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Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.14 20:11:00 - [1] I have a couple comments on the up coming changes and some questions for the devs if I may. First off, as an industrialist, I am very excited about most of the upcoming changes. Specifically: Project Rebirth, nerfing ganking setups, more ship HP and new skills for better armor and shield resists. The proposed changes to manufacturing I am not very excited about. Specifically, I have issues with the maximum production time of one week and the requirement to have all the minerals up front. Giving bonuses to manufacturing facilities on player owned stations and outposts is very cool from a role-play perspective, but may unbalance the market. There havenÆt been a lot of details shared on this, so we can reserve judgment. At the time the planned changes were announced, there were many concerns noted by various groups. In addition to taking all the minerals up front and the time limit on empire production, there are a lot of unanswered questions regarding the proposed queue system. A whole new method of waging war or griefing (depending on your point of view) seems possible. Is our interpretation of the proposed system correct? The other dev blogs have been stickied or are prominent in the forums, but I donÆt see the production changes thread. Has your proposal been altered per player feedback, was not giving the thread a sticky an oversight or am I just blind and missed the thread? I hope that the changes as proposed have been revised per player feedback. If they have, please share with us your new thoughts. If not, why didnÆt the outcry of EveÆs producers sway you? There seems to be a lot of room for compromise between the current system and the one as proposed in the blog. Granted some coding needs to be done for content reasons, but there are some less extreme proposals for helping with server load. Certainly the easiest would be to substantially increase the lot size on all ammo and module BPOs. ---------------------------- Since the Level 4 empire agent and missile nerfs, the price of minerals has been on the decline. Various theories abound (not listed in any particular order) including fewer wars, focus on new content including outposts and capital ships, freighters ruined everything the market, less demand for new ships due to fewer being ships lost in level 4 missions and an Eve economic recession. I am sure there are many contributing factors. Could you share some statistics with us on the market? Some ideas include: Volume of minerals sold on the market then and now Volume of ore mined then and now Number of battleships, battle cruisers and cruisers destroyed then and now Number of ships produced then and now Number of PvP kills then and now Number of NPC kills then and now Compare a few weeks before (totaled by week) with recent weeks. --- Natural Selection Works.
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.14 20:11:00 - [2] Lastly, I have a question about skill training. Why does the skill training stop after completing one level? Eve has a unique skill system. The requirement to baby-sit skill training while working on new skills with short timers makes no sense to me. Obviously, we donÆt want the skill training to be automatic, but a bit more automated makes a lot of sense. Two proposals include: When a skill level is trained, training continues automatically to the next skill level. Skill training would stop once level 5 is complete. Secondly, another idea would be to use a skill queue. This would obviously require GUI work to setup and maintain the queue. The system benefits new and old players alike, though it would be of greater utility to newer players since all of their skills have short timers. I donÆt see any reasons why this shouldnÆt be done, and given the number of times this sort of thing has been asked about, I would think it would be an simple task to implement option one and make a lot of players really happy! Obviously, this hasnÆt happened yet and I have yet to see a thread where a dev commented on this. Please share with us why this wasnÆt done in the first place and your reason for maintaining the current system despite repeated player inquiries. Thanks for your time. I have enjoyed immensely the recent dev interaction on the forums. NOTE: I donÆt want this thread to spiral into a debate on the topics presented. If you donÆt agree with me, start your own thread. --- Natural Selection Works.
F'nog	Posted - 2005.10.14 21:14:00 - [3] Originally by: Oz Draconis NOTE: I donÆt want this thread to spiral into a debate on the topics presented. If you donÆt agree with me, start your own thread. Then you probably shouldn't have posted on a DISCUSSION forum. If you don't want people to discuss your points, which have mostly already been aired and beaten to death in multiple threads all across the boards, don't post them on a public forum. This thread will not end well. Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
Dimitri Chandler	Posted - 2005.10.14 21:17:00 - [4] Edited by: Dimitri Chandler on 14/10/2005 21:17:31 Originally by: Oz Draconis NOTE: I donÆt want this thread to spiral into a debate on the topics presented. If you donÆt agree with me, start your own thread. Would you prefer it to spiral into the random flaming that is about to follow because you said something as stupid as that? -------------------------------------------------- "my gangsta limp is paid for by claims direct"
markol	Posted - 2005.10.14 22:05:00 - [5] I am wondering what is causing the mineral prices to drop as well. I am just now getting into mining after heavy combat specialization. I saw megacyte for 4300 just yesterday. Zydrine was selling for less than 4000. Something is wrong here. I have not seen numbers this low since I started playing almost 2 years ago - back when you could get trit for less than 1. I think that this is caused by peace throughout the land. There are no large scale wars going on right now. The north is quet. The south is fairly docile. All the combat is centered around people firing a TONN of ammunition at eachothers POS, too busy to shoot ships. Supply is also huge. Everybody and their mother (except me) has a mining barge trained up. That thing can suck roids like Paris Hilton going to work at a ball collector at a golf tournament with a garden hose. Freighters move the ore from any factory station to refinery and back. When you have a single freighter run equivalent to 80 Iteron V runs, that's considerable amount being moved. Here's a suggestion. Make trit available only in 0.0, and flood empire qith Zyd. See how the market likes that. About the skill queue. This has been asked about for ages. THis will not be implemented. THey want you to login as much as possible, even if it is to turn skills. Maybe you will login, see something cool and stay. More people stay. Game flourishes.
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.14 22:37:00 - [6] Edited by: Oz Draconis on 14/10/2005 22:44:42 Originally by: Dimitri Chandler Would you prefer it to spiral into the random flaming that is about to follow because you said something as stupid as that? LOL It was said with a wink. Debate or flames? A debate might not be as painful. Originally by: F'nog Then you probably shouldn't have posted on a DISCUSSION forum. If you don't want people to discuss your points, which have mostly already been aired and beaten to death in multiple threads all across the boards, don't post them on a public forum. Very true. However, if you happen to have a link for any dev input, which is what my post was seeking, then please post it. Otherwise, they are the unique group whose opinions and feedback I am seeking. As you said, everyone else has posted and beaten the subjects to death. Originally by: markol I am wondering what is causing the mineral prices to drop as well. I am just now getting into mining after heavy combat specialization. ... Supply is also huge. Everybody and their mother (except me) has a mining barge trained up. Somewhat reduced demand due to fewer ship losses and greater supply has my vote. You are correct about the barges. However, I personally wonder about the added influx of new players who have chosen to follow a mining career path. The vast majority of my mineral buy orders are filled a few thousand units at a time as if by younger miners who lack the capacity of a large hauler or mining barge. Originally by: markol About the skill queue. This has been asked about for ages. THis will not be implemented. THey want you to login as much as possible, even if it is to turn skills. Maybe you will login, see something cool and stay. More people stay. Game flourishes. You may be correct. However, if someone is logging in only to check skills, they really aren't playing Eve and I would argue that they aren't likely to stay anyway. I don't know anyone who hasn't been frustrated about lost skill training time because of RL or simply forgetting. It seems to be an easy addition that a large portion of the players would welcome. I know everyone won't, but I am very interested in what the devs think. For all I know it may be based on technical considerations like not having the database connected to the subscription database. You don't want people dropping their account for a month or two while they train Battleship 5 or some long capital ship skill. --- Natural Selection Works.
F'nog	Posted - 2005.10.14 23:29:00 - [7] The devs have stated repeatedly that queues will NEVER be in the game. Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.17 06:04:00 - [8] Well, we can agree on the fact that this is a popular request. However, I am still seeking the answer from the devs themselves rather than take someone's word for it. You see, the bigger question is: why? If this is a popular request from the players as people seem to agree that it is, then CCP must have a strong reason to leave it the skill training as is despite repeated requests for a queue. That is what I am seeking. If there are no strong reasons, then perhaps it is a subject that needs to be revisited by the devs and the player community. Either way, lots of players are looking for an answer. --- Natural Selection Works.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.10.17 06:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Oz Draconis Well, we can agree on the fact that this is a popular request. However, I am still seeking the answer from the devs themselves rather than take someone's word for it. You see, the bigger question is: why? If this is a popular request from the players as people seem to agree that it is, then CCP must have a strong reason to leave it the skill training as is despite repeated requests for a queue. That is what I am seeking. If there are no strong reasons, then perhaps it is a subject that needs to be revisited by the devs and the player community. Either way, lots of players are looking for an answer. Here you go then. Lack of a skill queue makes it harder for character farmers. Log in once, set 3 month skill queue and come back in 3 months. Sell character for ISK.
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.18 06:19:00 - [10] Edited by: Oz Draconis on 18/10/2005 06:22:13 Originally by: Deja Thoris Lack of a skill queue makes it harder for character farmers. Log in once, set 3 month skill queue and come back in 3 months. Sell character for ISK. Sorry, I am going to have to call crap on this one. There are over 70,000 subscriptions currently. Everyone one of us is looking to advance our skill set. All of us including your alleged character farmers log in and set skills. There is nothing in the current system to prevent someone from doing just as you suggested. Those that want to 'farm characters' can do it now. You are naive if you think that the current process couldn't be scripted. The notion that the devs are looking to prevent character farmers just doesnÆt hold water. Think it through. Someone is paying a subscription that doesnÆt log their pilot in to use their account. They only log in to change skills. CCP still collects full price on the account. This costs money and it canÆt be accelerated. Where is the incentive to do this? Want isk for cash you say? There are much quicker ways to get money via cash than trying to train up a pilot! Still looking for a dev response. --- Natural Selection Works.
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.19 06:38:00 - [11] bump --- Natural Selection Works.
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.24 06:38:00 - [12] Fanfest is over, how about some answer? --- Natural Selection Works.
Sokra	Posted - 2005.10.24 06:56:00 - [13] Edited by: Sokra on 24/10/2005 06:57:25 Skill training could be exploited with this proposal, start capitol ships level one, cancel your sub and come back 4 months later with renewing your sub and have capitol ships 5, as your current skill level keeps training even your sub ran out, no money for ccp during that time
Da'Kaharr Elderon	Posted - 2005.10.24 09:33:00 - [14] Regarding the recent price dropp in minerals, i have knoticed this also. Has anyone taken into account the recent influx of new players all mining ore?
Ante	Posted - 2005.10.24 09:42:00 - [15] CCP has said over and over again that skill queueing will NEVER happen. Please stop making new threads about it, it's getting old very quickly... far quicker than I am...
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.24 10:28:00 - [16] Just because you haven't seen them say it doesn't mean they haven't said it. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Hohenheim OfLight	Posted - 2005.10.24 10:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Ante CCP has said over and over again that skill queueing will NEVER happen. Please stop making new threads about it, it's getting old very quickly... far quicker than I am... yes but i have never seen them say it only players, It would be nice if they could say it them self's. If nes make a stick called "beaton to death" and but dev answers to all teh FAQ's in there.
Demarcus	Posted - 2005.10.24 10:40:00 - [18] Edited by: Demarcus on 24/10/2005 10:40:37 Quote: The proposed changes to manufacturing I am not very excited about. Wink Specifically, I have issues with the maximum production time of one week and the requirement to have all the minerals up front. Giving bonuses to manufacturing facilities on player owned stations and outposts is very cool from a role-play perspective, but may unbalance the market. There havenÆt been a lot of details shared on this, so we can reserve judgment. I think having more gear available in 0.0 will help push the prices down, which would in turn attract more people to those markets. That would actually balance the market not un-balance it. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Demarcus	Posted - 2005.10.24 10:44:00 - [19] Edited by: Demarcus on 24/10/2005 10:44:26 Originally by: Da'Kaharr Elderon Regarding the recent price dropp in minerals, i have knoticed this also. Has anyone taken into account the recent influx of new players all mining ore? Some if it may be attributed to more mission runners refining their loot instead of trying to see the items. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.10.24 11:17:00 - [20] Regarding a skill queue: Being able to queue just one (!) more skill would be enough. Then we could set one short skill and one long. If **** happens and you aren't able to login or just forget it, training would continue with the 2nd skill, e.g. battleship V or so. I would like that. 'What I write usually only refects my own opinions, not the ones of my corp.'
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.25 06:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight Originally by: Ante CCP has said over and over again that skill queueing will NEVER happen. Please stop making new threads about it, it's getting old very quickly... far quicker than I am... yes but i have never seen them say it only players, It would be nice if they could say it them self's. If nes make a stick called "beaton to death" and but dev answers to all teh FAQ's in there. My point exactly! --- Natural Selection Works.
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.26 13:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Oveur Additionally, China has a very low penetration of credit cards so simply paying for the game is a huge barrier. You require massive marketing, distribution and store/internet cafe partners to get scratch cards into the hands of the player. This has the side-effect on gameplay that you pay for hours played in China while we traditionally subscribe for the month regardless of how much you play. The new Chinese players are not going to be happy having to run down to the local Internet cafe because they forgot to train a longer skill. --- Natural Selection Works.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.10.26 13:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Oz Draconis The new Chinese players are not going to be happy having to run down to the local Internet cafe because they forgot to train a longer skill. Oh buhu to them. :P Over two years later, and it's not like massive character training catastrophes have happened here... winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Kerushi	Posted - 2005.10.26 13:22:00 - [24] note on the automatic skill training thingy when a person cancles an account, the skill set in training will finish if it would automaticly go to the next skill, u can learn, say bs skill, from 1 to 5 while the account isn`t active and reactivate for the next - training while not paying (in the current system)
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.31 07:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Kerushi note on the automatic skill training thingy when a person cancles an account, the skill set in training will finish if it would automaticly go to the next skill, u can learn, say bs skill, from 1 to 5 while the account isn`t active and reactivate for the next - training while not paying (in the current system) I hope this isn't the reason our skill system isn't more automated. Even if the two systems weren't even networked, a thumbdrive with the current list of active accounts going between systems would solve the problem. It wouldn't even need to be done daily. Even two or three times a week would suffice considering you can set Battleship 5 right now and let it train for 2 months. --- Natural Selection Works.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.10.31 09:14:00 - [26] can the devs or mods please transfer this thread to the ideas forum thanks or perhaps games development doesnt belong in general
Glaren	Posted - 2005.10.31 14:04:00 - [27] Perhaps a skill training queue could have a limit of 24 training hours. Thus not useful for exploitation of canceling & resubscribing but would be useful to new players. It would have helped me get up speed a little quicker. All of those 30min and 90min skills lead to a lot of wasted time, while I'm at work. Glaren Glaren
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.11.01 16:52:00 - [28] Originally by: sonofollo can the devs or mods please transfer this thread to the ideas forum thanks or perhaps games development doesnt belong in general How does a question about history and trends fit in the ideas forum? Questions about the manufacturing blog belong where? I think the forum is fine, we just need some dev input. --- Natural Selection Works.
Udat	Posted - 2005.11.01 17:12:00 - [29] Originally by: sonofollo can the devs or mods please transfer this thread to the ideas forum thanks or perhaps games development doesnt belong in general I concur. Alot of these issues are better discussed in the Game Development Forum. Forum Rules\|Email Us
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.11.07 23:59:00 - [30] Ahem. --- Natural Selection Works.

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