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Are there any deaf players out there?

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Cipher7 Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.05.06 12:57:00 - [31] - Quote Hearing impaired Its not that bad, I catch %50+ of what comes over ts One time an FC had me relay voice comms, I'm thinking to myself "deaf leading the deaf"
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 393	Posted - 2013.05.06 12:59:00 - [32] - Quote Dheeradj Nurgle wrote: TEST has a few deaf players. Most of them get by by haveing somebody relay commands in private convo. It's not optimal, but we do try to include them in fleets. Is relaying standard for you guys or does it just come up when someone asks? )) Also---> give back Republicof! (( The weight of strange. RL religeous warning, do not watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Mv2MWv0k0
Akira Menoko Dark Matter Fleet Yards 1	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:18:00 - [33] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Are you unable to hear sounds in Evef? have you worked with a deaf person in game? What would you like to see and how can you best be incorporated into fleet? Do you have access to a talk to text program? or does that lag things up too much? Is it better if a dedicated relayer interprets fleet chat or would it be better if everything is broadcast using the fleet broadcast tool? Anyway, thanks for your time and for anyone that has a handicap thanks for playing, it helps me to see the game in new and interesting ways. I'm not deaf and don't know of any deaf players in Eve. But in Eve I can sympathize with the deaf players since for a long time I couldn't use any of the voice software on my computer (turned out it was an issue with an old router). In fleets I'd have to rely on a relay and that usually fell apart after about 10 minutes so I'd simply be observant and look at what other people were doing in fleet, and just mimic their actions. My real life job is with a community college's disabled students department as a "technology specialist." Most of the time this means I'm a regular computer technician, but if we have a deaf student in a class and can't arrange in-person sign language interpreters we'll teleconference with one (or two if its a long class). Setting up the teleconferencing equipment and making sure its working correctly every day becomes a major part of my job. You mentioned something about voice to text software, and there is some stuff out there that does that. But the stuff I've seen is not anywhere near good enough to convert conversation from multiple speakers into text without being riddled with errors. Its been a while since I've looked into it though, so it may have been some advances in the field.
Lady Areola Fappington New Order Logistics CODE. 180	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:24:00 - [34] - Quote Corey, we touched on this topic in another thread, IIRC. I'm mostly deaf myself, but I get by well enough by muting out everyone but important people on comms. I'd really like the idea of a relay service, but, it'd be difficult to implement due to ~metagame~ in EVE. Now, if you want to make something work...I recommend looking for court stenographers who play EVE. They have the specific training (and sometimes equipment), to do real-time audio to text transcription. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
Fradle Beavercreek Popcorn Festival Patrons 71	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:29:00 - [35] - Quote I've met a fair amount of deaf eve players. But I also went to a technical institute that had a very large deaf community... so I'm not the best one to base numbers off of.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4895	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:44:00 - [36] - Quote There are several deaf players in my alliance. One of whom, who has been deaf since birth, is actually an FC and a pretty decent one at that. We also have a dedicated channel for fleet relays so that anybody who is hard of hearing or simply wants relayed commands for other reasons can join. It's also come in handy for other things like if our Teamspeak server goes on the fritz in the middle of a fight. There's always someone in fleet willing to volunteer to serve as relay.
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 1197	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:10:00 - [37] - Quote My hearing could be better,,,a lot better. Bit off topic; man, I hate dubbed films. The voices just do not match the lip movements. This really hurts my brain, so I avoid them unless my gf wants to watch one of them. Then I just ***** and whine. This is not a signature.
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 158	Posted - 2013.05.06 23:07:00 - [38] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: I was in fleet the other day and one of the fleet members was deaf. The FC asked for someone to relay commands, and I x'ed up. Fleet chat was busy with banter and noise so I opened a private chat specifically for the relayed voice and invited anyone in fleet to it. As it was only myself and the person who needed the relay were there. This sort of surprised me because I often miss a voice command and have to go back and read through chat or look at the broadcasts to see what is going on. A dedicated relay channel would be awesome. Anyway I typed all the voice commands and tried to relay some of the idle banter; little arguments and calls to clear comms, FC thinking out loud, and laughter that you sometimes hear. I'm not a great typist or a good multi-tasker =-P We both died! But I had a good time and it was interesting to think about the game in a new way. Are you unable to hear sounds in Evef? have you worked with a deaf person in game? What would you like to see and how can you best be incorporated into fleet? Do you have access to a talk to text program? or does that lag things up too much? Is it better if a dedicated relayer interprets fleet chat or would it be better if everything is broadcast using the fleet broadcast tool? Anyway, thanks for your time and for anyone that has a handicap thanks for playing, it helps me to see the game in new and interesting ways. Yeah I used to be the guy to do the closed captioning convo for him. I felt bad for the guy because every 3rd word was misspelled and I would mess with him and tell him they said he wears panties and shiit to get him to start talkin trash to the other guys unprovoked. Good yuks with that guy I wish he still played.
OfBalance Caldari State 445	Posted - 2013.05.07 02:46:00 - [39] - Quote I too, am deaf.
Akirei Scytale Test Alliance Please Ignore 3129	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:04:00 - [40] - Quote With enough motivation, it probably wouldn't be too hard to jury rig this software to take mumble / ventrilo / whatever's output as an input, and have it transcribe text onto an alternate monitor. You'd probably have to train it with the FC's voice and use a no chatter voice channel, but I can see this being somewhat feasible. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance

Tasha Saisima State War Academy Caldari State 18	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:17:00 - [41] - Quote I assisted someone who was deaf in running a few incursions.
Private Pineapple Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 320	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:29:00 - [42] - Quote Hmm... I stopped nearly-a-year streak of not posting on these forums just to post in this thread. It's caught my eye for a while now and I've wanted to reply for some time. Yes, there are tons of deaf players in this game but they like to stay quiet about things in general because hearing people are usually quite harsh towards them in another MMOs, and EVE does attract a ruthless crowd. I tried starting up a corporation once a long long time ago, didn't work out. Too few people. Even fewer people who have enough confidence to join a corporation that basically tells everyone you're deaf. I must say that this game has the potential to be the most deaf-friendly MMO to hit the markets as combat is usually quite slow. You could make do with short text commands such as: Movement: wt [System] --> warp to [System] wt [System] @ [Distance] --> warp to [System] at [Distance] jump --> Jump hold/sb/standby/wait --> Standby for further directions ...etc Context: enemies ns --> Enemies on the next side waiting os --> Waiting on scout to relay info ...etc Combat: pri [Name] --> primary [Name] sec [Name] --> secondary [Name] ter [Name] --> tertiary [Name] fire --> Fire fire aw --> Fire at whatever/will ...etc I mean, I dunno. That was the plan for my deaf corporation so we could be a good pvp unit but because like no one joined, it never came to fruition. I hope other FCs pick up this idea and use it though... being deaf myself, believe me when I say that we thrive on visual cues and textual commands. Most of the time we get by in a fleet by following what people do instead of listening to the FC. But this can be a problem as we usually just don't know what the hell is going on... basically there is no context for us to work with. If people just took the time to clarify why we're doing X thing, we'd be able to piece the rest of the dots together! Fradle wrote: I've met a fair amount of deaf eve players. But I also went to a technical institute that had a very large deaf community... so I'm not the best one to base numbers off of. Out with the names! I'm pretty sure you're talking of Rochester Institute of Technology due to their famous (at least in the deaf community) National Technical Institute for the Deaf. There are tons of deaf people here due to the federal funding of services rendered (such as interpreting, notetaking, Cprint relaying...). Personally I go there for the tuition benefits "just for being deaf" and learn at RIT. I'm graduating in two weeks anyway and will be working, so please believe me when I say that all deaf / HoH (hard of hearing) students should come here. It is an amazing place and a lot of hearing people are eager to learn sign language. Hell, even the town itself -- Rochester -- has been dubbed the "deaf capital" throughout the deaf community due to the sheer amount of deaf / HoH residents here. I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum. I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
Innabiggahurry Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 05:05:00 - [43] - Quote I'm hearing impaired, not deaf, and I wear hearing aids, so I get by ok. However, not a lot of headphones work well with standard hearing aids. The problems are variations on cramming the aid into your ear canal or feedback caused by proximity of the mic surface. You need those big, over the ear cans. Those are getting harder to find in mic'd headsets. Either way they're also freaking hot, like ear muffs on top of ear plugs. Top end designs are blue tooth capable, so there might be some good stuff to use for those who can afford those types. I haven't seen much broadcast/tagging use in the fleets I've been in, but it sure seems like it ought to be possible to use it effectively. The UI for it though isn't especially friendly, but I've also not done much of it so maybe it gets easier with practice. Perhaps with CCPs various UI initiatives and HUD improvements, some thought could be given to making that system work better. Maybe some options to make things flashy/glowy/whatever to help draw the eye. Gotta say I'm very surprised and pleased to see how much accommodation has been provided by the organizations in this thread. Very impressive, guys. Almost makes me want to put in an app. I'd be happy to relay to my brethren!
Vortexo VonBrenner Coldest Sea Sailing The Honda Accord 56	Posted - 2013.05.07 05:13:00 - [44] - Quote Could voice-recognition software like 'Dragon Naturally Speaking' be used to relay orders/communications to other players in a realtime typed format? . I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 4896	Posted - 2013.05.07 08:31:00 - [45] - Quote Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: Could voice-recognition software like 'Dragon Naturally Speaking' be used to relay orders/communications to other players in a realtime typed format? . I seriously doubt any voice recognition software will be able to pick up many of the esoteric terms we use in EVE. Even if it did, as pointed out earlier, the software tends to get confused easily with multiple speakers.
Dheeradj Nurgle Hoover Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 359	Posted - 2013.05.07 09:34:00 - [46] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Dheeradj Nurgle wrote: TEST has a few deaf players. Most of them get by by haveing somebody relay commands in private convo. It's not optimal, but we do try to include them in fleets. Is relaying standard for you guys or does it just come up when someone asks? )) Also---> give back Republicof! (( It's not standard. Though when they mention it/ask, 99.9% of them getting it.
Structured Chaos Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:01:00 - [47] - Quote Quote: Out with the names! I'm pretty sure you're talking of Rochester Institute of Technology due to their famous (at least in the deaf community) National Technical Institute for the Deaf. That was my first guess also. Lots of deaf students here at RIT.
Istyn Freight Club Whores in space 191	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:30:00 - [48] - Quote Thread reminds me of this quote Quote: Vin Hellsing > Oh yeah. I can't use Ventrilo, by the way. Yuki Li > that's utter failure Vin Hellsing > I'm deaf, you idiot.
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 400	Posted - 2013.05.07 12:30:00 - [49] - Quote I got a couple of Emails back from hearing impaired advocacy groups: The guy from NAD (the biggest, most well funded group) was like "Video games! meh, don't waste my time. Here's a link, talk to them --->http://www.ablegamers.com/ The link is pretty interesting, I registered there and will start a thread on their forums when I get a chance. One has yet to respond. And the third was to "The Hearing and Speech Agency." Amy Bopp, the Coordinator of their Sign Language Program sent back a great letter and asked a bit about the game. She said that she had some ideas but would like to see the game first hand. I sent her a budy invite. So no griefing Amy! The weight of strange. RL religeous warning, do not watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Mv2MWv0k0
Morganta Peripheral Madness Clockwork Pineapple 1852	Posted - 2013.05.07 13:03:00 - [50] - Quote a captioning tool, either third party or built into the game would probably help. cant say if its possible as it would have to be glomed onto a specific chat channel of the user's choosing. even still, CC would totally crap itself with the accents, shorthand and proprietary lingo we use. not sure there is an elegant fix-all solution to the deaf player question

Lenda Shinhwa New Order Logistics CODE. 5	Posted - 2013.05.07 17:03:00 - [51] - Quote I use a program called Ditto that provides an enhanced clipboard. You can store a history of text in it and it is easy to pop up and select what you want. I of course use it to taunt miners in the hopes of extracting tears. But it could just as easily be used to load up with several key phrases for use in PvP. What you would need more than anything is an FC that used standardized phrases for common tasks to cut down on the time it takes you to understand what he is saying and therefore pick the right relay text off the clipboard. Combine that with an FC who actually uses the Tag system on the overview and I would think you could get by pretty well. Ditto: http://ditto-cp.sourceforge.net/
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 160	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:42:00 - [52] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: And the third was to "The Hearing and Speech Agency." Amyb9, the Coordinator of their Sign Language Program sent back a great letter and asked a bit about the game. She said that she had some ideas but would like to see Eve first hand. I sent her a budy invite. So no griefing Amy! Oh that should be good... With the new audio cues we may even be able to get blind people playing just tell them to fit smartbombs and swish the mouse around clicking till they hear BZZZZzzzz.
Vortexo VonBrenner Coldest Sea Sailing The Honda Accord 60	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:50:00 - [53] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: Could voice-recognition software like 'Dragon Naturally Speaking' be used to relay orders/communications to other players in a realtime typed format? I seriously doubt any voice recognition software will be able to pick up many of the esoteric terms we use in EVE. Even if it did, as pointed out earlier, the software tends to get confused easily with multiple speakers. You're right about multiple speakers and such - that wouldn't work . That's why you couldn't use it directly from voice comms, a human would still be needed to relay between voice comms and the people being communicated to. It would just hopefully be faster since the program would type out what the person doing the relaying was saying in real time. Perhaps that might allow more people to be able to volunteer to be working relay since one wouldn't have to be able to type really fast? Although each individual relayer would probably need to have their own voice-recognition program set up to recognize how they speak. As for terms, once you clarify to the program you are saying "cyno" and not "cyan" I think it remembers that...you "train" it with the terms and shorthand terms (AU, awox, npc, etc) you commonly use. Just an idea... I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming.
Akira Menoko Dark Matter Fleet Yards Care Factor 2	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:55:00 - [54] - Quote It'd be interesting to see if Dragon Naturally Speaking could be used for live captioning. I doubt you could pipe text into the eve client without some serious programming and EULA violations, but using a second monitor with a 3rd party chat/communication program could work. The Dragon software can be trained to recognize special terms as well, so that wouldn't be too big of a problem. Each FC would need to work with and train the software though. That would take time but would limit recognition errors.
Private Pineapple Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 322	Posted - 2013.05.07 22:05:00 - [55] - Quote Lenda Shinhwa wrote: I use a program called Ditto that provides an enhanced clipboard. You can store a history of text in it and it is easy to pop up and select what you want. I of course use it to taunt miners in the hopes of extracting tears. But it could just as easily be used to load up with several key phrases for use in PvP. What you would need more than anything is an FC that used standardized phrases for common tasks to cut down on the time it takes you to understand what he is saying and therefore pick the right relay text off the clipboard. Combine that with an FC who actually uses the Tag system on the overview and I would think you could get by pretty well. Ditto: http://ditto-cp.sourceforge.net/ This should be perfect. All it takes is a FC that is willing to use it. I am the Kingpin of the Crime and Punishment forum. I am the rightful heir to the CSM 8 throne.
Harek Delusions Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.07 22:33:00 - [56] - Quote Deaf player going on since 2005...it gets quite lonely in Eve at times. TS (Teamspeak) and Eve Voice is a huge barrier and countless corporations and alliances reject enough times. Founded my own corp and play with few friends. Any Deaf/HoH capsuleers chime in-game would be wonderful :) CCP should balance out the need for the hearing and Deaf/HoH/Blind...equal access and break down the barriers plus discrimination/prejudice -Harek
Maggie Evenstar Tantrum Pussycats 40	Posted - 2013.05.07 23:37:00 - [57] - Quote Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: Could voice-recognition software like 'Dragon Naturally Speaking' be used to relay orders/communications to other players in a realtime typed format? Unequivocally the answer is no. Dragon Naturally Speaking must be trained to the speaker and requires high quality input. Being deaf myself, I've tried to run Dragon through Teamspeak and Vent and the results are virtually unintelligible...even if only one person is speaking. You can get a good idea of how limited untrained voice to text is by using the feature on Youtube. Youtube has an "automatic captions" option for videos that don't include captions (not to be mistaken for captions that have been manually added to a video). To see what I'm talking about, watch the video linked below with "automatic captions" turned on (accessible by the CC icon at the bottom of the video window. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_02lo5P3vE These are results with only one person speaking...now image what Teamspeak or Vent is like... If you find a person claiming to be deaf who uses voice comms and claiming to be using some voice to text solution successfully...they are in all likelihood not deaf and and trying to pretend they are for whatever reason. This really annoys me because, being a deaf player, I am asked to come on voice comms all the time and when I explain that I'm deaf there is always someone who claims to have known someone who was deaf who used voice to text successfully and that I should put a solution like that in place. The truth is, I'm not being difficult...there are currently NO workable solutions to allow deaf players to interact using voice comms.
Lenda Shinhwa New Order Logistics CODE. 6	Posted - 2013.05.07 23:43:00 - [58] - Quote Harek wrote: Deaf player going on since 2005...it gets quite lonely in Eve at times. TS (Teamspeak) and Eve Voice is a huge barrier and countless corporations and alliances reject enough times. Founded my own corp and play with few friends. Any Deaf/HoH capsuleers chime in-game would be wonderful :) CCP should balance out the need for the hearing and Deaf/HoH/Blind...equal access and break down the barriers plus discrimination/prejudice -Harek I'm sorry you've had a hard time. You'd be welcome in New Order Logistics I can tell you that. But CCP provides both text and voice options which seems to cover both those who can hear and those who can't. So your discrimination/prejudice claim seems a little weak. Now if players or corps won't play with you because you can't do voice coms, then that is their loss and their discrimination; not CCPs.
Maggie Evenstar Tantrum Pussycats 40	Posted - 2013.05.08 00:33:00 - [59] - Quote Harek wrote: Deaf player going on since 2005...it gets quite lonely in Eve at times. TS (Teamspeak) and Eve Voice is a huge barrier and countless corporations and alliances reject enough times. Founded my own corp and play with few friends. Any Deaf/HoH capsuleers chime in-game would be wonderful :) CCP should balance out the need for the hearing and Deaf/HoH/Blind...equal access and break down the barriers plus discrimination/prejudice -Harek Okay, I'll rant a bit... Here are a few of the more notable discriminatory treatments I've had in Eve due to my deafness. 1. Last year I tried to join Eve University but the recruiter said I could not join since I could not hear the voice comms due to the fact that I'm deaf. I appreciate their teaching new players Eve, but thought that treatment was absolutely reprehensible. 2. As a girl gamer, I was invited to join the Women Gamers of Eve channel of which I was a member for almost a year. The admin who invited me allowed me to avoid the teamspeak interview (to verify I am really a girl) because I shared with her my personal website, hosted under MYNAMEIRL.COM (which is also Maggie) and contained a number of photos of me. I had her send me a email from the contact form on the site to verify that it was me. I also let her see me on facebook and run a whois search on my website domain name to see my name yet again as the owner of the site (along with my cell number and home address!). In retrospect, this was all very very stupid of me to share like that but that's what I did. Then, about a year later, the main channel admin singled me out when she heard I was deaf and started asking me how I got into the channel. I told her, but she demanded the voice interview and removed me. I just thought the whole thing was incredibly rude and insensitive. I could let this person hear my voice or see me on cams, but after being targeted like that because of my being deaf...I have absolutely no interest in being involved with anything in which that person is involved. 3. Here is something that has happened a few times...I'll be in a fleet doing some sort of OP and suddenly convo goes completely silent for 10+ minutes...no one responding because they are not paying attention because they are on voice (not even a quick response saying "we are working on something in voice"). When I try to explain that I need to be kept better in the loop, on more than one occasion I've had guys respond that they think I'm trying to make the world revolve around me which is totally not true (not in these cases anyway ). Some of that may be a perception because I am very chatty but chat is THE ONLY communication I have in here. I think there is basically just a total disconnect with a lot of people with what it is like to be deaf and what is required for meaningful interaction. I find to play Eve, I have to find players willing to NOT use voice comms so that communication is steady. This means I have to avoid large fleet activities altogether (except for incursions)...which are pretty straight forward and don't require comms once you know what you're doing. Okay...my rant is over...If you are deaf or would like to play with a deaf player...look me up. I live in WH space with Highsec access so it's pretty easy to get to me.
Maggie Evenstar Tantrum Pussycats 40	Posted - 2013.05.08 00:40:00 - [60] - Quote Lenda Shinhwa wrote: Harek wrote: Deaf player going on since 2005...it gets quite lonely in Eve at times. TS (Teamspeak) and Eve Voice is a huge barrier and countless corporations and alliances reject enough times. Founded my own corp and play with few friends. Any Deaf/HoH capsuleers chime in-game would be wonderful :) CCP should balance out the need for the hearing and Deaf/HoH/Blind...equal access and break down the barriers plus discrimination/prejudice -Harek I'm sorry you've had a hard time. You'd be welcome in New Order Logistics I can tell you that. But CCP provides both text and voice options which seems to cover both those who can hear and those who can't. So your discrimination/prejudice claim seems a little weak. Now if players or corps won't play with you because you can't do voice coms, then that is their loss and their discrimination; not CCPs. I'm sorry but this is just ignorant. There are many things CCP could do with the interface in Eve to make communications in fleet activities go much smoother...where txting or talking would not even be required to effectively identify orders and targets. I know there are some of these things in place...but they are so clunky and/or limited as to require additional comms for fleets to keep things straight. This game could be fine tuned to the point where an FC could easily lead fleets without having to say or type a single word.



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