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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:36:00 -
[1]
Ditch implants? im not talking about hardwireings, im talking about the ones that effect training time.
Maybe bring out an Adv learning skill instead?
Im suggesting this because after haveing looked at the map, and seeing loads and loads of people in empire, and little yellow dots scattered around in 0.0, i feel this is the only thing holding some of the community back, if the only loss would be money, (instead of loseing training time, as they try to get the expensive implants back)
I know this is part of the risk Vs reward thingy, but some people dont want to lose training time, but if the only loss is money, then we could see a wave of rich kamikazzie corps/loners who invade 0.0 and just plain go CrAzY!11
And i think that is the only thing holding them back, the implants, then when they get podded, killed loads of times, they can limp back to empire to get more money, and will be more careful next time, before chargeing back into 0.0
This is just an idea, to get more people into 0.0, if you have any other ideas, please tell
No flames please, if you dissagree state why, and remember, manners/politeness cost nothing.
cheers.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:43:00 -
[2]
There ARE advanced learning skills...
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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:44:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Winterblink
There ARE advanced learning skills...
Yes, but i said an Adv learning Skill (note no "s")
As in learning? the skill learning?
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:48:00 -
[4]
Implants do not limit PvP.
Tech II prices do not limit PvP.
Lack of Tech II insurance does not limit PvP.
Some people get overly attached to a bunch of pixels, and start to give more value to the tools themselves than the job they are intended for.
______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Branco
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Branco on 28/09/2005 13:50:42
Originally by: The trademan
I know this is part of the risk Vs reward thingy, but some people dont want to lose training time, but if the only loss is money, then we could see a wave of rich kamikazzie corps/loners who invade 0.0 and just plain go CrAzY!11
Then buy a set of implants like the ones you have on and have them at the same station as you have your clone. That way when you get podded you automatically plug the implants back and don't lose any training time, just the money to buy the implants.
Oh wait... maybe implants have nothing to do with people not PvPing 
Recruiting. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:50:00 -
[6]
Then again, Avon, the time spent to acquire those pixels does excuse some attachment to them 
[23]
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:50:00 -
[7]
Whatever. I highly doubt implants are holding people back from 0.0, in fact there's nothing holding people back from going into 0.0.
And if you get blown up and podded you lose your clone (or SPs if you're cloneless), so money's again an issue for even the implant-less.
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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Avon
Implants do not limit PvP.
Those that want to improve charecter training times will not want to lose implants, and thus, not risk pvp.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: The trademan
Those that want to improve charecter training times will not want to lose implants, and thus, not risk pvp.
And how is that the implant's fault?
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Discorporation
Then again, Avon, the time spent to acquire those pixels does excuse some attachment to them
Well, everyone loves your pixels Disco, but there is no point teasing ourselves.
______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Winterblink
Whatever. I highly doubt implants are holding people back from 0.0, in fact there's nothing holding people back from going into 0.0.
And if you get blown up and podded you lose your clone (or SPs if you're cloneless), so money's again an issue for even the implant-less.
Money can be made back, training time through lose of implants cannot.
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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: The trademan
Those that want to improve charecter training times will not want to lose implants, and thus, not risk pvp.
And how is that the implant's fault?
Because you lose training time through loss of implants.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: The trademan
Originally by: Winterblink
Whatever. I highly doubt implants are holding people back from 0.0, in fact there's nothing holding people back from going into 0.0.
And if you get blown up and podded you lose your clone (or SPs if you're cloneless), so money's again an issue for even the implant-less.
Money can be made back, training time through lose of implants cannot.
You don't lose any training time at all.
So long as you put new implants in before you start a new skill, nothing is lost.
______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: The trademan
Money can be made back, training time through lose of implants cannot.
Investments in a second set of implants (money made) can help alleviate the perceived loss in training times when you lose an implant (which incidentally does not occur immediately as skills keep training as if you still had the implants, provided you do not switch skills).
Also Avon; <3
[23]
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Wrench Head
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:57:00 -
[15]
From my experience, implants are just one of the reasons for not going to 0.0, but not the biggest one.
The fear of expensive ship and T2 equipment loss and difficulty organizing groups to accompany yourself to 0.0 is probably a bigger issue. In addition, finding equipment and skills and fellow corp mates in 0.0 at various times of the day is another reason people stay in Empire.
In fact, only the most expensive implants are more costly than the average BS.
So I dont believe getting rid of implants will solve this problem.
I believe to be successfull in 0.0, you need good Corp support who are willing to travel in a group to 0.0. Those corps who are primarily based in 0.0 are at advantage because they know the area, have BMs and friends and alliances to help them.
It is the ganking of individual ships trying to travel to 0.0 that scares away the average person. But if that same person travelled in a well armed group, I dont believe having implants would prevent them from making the trip. And the isk made mining in 0.0 would easily cover the risks.
For those corps who are new to 0.0, they could hire Mercs to escort them and/or join an alliance in 0.0. There are many tools available that mitigate the fear of losing implants.
And I believe that more people who travel into 0.0, the better for EVE and the poor stressed out empire server nodes.
Cheers,
"If it aint broke, I cant fix it" |
The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Branco
Edited by: Branco on 28/09/2005 13:50:42
Originally by: The trademan
I know this is part of the risk Vs reward thingy, but some people dont want to lose training time, but if the only loss is money, then we could see a wave of rich kamikazzie corps/loners who invade 0.0 and just plain go CrAzY!11
Then buy a set of implants like the ones you have on and have them at the same station as you have your clone. That way when you get podded you automatically plug the implants back and don't lose any training time, just the money to buy the implants.
Oh wait... maybe implants have nothing to do with people not PvPing
When people want to improve their charecter asap, (sonme find the times too long, but will wait it out) they want to make it go as fast as possible, so they stick some +4's in, and sit in empire.
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit btw, best start training politeness lvl 1.
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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: The trademan
Originally by: Winterblink
Whatever. I highly doubt implants are holding people back from 0.0, in fact there's nothing holding people back from going into 0.0.
And if you get blown up and podded you lose your clone (or SPs if you're cloneless), so money's again an issue for even the implant-less.
Money can be made back, training time through lose of implants cannot.
You don't lose any training time at all.
So long as you put new implants in before you start a new skill, nothing is lost.
I have heard that was a bug, and that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesnt.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: The trademan
Originally by: Avon
You don't lose any training time at all.
So long as you put new implants in before you start a new skill, nothing is lost.
I have heard that was a bug, and that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesnt.
Well, you heard wrong.
If the basis of your arguement are things that you 'heard' it may be wise to check the facts before spouting in public.
Just a thought.
______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The trademan
When people want to improve their charecter asap, (sonme find the times too long, but will wait it out) they want to make it go as fast as possible, so they stick some +4's in, and sit in empire.
Those people should realize EVE is not a game that caters to powerleveling. And implants only boost your attributes by a few points, it's not like they apply training speed x 5 modifiers.
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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: The trademan
Money can be made back, training time through lose of implants cannot.
Investments in a second set of implants (money made) can help alleviate the perceived loss in training times when you lose an implant (which incidentally does not occur immediately as skills keep training as if you still had the implants, provided you do not switch skills).
Also Avon; <3
Agreed, but what if you get podded alot? the cost of those +4 implants will soon rack up, and sooner or later, you will end up with no implants, but the training time that you lose while you have no implants would not be gotten back, and i think that the fear of their charecter development being slowed down bugs people in a weird sort of way.
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Rider Zane
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:04:00 -
[21]
I disagree.
implants dont need to be got rid off, they just need to be made a npc sold commodity for a price that encourages everyone to go into 0.0 and shoot stuff.
i'll even go one better, only +1 or +2 implants should be sold by NPC markets on the fringe of 0.0, anything higher should only comes from mission agents and remain at insane pricex of those supplying.
there would be a huge increase in pvp fun and 0.0 activity if people did not loose 160 million worth of implants in a 3 minute fight.
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Branco
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: The trademan
When people want to improve their charecter asap, (sonme find the times too long, but will wait it out) they want to make it go as fast as possible, so they stick some +4's in, and sit in empire.
That is their fault, not implants. I just demonstrated to you that implants are ISK, they have nothing to do with training time as long as you can afford a spare.
So your problem has nothing to do with training times, it has to do that you can't afford to live without your precious implants but still can't afford a spare set, or in other words you're complaining about the usual "PvP in EVE is too costly".
So I was only beeing sarcastic as you either did not understand your post or you did not understand the way EVE works. Hope I helped clearing any doubts off your mind.
Recruiting. |
The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rider Zane
I disagree.
implants dont need to be got rid off, they just need to be made a npc sold commodity for a price that encourages everyone to go into 0.0 and shoot stuff.
i'll even go one better, only +1 or +2 implants should be sold by NPC markets on the fringe of 0.0, anything higher should only comes from mission agents and remain at insane pricex of those supplying.
there would be a huge increase in pvp fun and 0.0 activity if people did not loose 160 million worth of implants in a 3 minute fight.
Good idea
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: The trademan
The powerleveling is not an issue when everyone lvls at the same pace (if everyone does learning up to 5, adv to 4, etc) then its not powerlevling is it?
and those few points drop days of high lvl skills.
Which isn't actually a whole lot when you think of it. Well it is if someone plans to only play the game for a month or two, but those people are crazy. :)
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: The trademan
But it will not cost you training time.
You seem to be focusing on two subjects here, training time and money (based on your original post and subsequent comments). If both aren't relevant to the discussion, then what's your focus here?
Assuming you're focusing on the lost training time, all the loss of implants does is return you to the base level of training. That doesn't put you at a disadvantage with the majority of the population of EVE, who mostly don't roll with full sets of +3 or +4 implants.
And you're not losing training time, you're losing the training time reduction.
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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Branco
Originally by: The trademan
When people want to improve their charecter asap, (sonme find the times too long, but will wait it out) they want to make it go as fast as possible, so they stick some +4's in, and sit in empire.
That is their fault, not implants. I just demonstrated to you that implants are ISK, they have nothing to do with training time as long as you can afford a spare.
So your problem has nothing to do with training times, it has to do that you can't afford to live without your precious implants but still can't afford a spare set, or in other words you're complaining about the usual "PvP in EVE is too costly".
So I was only beeing sarcastic as you either did not understand your post or you did not understand the way EVE works. Hope I helped clearing any doubts off your mind.
By getting rid of implants, the rich people can afford to run back into 0.0, even those that are poor, but dont go into pvp because they want to speed up the learning process would go into 0.0 because their would be not charecter training time loss.
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The trademan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: The trademan
The powerleveling is not an issue when everyone lvls at the same pace (if everyone does learning up to 5, adv to 4, etc) then its not powerlevling is it?
and those few points drop days of high lvl skills.
Which isn't actually a whole lot when you think of it. Well it is if someone plans to only play the game for a month or two, but those people are crazy. :)
I would like to see 1/2months olds taking on other people in frigs in 0.0, without haveing to worry on optimizing their charecter, and haveing to wait longer to be able to do more things.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: The trademan
By getting rid of implants, the rich people can afford to run back into 0.0, even those that are poor, but dont go into pvp because they want to speed up the learning process would go into 0.0 because their would be not charecter training time loss.
Here's a thought. If this is a rich vs poor discussion too, then the poor folk can stick it to the rich by going to 0.0 to pvp, so they can kill off the rich folk and force them to buy new implants and clones. A good balance, don't you think? :)
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:19:00 -
[29]
The tradesman:
Explain to me why there are some people in 0.0?
Do they have no implants, and are therefor gimping themselves?
Or they do have implants and 0.0 isn't really dangerous?
Or, they do have implants and can afford to replace them because you can make buckets full of ISK in 0.0?
______________________________________________
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: The trademan
I would like to see 1/2months olds taking on other people in frigs in 0.0, without haveing to worry on optimizing their charecter, and haveing to wait longer to be able to do more things.
There's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that, after all player skill >> skill points.
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