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Igor Slovensky get outa dodge corp 0	Posted - 2013.04.28 01:07:00 - [1] - Quote The latest proposed industry changes in the new expansion appear once more to try and encourage a greater player presence in low and null sec areas of the eve universe. That will not happen, not now, not ever. The reason should be obvious, it is not in the nature of a high sec player to even consider low or null sec as a viable opportunity. Nor is it in the nature of a low or null sec pvp player to suddenly want to become an industrialist. As CCP continues to make high sec less profitable and less attractive to players, it will never have the desired effect of forcing players to low and null sec , but it may have the effect of having players vote with their credit cards by finding another game that suits their playing style and nature. One thing I have long admired about the eve universe is that it has always attempted to maintain a balance for all types of playing styles, including a place for solo players and small industrial corporation players in high sec space. After reading the developer blogs on the new expansion I get the feeling that this desire to maintain balance has come to an end. One area that has come under attack is ice mining. Listed below are some excerpts from CCP FozzieGÇÖs developer blog. ( link: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-shakeup-blog/ ) GÇ£By CCP Fozzie At our current numbers, the maximum supply of ice from highsec (assuming that each belt is mined out completely five times a day) would provide approximately 80% of the game's ice needs, ensuring that at least some of the ice mining must be undertaken in lower security space. Combined, these changes are designed to make ice harvesting a valuable activity that players will engage in both cooperative and competitive gameplay to benefit from. We at CCP want ice harvesting to be a lucrative activity that encourages players to relocate and compete for a piece of the pie. GÇ£ Clearly CCP is out to discourage solo play and encourage players to move to either move to null and low sec, or work with combat groups while mining with these changes. Unfortunately, just as the many attempts before it this one is doomed to failure also. I fear the only result this will have is driving up the costs of POS fuels and result in the shut down of small corporation high sec POSGÇÖs. What the players in those corporations will do once the life blood of their corporation is off- lined is unknown, but rushing off to null sec will NOT be one of the options they will even consider. It is past time for CCP to understand that those wishing to be in null and low sec are already there, and nothing can be done to force those not wishing to be there to change their minds. Flame on GÇªGÇªGÇª.
Haulie Berry 519	Posted - 2013.04.28 01:14:00 - [2] - Quote CCP: Hey guys, we're going to make ice scarcer, which will make ice mining more valuable. Standard issue mining moron: Y U HATE HI SEC?
Isonda suspended animations DOT None Of The Above 3	Posted - 2013.04.28 01:55:00 - [3] - Quote OP: can I have your stuff since you are leaving?
Warriors Fury Fury and Love 0	Posted - 2013.04.28 02:14:00 - [4] - Quote I personally think that the changes they are making in the coming patch is great . Eve was always meant to be a game where the end content is in 0.0 . As it is ,I believe there is too many people living a safe life in empire anyway. I think that the changes thy are making are the right changes not to "force", People out of empire , but by adjusting the mineral contents and station slots of outposts it really opens up the bottleneck that has held back major industry in 0.0 . This means a lot to me since I have recently started a new corporation (prior to learning of the changes ) aimed at massive 0.0 industrialism , I am a huge fan of the changes to the game . You can of course continue carebearing in empire if you want to , that of course is your freedom of choice within the wonderful world of eve . But I for one absolutely love the changes they are making , and the awesome 0.0 oppurtunities that it will open up for my corporation , and my future alliance and 0.0 industrialism .
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance 909	Posted - 2013.04.28 02:35:00 - [5] - Quote Most people that don't like the new patch haven't ever really experienced industry in nullsec. The patch will be good for the game and make null more bearable for industrialists. The only thing I don't like is the new scanner that will allow quick scanning of grav sites. That's not really ok with me. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
DeLindsay Galaxies Fall 35	Posted - 2013.04.28 02:42:00 - [6] - Quote Like it or not, the OP isn't wrong. CCP is, at least in some way, forcing/encouraging players to move from their carebear lives in Highsec with an attempt to populate Low/Null with this change. They already "tried" it with DeD 1/2's and it negatively effected Faction Warfare, exactly like players said it would. Incursions are not solo'able in any way. Although this adds a great dynamic "group" content, there are MANY subs that just want to play in the Eve sandbox as if it's their own personal empire building game, and are happy to do so, unless they can no longer be happy doing so. I could care less what CCP changes as I will adapt. If they remove X from the area I call my home, then I will just go play with Y. Since there are so many things to do in Eve it makes it easy for an older toon like myself to just go on a different path for a while. The newer players (1-3 yrs) that are skewed to a specific play style will feel jaded and could possible un-sub which is the last thing any company wants. Of course you can think of it this way. With less carebears in Highsec, who will gankers have to prey on? There is a HUGE "industry" in Highsec pirating that also could be negatively effected by the change, or any change that tries to move more of the player base into Low/Null. Check out my post about some Drone lovin: Proposed Drone Improvement
Haulie Berry 520	Posted - 2013.04.28 02:49:00 - [7] - Quote Zifrian wrote: Most people that don't like the new patch haven't ever really experienced industry in nullsec. The patch will be good for the game and make null more bearable for industrialists. The only thing I don't like is the new scanner that will allow quick scanning of grav sites. That's not really ok with me. Dude. That's the very best part.
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance 909	Posted - 2013.04.28 03:15:00 - [8] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Zifrian wrote: Most people that don't like the new patch haven't ever really experienced industry in nullsec. The patch will be good for the game and make null more bearable for industrialists. The only thing I don't like is the new scanner that will allow quick scanning of grav sites. That's not really ok with me. Dude. That's the very best part. If they did something about 23/7 cloak camping sure. But I don't like the fact you can train up some newbie with a cyno and easily warp to grav sites with just the ship scanner to hot drop me. Right now you need to scan down the belt, giving a bit of breathing room. We'll see I guess. Maybe it won't be as big as an issue as I think. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
zaminia Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.04.28 03:21:00 - [9] - Quote Zifrian wrote: The only thing I don't like is the new scanner that will allow quick scanning of grav sites. That's not really ok with me. I have to agree. Many players have actually spent time training scanning skills to get an 'edge' when scanning down grav sites and the like. It appears that time was wasted as the new patch has nerfed scanning.
Eric Raeder No Fee Too High 29	Posted - 2013.04.28 03:32:00 - [10] - Quote Some ice mining will probably move from high to null or possibly even low, but it is not at all clear the price of ice products will go up. Ice miner cycle times are being cut in half, which means once an ice field is found the ice can be gathered a lot more quickly. It's quite possible ice prices will drop in the long run.
Haulie Berry 520	Posted - 2013.04.28 03:35:00 - [11] - Quote zaminia wrote: Zifrian wrote: The only thing I don't like is the new scanner that will allow quick scanning of grav sites. That's not really ok with me. I have to agree. Many players have actually spent time training scanning skills to get an 'edge' when scanning down grav sites and the like. It appears that time was wasted as the new patch has nerfed scanning. ....nerfed scanning? The mere thought of never getting a sig to 25% just to find out it was a gravimetric makes me want to go spend some alone time with a high-res picture of Soundwave and a bottle of Jergens.
Haulie Berry 520	Posted - 2013.04.28 03:40:00 - [12] - Quote Eric Raeder wrote: Some ice mining will probably move from high to null or possibly even low, but it is not at all clear the price of ice products will go up. Ice miner cycle times are being cut in half, which means once an ice field is found the ice can be gathered a lot more quickly. It's quite possible ice prices will drop in the long run. This would only be true if, once an ice field is found, it wouldn't run out of ice. They've made it very clear that the new ice belts will run out of ice. Doesn't matter how fast you can harvest it, the supply is going from an effectively infinite amount (four belts - one of each - could supply the entire ice-product needs of the game right now) to less. Without a massive uptake of low/null WH mining or a massive drop off in consumption, the price is going up (at least from, say, the pre-speculation price of two weeks ago).
Fhaerbaline Khent University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.04.28 03:49:00 - [13] - Quote I think CCP went about it pretty wisely. Excellent boost to Low / 0.0 way of life without shaking up highsec too much. With regards to the Ice-Babies crying frozen tears......You have 'till early June to hustle static ice....Better get moving.
Arcturus Trask Vindicator Corporation Strategic Alliance 205	Posted - 2013.04.28 05:20:00 - [14] - Quote There are many positive aspects to the new changes. Any negatives for me are about the unknown effects. I am old and at times do not like change. I can't count the number of times that I got pissed over some change that ended up being actually rather cool in the long run. Things that will be interesting for me... The time for endless ice mining has come at last. Except for AFK/Bot miners, this should not be too much of a problem. It is my hope that when a new Ice Field spawns that my Alliance fleet of miners can not kill it in 15 minutes. I hope that a bunch of us can kill it in 3 to 4 hours then D-Scan the next location. Twice the ice and half the time. We would not have to mine ice that often to keep our POS towers up. As for high Sec Gankers, I do not see any reason for them to change. The extra 4 seconds it will take to find an ice belt over knowing where the static belt was should not slow them down. Tank up your miners as much as you can, watch local for sudden jumps in populations or Destroyer fleets and it is business as usual. When in doubt about local activity, warp out... I am miffed about all the time I have spent in training my scanning to the max just so I can scan down a Gravimetric site in less than a minute. I just wish they added a new type of signature that I could look for with my kick ass scanning skillz. Now a 1 day wonder can press the scan button and jump to the Ice Field? sigh In that I feel cheated. :) As to adding additional Trit and Pyrite to the low/nul sec ores will sure help us mine and build without the need for High Sec trips. The more you can do behind your Blue wall the better. But prices will fall? Remember when you could buy a Rhea for about 2 Billion ISK? That was only a few years ago. Now they are over 7 billion. But prices will go up? Something's will go up and down for a while until we re-develop a stable economy. It will be interesting to see how that works out. Forcing people to move to low and null.... Yes, I do see this as another CCP push to make low and null more profitable to work in. People who wish to stay in High Sec will just have to adapt to the changes and develop a support group of like minded Corps to help protect each other. I am not saying they need to make an Alliance which a lot of them wish to avoid, but develop relationships to help support each others efforts. Those brave souls who have never stepped into low and null should try to find a stable Alliance in low and or null and change your way of game play to match those you wish to join. Take only what you need to low and null to get started. Ask the Alliance which PVP ships they recommend and the proper fittings and join in the PVP when required. The rest of the time do what you always do... Mine away, watch local, set up a proper D-Scan and keep a constant eye out. When in doubt, warp out. CCP will be successful in moving some more players to Low and Null with this patch. There will be player who will stay in HS no matter what and adapt. I am sure there will be a lot of rage quits which will last from a few days to a few weeks before they re-sub. (EVE = Addiction) I bet that will be some who will rage quit and never come back. EvE was not in their blood I guess. There have been more interesting patches, but I do not see my fleet in Jita blasting any Monuments over this... I am honestly looking forward to the first month after the patch. There will be adjustment.... there are always adjustments. Fly safe my friends. It is going to be an interesting summer. -Arc CEO VIndicator Corp
DeLindsay Galaxies Fall 35	Posted - 2013.04.28 05:41:00 - [15] - Quote I just thought of a LOL side effect to the new Ice anoms. They will be a ganker paradise as most will be fitting their Macks for max yield (min tank) to race and get as much out of the 'belt' as possible before it's depleted. I can hear the screams now as so many carebears nerd rage in local and flame on the forums that CCP is being unfair to miners :P Quote: I am miffed about all the time I have spent in training my scanning to the max just so I can scan down a Gravimetric site in less than a minute. I just wish they added a new type of signature that I could look for with my kick ass scanning skillz. Now a 1 day wonder can press the scan button and jump to the Ice Field? sigh In that I feel cheated. :) Agreed brother. Also it will make those slightly better 'hidden' belts in Highsec (which have slightly better ore types) pointless as anyone can find them after the change. Check out my post about some Drone lovin: Proposed Drone Improvement
Carina Lynn Titanic Solutions Strategic Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.04.28 05:48:00 - [16] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: ....nerfed scanning? The mere thought of never getting a sig to 25% just to find out it was a gravimetric makes me want to go spend some alone time with a high-res picture of Soundwave and a bottle of Jergens. Oh hun! I loved that one!!! Serious case of the giggles. Here is the Pic... I am off to Jita to buy some lube. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-u6iJTzeyPSk/TuvJppGEnBI/AAAAAAAAAbs/9vcgrN_azwg/s200/ccp_soundwave.jpg
Skorpynekomimi 499	Posted - 2013.04.28 07:51:00 - [17] - Quote Rabble rabble rabble. It's not forcing people to populate low and null. You can still ore mine just as well, there'll just be less market for nullsec types coming to get their trit. This could collapse the 425mm railgun market, but not too much else. Ice? It's still there. Just gotta look for it, and GET UP EARLY TO FIND IT. Shocking. Don't want to time it? Go mine it in lowsec. ****
Beckie DeLey Hyperfleet Industries xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 449	Posted - 2013.04.28 08:03:00 - [18] - Quote Ice prices on the rise; ice miners furious. I would like to remind you that littering is a crime punishable with death, and that disagreeing with me will be considered verbal littering.
Dave Stark 2919	Posted - 2013.04.28 08:13:00 - [19] - Quote Igor Slovensky wrote: Clearly CCP is out to discourage solo play and encourage players to move to either move to null and low sec, or work with combat groups while mining with these changes. Unfortunately, just as the many attempts before it this one is doomed to failure also. I fear the only result this will have is driving up the costs of POS fuels and result in the shut down of small corporation high sec POSGÇÖs. What the players in those corporations will do once the life blood of their corporation is off- lined is unknown, but rushing off to null sec will NOT be one of the options they will even consider. It is past time for CCP to understand that those wishing to be in null and low sec are already there, and nothing can be done to force those not wishing to be there to change their minds. Flame on GÇªGÇªGÇª. you don't have to move to null or low. there's no reason to work with combat groups mining with these changes. are you completely stupid or just trolling? i hope you're trolling because my faith in humanity is already stretched pretty thin
xPredat0rz Grey Templars Fidelas Constans 24	Posted - 2013.04.28 08:23:00 - [20] - Quote You dont have to move out here to make isk. Hell I know more then a few null sec miners that plex 20 accounts mining in null. It is possible to make a metric ** ton of isk doing it. Then again generally before you start you need to scan down wormhole exits in system and bubble the out of them or crash them and ** cage the gates...Even then its not perfectly safe. On the same token you can mine in high sec, in "safe systems" and die to the thrashers and catylsts for less isk/hour. I could say the same when it comes to missions vs Anomolies and DED sites for isk/hour. No one is making you go anywhere. They are just rewarding those that step outside of the safety box with more ways to make isk.
Oliver G G Enterprises 0	Posted - 2013.04.28 08:58:00 - [21] - Quote I totally agree with the OP. CCP has made many attempts to populate low/null. All the people who want to be there are already there. I also see the problem that the upcomming changes do not leave room for small high sec corporations to run a POS. Limiting the ICE supply is ok, but I think they overdid it. I just checked: Khanid Kingdom will not have asingle ICE anomaly in the whole region (!). This is not limiting the ICE supply, this is completely removing the ICE supply. Why? Does CCP really want to ban POSes from high-sec in Khanid?
xPredat0rz Grey Templars Fidelas Constans 24	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:06:00 - [22] - Quote Amarr has the largest stretch of space. Khanid Kingdom is also amarr. You will have Ice within 5 jumps of the Khanid Region Moutid in Tash Murkon Kothe in Kador Its not like it wont be availible. More then half of Khanid is low sec. So do some ninja low sec ops if you have to Quote: Ice HarvestingAs mentioned in the main blog, we are planning to make significant changes to ice harvesting, moving supply from static belts into respawning anomalies, as well as doubling the speed of ice harvesters to increase yield over time. Most systems that currently have ice belts will contain these new ice anomalies, with the notable exception of many systems in Amarrian, Khanid, and Ammatar high security space. Below I will list all the systems in high security space that will contain spawns of Clear Icicle. Afivad, Agal, Avada, Bashakru, Chanoun, Dantan, Dihra, Erkinen, Esteban, Gamis, Gelhan, Gosalav, Jarzalad, Jerma, Kothe, Manatirid, Miah, Moutid, Ordion, Raravoss, Riavayed, Seil, Talidal, Warouh. These will be the only high security systems that will contain Clear Icicle. All low-security and null-security systems that currently contain static ice belts, as well as all high security systems in Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar space that contain static ice belts, will contain the new ice anomalies.
Dave Stark 2919	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:08:00 - [23] - Quote Oliver G wrote: All the people who want to be there are already there. incorrect. i want to be in null, however i make more isk in high sec so i am there. there's no incentive for me to go in to null, currently.
Zappity Kurved Space 42	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:14:00 - [24] - Quote Suck it up, OP. I don't think CCP is daft enough to think that someone like you will go to low or null. After all, they are truly scary places. Maybe they think the high sec alts of null and low players will go there for industry. That would be a good enough start. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Oliver G G Enterprises 0	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:14:00 - [25] - Quote OK, so tons of ice available in low sec. Will it make me go to low? No. Why? Too much trouble. EVE is supposed to be a game. Nowe everytime I need ice for the POS it becomes a damn project to get it. I do not want to waste 3 hours in a row to grab ICE. So it is as the OP says, some people will adapt in high-sec. I am one of them. Quote: incorrect. i want to be in null, however i make more isk in high sec so i am there. there's no incentive for me to go in to null, currently. And do you have the feeling that this is about to change?
Kado Nolens 2Fux Consortium 0	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:17:00 - [26] - Quote I like all the changes except that Grav sites are now found by using the ship scanner the same as Anom's.... Seems very one sided and might as well go back to just hitting belts instead..... as anoms are the first to get hit in a small system...
Dave Stark 2919	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:17:00 - [27] - Quote Oliver G wrote: OK, so tons of ice available in low sec. Will it make me go to low? No. Why? Too much trouble. EVE is supposed to be a game. Nowe everytime I need ice for the POS it becomes a damn project to get it. I do not want to waste 3 hours in a row to grab ICE. So it is as the OP says, some people will adapt in high-sec. I am one of them. Quote: incorrect. i want to be in null, however i make more isk in high sec so i am there. there's no incentive for me to go in to null, currently. And do you have the feeling that this is about to change? yes. you will make more isk mining in null than you will in high sec after odyssey.
Dave Stark 2919	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:19:00 - [28] - Quote Kado Nolens wrote: I like all the changes except that Grav sites are now found by using the ship scanner the same as Anom's.... Seems very one sided and might as well go back to just hitting belts instead..... as anoms are the first to get hit in a small system... it's even worse for wormholes. you won't know some one is near you until they appear on grid. no local, no probes on dscan, just an uncloaking arazu pointing you. wormhole miners do have my sympathy, but looking at the graphs nobody mines in wormholes anyway.
Zappity Kurved Space 42	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:48:00 - [29] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Oliver G wrote: OK, so tons of ice available in low sec. Will it make me go to low? No. Why? Too much trouble. EVE is supposed to be a game. Nowe everytime I need ice for the POS it becomes a damn project to get it. I do not want to waste 3 hours in a row to grab ICE. So it is as the OP says, some people will adapt in high-sec. I am one of them. Quote: incorrect. i want to be in null, however i make more isk in high sec so i am there. there's no incentive for me to go in to null, currently. And do you have the feeling that this is about to change? yes. you will make more isk mining in null than you will in high sec after odyssey. And with the outpost changes you even have some chance of doing something useful with the minerals. Nowhere near far enough yet but in the right direction. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Dave Stark 2919	Posted - 2013.04.28 09:52:00 - [30] - Quote Zappity wrote: And with the outpost changes you even have some chance of doing something useful with the minerals. Nowhere near far enough yet but in the right direction. indeed, there will be a local market for the minerals. you'll still be sending a portion of them to jita, unless other people like importing 425mm railguns... still, it'll be better than the system we have now.

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