Have you seen the DUST forums? The launch build isn't exactly getting high praise.

Have you seen the DUST forums? The launch build isn't exactly getting high praise.

Have you seen the DUST forums? The launch build isn't exactly getting high praise.

Interesting that a game that's effectively less than six months old and hasn't officially launched yet already has "bitter vets". I think that says more about the players than the game.

I wouldn't judge Uprising on what you read on the Dust forums, far too many attention seeking shiptoasters QQing over nothing - even more than EVE GD...

FPSMMOs generally don't "grow" after release. The first few weeks will most likely as good as it gets for Dust. Just look at some other examples out there, eg. Planetside 2. It's a great game by all means, but it's population quickly fell after the initial launch boom.

It's simply the nature of the MMOFPS game market; it doesn't behave like traditional games in the genre. Dust might turn out to be successful in its own right, but I wouldn't bet on it growing over time like EVE did.

Could have told you long ago Dust would be fail if launched on PS3. The whole training skills in order to play a shooter just doesn't work with the target player base.. FPS-fans are as different from EVE-fans as worms from lions.. CCP couldn't have gotten further away from what they are used to dealing with and producing for, feel sorry for CCP. Good devs but **** for brains management crew up there.

They produced Dust with money from EVE subscribers and then made a game inaccessible to PC-gamers, lolz.
Out of all the games that would have interacted with EVE (a tombraider-style adventure game set in the EVE-universe, a simcity style planet builder that interacts with our market, an rpg or rts set in EVE) they had to go with a flavour of the month, zero brains PS3 shooter. Tweens just became the target audience it seems... Understand who can... They are mixing into an already saturated market were only the best titles stay alive and where 2-3 major players own the market.. Why?
Why couldn't they have produced a game that we would love playing as well. They would have near half a million potential buyers of the bat already for a PC game build for an intelligent audience that would interact with EVE.

I own a PS3 for my son but would never touch it myself and I certainly would never play something as dull and inspirationless as a first person shooter.

CCP management keeps proving they live in an ivory tower. Who are these people who make those calls? Fire them already as they haven't got a clue what people want and what their target demographic is. Even in EVE itself, their bread and butter, they have made some very questionable calls these past years. Who are these people they listen to? Hired management brought in from the US to cash in quickly without having an eye on the future? Many devs are on here talking directly to the players every day, they must know what players want and complain about.. obviously somewhere up the chain they are being ignored at CCP.

Edit: I would gladly come up there and tell you guys for free what gamers want and are interested in. I could also tell you who you reach demographically. When a company systematically ignores its customers they are doomed. What the people who pay the bills want matters, nothing else. Get it through your heads.. instead of wanting what you don't have work with what you do have and produce a superior product. And you know what, when you successfully produce a superior product those people you didn't have will come as well.

Wake up!

I'll end with a conversation I had with 27 year old PS3/FPS loving bud of mine. (He plays for his stats and competes with RL friends about the same age, same game every night more or less)
Me: Hey, you know EVE online I play, they have made a shooter set in the game.
Him: EVE online, you still play that.. Isn't that like really old?
M: Yea, but patches, never old, bigger then ever...
H: Ah...
M: So, it's free to play, called Dust and you are in the EVE world...
H: Ah.. yea I really only play COD when it comes to shooters, so do my friends...
M: Won't you even try?
H: Nah, everyone is on COD, have fun there, you know me and X did 24 kills without dieing the other day bla bla
M: Ah...

So that is the extent of someone who doesn't like EVE's interest in a game produced by CCP, they connect the name, EVE online with the new game and that it takes place in our universe is even a negative thing. It actually keeps some people from trying. Had 2 similar reactions from 2 other PS3 buds when I told them about dust.

Must have doom and gloom...it's fun to read

The wall of QQ and whines in Dust 514 GD is worst than EvE GD.

Something is NOT right!

I think a lot of you optimists overlook the fact that Sony didn't let CCP make a PC version due to the Planetside IP, and CCP is locked into a contract with a company that can eat them because of cashbucks. Companies tend to do things because of legal obligations as often as they do things by choice.

Can Dust do well? Sure. Sometimes longshots win. Do let me know when more than about ten thousand people care though.

I think a lot of you optimists overlook the fact that Sony didn't let CCP make a PC version due to the Planetside IP, and CCP is locked into a contract with a company that can eat them because of cashbucks.

FPSMMOs generally don't "grow" after release. The first few weeks will most likely as good as it gets for Dust. Just look at some other examples out there, eg. Planetside 2. It's a great game by all means, but it's population quickly fell after the initial launch boom.

It's simply the nature of the MMOFPS game market; it doesn't behave like traditional games in the genre. Dust might turn out to be successful in its own right, but I wouldn't bet on it growing over time like EVE did.

FPSMMOs generally don't "grow" after release...

Any valid links we can look at to view these mysterious contracts?

I'm going to assume you were not around for the first few years of EVE with that attitude.

which makes a lot of sense seeing as how the decision not to make a PC version was made long before it Sony had any say in the matter and since they don't have any say in the matter after the fact either. Wait what?

Neither do MMOs in general.

Generally in general, yes. The thing about EVE is that it started really small. It could either fail immediately, or grow; it grew. Aside from WoW, the western MMO market pales in comparison to its Asian counterpart. Ever play Maple Story? That thing couldn't have had more than like two and a half players in the beginning. Then look what happened. Over-hyped games by major studios, on the other hand, have nowhere to go but down. There are exceptions, as with everything, but we can probably agree that small projects are likely to grow and large ones to shrink.

I mean, I really appreciate all of this pro-CCP sentiment as if the company is some kind of infallible being that does no wrong, but things can literally change within the course of a day. One minute we're buying PLEXes, the next CCP announces "accounting malpractice" and loses sixty percent of its books. Or maybe it will buy out SOE in 2014 instead. It's pretty weird how money works.

The best that can happen is that I'm flat-out wrong in my personal Dust prediction and then you can make fun of me while I cover my face with one of those black bars you get in Japanese pornos, and the worst thing that can happen is that you're gonna have to join my WoW guild.

The point is that CCP are also structuring Dust rather differently to other FPSMMOs.

1) It's free
2) So are the expansions
3) They've committed to long term support

I don't know man, Planetside's pretty old. And like I said, we don't know what goes on behind closed scenes in the corporate world, but one of the things that stuck in business school was how everyone generally agreed that the moves happen before the public knows about them. It happens in-game too. Bought any ice within the past few years?

These are all "long term growth" enablers.

So in a year, when there are Dust Bunnies with ~30m SP or in 2 years with ~60m do you think the game will be more inviting or less inviting to new players?

If you don't know, look it up.

Dust was teased in 2009; demoed on a xbox devkit in early 2011 and revealed as console-only at the same time; declined by Microsoft later in the year and turned PS3-only (which is not the asme as PS3-exclusive). Claiming that Sony somehow made it console exclusive before it even became PS3-only is rather silly.

About the same, just like in EVE (and PS/PS2).

My point was an FPS is different than EVE, also PS1's cert system isn't really comparable.

As in, you can't apply a long-term growth model to an FPS, PS2 doesn't have a long term growth model (especially not compared to DUST's start with 2000 work your way up).

Neither of us owns enough stock in either company to make any of our claims with a moderate degree of objectivity. You can call it snake oil, but to me, taking three years off each date would roughly approximate when the decisions were actually made. I doubt Microsoft turned anyone down, because CCP went into the bid process already knowing the outcome since you don't need to be a Wall Street insider to know about Microsoft's third party content development protocols.

Maybe in a year or two we can ask Daniel Loeb what really happened?

My point was an FPS is different than EVE, also PS1's cert system isn't really comparable.

Neither of us owns enough stock in either company to make any of our claims with a moderate degree of objectivity.

Sure they are. Both systems are designed around the concept that older Gëá better. Both use breadth and variety rather than depth and GÇ£powerGÇ¥. That's the fun thing: you're confusing EVE with other MMOs GÇö your logic about how newbies might feel would be correct if either EVE or Dust work like ye olde D&D-foundation class/level system. Neither do, which is why there's no reason (other than misconceptions) for the game to be less inviting to new players as the older players keep accumulating SP.

And then it will repay eve through its symbiotic relationship.

GǪwhich makes a lot of sense seeing as how the decision not to make a PC version was made long before it Sony had any say in the matter and since they don't have any say in the matter after the fact either. Wait what?

How do you reach EVE's amount of accounts in a game where you can't multibox?..

Sorry, had to do it.

because every news and agreements see the public immediately and not after they made some effect.

Come on Tippia, you can do better than "it's in the bible." Did the lack of bears whining about evil gankers make you lose your edge? I've been gone for a while so I don't really know what's going on with you people anymore.

While we're at it, nice to see you back.

Erm, off-topic? What's off-topic?

The point is that CCP are also structuring Dust rather differently to other FPSMMOs.

1) It's free
2) So are the expansions
3) They've committed to long term support

These are all "long term growth" enablers. I'm not saying that it's a lock, I'm just saying that the traditional barriers to long term growth are not present. If the market is ready for a long term accretive growth model FPSMMO, DUST is in place to to reap the rewards. If not, then it won't. But right know we just don't know, because it's never been seriously tried before.

I definitely don't believe CCP "can do no wrong" - in fact the DUST team are rediscovering quite a few learnings that the EVE team have slowly and painfully acquired over the last 5 years - but I do give them full marks for actually trying to do something new and different in their game model, and giving Joe Console credit for not just wanting to dowload Call Of Duty: Black Ops: Space Marines vs Toy Story: Wallet **** Edition

I know EvE Online started small, but all MMOs start small. Dust is a MMOFPS thing. Without the EvE link (which is keeping it alive, the eve players) it would be another FPS. The console market doesn't care about community or earning isk. They want fast mindless games.

Indeed. It also goes a long way to prove my theory that if a person has no real major problems in their life, they turn minor problems into major ones to compensate.

...it could just be the limited information a pleb like myself has access to...

...CCP knew what the results would be before they even tried since I really doubt it was the first time anyone approached Microsoft with a similar idea.

Aside from the weapon choices and the upgrade customisation, the game is essentially halo with less maps.

All my own opinion of course.

Speaking as a non-FPS person here (my encounters in the FPS area was some minor Blood and Quake3 Arena 10 years ago). Since then I've not played any FPS, never tried CS, CoD, MW, BF or similar.

They do listen to the players, just as they do and did in EVE, I've seen many times in EVE were it feels like they don't listen and other times when they are sitting in your lap listening. Plus the fact that we've only been in beta until today makes the call of death even harder.

Aye, it could just be at the beginning of its growth.

Aye, it could just be at the beginning of its growth.

7.-áUse of profanity is prohibited.The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.

Has the number of dust players currently on-line. And in general its about one tenth the number of eve players on line.

Does this mean dust is 1/10th as popular as eve? .

Dust is here to stay for the time being and it's CCP's attempt to expand on EVE in a way that hasn't been done before. Whether it succeeds or not is one thing but the insignificant whiners seem to simply refuse to appreciate the fact that CCP is trying something that has never been done before. Then again I hardly expect said people to ever get a Nobel price in anything that has to do with innovation because clearly that seems to be frowned upon.

It is common knowledge, and fairly simple information to find, that Microsoft was not keen on allowing DUST to operate on or link to an external server, that being Tranquility, just as it is fairly common knowledge that EA virtually had to blackmail Microsoft to get their own servers for Xbox 360 releases. I'm not sure what actually transpired back in the day, but I know that CCP did indeed go first to the Xbox because it was the cheaper, more popular platform, and less technical to develop on. But when you make a claim like "CCP knew" and acknowledge in the same spiel that you only have limited information, it's almost as if you're not even listening to yourself.

and fyi DUST broke it's Uprising PCU - close to breaking 5,000 atm.

10% of the players... yet what percentage of developer time & effort?

I think I see the real problem here.

"Bet everything on Red!"

It was stated that Microsoft's Policy regarding XBOX LIVE is that it not connect to the same network as PC Games.

I just noticed that

http://eve-offline.net/

Has the number of dust players currently on-line. And in general its about one tenth the number of eve players on line.

Does this mean dust is 1/10th as popular as eve? I am guessing no. Dust players tend not to be on-line as long as eve players. Also as its F2P many do not play as often. But my guess is the total number of Dust players who are active at least once a week is still less than eve players.

I wonder how the revenue stacks up......

I wonder what EVE would be like if they had developed it instead of DUST and WoD

I just noticed that

http://eve-offline.net/

Has the number of dust players currently on-line. And in general its about one tenth the number of eve players on line.

Does this mean dust is 1/10th as popular as eve? I am guessing no. Dust players tend not to be on-line as long as eve players. Also as its F2P many do not play as often. But my guess is the total number of Dust players who are active at least once a week is still less than eve players.

I wonder how the revenue stacks up......

and fyi DUST broke it's Uprising PCU - close to breaking 5,000 atm.

the new game mode they added Domination is hell of alot of fun, PC and the game went live (out of beta) and it clearly drew in the people last night, Peaking at 5,200 1am GMT ish.