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Clone Costs

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James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4782	Posted - 2013.04.28 23:56:00 - [31] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Cryten Jones wrote: Hi Eve, Any chance of having the costs of clones in EvE lowered? I have to say that the costs of replacing my clone is becoming more and more a barrier for fast and dirty PVP rather than the ship loss. I would even raise the question as to do we even need to have a cost to them? Thoughts / Ideas / flames ? -CJ james from razor came up with the idea that you insure for an amount of time for a set amount of isk... that way you can loose your pod an infinate amount of times and not loose any sp... but you have to renew your insurance after it runs out... Actually it wasn't my idea. Unfortunately I don't remember whose it was. But I still think it's a good idea, mainly because it equalizes the isk sink across the entire playerbase and so might actually increase the overall sink due to the volume of players that never lose clones.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 941	Posted - 2013.04.28 23:59:00 - [32] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: MeBiatch wrote: Cryten Jones wrote: Hi Eve, Any chance of having the costs of clones in EvE lowered? I have to say that the costs of replacing my clone is becoming more and more a barrier for fast and dirty PVP rather than the ship loss. I would even raise the question as to do we even need to have a cost to them? Thoughts / Ideas / flames ? -CJ james from razor came up with the idea that you insure for an amount of time for a set amount of isk... that way you can loose your pod an infinate amount of times and not loose any sp... but you have to renew your insurance after it runs out... Actually it wasn't my idea. Unfortunately I don't remember whose it was. But I still think it's a good idea, mainly because it equalizes the isk sink across the entire playerbase and so might actually increase the overall sink due to the volume of players that never lose clones. well i remember you being the most vocal about it so you can have the honour Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Mara Tessidar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 856	Posted - 2013.04.29 00:17:00 - [33] - Quote Clone pricing sucks. Reading the EVEO forums is like huffing gas or sniffing glue. Sure it's funny and you get high, but you pay a terrible, terrible price in the long run.
Danu Charante Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2013.04.29 00:19:00 - [34] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Look at all these highsec players who think their opinion on clone costs is worth something. If you seriously think that having SP loss every time you lose your clone regardless of what you do is a good thing, you're definitely free to try it out yourself (by which I mean PVP in nullsec for a month without ever upgrading your clone) and judge if this enriches your game experience or not. Everybody knows you won't, so your opinion is invalid. What's your stance on Tech 3 cruiser skill point loss?
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4782	Posted - 2013.04.29 00:32:00 - [35] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Look at all these highsec players who think their opinion on clone costs is worth something. If you seriously think that having SP loss every time you lose your clone regardless of what you do is a good thing, you're definitely free to try it out yourself (by which I mean PVP in nullsec for a month without ever upgrading your clone) and judge if this enriches your game experience or not. Everybody knows you won't, so your opinion is invalid. What's your stance on Tech 3 cruiser skill point loss? I'm perfectly fine with it, and I say this as someone who's gone through it three times. Tech 3 cruisers are unique ships with unique abilities and strengths but also unique setbacks. This is one of them. It offsets the fact that they're really easy to train for.
Danu Charante Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2013.04.29 00:47:00 - [36] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Danu Charante wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Look at all these highsec players who think their opinion on clone costs is worth something. If you seriously think that having SP loss every time you lose your clone regardless of what you do is a good thing, you're definitely free to try it out yourself (by which I mean PVP in nullsec for a month without ever upgrading your clone) and judge if this enriches your game experience or not. Everybody knows you won't, so your opinion is invalid. What's your stance on Tech 3 cruiser skill point loss? I'm perfectly fine with it, and I say this as someone who's gone through it three times. Tech 3 cruisers are unique ships with unique abilities and strengths but also unique setbacks. This is one of them. It offsets the fact that they're really easy to train for. Would you be against implementing a similar system to supercaps. What would this do to PvP in nullsec? (Genuinely interested)
Arronicus Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective 593	Posted - 2013.04.29 01:14:00 - [37] - Quote Suggestions and ideas > One of the countless 'clones cost too much' threads already available through the search function. That, and CCP is already planning to rework it.
ZAKURELL0 LINDA Arkhon Industries Solarmark Coalition 7	Posted - 2013.04.29 01:33:00 - [38] - Quote Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote: No clones! Eve on hardcore mode who's gonna make tears out of hi-sec bears then? there will be a hunger-strike and everyone starved to death for no tears to feast on RIP Iron Lady
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 323	Posted - 2013.04.29 02:06:00 - [39] - Quote Cryten Jones wrote: I am saying that there comes a point that playing in the small to medium random engagement game becomes un-appealing when your clone costs twice your ship. To be honest I would be happy with free clones and loosing points from the skills in use at the time of death. eg die in a Caldari frigate and loose points from that skill or a skill that was in use on the ship like missiles, or shields... -CJ CCP will probably lower clone prices at some point. However, escalating clone costs have very specific and important functions in regards to game balance and excitement of play. They are a huge sink, theoretically this is not much of an issue as players would most likely spend the same amount on clones if they were cheaper just because they would PvP more. The increased risk for more experienced players keeps combat dangerous and exciting, even though many ships are pretty easy for them to afford. This level of risk is what makes Eve PvP what it is, the threat of loss must be kept high for all pilots regardless of SP's. Higher priced clones are a limiting factor, a weakness, that newer players can exploit. If clone costs are removed or lowered then high SP characters will be more powerful in relation to the current system. Power creep is something that CCP is actively trying to decelerate, any change to clone costs will have to take this into account. Higher priced clones are a factor in sovereign warfare; if Goons go to war with Test and each side looses 1000 clones a week then Goons have lost an additional 20billion ISK per week over what Test did, assuming their clones cost 20million more per clone. Removing this disparity would further entrench an already stagnant nullsec, another issue that CCP seems to be trying to mitigate. The list goes on a bit further, but its late here and I'm off to sleep soon. The point stands though that clones are a big part of game balance and making them more affordable will have many consequences. As such I don't think its going to be something that we see rapid change on. In the meantime you can fight in lowsec where there are no bubbles and your clone is easier to save. Or start an small ship alt and plan on keeping its SP's to an affordable level. Or buy a PLEX and sell it just so you don't have to be concerned with clone pricing in game. Slavery is self choosen, only the unclaimed are not free. ...Book of Reclaiming: Hall of the Goat
Zhade Lezte Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 99	Posted - 2013.04.29 02:15:00 - [40] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Danu Charante wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Look at all these highsec players who think their opinion on clone costs is worth something. If you seriously think that having SP loss every time you lose your clone regardless of what you do is a good thing, you're definitely free to try it out yourself (by which I mean PVP in nullsec for a month without ever upgrading your clone) and judge if this enriches your game experience or not. Everybody knows you won't, so your opinion is invalid. What's your stance on Tech 3 cruiser skill point loss? I'm perfectly fine with it, and I say this as someone who's gone through it three times. Tech 3 cruisers are unique ships with unique abilities and strengths but also unique setbacks. This is one of them. It offsets the fact that they're really easy to train for. Would you be against implementing a similar system to supercaps. What would this do to PvP in nullsec? (Genuinely interested) Death to all supercaps. Honestly it probably wouldn't change much because the price of supers is already very significant, this would just add a cost equal to the SP cost of titan V or whatnot. Nothing to sneeze at certainly and a heavy blow, but not enough of a change to alter the already rather cautious nature in which they are used. Disclaimer: I am not a super pilot so I'm judging this about what I've gleaned from actual super pilots and what I have picked up about supercap use.
Rachel Starchaser Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.04.29 02:53:00 - [41] - Quote Yeah I agree the cost of clones is a lot can't we just do away with it?
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4795	Posted - 2013.04.29 05:05:00 - [42] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: Would you be against implementing a similar system to supercaps. What would this do to PvP in nullsec? (Genuinely interested) I really doubt it would make any difference. That being said we really don't want to disincentivize people from risking supercaps any more than we already do.
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition. 3523	Posted - 2013.04.29 07:17:00 - [43] - Quote I wrote this article back in January. While I was a bit 'shoot from the hip' as far as the insurance change; I stand by my opinion on clone costs causing risk averse game play. Flight of a Thousand Rifters III ---- Vengeance ---- Player Event coming May 5th 2013
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 324	Posted - 2013.04.29 09:50:00 - [44] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: I wrote this article back in January. While I was a bit 'shoot from the hip' as far as the insurance change; I stand by my opinion on clone costs causing risk averse game play. Your article and the editors opinion of it are based on incorrect assumptions: The cost of clones or of PvP in general is not the cause of people avoiding it. Rather this cost is part and parcel of what the game is. Success in Eve is not just about knowing the ship types, game mechanics, and creating advantage for yourself in FiS combat. Ones ability to generate and manage resources is equally important. Because of this a character with 100million SP has an advantage over one with 30 million even if they are both in a ship that maxes out at 20 million. The higher SP toon has more options for generating and managing wealth. These options are an advantage in combat that must be paid for. This is even more true at the alliance level. Part of the ability of an alliance like Goons to generate income is provided by their very dense SP ratio's, and so they must pay to bring that advantage to the field. What you call "risk aversion" is rather what makes Eve combat exciting. that feeling that the loss will hurt and that you don't want to get podded is what makes the game fun. Remove it and Eve becomes about solely about the "joy" of dominating others through spreadsheeting and meta-gaming. Slavery is self choosen, only the unclaimed are not free. ...Book of Reclaiming: Hall of the Goat
Mara Tessidar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 858	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:03:00 - [45] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Ones ability to generate and manage resources is equally important. Because of this a character with 100million SP has an advantage over one with 30 million even if they are both in a ship that maxes out at 20 million. The higher SP toon has more options for generating and managing wealth. These options are an advantage in combat that must be paid for. no Reading the EVEO forums is like huffing gas or sniffing glue. Sure it's funny and you get high, but you pay a terrible, terrible price in the long run.
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 324	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:04:00 - [46] - Quote Mara Tessidar wrote: Corey Fumimasa wrote: Ones ability to generate and manage resources is equally important. Because of this a character with 100million SP has an advantage over one with 30 million even if they are both in a ship that maxes out at 20 million. The higher SP toon has more options for generating and managing wealth. These options are an advantage in combat that must be paid for. no The fact that you disagree with me matters not in the slightest. Slavery is self choosen, only the unclaimed are not free. ...Book of Reclaiming: Hall of the Goat
March rabbit epTa Team Inc. 656	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:13:00 - [47] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Look at all these highsec players who think their opinion on clone costs is worth something. ... Everybody knows you won't, so your opinion is invalid. Look at all these non-highsec players who think their opinion on clone costs is worth something thanks for saving me few seconds
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 107	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:16:00 - [48] - Quote ZAKURELL0 LINDA wrote: Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote: No clones! Eve on hardcore mode who's gonna make tears out of hi-sec bears then? there will be a hunger-strike and everyone starved to death for no tears to feast on If that happens You can feast on the tears of the people that cry for more tears. Tears never stop. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Mara Tessidar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 859	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:44:00 - [49] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: The fact that you disagree with me matters not in the slightest. Sheer wallet size should not be and will never be the determinant of victory in Eve, nor does accumulated skillpoints correlate with increased wealth (case in point: trading alts). Reading the EVEO forums is like huffing gas or sniffing glue. Sure it's funny and you get high, but you pay a terrible, terrible price in the long run.
Minty Aroma The Metalocalypse is Coming 3	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:51:00 - [50] - Quote How about changing the Jump Clone c/d down to 1 hour, or maybe have a skill that reduces time off the c/d. Then there will be less of a problem with loosing the valuable implants as you can just jump clone and pvp in that.
Riot Girl RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries 728	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:55:00 - [51] - Quote There's no way people would abuse that feature. Oh god.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4804	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:55:00 - [52] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Look at all these non-highsec players who think their opinion on clone costs is worth something thanks for saving me few seconds Except ours actually is, considering we're the ones who get podded at a considerably higher rate. Again, you're free to demonstrate with proof of course your increased enjoyment of the game after being podded several times in an insufficient clone. Minty Aroma wrote: How about changing the Jump Clone c/d down to 1 hour, or maybe have a skill that reduces time off the c/d. Then there will be less of a problem with loosing the valuable implants as you can just jump clone and pvp in that. This isn't about implants though. This is about medical clones. Jump clones and implant costs are a separate issue entirely.
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 324	Posted - 2013.04.29 10:55:00 - [53] - Quote Mara Tessidar wrote: Corey Fumimasa wrote: The fact that you disagree with me matters not in the slightest. Sheer wallet size should not be and will never be the determinant of victory in Eve, nor does accumulated skillpoints correlate with increased wealth (case in point: trading alts). Yeahhhh. Your 10 bux is well spent. Slavery is self choosen, only the unclaimed are not free. ...Book of Reclaiming: Hall of the Goat
Riot Girl RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries 729	Posted - 2013.04.29 11:10:00 - [54] - Quote My opinions may be unpopular but I personally don't like the idea of jump clones at all. I don't think a player should be able to just jump across the galaxy at will, even with a 24 hour cooldown. The system is also unwieldy and tricky to manage... the only way to improve it is to lower the cooldown, which is something I don't approve of. Even though I use jump clones myself, I wouldn't be sad to see them removed from the game. I'm not keen on the idea of clone insurance either, as I think it will only encourage 'pod express' playstyle. Perhaps making implants removable may be one solution, but that would also have negative impacts. Oh god.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 433	Posted - 2013.04.29 11:18:00 - [55] - Quote Implants are fine as they are. Clone costs are not. It reminds me of Dark Souls. You can achieve hundreds of levels in that game but people tend to keep hanging around level 120 in order to get the most enjoyment out of pvp. When I look at some of the higher clone costs, I think to myself once I reach that I will make an alt and stop training, or from that point on I'll probably have to go full carebear in order to pvp every week. It's not a good prognosis. I'm glad it's a few years away!
Riot Girl RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries 729	Posted - 2013.04.29 11:31:00 - [56] - Quote Running anomalies for an hour will cover the cost of a clone and a T1 cruiser for a 200m SP character. So that's the risk you take for engaging in small gang PvP; the prospect of having to grind for an hour to cover the cost of your entertainment. Too much risk for too little reward? Oh god.
Mara Tessidar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 859	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:37:00 - [57] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Are you suggesting that clone costs should be based on the age of the account and not the SP's of an individual character? No. Reading the EVEO forums is like huffing gas or sniffing glue. Sure it's funny and you get high, but you pay a terrible, terrible price in the long run.
Carniflex StarHunt Intrepid Crossing 79	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:49:00 - [58] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: How many pods do you actually lose? Generally my implant costs when podded far outweigh any clone costs. As a result of my position in alphabet and the fact that I often fly ewar I tend to get podded in every fleet where my side does not win. My clone cost without any additional hardware plugged in is 40 mil isk. Out of that approx 150 mil SP perhaps .. uhh .. 20? .. 30 mil perhaps .. is useful for that particular ewar ship i happen to be in. Yeah, I can probably fly them all ta max skills but thats not THAT relevant when I'm going up in flames in Scorpion. As a direct result of my clone costs I use .. cheaper .. clones for flying small fun ships. Afterall, full EVE experience starts at 2 accounts. I have a bit more than that ofc. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
fukier 935	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:05:00 - [59] - Quote i always thought the way to fix clones is to make clones player traded and player made... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Athena Maldoran Special Nymphs On A Mission 2115	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:05:00 - [60] - Quote Was it you i podded 42 times in a row?

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