I assume the devs are aware of the prevalence of TD condors and other ships. It's particularly evident in Factional Warfare.

With this in mind, it seems maddening that they are considering a nerf to TE's which are becoming somewhat mandatory for certain kinds of PVP. In particular, low sec soloing, or low sec frigate PVP in general.


Suggestions I have heard since the general agreement is this is mostly an issue with frigates using these modules freely include increasing their cap requirement, or fitting requirements (obviously with some bonus applied to the smaller hulls that are supposed to fit them).

Does anyone else think this needs to be reconsidered?

That depends on which scripts are used, but TE's are more commonly fit and more commonly viable to fit. If TC's were mandatory that would be even worse!

That depends on which scripts are used,

but TE's are more commonly fit and more commonly viable to fit.

The solution I favour is to significantly increase the cap use of TDs. Make it the most cap expensive EW.

It's Amarr EW, after all, and they're the cap race.

I.E. they are viable counters to TD's, thus becoming mandatory.

You don't seem to be keyed in to the particular issue I am talking about so kindly refrain from posting further.

The solution I favour is to significantly increase the cap use of TDs. Make it the most cap expensive EW.

It's Amarr EW, after all, and they're the cap race.

This has so far been the best resolution. If you want it, you have to fit accordingly, and it conveniently imposes on kiting fits from using it so easily.

TE's may well be overpowered but the point of this discussion is that while they are facing a nerf, they are currently inherently valuable in countering an even more prevalent issue, which is the over-abundance of TD fits; particularly frigates in low sec.

TE's may well be overpowered but the point of this discussion is that while they are facing a nerf, they are currently inherently valuable in countering an even more prevalent issue, which is the over-abundance of TD fits; particularly frigates in low sec.

TE's may well be overpowered but the point of this discussion is that while they are facing a nerf, they are currently inherently valuable in countering an even more prevalent issue, which is the over-abundance of TD fits; particularly frigates in low sec.

The solution I favour is to significantly increase the cap use of TDs. Make it the most cap expensive EW.

It's Amarr EW, after all, and they're the cap race.

You mean, after removing the cap bonus for laser weapons on almost every Amarrian ship, the next logical step would be to increase the cap cost of other typical Amarrian modules, just to be in line with the new rebalancing concept ?
Sure, why not, didn't want that cap anyway...

Isn't one counter to TDs TPs? The thing is, for half the CPU of TDs you can reduce the effectiveness of a TD by 50-60% on the TDs target, and then the rest of the gang can get bonuses.

TP is like the anti-disruption EWAR, right?

Just wait until tracking disruption affects missiles, too. You won't find a PvP ship in Eve that doesn't carry a TD.

TP doesn't help against optimal range disruption, if you TD the enemy enough to be outside of optimal +2x falloff, his guns become basically useless.

Which touches on a related note, Target Painters.

When I think of someone "painting" a target it is to enable accurate weapons fire, usually from a position that would not normally be able to target the objective.

The current bonuses on Target Painters are fine, but perhaps they could stand a buff to also effectively increase the locking range for all vessels attempting to lock the target painted ship. This would give another (excellent) reason to mount target painters (they are a bit underused at the moment) and bring up their perceived value compared to other EW.

That is pure bullshit, there are plenty of engagements that dont involve a falcon. Kindly stay on topic.

I do sarcasm fine good sir, I simply find it detrimental to a conducive conversation. I.E. this is serious business ^_-

I assume the devs are aware of the prevalence of TD condors and other ships. It's particularly evident in Factional Warfare.

With this in mind, it seems maddening that they are considering a nerf to TE's which are becoming somewhat mandatory for certain kinds of PVP. In particular, low sec soloing, or low sec frigate PVP in general.

EDIT: The key issue are kiting and range disrupting fits, rather than tracking disrupting. GENERALLY, the modules are still far too trivial to fit in general.

Suggestions I have heard since the general agreement is this is mostly an issue with frigates using these modules freely include increasing their cap requirement, or fitting requirements (obviously with some bonus applied to the smaller hulls that are supposed to fit them).

Does anyone else think this needs to be reconsidered?

I know ccp would never go for it, but i would like all EW half as effective, but as effective as they are now on their own races ships

making all race ships have a built in "script" modification?

anyone?

Didn't CCP do something like this with the last expansion?
I think they reduced the base efficiency of all e-war modules but increased the bonus on the dedicated racial e-war hulls to even it out again.

thats exactly what gave me the idea to do it more and to every ship.

"Amarr race bonus 100% to TDs"

just the primary EW though, not talking webs and nuets and such

That would make the ships that do have the EW bonuses hilariously overpowered.

Nope. His plan was to reduce the base efficiency of every e-war module by half, then give the according racial hulls a 100% bonus so that on the racial hulls (including those with EW bonus) the results should be the same- on all other hulls the efficiency would be halved.

Not a bad idea, but in my opinion no top priority.
If you want to address racial imbalance, fixing racial drones would be more important imho.
Give Amarr a reason to use Amarrian drones again instead of stinking, filthy Minmatarr or Gallente drones- it makes not much sense that the drone bonus of a hull will give you a bonus to your enemy's weapons.

Very well.

I was pointing out via sarcasm that ECM (something some see as overpowered) rarely gets used. TD even more so.

When was the last time you met a vexor packing ECM or TD?

Its an unneeded blanket nerf to fix a problem that isn't there and would remove a lot of fitting options for no reason.

i havnt seen a TDing archon either but thats not the point.

if you want to use EW you cant just stuff the EW ability of a cruiser on a frigate while it can point and mwd and expect the same thing

It is. We can hardly have an issue with TD being overpowered if very few people are using that kind of EW.


You dont get the EW ability of a cruiser on a frigate. It sounds to me that you are bitter about people playing smarter than you and rather than you adapting you want CCP to blanket nerf a massive amount of ships. You already have plenty of options to counter these weapons, anerf is not warrented.

Some cruisers have 3 mid slots, a frigate like the condor with 4 mids can do more than these cruisers and do it for ever since its also cap stable.

Why even have roles for ships at all then.

Condor is not an inty or a EW ship but it can tackle and EW at the same time, so why pick an inty or a ew ship....

I bet condors with TDs out number TD bonused ships with TDs. <- this is the point

Why even have roles for ships at all then.

Condor is not an inty or a EW ship but it can tackle and EW at the same time, so why pick an inty or a ew ship....

The very fact the condor is a big enough threat for you to complain about it show just how good teircide is going.

The condor right now is like a crow+mid+cap stability with all 4 active mids using whatever EW they choose for the bargain price of **** all.

im just not as self centered as some of you guys, im thinking of newer players and general balance for the greater good.

The crow is a better tackler, the sentinel is a better TD platform.

The condor is a great little tackle ship for new players allowing them to be much more useful in a fleet.



How is nerfing their ships going to help newbees?

thought this was about the modules?