] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Hmm, new probe system, looks like it has been dumbed down to me. As a vet player you WOULD say that. Compared to the original probe system, the current one is dumbed down too. At the end of the day it comes down to ease of use. Id rather have the new system and spend less time scanning, which equals more profit then to keep the current one which, yes is more complex, but time consuming as well. The other side of this is ensuring you dont need lvl 4 skills in scanning just to find something inside 5 minutes. This will definitely help newer players who need tutorials and still training time to utilize the archaic scanning system that hasnt changed since 2009. As CCP mentioned multiple times at fanfest, they want to make game play more intuitive and less like work. We players play the game to enjoy it, not have a literal second job. 80% of new player scanning time is consumed in just setting up the damn probes. As for the stargates....not sure how that will work out tbh. I doubt they will ever connect to w-space. It is possible they may allow connections to jove and colonize it; however, the bigger question is how to get there? Right now if you want to get to another system you use a stargate or a wh, short of them introducing wh in jove or wh in a new cluster....you cant really get the materials to the new system to build a gate.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 3288	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:52:00 - [32] - Quote Tippia wrote: Also, the interesting part isn't stargate construction GÇö it's what's required to make it a valuable addition: stargate destruction. ^this Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Vertisce Soritenshi Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 2135	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:58:00 - [33] - Quote Tippia wrote: Lin Gi'Do wrote: or jove space, or back to Earth? Who knows. Jove space sounds more liklely, since they've said that they're going to open up that part of space. I think it would be rather anti-climactic and a waste of resources if it was just Jove space. Jove space isn't all that big. It's one more region. If they are going to put all the effort in to make this awesome new feature of making stargates, which will likely have limited ranges, which would make them only useable by a small portion of EVE if allowed only to connect to Jove space, then it would just be a waste. My guess would be a large number of new systems placed into the game that can only be accessed by the players building gates and making their own paths through the new universe of systems. These will obviously be 0.0 additions. Maybe the counterpart to the new WH additions. Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Muscaat EVE Markets 40	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:14:00 - [34] - Quote Tank Talbot wrote: The new hacking GÇ£mini-gameGÇ¥ left me puzzled because it didnGÇÖt look like the DEV hurricane was mounting hacking modules. It could have just been a lousy stream for me though. Soundwave did heavily caveat that part of the demo with "it won't look like this", and there were plenty of dev hacks involved too, so I wouldn't put too much weight on exactly what was shown there.
Solaris Ecladia High Flyers Unclaimed. 58	Posted - 2013.04.27 01:13:00 - [35] - Quote Arcosian wrote: Trendon Evenstar wrote: Arcosian wrote: My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it? It would have to lead to great rewards and only be accessible by the alliance, who would have the resources to do such a thing? That's kinda my point. If any alliance is able to construct the first stargates and get a foot hold into jove space it would be almost impossible to take it from them with gates being inaccessible to everyone else. I'm just guessing here but it seems like the only way in would be destroying the gate and building a new one which one can only guess how long and expensive a process that would be or hacking(?) the gate with the new code-breaker system. Assuming one can hack the gate it would only buy a few mins(?) before a fleet could move through so at best it would just slow them down a bit. because absolutly no systems anywhere have more than 1 gate right?
Sethose Olderon Honourable Company of Gentlemen 19	Posted - 2013.04.27 09:14:00 - [36] - Quote Arcosian wrote: My question is assuming stargates are going to make titans look like a cheap frig in terms of cost why would any alliance want to foot the bill so everyone else can use it? Perhaps if the owner(s) were to allow others usage, you could charge fees for the privilege, which could equate to a large chunk of change. Especially so if the stargate was in a system on a trade route, or just simply a popular system. It could even be possible to charge an exorbitant amount as a disincentive, but still catch the occasional idiot, or border-line alcoholic. In the end it's a good idea, it's gives players more things to build and destroy. Less NPC, more Player Freedom. "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 465	Posted - 2013.04.27 09:20:00 - [37] - Quote Seagull invited the audience to dream. And "Colonisation" was one possible theme for the future. I'd say that it's a better dream than playing with barbies, but still a dream. What was interesting in Seagull's "look to the future" was that while sticking to 6 month expansions, they also keep longer targets. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 231	Posted - 2013.04.27 09:34:00 - [38] - Quote Which panel was this? For those of us who have been working this weekend and don't have the HD live stream 24/7.
Mara Tessidar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 853	Posted - 2013.04.27 09:35:00 - [39] - Quote Tippia wrote: Also, the interesting part isn't stargate construction GÇö it's what's required to make it a valuable addition: stargate destruction. If all you can do is build new ones, it'll be a one-time thingGÇª x for outpost destruction Reading the EVEO forums is like huffing gas or sniffing glue. Sure it's funny and you get high, but you pay a terrible, terrible price in the long run.
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 465	Posted - 2013.04.27 09:39:00 - [40] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Which panel was this? For those of us who have been working this weekend and don't have the HD live stream 24/7. EvE past, present and future. The "Colonisation" part is as can be guessed at the end of it ... CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 232	Posted - 2013.04.27 09:45:00 - [41] - Quote Lors Dornick wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Which panel was this? For those of us who have been working this weekend and don't have the HD live stream 24/7. EvE past, present and future. The "Colonisation" part is as can be guessed at the end of it ... I don't see it on the Twitch TV list, was it in the last 24 hours?
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 465	Posted - 2013.04.27 10:10:00 - [42] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Lors Dornick wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Which panel was this? For those of us who have been working this weekend and don't have the HD live stream 24/7. EvE past, present and future. The "Colonisation" part is as can be guessed at the end of it ... I don't see it on the Twitch TV list, was it in the last 24 hours? http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/c/2208288 Around 1:25 ish, Seagull/Andie dreams of the future. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
Steve Spooner Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two 47	Posted - 2013.04.27 11:05:00 - [43] - Quote No more pestering titan pilots for bridges? :3
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4739	Posted - 2013.04.27 11:05:00 - [44] - Quote Steve Spooner wrote: No more pestering titan pilots for bridges? :3 I'm sure there will still be plenty of that. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix.
Alyxportur The Inf1dels Insidious Empire 3	Posted - 2013.06.15 17:50:00 - [45] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: I'd say new systems, so EVE can grow indefinitely. Allowing stargate foundations to be anchored on wormholes (only ones with WH space C1 to C5, not the direct WHs) and then the necessary 'upgrades' dumped in (like what you do for a nullsec outpost) before downtime = creating new space. Of course, whenever a wormhole is 'taken out of commission' like that, it would be replaced by an identical one. So.... anyone with poses anchored in the previous wormhole would now live in the same nullsec region as the alliance who founded the stargate..... That would necessitate the creation of some sort of anti-foundry things that people could anchor in wormholes (similar to TCUs) so that unless those AFTs are absent or killed, the wormhole can't be founded into a stargate.
Lugia3 Pirates Incorporated 423	Posted - 2013.06.15 17:58:00 - [46] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: I'd say new systems, so EVE can grow indefinitely. I think you're on to something... Yarr
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4270	Posted - 2013.06.15 18:38:00 - [47] - Quote Lugia3 wrote: Abrazzar wrote: I'd say new systems, so EVE can grow indefinitely. I think you're on to something... But then every Tom, ****, and Harry would be able to create their own system if they aren't careful. I really don't want to stumble across a Star Gate that leads to "Bobs Hole". To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Allus Nova Blitzkrieg. Insidious Empire 9	Posted - 2013.06.15 19:10:00 - [48] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: to wormholes? to Jove space? to new systems? to Earth in the EVEGATE?!?!?!?! I would love to see WH space be made into normal space though construction of a stargate on either ends of the WH. Material costs could be HUGE (say 2x station cost perhaps?) and it would cost on both sides of the gate, but it would allow for an infinitely expanding Eve area...it would be epic. Have the sleepers just move, or make them even lower trusec systems with sleeper rats and sites. Would love to see some -1.1 to -1.9 systems. Make PvE Fleet warfare relevant beyond incursions.
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 2499	Posted - 2013.06.15 20:27:00 - [49] - Quote ...sure stargate construction. Why not. Just like 7 years ago when they said we'd be walking in stations someday. SoonGäó (GÇó_GÇó) ( GÇó_GÇó)>GîÉGûá-Gûá (GîÉGûá_Gûá)
Messoroz AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 393	Posted - 2013.06.15 20:47:00 - [50] - Quote Allus Nova wrote: DarthNefarius wrote: to wormholes? to Jove space? to new systems? to Earth in the EVEGATE?!?!?!?! I would love to see WH space be made into normal space though construction of a stargate on either ends of the WH. Material costs could be HUGE (say 2x station cost perhaps?) and it would cost on both sides of the gate, but it would allow for an infinitely expanding Eve area...it would be epic. Have the sleepers just move, or make them even lower trusec systems with sleeper rats and sites. Would love to see some -1.1 to -1.9 systems. Make PvE Fleet warfare relevant beyond incursions. Hell no, get away from my wspace. Create new regions for the stargate construction yes. It can easily be spun as "new regions" have been found and the empires are set to expand.
Lugia3 Pirates Incorporated 423	Posted - 2013.06.15 20:51:00 - [51] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Lugia3 wrote: Abrazzar wrote: I'd say new systems, so EVE can grow indefinitely. I think you're on to something... But then every Tom, **, and Harry would be able to create their own system if they aren't careful. I really don't want to stumble across a Star Gate that leads to "Bobs Hole". Stargates could take a massive amount of materials to construct, around on par with a station. Additionally, it could lead to a randomly generated system that is pre-named by CCP's old system naming algorithm. With such a large cost, it could be somewhat of a big event when a new system is opened. Regions/constelations would be formed by an algorithm speading out from a new system. Lets just hope that someday someone will open a gate to "Jita-Jita Prime" Yarr**
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 1634	Posted - 2013.06.15 20:54:00 - [52] - Quote Glad this content rich thread was necro'd. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Erotica 1 Krypteia Operations 477	Posted - 2013.06.15 21:00:00 - [53] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: to wormholes? to Jove space? to new systems? to Earth in the EVEGATE?!?!?!?! And after the jump to Earth.... The New Eden Ambassador, Savior of Highsec, James 315 meets with the Earth Ambassador from Star Trek Online, ConstantineGrey aka desmonpark, to iron out the gate travel arrangements between our galaxies. ConstantineGrey was last seen on May 13th appearing in a Miner Bumping article, vowing never to return to New Eden. How will the negotiations fair? To be continued... See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did.

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