Well.... Now any gesture of condolence to the Republic by ANY Caldari will look self-serving and trite.

Thank you SO much, Executor Heth...

He's a callous little shitehawk isn't he.

A fine representative of the vultures that have been circling here, trying to further destabalise any peace to serve their own selfish means.

While it may be unpopular to say, I personally hope that the Minmatar accept the condolences of the Executor and the State. While it would be better had the whole affair never happened, perhaps new friendships can be salvaged from the misfortune. I think that the dissolution of old grudges and the hope of a brighter day would be a better outcome than what we currently witness. I also feel that this would, in the long run, be helpful in forming a more durable, lasting peace in the Cluster.

Well.... Now any gesture of condolence to the Republic by ANY Caldari will look self-serving and trite.

Thank you SO much, Executor Heth...

I know you and many other dislike the State Leader Marellus , but i firmly believe his sentiments are genuine.

As it stands, the words come across as callous and hollow.

Well.... Now any gesture of condolence to the Republic by ANY Caldari will look self-serving and trite.

Thank you SO much, Executor Heth...

Go to hell, Heth. You did not just turn a good guy or the megacorps not slaver allies who previously were so, just because we have a quarrel with an ally.

Why? Because I do not think Heth is a good guy?

Why? Because I do not think Heth is a good guy?

Go to hell, Heth. You did not just turn a good guy or the megacorps not slaver allies who previously were so, just because we have a quarrel with an ally.

She was a peacemaker and a proponent for change.

I believe, had I the chance, we would have been fast friends.

Huh.

I'm sure the Minmatar get the idea that the Caldari are anti-slavery, but the State has not once acted upon this belief in an interventionist fashion.

Huh.

We take that so seriously that when a slave-based Amarrian disaster management crew were permitted to work in State space in an action that saved dozens of Caldari lives, the officer who gave them permission to work was subsequently arrested and tried on slave labour charges.

The Caldari take their anti-slavery belief so seriously, that it was the State, not the Federation, that sent military aid to the Minmatar during their Rebellion.

I'm sure the Minmatar get the idea that the Caldari are anti-slavery, but the State has not once acted upon this belief in an interventionist fashion. This does not indicate that the belief is held strongly enough to put it higher than "respectful apathy" to the business of other nations, ie. "Not my business". One would argue if the Caldari are anti-slavery at all if the State has never taken any major political moves against it outside their own borders. Just because it is illegal in the State, doesn't mean you are unilaterally "anti-".

Guess who does hold the cause of anti-slavery to such a high regard, that they are potentially willing to go to war over it? That same group is a group that certain Minmatar are getting sick of.

The amount of disrespect many members of the State show for their actual allies in favor of their enemies is very disappointing.

Why are we allies again? Because frankly given that it's an open secret that the Caldari are among the "wayward children" the Reclaiming is aimed at, and given that your ideals and ours are basically incompatible, I often wonder just what exactly is in it for us other than that the Empire is a huge market for high-tech goods and a huge exporter of food.

Which is a perfectly good reason to conduct trade, but I wouldn't call that the basis for an alliance, not at all.

Which is a perfectly good reason to conduct trade, but I wouldn't call that the basis for an alliance, not at all.

the Kingdom has no intention of expanding which is what Stitcher is so afraid off.

What said however these shifting allegiances are not for the better.

The Amarr are slavers - we dislike that. But we have no right to tell the Empire what to do just as they have no right to tell us what to do. And so we make our opinion known and I think we should scale back our dealings with the Amarr and build bridges elsewhere. But we won't intervene with the Amarr because we do not have the right to dictate how all those people should live their lives.

I believe in meritocracy, in competition, in the economics of humanity and in the free market of ideas. Alliances are an idea, and ideas are products: if a better product comes along, I'll take my custom to that product instead.

I'm sorry if you take issue with the idea that some of us would rather buy from the Sebiestor than from the Khanid. Maybe that should inspire you to upgrade what you're selling.

I'm sorry if you take issue with the idea that some of us would rather buy from the Sebiestor than from the Khanid. Maybe that should inspire you to upgrade what you're selling.

Well, that's a very Federal attitude. Do you not think it could possibly be that the reason we've not acted upon our anti-slavery stance in an interventionist fashion is because we view interventionism as morally repugnant?

Intervening in that manner is what the Federation did to us back in the day which is where the entire trouble between our nations came from. It's what the Amarr want to do to everyone.

Why are we allies again? Because frankly given that it's an open secret that the Caldari are among the "wayward children" the Reclaiming is aimed at, and given that your ideals and ours are basically incompatible, I often wonder just what exactly is in it for us other than that the Empire is a huge market for high-tech goods and a huge exporter of food.

Which is a perfectly good reason to conduct trade, but I wouldn't call that the basis for an alliance, not at all.

It's what you did in 37. But I suppose that doesn't count?

You make it sound like those are the only two options - complaint or resignation.

There's also the option of taking action, you know. There's no guarantee of success of course, but it's not like the only avenues available to us are impotent whining and impotent apathy.

The amount of disrespect many members of the State show for their actual allies in favor of their enemies is very disappointing.

You certainly do a talented impersonation of the way he hijacks conversations and turns them towards his agenda, pilot Jorkarzul. It's uncanny.

Theres another side to that coin Stitcher. Its ok having ideals, but should alliances be based on them. Is it not more important to base them on the security of your nation.

Amarr Empire are they not the strongest nation in New Eden, and have they not been good and valuable allies to this State. If we treat them with direspect and become friendly with their enemy, we will probably lose them as a friend. Next time we need help from powerful allie they may not be there to help.

I just wanted to say something about interventionism, as we do seem to get a lot of trouble for our "business-only" attitude, which has always confused me a little bit. I'd like to point out that these are my own opinions, and do not necessarily reflect the State at large. They seem fairly prevalent amongst the people I live with, though.

We find the idea of making an outsider change what they are to be a little repugnant. Our concept of freedom applies to groups moreso than individuals, so we find it very, very important to let a group do what it will. Expressions of our own distaste are to be made subtly, through non-contact or politeness. This extends to all of our neighbours, though inn some cases our patience has been sorely tested.

[quote=Scherezad]

The Caldari have done more to 'liberate' the slaves of the Kingdom than the Republic's saber-rattling or the Federation's whining.

For every machine you give me that can do the job of several people, that's fewer slaves I require. Trade with the Caldari and the introduction of more and better automated systems reduces the economic need for slavery.

You should not be holding slaves out of 'economic need'. You should be holding them out of concern for their spiritual education and development.

I would suggest that those talking to Stitcher in this thread should remember that he is currently a member of a known terrorist organisation and take that into account when they deal with him.

I would suggest that those talking to Stitcher in this thread should remember that he is currently a member of a known terrorist organisation and take that into account when they deal with him.

Or does the word "terrorist" in your language simply mean "Has a Minmatar CEO."?

Coming soon, to asteroids near you.

aka "shot some Amarrian ships seven years ago".

You've got a long way to go from there to "known terrorist organisation", especially when to my knowledge not a single one of the corporation's presently active members were members in YC108 and as I said, since I joined in 113, the worst victim of our wrath has been Veldspar.

Reformed terrorist organization then.

Got to love euphemisms.

Re-Awakened then proceeded to support several anti-Amarran initiatives while in Electus Matari over the next several years, including direct support of the Ushra'Khan and the Brutor Freedom Front.

You might not personally have commited a terrorist act yourself, but your organisation has a long history of such activity.

So yes, known terrorist organisation.

I still fail to see how the fact that slavers lost ships at our hands ties in with the fact that Heth is trying to placate the Republic with empty words and an attempt to mirror our spirituality.

I still fail to see how the fact that slavers lost ships at our hands ties in with the fact that Heth is trying to placate the Republic with empty words and an attempt to mirror our spirituality.

You should not be holding slaves out of 'economic need'. You should be holding them out of concern for their spiritual development.

I was merely warning those Amarrians trying to reason with Stitcher that such action is likely utterly pointless, given the sordid company he seems to keep.

Go tell that to Khanid II.

When Mr. "Crow," speaks, all I hear is his alleged namesake.

I suspect all those the Imperial throne recognizes as part of the pier council are quite aware of the duties God places upon all who choose to hold slaves in Gods name.

M.K.C.

Capsuleer Haakatain, seven years ago? You are flying in active support of a people who continue to consider grievances sevenhundred years old as valid causes for treaty breaches today.

You do realize that the State isn't exempt from the Amarrian Reclaiming, I hope? Your allies in the Empire have every intention of subjugating the Caldari and forcing you to convert to their culture, religion and laws along with the rest of us. Your ties to the Empire are born of temporary convenience. Don't kid yourselves into believing that the Amarr see you as equals. They don't. They don't even treat many of their own, who've fought along side them for centuries and who've adopted their religion, as equal partners. Just ask the average Ni-Kunni how they're treated by the Amarr.

Please don't take this as a Gallentean attempting to tell you how to run your affairs. That is not my intent, truly and I mean no offense. Consider my words more as a friendly caution.

You do realize that the State isn't exempt from the Amarrian Reclaiming, I hope? Your allies in the Empire have every intention of subjugating the Caldari and forcing you to convert to their culture, religion and laws along with the rest of us.

Sansha Kuvakei was/is a Caldari and he violated Caldari law and tradition, much as the officer who authorized the slave-based Amarrian disaster management crew. Kuvakei's violation was on an incredible scale.

One could argue he was following Caldari tradition.

Really? Then why didn't we get the memo on this? I guess it is truly a testament to the FIO that you guys always seem to have better knowledge of the Empire's grand plans than we do ourselves.

I have Empire friends who consider the Caldari to simply be the least offensive of the heathens. Most of them aren't so far gone that they wouldn't prefer us to 'see the light' on our own, but I'm sure that if the opportunity to 'reclaim' the State arose they'd seize it with glee.

This doesn't mean we can't work with them. It simply means we must do so CAREFULLY.

The Caldari fear being devoured. History has shown them that large entities seek to devour smaller ones. While some joke that the Caldari are squids, they are much more like crabs. A hard shell to protect predators and wicked claws to keep them at bay.

The Caldari fear of an Imperial Reclaiming has nothing to do with the Amarr and much to do with the Gallente. The differences between the Empire and the Federation are deep but lie along cultural lines that the Caldari often can't appreciate in a meaningful way.

In their heart of hearts, I suspect Caldari see everything that is not Caldari as a potential threat.

I don't particularly find it offensive. I hope that others don't either. At some point, it's best to just shrug our shoulders and say 'that's just the way their mind works.'

I have yet to read a collection of words that contain less meaning this. Your abuse of metaphors make any interpretation impossible. If you want people to respect you and find what you say credible, dont pretend to be capable treating the Caldari like a flock following the same will and emotion.

A people does not fear. Individual human beings fear. Address fear on an individual basis and we can start having a discussion.

The Lady Hanaya's statement was quite meaningful, ma'am. Social groups do follow trends and in this fashion can be said to hold a collective will and sentiment. While outliers will exist, these outliers can be accommodated in current sociological models. This fact extends to all humans, not just to the Caldari.

Individual people can be difficult to predict. Groups of people, much less difficult.

I do prefer the metaphor of being a crab. Some of them are very cheerfully coloured, and they always seem to look happy, to me!

That models can be used to explain the dynamics of data systems is something all capsuleers know. If it indeed was statistical significance of a certain result Makkal Hanaya was attempting to prove, I would have expected more elaborate proof of her deductions. With the above statement, the only thing i can conclude is that a simplification of the symbol "Caldari" was invoked and that it was done without explanation.

How, exactly? By setting up colonies of his own and declaring them independent of State oversight and law?

One could argue he was following Caldari tradition.

Not that it really makes a difference. Irrespective of the circumstances of his birth, by the time Nation was attacked he was not Caldari, if he ever considered himself such.