"Lastly, to fly with an alliance in the Alliance Tournament XI you will need to have been a member of that alliance from downtime this morning, at 11:00 UTC May 15th."

Screwing over a lot of SCL pilots here, might as well save yourself the trouble of organizing a tournie and give the prize to PL.

Just saying that giving some notice on when pilots have to be in an alliance by would allow pilots who have been flying together in the SCL the chance to join an alliance together.

I really can't see anyone outside the SCL regulars putting on a good show, by locking out a lot of the better SCL pilots, apart from PL, it's going to create a rather dull and one sided tournament.

I've never actually participated in the SCL, btw, I want an interesting tournament full of the best pilots.

Keep in mind that we will hopefully do another New Eden Open which will be team based, there the SCL teams can fly together without any problems. The Alliance Tournament is meant to pit in game alliances against each other to see who emerges victorious, not to pit makeshift alliances formed just for the tournament together to see which team is the best.

With that being said, there is some merit to what you are saying and I expect fringe cases where players might have briefly left an alliance for some reason. The amount of these cases and the impact they have will of course be monitored.

Why this deadline? It doesnGÇÿt make sense at all. Interested people should have a chance to join an alliance for this tournament. I would have liked to participate again (like last year), but now IGÇÿm out

"Lastly, to fly with an alliance in the Alliance Tournament XI you will need to have been a member of that alliance from downtime this morning, at 11:00 UTC May 15th."

Screwing over a lot of SCL pilots here, might as well save yourself the trouble of organizing a tournie and give the prize to PL.

The problem is, I know of many older players who only still play eve because of the unique gaming experience that the Alliance Tournament provides.

This is just a terrible shame and 1 weeks notice would have been nice from a player perspective.

Lastly, to fly with an alliance in the Alliance Tournament XI you will need to have been a member of that alliance from downtime this morning, at 11:00 UTC May 15th.

You did have a chance, TQ has been up and running for 10 years. You can join an alliance for ATXII right now if you like.

Keep in mind that we will hopefully do another New Eden Open which will be team based, there the SCL teams can fly together without any problems. The Alliance Tournament is meant to pit in game alliances against each other to see who emerges victorious, not to pit makeshift alliances formed just for the tournament together to see which team is the best.

With that being said, there is some merit to what you are saying and I expect fringe cases where players might have briefly left an alliance for some reason. The amount of these cases and the impact they have will of course be monitored.

Yeah, funny. This is not about a single pilot joining "an alliance" in time, but a whole corp that has not been part due to technical reasons. I am sure you are aware that some alliances use neutral Trade/Hauler/Warfare whatever corps?
We could not join because we could not play properly then.

Yeah, funny. This is not about a single pilot joining "an alliance" in time, but a whole corp that has not been part due to technical reasons. I am sure you are aware that some alliances use neutral Trade/Hauler/Warfare whatever corps?
We could not join because we could not play properly then.

The thought occured to me that this cut-off was to prevent "B teams". Does it mean that Red and Blue can enter separate teams then as we are separate alliances. A purple team is our preference and to be fair we are a single entity but if that's the only way for us to get the people who have already been practicing for months to fly in the AT we may do that.

Lastly, to fly with an alliance in the Alliance Tournament XI you will need to have been a member of that alliance from downtime this morning, at 11:00 UTC May 15th.

Should I even bother petitioning ?
It sounds like you designed this rules change (with no warning) specifically to keep me from flying on the team I've been captain of in 10 previous CCP tournaments.

just because one of my chars is in PL most of the time doesn't make it my home alliance

Should I even bother petitioning ?
It sounds like you designed this rules change (with no warning) specifically to keep me from flying on the team I've been captain of in 10 previous CCP tournaments.

Surely that's the definition of your home alliance - the place where you spend most of your time...

You seem slightly distressed by this.

Most of my characters are in Dystopia, the alliance I actually own and run.

why didn't you just post "u mad ?"

Our default position would be for you to enter multiple teams as you are multiple alliances, however we will consider requests for exceptions in special circumstances.

We want to enable all pilots in EVE who want to represent their home entity, and we'll do what we can to fairly allow people to do that in good faith.

If RvB fields two teams, at least half of the members of each team will be the alts of the other. I assume you don't want that.

why didn't you just post "u mad ?"

If RvB fields two teams, at least half of the members of each team will be the alts of the other. I assume you don't want that.

But sure do it, if rules are same as last year, you will be ban -2 teams on the field. So please do it !

Wow, what a threat !! Sure they are shaking at CCP now...
But sure do it, if rules are same as last year, you will be ban -2 teams on the field. So please do it !

Maybe if I only had one account.

My home alliance is Dystopia, just because one of my chars is in PL most of the time doesn't make it my home alliance, nor have I ever had anything to do with their AT, NEO or SCL teams.

Most of my characters are in Dystopia, the alliance I actually own and run.
But hey if you guys just made this rules change to be dicks which is what it sounds like there won't be a Tyrrax on team Tyrrax.

Our default position would be for you to enter multiple teams as you are multiple alliances, however we will consider requests for exceptions in special circumstances.

We want to enable all pilots in EVE who want to represent their home entity, and we'll do what we can to fairly allow people to do that in good faith.

While I understand the reasoning behind no warning given, it does give AT XI a rather cheap flavour compared to past few ATs, which have been about assembling the absolute best team for the grandest tournament of the year.

Also how do I send this petition?

Wait, maybe I don't understand something correctly.

If most of your characters are in Dystopia... as of this moment ... why can't you fly for them (with those chars)?
I think I am not getting something.

Maybe they don't have the necessary skills ready or he just doesn't want to fly for a losing team :P

Well, this *IS* supposed to be the Alliance Tournament -- and as such, giving no notice and excluding the old "AT-only Alliance" crowd to be honest shouldn't be such a big deal today.

It USED to be a big deal because AT was the only competitive esport around for EVE -- but with NEO, SCL and FF Tourneys already on the roster, isn't it about time the Alliance Tournament once again became about, you know, alliances we know from EVE TQ competing against each others and less about ~12 man real life friends who make up an alliance for the tournament that exists 2 months of the year?

NEO has brilliant price pool and format to help the informal friends compete and OWN, SCL has started up really strong and SCL3 was a massively competitive and entertaining format of the same. And btw, it runs every month.

So Dystopia is the alliance he most identifies with and flies with most of the time, but he only lends them his good characters every now and again?

It is not THAT easy. Believe me, I have tried.
The first NEO had a 20 PLEX minimum price tag on it, which is difficult to sell to your members "just to get blown up by PL once in round 1".
The SCL is great, but they do have a very limited number of slots. And many of the teams competing there are also composed of some of the big alliances that happen to be the home of quite some of the finest pilots in the New Eden Cluster.
And the FF tourneys... I might also have tried these, but then.. suddenly... no more tickets.
So in fact, for a smaller team without infinite budget, the Alliance Tournament is the only viable opportunity to get into that type of competitive sports environment.

When will we find out how/when to enter the alliance in the tournament? With the Odyssey rebalence and new ship additions when will we find out the point worth of each ship? Also, how many points will we be allowed for the group play and then for the rest of the tournament?

In other words, can you make a devblog with all the important stuff please?

Should I even bother petitioning ?
It sounds like you designed this rules change (with no warning) specifically to keep me from flying on the team I've been captain of in 10 previous CCP tournaments.

with wanting to continue using the the character people associate the most with my teams

I have good characters in Dystopia, not sure why you seem to think all my good ones are elsewhere

so one doesn't always use the same one for every match

doesn't mean I should be forced to use one of them over this one.

Previously CCP gave you advance notice so people could move their chars around, they didn't give any warning that they were going to be dicks about it this time,

which will affect a great many teams, most of which are actually worth having in the tournament.

It is not THAT easy. Believe me, I have tried.
The first NEO had a 20 PLEX minimum price tag on it, which is difficult to sell to your members "just to get blown up by PL once in round 1".
The SCL is great, but they do have a very limited number of slots. And many of the teams competing there are also composed of some of the big alliances that happen to be the home of quite some of the finest pilots in the New Eden Cluster.
And the FF tourneys... I might also have tried these, but then.. suddenly... no more tickets.
So in fact, for a smaller team without infinite budget, the Alliance Tournament is the only viable opportunity to get into that type of competitive sports environment.

Can someone please explain why the cut off for creating an alliance was before the time of the dev blog.

Can someone please explain why the cut off for creating an alliance was before the time of the dev blog.

It's already been discussed and explained several times already. CCP wants players to represent the alliance they are members of, not makeshift alliances created specifically to form a team for the alliance tournament.

Then why couldn't they have made the rule something like 'You need to have been a member of your alliance for 6 months to be eligible' and told us 6 months and a week ago ?

No that's what the New Eden Open is for - assembling the best team.

The Alliance Tournament is about proving which _alliance_ is best at PvP... (hint the clue is in the name - "Alliance Tournament")

you don't have a problem.

Actually if all these players have the same attitude, and sense of entitlement that you have, then to be honest, I think the tournament will be all the better for it.

Sorry - are you an alliance? I can name the alliances that won the _ALLIANCE_ tournament in the past... Don't recall any individual players winning the _ALLIANCE_ tournament.

But at least those people would have been making a decision between being eligible or switching corps/alliances. Nobody would have been excluded without knowing what was going on. This method just screws over people who had no idea that this rule was going to be implemented.

But that would defeat the entire point of the rule?

The idea is that people aren't make a decision to join an alliance based on alliance tournament eligibility.

(unless that alliance is actually your "home alliance", in which case they'll consider allowing it if you submit a petition)

take it as you like, CCP
but it is Teams who wins
not an Alliances behind this teams.

and today you screwed many teams

That's just your ignorant and very biased opinion, sounds like you haven't even seen one of these before ? Tourneys in the past have almost always been better for having my teams competing, same with other tournament veterans who will be excluded by this rule like DHB Wildcat.

But hey at least this rule makes it easier for PL to finally reclaim its tourney throne ;P

Lastly, to fly with an alliance in the Alliance Tournament XI you will need to have been a member of that alliance from downtime this morning, at 11:00 UTC May 15th. Each alliance may only field one team.

Wow, I presume you fly battleships in the tournaments, so the ships are big enough to fit your ego in?

None of those are anywhere near as good as the alliance tournament , NEO was pretty much garbage and SCL is only really good as practise for the CCP tournaments so yes that isn't enough high level esports opportunities

Alliance Tournament is also the only one with prizes worth a significant amount.

But hey at least this rule makes it easier for PL to finally reclaim its tourney throne ;P

None of those are anywhere near as good as the alliance tournament , NEO was pretty much garbage and SCL is only really good as practise for the CCP tournaments so yes that isn't enough high level esports opportunities

Alliance Tournament is also the only one with prizes worth a significant amount.

But hey at least this rule makes it easier for PL to finally reclaim its tourney throne ;P

How do you determine "good"? I considered SCL #3 probably the most competitive EVE esports even I've ever watched so far. Is that not a definition of "good"?

Or are you talking about price pool? Is NEO (in theory) with a 10,000$ cash pool + other stuff not better for small teams? And as such "good" for the hebrew inclined among us?

Or are you talking about exposure/viewership? I agree in that sense Alliance Tournament is indeed "good", but surely it's "good" because we are following our arch-enemies, our "friends" we love to see fail and our real friends we'd like to see succeed. Is it not better if people like SOLAR, Red Alliance, Goonswarm, TEST Alliance, etc etc etc are competing than let's say a new alliance called "Lord Commander John Snow Dies" which is made out of 20 160mil SP characters and only exists during the summer.

It seems like a very sound strategy to bring the "Alliance" back to the "Alliance Tournament" and put the exceptional teams to New Eden Open with team-oriented prices. And as you well know -- Pandemic Legion loses in every tournament, no matter of the format or people participating.

How do you determine "good"? I considered SCL #3 probably the most competitive EVE esports even I've ever watched so far. Is that not a definition of "good"?

So to sum up, people barred from competition due to stupid rule so far:

• DHB Wildcat
• Tyrrax Thorrk
• Perihelion Alliance
• People from RvB (possibly)

Anyone else I've forgotten?

my dota 2 premade games is competitive and intense too, but im not comparing it to The International.

i think that concerning the tournament, word "good" means that it has large viewership, good prize pool and challenge
i cant say that tournament is good if it has only one or two things of this list.

NEO online viewers count was lower than of avarage scrub dota2 stream with pudge hooking creeps. i cant call that a good tournament

This is The Alliance Tournament.

So to sum up, people barred from competition due to stupid rule so far:

• DHB Wildcat
• Tyrrax Thorrk
• Perihelion Alliance
• Various from RvB (possibly)

Anyone else I've forgotten?

Hey guys. The early cutoff was put in place because we intend the Alliance Tournament to be about people representing their alliances, whatever that alliance may be, instead of the kind of club-team system you see with the NEO or SCL (which help fill that need very well).

In cases where a corp or member are caught by surprise outside of *their* alliance for one reason or another, we can make exceptions to get them back in. What we don't want is people jumping from one alliance to another just for the tournament.

Look at it this way: that Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.

If you have a request for an exception, send a petition to the community queue and we'll take a look. But if you're trying to move from your home alliance to another one just for the tournament, I don't expect we'll grant those requests.

We aren't barred just messed about a bit, out of interest how is Perihelion affected?

o7
Drac

As an 8-year veteran of the game, I've been running and financing Perihelion as a bunch of my friends who want to participate in the tourney. I guess we're not "Alliance" enough for this tourney...

As an 8-year veteran of the game, I've been running and financing Perihelion as a bunch of my friends who want to participate in the tourney. I guess we're not "Alliance" enough for this tourney...

The point of the AT isn't to clog up the entries with shell alliances who only exist as a tournament team.

Edit: Whoops, I forgot that whining on the forums doesn't get teams back into tournaments.

Its a silly decision. When has the AT ever truly been about alliances? The entire alliance is never involved, except those made specifically for these events. Instead the alliances get volunteers and make up teams from their membership who then practice together for weeks to get ready for the competition.

1000+ man alliances aren't competing here, its just a tiny subset of them that do. I highly doubt that any alliance team just bring in any random scrub from their alliance to play in a match, unless they are desperate. Its disingenuous to say otherwise, and this rule is just silly.

also lol at Tyrrax's "I was important and relevant in 2005 so CCP should pander to my whims at every turn" routine.

Look at it this way: that Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.

Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.

That's a horrible RL example to use though.

How do you determine "good"? I considered SCL #3 probably the most competitive EVE esports even I've ever watched so far. Is that not a definition of "good"?

Or are you talking about price pool? Is NEO (in theory) with a 10,000$ cash pool + other stuff not better for small teams? And as such "good" for the hebrew inclined among us?

Or are you talking about exposure/viewership? I agree in that sense Alliance Tournament is indeed "good", but surely it's "good" because we are following our arch-enemies, our "friends" we love to see fail and our real friends we'd like to see succeed. Is it not better if people like SOLAR, Red Alliance, Goonswarm, TEST Alliance, etc etc etc are competing than let's say a new alliance called "Lord Commander Jon Snow Dies" which is made out of 20 160mil SP characters and only exists during the summer.

It seems like a very sound strategy to bring the "Alliance" back to the "Alliance Tournament" and put the exceptional teams to New Eden Open with team-oriented prices. And as you well know -- Pandemic Legion loses in every tournament, no matter of the format or people participating.

My home alliance is Dystopia, just because one of my chars is in PL most of the time doesn't make it my home alliance, nor have I ever had anything to do with their AT, NEO or SCL teams.

Most of my characters are in Dystopia, the alliance I actually own and run.
But hey if you guys just made this rules change to be dicks which is what it sounds like there won't be a Tyrrax on team Tyrrax.

this ^

its called ALLIANCE Tournament

In my opinion, this Tournament is not about EVE sports, this is a measuring d*cks sizes between the most active and prolific alliances in EVE to see who has the biggest one.

That's is why I watch this Tournament and I don't even bother or care about any other EVE Tournament.

So please, stop ruining this only moment of the year for us, players that are in an Alliance, that considers their home, that will fight for it until their last ship they have in the stations and stop crying and talk about pro sports and competitive teams and PVP **** for a moment, step back and look to the bigger picture:

this is about ALLIANCES brawling to see who has the biggest d*ck and that is it.

Hey guys, CCP Gargant and I have been keeping a close eye on the community petition queue and we have seen and considered every petition there so far. We're going to hold off on announcing most decisions so far until we have had a chance to discuss them with the wider team, but I wanted to make sure you all knew that we have not forgotten anyone.

I truly do appreciate you guys taking us all into consideration. If you don't mind, can you give us updates periodically on the petitions? Things like group meet today and discussed things, will meet again tommarrow. That way those of us, hoping will have some sort of updates from time to time.

There's probably nothing more important to do two weeks before an expansion.

the format will become a 1 - 2 - 1 type rather than the 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 that we saw in the NEO

Bans are done sequentially in alternating order. For example Team A will take the first ban, Team B will take the second ban, Team A will take the third ban and Team B will finish the banning phase with the fourth ban.

Can someone please explain why the cut off for creating an alliance was before the time of the dev blog.

Rather than crying about how unfair this is on the forums, why don't you just form up your fleets in your current alliance and do you best?

Stop complaining about how "unfair" this is, when it perfectly fair, and a far sight better than what has happened the the last couple ATs.

I won't fly with PL's AT team because I want to win with my own team - which I've been fielding since the first alliance tournament,

Also because PL was way too dominant in the alliance tournament when I originally joined them for some fun pew pew, woulda felt like a lame winning team joiner if I abandoned my old team to join theirs.



CCP had established a precedent of giving advance notice of when the cutoff date for membership was, this time they pulled the rug out from under everyone preparing for the tournament by not doing so.
There's nothing fair about it, so complaining about it is perfectly reasonable.

CCP should let us know before they make major changes to the tournament, hell maybe even discuss things with their players / CSM / participants.

I have removed some trolling from this thread.

Surprise, surprise...... The ex PL devs are putting in rules that guarantee a PL win in the tournament. GJ t-20 fozzie, GJ.

This is abuse of power, plain and simple.

So. Now that we've established that the chief complaint seems to be around viewership for "good" tournament, why do you think New Eden Open -- which is a very competitive TEAM BASED tournament with heavy weight teams such as "Goggle Wearing Internet Crime Fighters", "Blueballers" , "WhyDash" and "Expendables" so on competing for 10,000$ cash price didn't get those viewers?

Would it be a stretch to say it didn't get as many viewers because likes of TEST Alliance, Goonswarm, SOLAR, Red Alliance, Fatal Ascension, Northern Coalition., Nulli Secunda, RAZOR Alliance, etc etc etc weren't on roster and thus pulling their ~80k members to view their team fight against their friends/enemies/etc?

This is The Alliance Tournament. Not "Lets Make an Alliance for 2 Months Tournament", and while I have the greatest respect for competitive teams such as "Goggle Wearing Internet Crime Fighters" -- I tune in to view their teams in NEO/SCL. People who want to tune in to watch these great competitive teams will do so also.

But lets get real here -- people tune in to watch The Alliance Tournament because they expect to see their own alliance, their coalition and their enemies alliances get it on. Surely this new re-alignment and refocus is therefore fair and balanced for viewers and competition alike?

I received a response to my petition. I've always understood that discussing or sharing petition-based interactions with other players is considered not exactly kosher with CCP. CAStabouts is scrambling to determine our best path forward in light of your decisions. I need to know if I can share the response to my petition with my teammates so that we all have the same information/wording to work from going forward. I responded with a message in the petition system, but have not received a reply. Posting here in the hopes someone recognizes the need for timely feedback in one place or the other.

Always,

Boiglio

PS. I don't suppose there's any hope of additional point categories added to the tournament for things like "shopping in Jita", "combat probing", "manufacturing and research", or "organizing things into hangars"? Yeah, I didn't think so either. Ah well, never hurts to ask, right?

Hey guys, we've now responded to the petitions we received over the past few weeks.

FYI, The petition to see if my corp would still qualify for the Alliance Tournament has not been responded to.

Thanks,
Me

Your petition was responded to on 2013.05.22 14:03:00 by CCP Gargant.

Well written Stuff

Anyone who is not happy I am sure is more the welcome to field a team for the NEO.

How can you be talking about the future of NEO if the past one has not been closed properly yet?
I don't really see how it is going to develop with such an attitude.

As someone who placed in NEO..... I can say it was and still is a joke. Ive tried to be nice about it, but we are going on 6 months now without our prizes.

Why NEO wont / didnt succeed....

1) No prizes
2) Didnt even fill all the slots with teams
3) Too expensive

NEO is a joke with, so far, no rewards handed out.


Now a little tip for the smaller alliances getting ready to participate in this tourney. You are going to need a budget of over 100 billion isk. If you cant afford this, then you will get steamrolled, and tbh you'll just be wasting isk on entry fees. Most of this is going to come in implants that you will have to change out every fight depending on your set-ups. Also you'll have to have anywhere from 15-20 set-ups ready to go at any given time depending on the bans. You'll have to figure out how to attack and counter special edition ships.

I personally would have brought a cambion / etana / vangel / malice / adrestia to this tourney. I know others have more and are willing to use them as well. So gl to you all, and prepare for everything.

Have fun guys 07

Oh come now, let's get off bashing the NEO, quit being butthurt because an unforeseen circumstance caused a few issues when the tournament was over.

What "unforeseen circumstance" cause us waiting for 6 months for our T-shirts promised by CCP from the very beginning?

it's like you buy your fanfest HD stream pack and wait for the T-shirt going with it for 6 months, but no - you got it right away
You can't go away from E-sports activities in EVE being on the lowest of the lowest priorities for CCP.
Even ATs are held here not for its own sake but to make some action during "dead" summer season