Yeah there is more deaf pilots in EVE, Three are in my corp, myself included. They PVP a lot more than I can (College keeps me busy) and they are pretty good at it. We've come across other deaf pilots in different corp/alliances but we don't know them personally. I recruited two deaf players from my college two months ago and they are still playing. So yeah there is more deaf pilots out there that I am not aware of.

Often we get lucky to get a nice person willing to relay for us, sometime it doesn't happen so we tend to avoid those fights because we often get left behind. A relay channel does help for us. Relaying the other stuff not related to the mission isn't an requirement but a nice bonus.

I personally can hear sounds above 80db so my earphone is cranked up high (Destroyed several headphones due to this... lol.) I can recognize sounds such as shield/armor getting low alarm, nearby explosion, guns firing, running footsteps, etc etc. Just that I can't understand spoken words.

I believe that you were one of my relay in one of the previous fight. I died in that fight but wasn't your fault. Got alpha'd inside a bubble. I would gladly fly with you again.

Thanks for being awesome and helping us deaf pilots out, it's appreciated!

I turned all eve sounds off the first day I subscribed my second account.

I was in fleet the other day and one of the fleet members was deaf. The FC asked for someone to relay commands, and I x'ed up. Fleet chat was busy with banter and noise so I opened a private chat specifically for the relayed voice and invited anyone in fleet to it.

As it was only myself and the person who needed the relay were there. This sort of surprised me because I often miss a voice command and have to go back and read through chat or look at the broadcasts to see what is going on. A dedicated relay channel would be awesome.

Anyway I typed all the voice commands and tried to relay some of the idle banter; little arguments and calls to clear comms, FC thinking out loud, and laughter that you sometimes hear.

I'm not a great typist or a good multi-tasker =-P We both died! But I had a good time and it was interesting to think about the game in a new way.

Are you unable to hear sounds in Evef? have you worked with a deaf person in game? What would you like to see and how can you best be incorporated into fleet? Do you have access to a talk to text program? or does that lag things up too much? Is it better if a dedicated relayer interprets fleet chat or would it be better if everything is broadcast using the fleet broadcast tool?

Anyway, thanks for your time and for anyone that has a handicap thanks for playing, it helps me to see the game in new and interesting ways.

I used to play with a girl that was a deaf/mute. I talked quite a bit with her cousin and he helped her out quite a bit since they often stayed in the same house.
...edited for space...
I dont know what else they could do to make it easier tho... Not many people have the patience to sit and write out commands like you did in the middle of a fleet, and even for those that do its so easy to mess it up somehow (especially when english is not your native language, or its an odd accent).

However im sure the broadcast system can be improved on to be even faster and easier to use, and have some more options (like a big "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" button) but honestly i think the only people who can really answer what would make it easier are people who are deaf and have experiense being in fleets.

I remember flying with a guy that was a quadriplegic. I kid you not. I can't remember how we even got to the topic one day when we were flying but it completely blew me away.

He has a special system that he used his chin and something else to do all of the commands. He ended up linking us the systems he used. I was impressed that he was still able to go on roams and do so much despite what we think of as a disability really made me take a good hard look at people that complain about minor inconveniences in life.

I personally don't play with a lot of in-game sound. I'm usually too busy talking/listening on TS. Kudos to you my friend for taking the time to write to the guy and keep him updated on what the FC was saying.

+1 from me for a great story.

There are deaf players out there. Unfortunately most of them just creep by using the "oh yeah i cant use voip sorry" with whatever reasons they can muster to make excuses. Most of the more ambitious corporations are really useless when it comes to a relay channel. The few times they tried, they did their best but they just weren't able to do it and eventually got tired of relaying it which only worsens the problem.

It's sad though, I'd play the game more if there were dedicated relayers. Anyways it's neat to see that CVA has some deaf pilots, but I don't think I'd be able to join CVA on my main (hence why I'm posting on this alt to prevent embarrassment) due to his... ahem... UK history.

But yeah, the corporations I have been in are totally useless when it comes to relay that I've just given up on them altogether. I once tried to make a "deaf only corporation" on a character called Nonexistent Face (he is not me, I sold him a long time ago) but it never became successful because... well it was just my two deaf irl friends and I ... no one else joined for nearly a year or something iirc.

EDIT: Hmm, it appears that my main is not actually KOS. It's just his (admittedly pirate-based) corporation that's KOS so I guess if I left I could apply...? I may get in touch with you dudes after all :)

Considering how common the question "EVE has sound?" is, I'd say there are a lot of deaf players. In fact, they may be the majority.

Yeah I would love to see some more work done on the broadcast panel, it is a great part of the UI and really makes fleet actions a lot more coordinated, with or without voice.

I'm not sure how I would improve it actually! Maybe resizable/bigger buttons, hotkeys and a few more command options.

TEST has a few deaf players. Most of them get by by haveing somebody relay commands in private convo. It's not optimal, but we do try to include them in fleets.

Are you unable to hear sounds in Evef? have you worked with a deaf person in game? What would you like to see and how can you best be incorporated into fleet? Do you have access to a talk to text program? or does that lag things up too much? Is it better if a dedicated relayer interprets fleet chat or would it be better if everything is broadcast using the fleet broadcast tool?

Anyway, thanks for your time and for anyone that has a handicap thanks for playing, it helps me to see the game in new and interesting ways.

I was in fleet the other day and one of the fleet members was deaf. The FC asked for someone to relay commands, and I x'ed up. Fleet chat was busy with banter and noise so I opened a private chat specifically for the relayed voice and invited anyone in fleet to it.

As it was only myself and the person who needed the relay were there. This sort of surprised me because I often miss a voice command and have to go back and read through chat or look at the broadcasts to see what is going on. A dedicated relay channel would be awesome.

Anyway I typed all the voice commands and tried to relay some of the idle banter; little arguments and calls to clear comms, FC thinking out loud, and laughter that you sometimes hear.

I'm not a great typist or a good multi-tasker =-P We both died! But I had a good time and it was interesting to think about the game in a new way.

Are you unable to hear sounds in Evef? have you worked with a deaf person in game? What would you like to see and how can you best be incorporated into fleet? Do you have access to a talk to text program? or does that lag things up too much? Is it better if a dedicated relayer interprets fleet chat or would it be better if everything is broadcast using the fleet broadcast tool?

Anyway, thanks for your time and for anyone that has a handicap thanks for playing, it helps me to see the game in new and interesting ways.

I've met a fair amount of deaf eve players. But I also went to a technical institute that had a very large deaf community... so I'm not the best one to base numbers off of.

Could voice-recognition software like 'Dragon Naturally Speaking' be used to relay orders/communications to other players in a realtime typed format?



.

Is relaying standard for you guys or does it just come up when someone asks?

)) Also---> give back Republicof! ((

Out with the names! I'm pretty sure you're talking of Rochester Institute of Technology due to their famous (at least in the deaf community) National Technical Institute for the Deaf.

Vin Hellsing > Oh yeah. I can't use Ventrilo, by the way.
Yuki Li > that's utter failure
Vin Hellsing > I'm deaf, you idiot.

And the third was to "The Hearing and Speech Agency." Amyb9, the Coordinator of their Sign Language Program sent back a great letter and asked a bit about the game. She said that she had some ideas but would like to see Eve first hand. I sent her a budy invite. So no griefing Amy!

I seriously doubt any voice recognition software will be able to pick up many of the esoteric terms we use in EVE.
Even if it did, as pointed out earlier, the software tends to get confused easily with multiple speakers.

I use a program called Ditto that provides an enhanced clipboard. You can store a history of text in it and it is easy to pop up and select what you want. I of course use it to taunt miners in the hopes of extracting tears. But it could just as easily be used to load up with several key phrases for use in PvP. What you would need more than anything is an FC that used standardized phrases for common tasks to cut down on the time it takes you to understand what he is saying and therefore pick the right relay text off the clipboard. Combine that with an FC who actually uses the Tag system on the overview and I would think you could get by pretty well.

Ditto:
http://ditto-cp.sourceforge.net/

Could voice-recognition software like 'Dragon Naturally Speaking' be used to relay orders/communications to other players in a realtime typed format?

Deaf player going on since 2005...it gets quite lonely in Eve at times. TS (Teamspeak) and Eve Voice is a huge barrier and countless corporations and alliances reject enough times. Founded my own corp and play with few friends. Any Deaf/HoH capsuleers chime in-game would be wonderful :)

CCP should balance out the need for the hearing and Deaf/HoH/Blind...equal access and break down the barriers plus discrimination/prejudice

-Harek

Deaf player going on since 2005...it gets quite lonely in Eve at times. TS (Teamspeak) and Eve Voice is a huge barrier and countless corporations and alliances reject enough times. Founded my own corp and play with few friends. Any Deaf/HoH capsuleers chime in-game would be wonderful :)

CCP should balance out the need for the hearing and Deaf/HoH/Blind...equal access and break down the barriers plus discrimination/prejudice

-Harek

I'm sorry you've had a hard time. You'd be welcome in New Order Logistics I can tell you that.

But CCP provides both text and voice options which seems to cover both those who can hear and those who can't. So your discrimination/prejudice claim seems a little weak. Now if players or corps won't play with you because you can't do voice coms, then that is their loss and their discrimination; not CCPs.

I'm sorry but this is just ignorant. There are many things CCP could do with the interface in Eve to make communications in fleet activities go much smoother...where txting or talking would not even be required to effectively identify orders and targets. I know there are some of these things in place...but they are so clunky and/or limited as to require additional comms for fleets to keep things straight.

This game could be fine tuned to the point where an FC could easily lead fleets without having to say or type a single word.

Sory I didn't hear you. Can you sign this thread for us hearing impaired.

I use a program called Ditto that provides an enhanced clipboard. You can store a history of text in it and it is easy to pop up and select what you want. I of course use it to taunt miners in the hopes of extracting tears. But it could just as easily be used to load up with several key phrases for use in PvP. What you would need more than anything is an FC that used standardized phrases for common tasks to cut down on the time it takes you to understand what he is saying and therefore pick the right relay text off the clipboard. Combine that with an FC who actually uses the Tag system on the overview and I would think you could get by pretty well.

Ditto:
http://ditto-cp.sourceforge.net/

if the fc is really hot with broadcasts + use text for unbroadcastable commands then i reckon deaf players in dps ships would definitely be able to get involved if they are looking at what the rest of the fleet is doing and checking broadcast timestamps.


not that i know a single thing about being deaf though

You're right about multiple speakers and such - that wouldn't work . That's why you couldn't use it directly from voice comms, a human would still be needed to relay between voice comms and the people being communicated to. It would just hopefully be faster since the program would type out what the person doing the relaying was saying in real time. Perhaps that might allow more people to be able to volunteer to be working relay since one wouldn't have to be able to type really fast? Although each individual relayer would probably need to have their own voice-recognition program set up to recognize how they speak. As for terms, once you clarify to the program you are saying "cyno" and not "cyan" I think it remembers that...you "train" it with the terms and shorthand terms (AU, awox, npc, etc) you commonly use. Just an idea...

I use a program called Ditto that provides an enhanced clipboard. You can store a history of text in it and it is easy to pop up and select what you want. I of course use it to taunt miners in the hopes of extracting tears. But it could just as easily be used to load up with several key phrases for use in PvP. What you would need more than anything is an FC that used standardized phrases for common tasks to cut down on the time it takes you to understand what he is saying and therefore pick the right relay text off the clipboard. Combine that with an FC who actually uses the Tag system on the overview and I would think you could get by pretty well.

Ditto:
http://ditto-cp.sourceforge.net/

Okay, I'll rant a bit...

Here are a few of the more notable discriminatory treatments I've had in Eve due to my deafness.

1. Last year I tried to join Eve University but the recruiter said I could not join since I could not hear the voice comms due to the fact that I'm deaf. I appreciate their teaching new players Eve, but thought that treatment was absolutely reprehensible.

2. As a girl gamer, I was invited to join the Women Gamers of Eve channel of which I was a member for almost a year. The admin who invited me allowed me to avoid the teamspeak interview (to verify I am really a girl) because I shared with her my personal website, hosted under MYNAMEIRL.COM (which is also Maggie) and contained a number of photos of me. I had her send me a email from the contact form on the site to verify that it was me. I also let her see me on facebook and run a whois search on my website domain name to see my name yet again as the owner of the site (along with my cell number and home address!). In retrospect, this was all very very stupid of me to share like that but that's what I did. Then, about a year later, the main channel admin singled me out when she heard I was deaf and started asking me how I got into the channel. I told her, but she demanded the voice interview and removed me. I just thought the whole thing was incredibly rude and insensitive. I could let this person hear my voice or see me on cams, but after being targeted like that because of my being deaf...I have absolutely no interest in being involved with anything in which that person is involved.

3. Here is something that has happened a few times...I'll be in a fleet doing some sort of OP and suddenly convo goes completely silent for 10+ minutes...no one responding because they are not paying attention because they are on voice (not even a quick response saying "we are working on something in voice"). When I try to explain that I need to be kept better in the loop, on more than one occasion I've had guys respond that they think I'm trying to make the world revolve around me which is totally not true (not in these cases anyway ). Some of that may be a perception because I am very chatty but chat is THE ONLY communication I have in here. I think there is basically just a total disconnect with a lot of people with what it is like to be deaf and what is required for meaningful interaction.

I find to play Eve, I have to find players willing to NOT use voice comms so that communication is steady. This means I have to avoid large fleet activities altogether (except for incursions)...which are pretty straight forward and don't require comms once you know what you're doing.

Okay...my rant is over...If you are deaf or would like to play with a deaf player...look me up. I live in WH space with Highsec access so it's pretty easy to get to me.

Thats all bullshit mal-ware you *******!!!!

DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS!!!! "Dito" clipboard ap from "sourceforge"

3. Here is something that has happened a few times...I'll be in a fleet doing some sort of OP and suddenly convo goes completely silent for 10+ minutes...no one responding because they are not paying attention because they are on voice (not even a quick response saying "we are working on something in voice").

Thats all bullshit mal-ware *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS!!!! "Dito" clipboard ap from "sourceforge"

I'm sorry but this is just ignorant. There are many things CCP could do with the interface in Eve to make communications in fleet activities go much smoother...where txting or talking would not even be required to effectively identify orders and targets. I know there are some of these things in place...but they are so clunky and/or limited as to require additional comms for fleets to keep things straight.

This game could be fine tuned to the point where an FC could easily lead fleets without having to say or type a single word.

That's cool. I say hearing impaired people would be welcome in New Order Logistics, given no credit and then get called ignorant. I've been called worse so its Ok.

That all sorts of things in this game could be fine tuned is an understatement of the highest order. That CCP provides a facility to use that accommodates both the hearing and deaf is indisputable. But tarring CCP with the "discrimination" goop for not having the perfect hearing impaired interface is fairly crummy I think. That some corps are tools who will not make allowances for the hearing impaired is unfortunate, but hardly CCP's domain.

Yeah sorry. I downloaded it a long time ago. Didn't have the original link so I just googled it. I'm a pirate in Eve, not IRL. No reason to trust me now, but I found the link I used:

http://download.cnet.com/Ditto/3000-2384_4-10456979.html

To get back on track:

I bet this happens a lot, it is fun for the first 10 minutes but as the fleet starts to get exciting and people drink more beer or whatever the relay tapers off. In my experience this happens in most programs that require people to do something that is out of the ordinary.