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What is up with the hacking changes?

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Judge Magister Zeiram EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:25:00 - [1] - Quote Is the intent of the new hacking system to take a dump on exploration? Magnetometric sites are mostly useless salvage. The same junk you can get from any wreck. Gravimetric sites are useless to anyone, but miners. And even then, since they have no non-high sec ores they aren't particularly any better than standard belts. In fact, given the fact that you'd have to spend time to find them it is financially more prudent to just mine belts in terms of time vs. gain. Wormholes are useless to anyone uninterested in wormhole space development, ladar or who aren't highly skilled players in extremely powerful ships seeing as anything worthwhile is guarded by Sleeper armadas. Ladar is low sec/null exclusive and represents the only instance where scanning is crucial to mining. But again, they are useless to anyone who isn't a miner. Any ladar miner is capable of scanning down sites themselves so selling coordinates doesn't work in practice. Radar sites are the ONLY profitable sites available to "pure" explorers. That is, people who explore for profit only and not as a means to some other end. It can be used to invention, but a non-inventors can make decent ISK selling manifestos and the like. I've been playing for a little over a month. As an example, a few days ago I was exploring. I found a radar site in the first system I went to. I acquired 20 million in goods, which is above average. I normally find 8-10 mil per site. The next 13 systems I visited over the next few hours had a variety of useless signatures, mostly those god awful wormholes. So now, with the changes in Odyssey, when I finally find that rare radar site I lose most of the goods. And you say I should bring a friend in order to get the most stuff??? 1. ARE RADAR SITES GOING TO BE MORE PLENTIFUL? 2. IS THE AMOUNT CONTENTS OF HACKED CONTAINERS GOING TO INCREASE? 3. WILL WORMHOLES BE INSTANTLY IDENTIFIED AS SUCH SO PEOPLE CAN IGNORE THEM RIGHT OF THE BAT? What "friend" is going to want to tag along as I scan down useless crap signatures for hours? And when I finally do find a radar site after spending all this time doing ALL the work I'm supposed to share what may be my only source of income with someone else? Am I missing something?
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 4905	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:30:00 - [2] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Gravimetric sites are useless to anyone, but miners. And even then, since they have no non-high sec ores they aren't particularly any better than standard belts. You don't really know a thing. Especially about Exploration. At all. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 4905	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:34:00 - [3] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: I Ladar is low sec/null exclusive And again. I guess the cloud I grabbed last week was just imaginary. Lime Mykoserocin now selling in Rens. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde
Sarmatiko 1056	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:35:00 - [4] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Am I missing something? Yes. You are in University, so go educate yourself on the matter. EVE Splash Ads Archive
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 16	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:48:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Magnetometric sites are mostly useless salvage. The same junk you can get from any wreck. Wrong. Mag sites are one of the major sources for T2 loot. Quote: Gravimetric sites are useless to anyone, but miners. And even then, since they have no non-high sec ores they aren't particularly any better than standard belts. Wrong. Grav sites can contain any ore. Quote: Wormholes are useless to anyone uninterested in wormhole space development, ladar or who aren't highly skilled players in extremely powerful ships seeing as anything worthwhile is guarded by Sleeper armadas. Wrong. C1s and C2s are not very difficult and can easily be soloed by a 6 month old player. Quote: Ladar is low sec/null exclusive and represents the only instance where scanning is crucial to mining. But again, they are useless to anyone who isn't a miner. Any ladar miner is capable of scanning down sites themselves so selling coordinates doesn't work in practice. Wrong. The combat ladar sites don't need any harvesting. 4 out of 5 wrong, you should attend more courses about exploring at E-Uni. Quote: So now, with the changes in Odyssey, when I finally find that rare radar site I lose most of the goods. And you say I should bring a friend in order to get the most stuff??? This is a MMORPG. As in Massively Multiplayer Online RPG. Income in Eve should follow the Risk/Reward scheme, higher risk should result in a higher reward. Go to low or nullsec, the payout from the sites there is much higher and you have less competition.
Michael Stabb School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:50:00 - [6] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: In fact, given the fact that you'd have to spend time to find them it is financially more prudent to just mine belts in terms of time vs. gain. I'd like to nitpick this point. The new gravimetric sites can be found with the onboard scanner, it takes literally no skill at all (in game skill or player skill) to find them. An infant could do it.
Judge Magister Zeiram EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:55:00 - [7] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: You don't really know a thing. Especially about Exploration. At all. I don't know a thing about grav sites, you mean? I have never found a single grav site with anything remarkable. So please, enlighten me. Making empty statements serves no purpose. If you're not going to tell me "what I'm missing", as I requested, why bother to reply at all? Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: I Ladar is low sec/null exclusive And again. I guess the cloud I grabbed last week was just imaginary. Lime Mykoserocin now selling in Rens. I've never seen a ladar in high sec and during the career missions it was stated that they were extremely rare outside of low/null because the empires exhausted them. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's mining all the same. Sarmatiko wrote: Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Am I missing something? Yes. You are in University, so go educate yourself on the matter. Relic/data objects (aka Magnetometric/Radar) will spew cans with totally random stuff (including extremely rare and desirable new decryptors). I really dont know how adding something new and valuable (also guaranteed instead of "oh meh, just cleaned Radar site full of NPC's and all cans are empty") can hurt your income. Also you will have less signatures to scan, since Gravimetric (now Ore) sites moving to Anomalies level. The point is I don't know. Are they promising increased amounts of the current stuff? Or larger numbers of inferior goods with a few good things thrown in if you just so happen to pick them out of the bunch by chance? I have never found a radar site with nothing. In every case there were four containers; 2 had goods and 2 were either empty or dysfunctional by design.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 1470	Posted - 2013.04.27 19:59:00 - [8] - Quote Hedbergite and Haemorphite sites in high-sec will be very sought after soon with the expansion. You guess why! Sovereignty and Population Moulds and water for the sandbox.
Jantunen the Infernal O C C U P Y 107	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:00:00 - [9] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Magnetometric sites are mostly useless salvage. The same junk you can get from any wreck. Nope, Magnetometrics are actually quite profitable in lower sec areas. Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Gravimetric sites are useless to anyone, but miners. And even then, since they have no non-high sec ores they aren't particularly any better than standard belts. In fact, given the fact that you'd have to spend time to find them it is financially more prudent to just mine belts in terms of time vs. gain. Nope, gravimetrics are worth mining. (if you're one of those dirty no good miners that is) Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Wormholes are useless to anyone uninterested in wormhole space development, ladar or who aren't highly skilled players in extremely powerful ships seeing as anything worthwhile is guarded by Sleeper armadas. Nope, you can pretty comfortably daytrip to and do lower class WHs even in cheaper ships. Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Ladar is low sec/null exclusive and represents the only instance where scanning is crucial to mining. But again, they are useless to anyone who isn't a miner. Any ladar miner is capable of scanning down sites themselves so selling coordinates doesn't work in practice. Nope, Ladars can be profitable and there are also some people who buy bookmarks for them. Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Radar sites are the ONLY profitable sites available to "pure" explorers. That is, people who explore for profit only and not as a means to some other end. It can be used to invention, but a non-inventors can make decent ISK selling manifestos and the like. Nope, as mentioned the other sites are quite good as well. "I've been playing for a little over a month." Yeah.
Khamelean Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:01:00 - [10] - Quote OP logic followed to conclusion: Eve is useless to everyone except people who like spaceship games!
silens vesica Corsair Cartel 1468	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:04:00 - [11] - Quote Y'all missed the point. Clearly the OP's point is: "EVE is Dying(tm)." Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Octoven Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming 85	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:06:00 - [12] - Quote A. There are other sites to scan besides grav, mag, and radar...you can do tons of deadspace sites that ARNT being affected with the change and you may even find a 4/10 and get a pretty valuable drop. B. You have no clue how scanning is laid out, you have Anomalies and Signatures.. Anoms you can use a scanner with no probes to warp to at 100% signal and signatures must be scanned down with probes. Although grav sites are being taken out of the sig category and placed in anomalies...wormholes will stay in signatures and still require probes. As CCP Soundwave said, exploring right now consist of scanning down a site, grabbing your combat ship, shooting and blowing ** up, then grabbing your scan ship again and sit at a can and run a module to pick up you would get in a mission anyway...this isnt exploring. Exploration requires mystery, the unknown, and not being able to look on a wiki to see what prize you get before you even warp to the damn site. I like the new hacking system, it provide randomly spread cans with random unknown ** in them that you take a chance to get when you grab them. If you don't like this then you dont like exploring because the essence of exploration is finding the unknown.
Judge Magister Zeiram EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:09:00 - [13] - Quote Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it.
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 17	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:14:00 - [14] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. You come here, 1 month in the game, and act like you know all about exploration, claiming all sites besides Radar aren't worth doing. What did you expect? You are in a teaching organisation in-game for f*cks sake, they have classes about this stuff, a forum and a wiki. Use the resources given to you, there are no NPCs with big yellow exclamation marks here to tell you what to do.
silens vesica Corsair Cartel 1469	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:14:00 - [15] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. Which what makes it so fun. Angry folks are amusing. Now, can I sneer at you some more? Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 4908	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:15:00 - [16] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. No. You are too new to be posting opinions about 'facts' when you don't even know the half of it yet. You will be called out so other new players know not to pay attention to the wrong information. It's for their benefit......and yours. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde
silens vesica Corsair Cartel 1470	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:17:00 - [17] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. No. You are too new to be posting opinions about 'facts' when you don't even know the half of it yet. You will be called out so other new players know not to pay attention to the wrong information. It's for their benefit......and yours. Spare the rod and spoil the n00b. Biblical. I like it. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Judge Magister Zeiram EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.04.27 20:55:00 - [18] - Quote Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. You come here, 1 month in the game, and act like you know all about exploration, claiming all sites besides Radar aren't worth doing. What did you expect? You are in a teaching organisation in-game for fcks sake, they have classes about this stuff, a forum and a wiki. Use the resources given to you, there are no NPCs with big yellow exclamation marks here to tell you what to do. Someone posted something you disagree with. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river. How is that a valid reason to be disrespectful and condescending? I have no interest in mining nor do I have any interest in being easy picking for players who higher skills. All sites besides radar are indeed worthless from my perspective. I understand you disagree due to your own particular play style, likes/dislikes, etc., but you can't honestly think anyone who thinks differently than you is worthy of scorn and contempt for no other reason than that they don't share your perspective. I think there are over the counter medication for Pointless Nerd Rage Syndrome. Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:* Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. No. You are too new to be posting opinions about 'facts' when you don't even know the half of it yet. You will be called out so other new players know not to pay attention to the wrong information. It's for their benefit......and yours. The "facts" bit is something you added as nothing I don't recall stating anything I posted was a manual. However, it is all very much true from my perspective in regards to my immediate interests. It's not a matter of anyone disagreeing with or correcting someone. That's all fine and dandy. It's the irrational anger that some people have. You don't find it at all strange for a person to actually get angry at another person's perceived ignorance regarding a video game? A video game. That's kind of immature, don't you think? Or at least indicative of some unresolved psychological issue(s).
Drunken Bum 141	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:07:00 - [19] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. You come here, 1 month in the game, and act like you know all about exploration, claiming all sites besides Radar aren't worth doing. What did you expect? You are in a teaching organisation in-game for fcks sake, they have classes about this stuff, a forum and a wiki. Use the resources given to you, there are no NPCs with big yellow exclamation marks here to tell you what to do. Someone posted something you disagree with. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river. How is that a valid reason to be disrespectful and condescending? I have no interest in mining nor do I have any interest in being easy picking for players who higher skills. All sites besides radar are indeed worthless from my perspective. I understand you disagree due to your own particular play style, likes/dislikes, etc., but you can't honestly think anyone who thinks differently than you is worthy of scorn and contempt for no other reason than that they don't share your perspective. I think there are over the counter medication for Pointless Nerd Rage Syndrome. Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:* Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Spare me the condescending attitudes. Never seen a forum of people so angry for no other reason than anger it. No. You are too new to be posting opinions about 'facts' when you don't even know the half of it yet. You will be called out so other new players know not to pay attention to the wrong information. It's for their benefit......and yours. The "facts" bit is something you added as nothing I don't recall stating anything I posted was a manual. However, it is all very much true from my perspective in regards to my immediate interests. It's not a matter of anyone disagreeing with or correcting someone. That's all fine and dandy. It's the irrational anger that some people have. You don't find it at all strange for a person to actually get angry at another person's perceived ignorance regarding a video game? A video game. That's kind of immature, don't you think? Or at least indicative of some unresolved psychological issue(s). No need to get your panties in a bunch because you were wrong and it was pointed out. Most people dont take too kindly to listen to others whine, especially when the whiners barely know what they're talking about. Spare some change?-á
Onyx Nyx Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse 348	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:09:00 - [20] - Quote It is pretty funny that a EVE Uni guy actually is crying over something considered as an improvement to a cumbersome system that makes probing, hacking and salvage more interesting for anyone, new as old, to use. All but poor Judge Magister Zeiram... Boo-hoo! I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 21	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:27:00 - [21] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Someone posted something you disagree with. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river. Not so much that I disagree with it, your facts were simply wrong. Quote: I have no interest in mining nor do I have any interest in being easy picking for players who higher skills. All sites besides radar are indeed worthless from my perspective. I understand you disagree due to your own particular play style, likes/dislikes, etc., but you can't honestly think anyone who thinks differently than you is worthy of scorn and contempt for no other reason than that they don't share your perspective. I think there are over the counter medication for Pointless Nerd Rage Syndrome. In your OP you make claims that are wrong. You get told that you are wrong, by more than one person. You then proceed to insult these people. I can already see that you are a valuable and worthy addition to any corporation and wish you a bright future in Eve Online.
Judge Magister Zeiram EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:30:00 - [22] - Quote Drunken Bum wrote: No need to get your panties in a bunch because you were wrong and it was pointed out. Most people dont take too kindly to listen to others whine, especially when the whiners barely know what they're talking about. You're the ones whining. I'm not the one behaving disrespectfully and making condescending remarks because someone posted something I didn't agree with about a video game, of all things. Certain people (I assume you are one) are angry (for no reason) and you are trying to deflect. What message were you trying to convey in your post? "I know you are, but what am I"?
Judge Magister Zeiram EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:32:00 - [23] - Quote Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: In your OP you make claims that are wrong. You get told that you are wrong, by more than one person. You then proceed to insult these people. I can already see that you are a valuable and worthy addition to any corporation and wish you a bright future in Eve Online. Please quote the insults I've spewed toward "these people".
silens vesica Corsair Cartel 1476	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:32:00 - [24] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Drunken Bum wrote: No need to get your panties in a bunch because you were wrong and it was pointed out. Most people dont take too kindly to listen to others whine, especially when the whiners barely know what they're talking about. You're the ones whining. I'm not the one behaving disrespectfully and making condescending remarks because someone posted something I didn't agree with about a video game, of all things. Certain people (I assume you are one) are angry (for no reason) and you are trying to deflect. What message were you trying to convey in your post? "I know you are, but what am I"? Oh, this guy is going to be FUN. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Sipphakta en Gravonere 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 21	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:38:00 - [25] - Quote Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Please quote the insults I've spewed toward "these people". Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: ...people so angry... ...Boo-hoo. Cry me a river... ...Pointless Nerd Rage Syndrome... ...irrational anger that some people have... ...kind of immature... ...unresolved psychological issue(s)...
Uraniae Fehrnah Viziam Amarr Empire 219	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:42:00 - [26] - Quote Mag sites, even in high sec present a nice concentration of salvage, and yes even in high sec they can give you T2 salvage. The high end sites in high sec are easily worth the time, and that value only goes up as you go to low sec and 0.0. Of course being part of exploration it also currently can be very random and potentially have cruddy payouts. Grav sites provide not only for allowing low sec ores in high sec, but also for allowing you to find ores that aren't present in certain racial regions. Likewise low sec grav sites can have 0.0 ores. Wormholes don't just lead to Anoikis. Wormholes that cut across to the other side of the galaxy can be rather lucrative in and of themselves for providing trade opportunities as well as allow you, the explorer, to explore a whole other region you might not explore otherwise. I can't tell you how many times I used a wormhole in high sec to pop into areas of low sec or 0.0 for a day of exploring in those areas. Ladar sites are indeed extremely rare in high sec and ladars in known space are used for booster production. That can be an amazingly profitable business if you know what you are doing. Sure, it's "just another kind of mining" but if you want to get technical so are missions. Some people pop asteroids, some people pop gas clouds, some people pop red crosses, and some people pop other people. All are valid pursuits regardless of if anyone else doesn't like them. Radar sites can be some of the most profitable sites out there for their relative time and manpower investments, and while I'm not 100% on the upcoming changes with Odyssey if the change of making sure each can has loot in it guaranteed is true, then that is something to be happy about. Very few things in EVE are worse than empty cans. You didn't even touch on anomalies or combat signatures, which are perfectly valid and profitable options for explorers as well. As a month old player you most likely aren't going to be able to do a 4/10 complex on your own, plain and simple. But the potential rewards are nice enough that working with a friend is still profitable, and once again that all scales up as you get into low sec and 0.0. Now then, if you are going to call someone out on being rude and condescending to you because you think differently than they do, it seems pretty obvious that you should be able to look back at your original post and see that your statements of worth regarding various activities and sites are exactly the sort of thing you are decrying. Calling certain activities worthless can reasonably lead to the assumption that you also think the people that do those activities are stupid. Doesn't matter if you intended that or not, if they thought you were being rude and condescending in your original post that sort of validates a rude response. Of course, the whole idea that there are ever "valid reasons" to be disrespectful is sketchy from the get go. If there are valid reasons for it...it isn't really disrespectful, it's just the appropriate response. I get that you don't want to mine or you don't want to pop into wormholes or scoop up salvage or run combat sites. But just think about how much you are hemming yourself in by limiting yourself to such a tiny window of activities. By just doing radar sites you are literally doing only 1/5th of Exploration and arguably only even bothering to compete for 1/5th of the potential ISK from Exploration. Keep in mind that Hacking is considered a mini-profession that is part of the wider profession of Exploration.
Din Chao Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 220	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:45:00 - [27] - Quote Recruiting standards for E-Uni have really become lax in Kelduum's absence...
Kalanaja Dog Nation United ProtoStar Federation 37	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:56:00 - [28] - Quote Din Chao wrote: Recruiting standards for E-Uni have really become lax in Kelduum's absence... That's an understatement, it all most seems like he's learned nothing at all about the game. I'm surprised he's even capable of scanning anything period.
Ruskarn Andedare Lion Investments 151	Posted - 2013.04.27 21:57:00 - [29] - Quote silens vesica wrote: Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Drunken Bum wrote: No need to get your panties in a bunch because you were wrong and it was pointed out. Most people dont take too kindly to listen to others whine, especially when the whiners barely know what they're talking about. You're the ones whining. I'm not the one behaving disrespectfully and making condescending remarks because someone posted something I didn't agree with about a video game, of all things. Certain people (I assume you are one) are angry (for no reason) and you are trying to deflect. What message were you trying to convey in your post? "I know you are, but what am I"? Oh, this guy is going to be FUN. Can we keep him and cuddle him and make him learn stuff?
silens vesica Corsair Cartel 1480	Posted - 2013.04.27 22:01:00 - [30] - Quote Ruskarn Andedare wrote: silens vesica wrote: Judge Magister Zeiram wrote: Drunken Bum wrote: No need to get your panties in a bunch because you were wrong and it was pointed out. Most people dont take too kindly to listen to others whine, especially when the whiners barely know what they're talking about. You're the ones whining. I'm not the one behaving disrespectfully and making condescending remarks because someone posted something I didn't agree with about a video game, of all things. Certain people (I assume you are one) are angry (for no reason) and you are trying to deflect. What message were you trying to convey in your post? "I know you are, but what am I"? Oh, this guy is going to be FUN. Can we keep him and cuddle him and make him learn stuff? We'll call him George, and hug him and squeeze him and never let him go. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

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