| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kaeleron
   |
Posted - 2005.10.15 20:38:00 -
[1]
Consider it a search for enlightenment. I would like to know proof of God's Existance from an Amarr, or any other standpoint. I do hope that all the replies are constructive and as objective as can be. Anyone familiar with any previous works of mine should understand that I am not looking to turn this into a battle of egoes.
Thank you.
Kaeleron
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
psychonaut
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 20:44:00 -
[2]
As you dont have god no proof is needed.
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 20:52:00 -
[3]
Not very contructive to say the least. As to whether I have a god is something you have no personal knowledge on. Since I cannot Remove such a reply I do ask that others not follow in your example.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
psychonaut
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 21:00:00 -
[4]
We dont need to proove anything to scum like yourself - The fact I reply is proof enough for you now begone.
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 21:10:00 -
[5]
Begone? You came here of your own volition sir. No one forced a reply from you? You seek to attack me of your own choice. I am not looking to confirm or disprove your beleifs. Nor have I ever spoke ill of the Amarr or Khanid. If you wish to share your opinions on the I welcome the chance to hear them. If you seek to make me uncomfortable I must say I have been called worst names by better people.
I am asking of interest and of an open mind not to foist my veiws or opinions on anyone. Have a good day sir and I hope that you continue to prosper in your endevours.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Pulgor
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 21:30:00 -
[6]
There is no proof, which is why it's called "Faith."
Silly Kaeleron.
-----------------------------------
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 21:35:00 -
[7]
Indeed Pulgor, but all Faiths have "proofs". Fundamental points to base a faith from. Catlysts the lead to believing. Im not looking for concrete physical evidence. I am more interested in the driving force of faith. I apologize if I am being vague I will try to be more precise as the discussion develops.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Pulgor
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 21:54:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Kaeleron
Indeed Pulgor, but all Faiths have "proofs". Fundamental points to base a faith from. Catlysts the lead to believing. Im not looking for concrete physical evidence. I am more interested in the driving force of faith. I apologize if I am being vague I will try to be more precise as the discussion develops.
Most Amarr faith is derived from the scriptures.
-----------------------------------
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 21:57:00 -
[9]
That is good to know, now I shall await and see if anyone will step forward with such knowledge to share. Thank you for your constructive input.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Tsual
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 23:04:00 -
[10]
Faith needs no proof and logic will find no proof.
--------------------------------------
Haanem ulwei, utnazhiram Hal'sha'roh mahiraam Hor'thul.
The Universe is everything, the creation Hal'shah and the destruction Hor'thul.
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.15 23:19:00 -
[11]
I never knew it would be so difficult to answer this question. So Be it, Thank you all for you time.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Archbishop
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 00:00:00 -
[12]
The holy scriptures have been handed down to us by the ancient Amarrians and show us the true nature and meaning of God. It is faith only that we know God has faith in us to obey His will and carry out His decrees and the decrees of our holy Emperor.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 00:16:00 -
[13]
A faith that you are supposed to use to help everyone to salvation . . . but you cannot tell anyone about?
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Kaleigh Doyle
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 01:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kaeleron
Consider it a search for enlightenment. I would like to know proof of God's Existance from an Amarr, or any other standpoint. I do hope that all the replies are constructive and as objective as can be. Anyone familiar with any previous works of mine should understand that I am not looking to turn this into a battle of egoes.
Kinda silly question there Kael, no offense. How do you prove you're feeling happy or sad? How do you prove an idea? If someone believes in it, it simply is.
Besides, the existence of a higher power isn't what's important, it's what their followers do in his/her name that is. Or, that's my take on it anyway.
Ooops, was I supposed to be a heathen sinner? 
|
Kehmor
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 01:32:00 -
[15]
God is considered to be he who is greater than any other, perfection. Existance is an attribute of perfection therefore God exists by deffinition.
There is also proof through creation. If you stumbled across a watch in the wilderness you can instinctively tell it has been designed, it is too precise to be a random occurance. Such is the nature of the universe, it is too intricate to have occured naturely. Therefore there must have been a creator, IE God
|
Tsual
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 01:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
Ooops, was I supposed to be a heathen sinner?
Miss, your always a sin to look at and a heresy to not. 
However, don't take that too serious, just an ol'grumpy miner that couldn't resist.
--------------------------------------
Haanem ulwei, utnazhiram Hal'sha'roh mahiraam Hor'thul.
The Universe is everything, the creation Hal'shah and the destruction Hor'thul.
|
Karn Mithralia
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 01:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Pulgor
There is no proof, which is why it's called "Faith."
That all depends on how you define 'God'.
I read your question Kaeleron and immediately thought something needed be said on this much bandied around term - God. Reading Pulgors reply and those after convinced me of this.
As I understand the Amarr belief - yes there is no proof, it is all faith. And thus potentialy dangerous, bigoted, and destructive because of it. I'm of the opinion it's this purposeful self-deceit that allows the Amarr to treat their fellow humanity with such brutality and disregard.
However there are many ways to understand the term God and many ways to approach the spirit that that term so poorly defines. I am firmly of the opinion that God, as in the childish sense of that anthromorphic father-figure on high, doesn't exist - thus the need for faith if you pursue that belief. But that is a far cry from the reality we can all percieve if we will it, and thus prove exists if we choose to make the experiments.
It is a fact that anyone who makes the effort to contact .. hmmm .. let us say, disincarnate intelligences, can do so, this is ample proof they exist. The question and much debated outcome of this is - what is their nature?
To me this is less relevent to the topic at hand, and highly personal. We tend to see these things thru our own beliefs and modes of response to the unknown.
I was raised to understand that all modes of religous expression can bring the aspirant to enlightenment - to 'godhead'. Yet there are many dangers on the path. The more that path relies on faith and not proof, the greater the pitfalls. Often these pitfalls not only injure the believer, they also injure all those he or she has influence over. Thus my utter dislike for that now dead husk called the Emperor.
I was also raised to understand that no man needs anyone stand between him and the divine, indeed, ultimately we must cast off our priests and prophets, wisemen, sages and gaurdians of the divine, and stand naked before the face of being itself. Well, that is if we wish to truely know what this whole ball-game is about.
Me, I have no need for faith, yet I suspect my knowledge of the divine is at least equal to that of the most ardent believer with faith. When I make an offering to the gods of my ancestors I do so in the knowledge I am an incarnate being extending a communication to a discarnate being. I put no great faith or belief in the reality of that being, beyond that it exists purely by definition of me experiencing it.
Then there is what is perhaps best referred to as the All - some more thoughtful faithful call this God. But God hardly begins to describe It. We are all the All, it is All of existance, it creates all and destroys all. Naming it is futile beyond a certain point as it is greater than any part defined by a name. The only way to know of the All is to immerse yourself in it. My preferred method is deep meditation, brought about by pod-stasis, augmented bio-feeds and the sheer enormity of empty space.
And you know what, when I hit that 'place' there is nothing there. The All is No-thing.
-----------------------------------------
Here begins anew the rise of the NehÆbu kau BehÆHude |
Bokudo
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 02:34:00 -
[18]
-Program 269 active-
"No proof is needed, the theology council will beat that into you should you ask about it in amarr space."
-Program 269 closed-
-----------------------------------------------
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 04:15:00 -
[19]
Nevermind. Apparently no one knows their own faiths.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Gaven Lok'ri
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 04:49:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 16/10/2005 04:50:53
First it is important that to anyone but a theologian, there is no need of a 'proof' of God, as there is no need for proof if one has faith. That afterall is what the word FAITH means.
For one, it is impossible to prove the existance of a being you cannot by nature truely understand. Only by his unseen hand in everything can you actually prove his existance.
That said, there are many examples of his hand in the world. As has been said before: 'The knowledge of God's existence is naturally implanted in all things. Therefore God's existence is self-evident.'
I am going to give you a simple excersize I first found ina fragmented copy of an ancient tome.
"The first and most obvious way is based on the existence of motion. It is certain and in fact evident to our senses that some things in the world are moved. Everything that is moved, however, is moved by something else, for a thing cannot be moved unless that movement is potentially within it. A thing moves something else insofar as it actually exists, for to move something is simply to actualize what is potentially within that thing. Something can be led thus from potentiality to actuality only by something else which is already actualized. For example, a fire, which is actually hot, causes the change or motion whereby wood, which is potentially hot, becomes actually hot. Now it is impossible that something should be potentially and actually the same thing at the same time, although it could be potentially and actually different things. For example, what is actually hot cannot at the same moment be actually cold, although it can be actually hot and potentially cold. Therefore it is impossible that a thing could move itself, for that would involve simultaneously moving and being moved in the same respect. Thus whatever is moved must be moved by something, else, etc. This cannot go on to infinity, however, for if it did there would be no first mover and consequently no other movers, because these other movers are such only insofar as they are moved by a first mover. For example, a stick moves only because it is moved by the hand. Thus it is necessary to proceed back to some prime mover which is moved by nothing else, and this is what everyone means by "God."
This wise ancient ((OOC:St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica)) also mentions five other ways, unfortunately they were not legible in my copy, which was in the family library in bad condition.
But when you get down to it, a faithless man could argue that God's hand in the universe is not demonstrated by such ways, that it is merely coincidence this old theologian used to prove His existance.
Which is why the only example I could give you, was one that I had found in a musty part of the family library. Because God's existance isnt something that one Has to prove. God is something that just IS. He is in everything, He exists, because for Him not to exist nothing would or could exist.
If you look at anything in this universe, you see his hand at play. This is just the way it is; and those who are not blind can see it, while those who are blind to His grace look on Him and see nothing.
God is with us. |
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 04:58:00 -
[21]
Ahh the metaphysical explanation I was seeking. Thank you good sir for such Insightful Input. I will think on this point.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Jes Salvatore
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 06:28:00 -
[22]
surely St. Thomas Aquinas was a wise man for thinking of such a clever proof of God, but this is where his logic fails, movement is subjected to being percieved by ones senses, and our senses often feeds us incorrect information. i can surely dream a dream within a dream, and my sense would not even be aware. So question is how to prove anything is truely real while relying on the senses. the answer is you cannot....
but i do not want to disprove God existance, on the contrary, God very much so exists. But my argument lies along the line of how we learn and aquire knowledge. One learns by comparison. One knows something because of the revelatory light of something else. I namely speak of "Perfection". We do not know what is perfection but do have a concievable understanding of it. And as such we know that we are not perfect and the enviroment in which our bodies exist is inperfect as well. In order to have a definate definition of what imperfection is, one must have come in contact with some perfect which exists. because the mind does not come up with "ideas" of things the does not exists in one form. thus coming in contact with existant things can the mind come up with non-existant things. (such as monsters etc...) Furthermore, imperfection by definition is a negation of perfection, so unless there was something/someone "perfect" in existance, one couldn't possibly know that one is imperfect.
Now God, being the most High being concievable and being perfect, without beginning or end, must necessarily exist to be that revelatory light of knowledge and wisedom.
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Karn Mithralia
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 07:34:00 -
[23]
I am curious Kaeleron, why did you somewhat abruptly dismiss the discussion after I gave you a considered and personal view on the proof of God and the lack of need of faith, and then thanked the Amarr Lok'ri after he gave his?
I took the time to give that reply in good faith that it may enlighten you as you requested.
Did I in someway offend you, or provide an answer unpalatable, or incomprehensible? I admit I can talk in tongues at times but these things ain't easy to describe.
Or was it only the Amarr metaphysical view you sort?
-----------------------------------------
Here begins anew the rise of the NehÆbu kau BehÆHude |
Lianhaun
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 10:40:00 -
[24]
Either you know that God exists, or you are clinging to hope and faith, which means you still doubt it in the end.
Personally I think everyone is an atheist unless they know God exists and have no doubt about it in their heart.
Scriptures, books, priests is all religion and has nothing to do with knowing God exists and is there.
|
Bokudo
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 13:28:00 -
[25]
-Program 269 active-
Originally by: Lianhaun
Either you know that God exists, or you are clinging to hope and faith, which means you still doubt it in the end.
Personally I think everyone is an atheist unless they know God exists and have no doubt about it in their heart.
Scriptures, books, priests is all religion and has nothing to do with knowing God exists and is there.
"For you're sake never enter the Amarr empire, you would not be well recieved."
"Now God does exist, I don't think many have doubt about that. Some non-Amarr may think he is something totally different to what we imagine him to be but that's what the reclaiming is for." *Bokudo smiles*
"However there is quite a sub culture growing within our empire that believes and is getting very frustrated by certain people using the word 'God' to do anything they please."
"I believe interesting times are ahead as more Amarr search or what God is to them and not the tyranical sermons of a few fat and very wealthy old men."
-Program 269 closed-
-----------------------------------------------
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 14:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
I am curious Kaeleron, why did you somewhat abruptly dismiss the discussion after I gave you a considered and personal view on the proof of God and the lack of need of faith, and then thanked the Amarr Lok'ri after he gave his?
I took the time to give that reply in good faith that it may enlighten you as you requested.
Did I in someway offend you, or provide an answer unpalatable, or incomprehensible? I admit I can talk in tongues at times but these things ain't easy to describe.
Or was it only the Amarr metaphysical view you sort?
I do Apologize sir, There were problems with my Galnet feed. I have read your reply and do feel your view is condusive to this discussion. In fact I will retract the statemnt so as to not cause any hinderance to free thought.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Xeneis Seabrin
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 15:50:00 -
[27]
True religion, as well as true knowledge of God, is derived from faith. Faith is solitary. To need any proof other than faith is to doubt. This being said, anyone who believes in God inevitably has some doubt at some point in their life, however...at the moment that you doubt, you are without faith...because True faith, the strongest faith, is blind.
Sir, I know you asked for contructive statements, so I will try to do alittle better here:
God does not ask us to prove His existance.
God does not seek our scientific excellence.
God asks us to have faith in Him.
For God to come into a form so that all peoples could easily beleive in Him, would require no faith. And God seeks our loyalty, so he longs for us to giveup trying to prove him...he asks us to do something that defies logic, something that for a logical, intelligent being is far harder that relying on facts, and evidence. He wants us to know; to understand, that even though we cannot see Him...we cannot touch Him....we cannot taste Him, smell Him, or measure Him in any way, that we have faith in Him, pure...strong...blind FAITH.
(I apologize if this does not appease you, or help you to understand the need to "let go" of your scientific mind. I can only pray that someday you will release your grasp on scientific proof....and just beleive.)
|
Lianhaun
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 16:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Bokudo
"For you're sake never enter the Amarr empire, you would not be well recieved."
I'm never well received in any empire, there is something unnerving about a armed lady without morales smiling brightly at everyone.
|
Soratah
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 18:58:00 -
[29]
God exists because the universe exists and people exist in the universe who believe in IT..
Although it's a logical fallacy, ask again whether god exists when the universe has been destroyed or nobody exists in it.
Regards
|
Karn Mithralia
|
Posted - 2005.10.16 23:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kaeleron
I do Apologize sir, There were problems with my Galnet feed. I have read your reply and do feel your view is condusive to this discussion. In fact I will retract the statemnt so as to not cause any hinderance to free thought.
Ahh, no worries. I appreciate the response and edit.
-----------------------------------------
Here begins anew the rise of the NehÆbu kau BehÆHude |
Gaius Kador
|
Posted - 2005.10.17 01:47:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Lianhaun
Originally by: Bokudo
"For you're sake never enter the Amarr empire, you would not be well recieved."
I'm never well received in any empire, there is something unnerving about a armed lady without morales smiling brightly at everyone.
Despite your inferior origins, Lady Lianhaun, your smile would be welcome in my company anytime.
That goes for the dry sarcasm of the Discoropration as well..
Strange does not describe it.
----------------------------------------------
Sic Transit Gloria |
Masu'di
|
Posted - 2005.10.17 12:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kaeleron
Consider it a search for enlightenment. I would like to know proof of God's Existance from an Amarr, or any other standpoint. I do hope that all the replies are constructive and as objective as can be. Anyone familiar with any previous works of mine should understand that I am not looking to turn this into a battle of egoes.
Thank you.
Kaeleron
proof denies faith and without faith God would be nothing
POS Drug Refinery |
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.17 13:00:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Maul Ghoul on 17/10/2005 13:12:23
Lord Kealeron,
Because you are out side the Empire and cannot be properly trained, I will just offer you some knowledge for you to follow up on.
Faith-
Is simply defined as ôbelieving in something that you have not personally seenö.
Now let me make this clear; Faith in God is NOT a ôblind faithö. God will build up your faith. He will give you the reasons to believe, as we say in seminary ôGod will reveal Himself to those who seek himö
Truth-
The Biblical and Scientific way to establish truth is ôThe Witnessö
In science a hypotheses (guess) is made and a result is predicted, a test is applied to see if it results in the predicted out come (it is witnessed). The test will be done again and again (to establish many witnesses) and the guess will move from theory, to one-day law.
If someone comes up to you and tells you of an ôeventö, you may or may not believe them. But if many witnesses come to you (especially if some are know by you to already be credible) then the ôeventö becomes established as truth.
Evidence for Faith and God-
God Himself will testify that He and His scriptures are true. We call it ômiraclesö
The stopping of time, the parting of seas, sending plagues, healing the sick, telling us of things to come, raising the dead and the many other miracles from God are not done to ôshow offö. They are done to testify that His words are true.
Again I say to you that we do not believe in a ôblind faithö. God tells us in His word through the prophets to ôCome (to Him), let us reason with one another.ö
He is a living and personal God and he will do miracles in your personal life to give you the faith and to testify that His word is true.
The prophets where not men and woman of great power who did amazing things. Quite the contrary, they where weak and frail. These prophet where preaching to the people something God told them to say. The miracles God preformed through them and around them was to testify that the prophetÆs words were true.
All creation pointes to its creator, science bares witness to God. Do not be fool by heathen high priests with their PhDÆs who invent theories that point away from God. In time all lies are show for what they are.
Remember Lord Kealeron; if you seek Him you will find Him.
|
Ollie Rundle
|
Posted - 2005.10.20 06:30:00 -
[34]
Ok. My CAS days involving research and experimental proofs were a while back - apologies if I make a conceptual error in the following.
Someone once told me you can't prove that something exists, you can only prove that a null hypothesis does or doesn't hold true.
ie, null hypothesis: god does not exist
What you do then is try and see whether you can gather enough proof to support that statement to a satisfactory outcome. And if your satisfaction interval (I think they called it a 'p' value) isn't significant than you've err ... gone about proving the opposite.
So would that work do you think? :)
PS: I tend to agree with those who have stated that faith and proof should never be something you try to mix
-= Diplomatic Liason =-
|
raVn666
|
Posted - 2005.10.20 08:35:00 -
[35]
There is no proof of God , because he dont exsist.
And I feel so sorry for the Amarr people . Without the faith of theyr god they would have been so disillutioned and weak.
The Diplomatic Biatch
raVn666
yeah yeah |
Fontez Gallinigher
|
Posted - 2005.10.20 08:50:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Fontez Gallinigher on 20/10/2005 08:56:21
I thought id let you know that, I am God and would like all your people to conquer everything you see and kill anyone who dosent agree with you and enslave those whome are diffrent. I forbid you from free thought, I forbid you to have a say or choice in worshipping me. I am the God of the Amarr and will be hurt if all arent forced to worship me.
Come on folks the Amarr religion is crap and all Amarrians who beleive this crap are just as naive and brainwashed as the people who think MR, Blaque will make a better president.
You cant convince an Amarr anything so why bother. let them live in there repressive society and worship there god who supposedly speaks through a have dead rotting corpse of an Emperor.
All I can say is when your wives sneak out at night to share some alone time with the Minmitar slaveboy, it shows how moral these heathens are. They speak of morals yet nothing about there culture is moral. The Amarr are chosen by noone, noone wants them.
P.S. If any slave heres this grab a gun and blast an Amarrian priest and show them what righteousness is. Go kill them all and let them burn in hell for there sins against humanity. They will all get what they deserve one day.
|
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.20 15:11:00 -
[37]
Mr. Rundle,
Actually, the ancient philosopher Rene Descarts tackled your argument. At one time he was required reading in the Universities. Obviously education standards were much higher back when I attended.
If you search, even your brutish Gallente federation should have his works. I would suggest to you that he would be a far better reference then your ôSomeoneö (your brother maybe? Or maybe one of your ôdrinking buddiesö)
You will find that you donÆt like his answers and you will be unable to over come his positions. So like most heathens, you simply will not read it.
Maul
The fact is this û God exists and all the ôproofö you seek is easily found.
I ask you all---
Can you prove the God does NOT exist?
|
Elsebeth Rhiannon
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 10:39:00 -
[38]
More interesting to me than whether God exist is the question that if the Amarr God exists, does he deserve our devotion and worship?
I will not bow down before someone who wants to take me a slave, threatens me with torture, and seeks to oppress me based on his superior power alone. It does not matter if he is a man, or a god, that tries this.
|
Haitchi Allamut
|
Posted - 2005.10.23 22:09:00 -
[39]
You can stop this now, Im right here!
|
Kesslar Znel
|
Posted - 2005.10.24 02:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jes Salvatore
surely St. Thomas Aquinas was a wise man for thinking of such a clever proof of God, but this is where his logic fails, movement is subjected to being percieved by ones senses, and our senses often feeds us incorrect information. i can surely dream a dream within a dream, and my sense would not even be aware. So question is how to prove anything is truely real while relying on the senses. the answer is you cannot....
Even if reality were to be a dream, something would have had to set that dream in motion. The mere existance of time (or the *illusion* of time) is sufficient to prove the existance of a prime-mover.
|
Azael Lightshade
|
Posted - 2005.10.24 06:54:00 -
[41]
Azael Lightshade smirks at the voices
Only the suffering seek faith in a word they could never understand.
XXX |
ScoRpS
|
Posted - 2005.10.24 12:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Azael Lightshade
Azael Lightshade smirks at the voices
Only the suffering seek faith in a word they could never understand.
Beautifully sums it all up, a great quote indeed. 
|
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.24 20:55:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Maul Ghoul on 24/10/2005 20:57:31
Originally by: Azael Lightshade
Only the suffering seek faith
Yes, very good point.
Originally by: Azael Lightshade
in a wor(l)d they could never understand.
No I donÆt agree. Those that suffer usually see the world for what is really is.
I find that the spoiled child is the one incapable of understanding the world around them.
|
Achak Hinto
|
Posted - 2005.10.25 05:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Maul Ghoul
No I donÆt agree. Those that suffer usually see the world for what is really is.
I find that the spoiled child is the one incapable of understanding the world around them.
... and I think few will disagree that we, the Matari, have suffered. Thank you for clarifying that we know the Truth.
|
Beringe
|
Posted - 2005.10.25 05:14:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Beringe on 25/10/2005 05:15:34
Any real scientist will tell you that you cannot prove anything (edit: without assumptions. We're not discussing mathematics here). All you can do is provide evidence to support something.
And if you can't conduct an experiment to test something, there is no way of procuring evidence.
Thus, whether or not god exists is unprovable.
Stop confusing theology with science.
-------------------------------------------
Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming. |
Branco
|
Posted - 2005.10.25 08:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Beringe
Stop confusing theology with science.
Dangerous indeed... and to darker paths it may lead us all.
Recruiting. |
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.25 09:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Branco
Originally by: Beringe
Stop confusing theology with science.
Dangerous indeed... and to darker paths it may lead us all.
Theology is the philosophical study of faith. In Philosophy one supports thier arguements with philosophical "proofs". Therefore the question is not to whether god does or does not exist scientifically, since by definition an omnipotent being would easily transcend any scientific confines put before it, but for beleives and not beleivers to put forth logically constructed philosophical arguments for or against the views of one another. The difference between one faithful to their ideals and the zealot is that the faithful will seek to enlighten through knowledge and defend through knowledge using violence to defend against such, whereas the zealot brings pain and death to serve their beleifs. It seems those who are against my endevours and see them as dangerous an blasphmous fear only that they may in fact understand their percieved enemy in ways they did not wish to or lack the competancy to place thier beleifs through a true conflict of wills. Regardless Fear has no place here.
--Because it cannot be seen does not mean it cannot exist. MJXII-- |
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.25 14:50:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Maul Ghoul on 25/10/2005 14:50:59
Originally by: Achak Hinto
... and I think few will disagree that we, the Matari, have suffered. Thank you for clarifying that we know the Truth.
Mr. Hinto,
If you know the truth way do you cling to a lie?
Let us look at the core believes of two competing societies.
The Amarr û ôMan is capable of good, but his nature is sinfulö.
The Gallente û ôMan is basically goodö
What have you seen?
What does history show to be true?
Here is another example-
The Amarr û ôThe highest calling of man is to serve one anotherö
The Gallente û ôThe highest calling of man is to be freeö
I have seen several of your transmissions, and I believe that you and those around you have suffered. You have a reason to hate us, but donÆt let your hate of the Amarr blind you to what you know to be true.
|
Jalenar Frost
|
Posted - 2005.10.26 04:47:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Jalenar Frost on 26/10/2005 04:48:38
Edited by: Jalenar Frost on 26/10/2005 04:48:19
Delusions... to be sure.
We are here and then we aren't. There is no life after death, nor a place we came from before here. When you die (truely), you are lost to the world and go no where else. Religion and it's accompanying "god(s)" were created to keep people in line by those who would rule them or their way of life.
You say that because you have faith you know that god exists. But I would pose this question... would you have faith in this "divine" being if no one had first "instructed" you in his existence, and told you of the ways you should act and how one should worship? Do you honestly think you would have come to believe that an omnipotent being watches over you day and night for all your life, along with all others... all on your own? I think not.
pfft....
Merely a tool of the ancients to enable to few to control the many. A long outdated tool that should have gone out of style with the age it was founded.
Faith is for the weak.
-----------------------------------------------
Nothing is predictable except the stupidity of the masses.
----------------------------------------------- |
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.26 14:06:00 -
[50]
Lady Frost,
You have made great claims, but by what proof do you base your belief system on? What evidence do you possess that leads to your outlandish conclusions?
The community of faith has offered you solid philosophical arguments to substantiate our claims (or at least to point you in the right direction). We have also offered common ground statements on the finding and establishing truth. And in return we receive a diatribe of hate.
By what point do you refute our claims? If you would offer an example, I promise that someone would be able to point out the ôflawö in your thinking.
Your only ôproofö that you seem to offer is that men have used religion to hurt other men.
I must inform you that man is a sinful, fallen, and wicked creature. If you study human history you will find that men have used every ôismö at his disposal to control and destroy. Communism, Darwinism, fascism, fundamentalism, liberalism, and many more have been used over and over again.
If you think about it you will see that these historical facts only reinforces our belief; ôman is sinful and needs to be savedö.
If your going to base your whole life and the ôafterlifeö on your belief that there is no ôafter lifeö. Then I suggest that you put vitocÆs inhaler down and find some evidence to support your claim.
|
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.26 14:41:00 -
[51]
I just wanted to address an inferred argument against God that IÆve seen repeated several times.
ôAmarr and slavery Vs Godö
We Amarr say we are superior, but not like the Darwinist who attempted to exterminate entire races because of their faith in evolution. We are superior because we know the truth. Knowledge of God and devotion to Him sets us apart; genetically we are very much the same as you. (Granted, a true Amarr is blessed because God gave the revelation of Himself to the Amarr first.) But God wants to save all people and make them His children. Meaning that you can be superior also.
ôYou can be like usö is the promise we make to all people. A slave race will one day be full citizens of the Empire with the entire blessing that it brings. We do not damn an entire race to forever be slaves as you have seen in other cultures. Do not judge us according to some heathen history. Judge us on our own.
Most importantly ---- Do not dismiss a belief in God because your society has demonized the Amarr Empire
|
Jalenar Frost
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 04:40:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Maul Ghoul
Edited by: Maul Ghoul on 26/10/2005 14:45:35
Lady Frost,
You have made great claims, but by what proof do you base your belief system on? What evidence do you possess that leads to your outlandish conclusions?
No... no hate intended. Merely a statement of my own beliefs... that your's are false. Your premise is true though. Man is capable of good, but is usually not when in practice.
Quote:
The community of faith has offered you solid philosophical arguments to substantiate our claims (or at least to point you in the right direction). We have also offered common ground statements on the finding and establishing truth. And in return we receive a diatribe of hate.
The belief of many isn't a substantiated argument. People on the old homeworld thought it was flat until they were eventually proven wrong.
Quote:
By what point do you refute our claims? If you would offer an example, I promise that someone would be able to point out the ôflawö in your thinking.
Your only ôproofö that you seem to offer is that men have used religion to hurt other men.
Man uses religion to Hurt or control other men. He has done so for as long as History can remember. He continues today. I give you the Amarr. Even barring the present, and only looking at ancient times, it is quite easy to accept the possibility and likelyhood that it was created as a tool as I have described. I believe the term that summed up what I'm saying is... "Divine right to Rule". Any times where it was not used to batter, and keep the common man in place can easily be explained by "man has the ability to do good" even though he usually does not do so.
Quote:
I must inform you that man is a sinful, fallen, and wicked creature. If you study human history you will find that men have used every ôismö at his disposal to control and destroy. Communism, Darwinism, fascism, fundamentalism, liberalism, and many more have been used over and over again.
I would like to remind you that Man also created all those "ism's", just as he did Religion. A tool like so many others you've listed.
Quote:
If you think about it you will see that these historical facts only reinforces our belief; ôman is sinful and needs to be savedö.
Assuming all that is true, and man does indeed need to be saved, why and how does that necessitate the exsistense of your... or any... god.
Quote:
If your going to base your whole life and the ôafterlifeö on your belief that there is no ôafter lifeö. Then I suggest that you put your vitocÆs inhaler down and find some evidence to support your claim.
Just as I believe Faith is for the weak, I believe Boosters are also, for the week. Keep your ad hominems to yourself.
I am not trying to prove anything. Simply sharing my ideas on the matter. However, I repeat, just because a majority chooses to have this belief, doesn't mean it's true. Many things that the common and uncommon man alike have believed through the ages and knew to be true as sure as he knew he existed, turned out to be false.
You ask me for proof but I have yet to see any proof contrary to my own beliefs. Fact is, neither of us have proof. You only have reasons to believe and have faith. No "proof". And it will remain this way for both you and me, as there can be no proof when speaking of something intangible and/or imaginary.
I would really like to believe there is some omnipotent omnisent being watching over the galaxy as it changes and manipulates itself, but I just can't let myself be so naive.
-----------------------------------------------
Nothing is predictable except the stupidity of the masses.
----------------------------------------------- |
Azael Lightshade
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 05:07:00 -
[53]
Ah superior are we? I donÆt recall giving you permission to speak on behalf of me. It is not wise to pretend to know what GOD wants. Sure you have plagued yourself in many writings and thought about the faith but your vision is flawed if you think you can speak for GOD. ItÆs a sin to spew such words without the holy light commanding. It doesnÆt negate the fact that your statement is true. ItÆs the fact that you yourself do not know if it is true today. Maybe it has changed or maybe it has stayed the same. Either way you shouldnÆt speak as if you know truly what GOD wants now. You surly would be stoned for that in my grasps.
Azael Lightshade chuckles loudly
All those who oppose the light will suffer in the long run. Your weakness as a soul will pay when your life comes to an end. I think itÆs rather funny people donÆt give it a chance. ItÆs like they rather devote their life to not trying because of one flawed inspiration. If you died tomorrow and everything the faithful Amarr believed in was true what then? Will you still deny the faith? The point is not to confuse your selves with facts and what is true and what isnÆt. No one truly knows and that is why it is faith but there is no reason to deny it. I would rather give something a chance before I die rather than make a mistake of not believing. ThatÆs if I was in your place. It could mean sufferable consequences in the long run. Which you would have made all for not thinking outside the box but what do you expect from such simple minds as mortals. Ignorance is not a gift you should hold high on your shoulders. Take a chance on something. Roll the diceà
XXX |
Azael Lightshade
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 05:11:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Just as I believe Faith is for the weak
You know whatÆs weak? Going into battle un-prepared. ThatÆs what you do when you under estimate your opponent. You open up a weakness for them to exploit and defeat you. When you die you will see this. You chose not to give it a chance therefore you chose to under estimate the faith in opening up an exploit to your defeat. ItÆs your choice and no one is forcing you. You only hurt yourself if youÆre wrong. If someone has faith and they find out theyÆre wrong. Then they have a better chance on the other side than you would have. All because you chose to deny something you couldnÆt prove.
XXX |
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 13:14:00 -
[55]
A young Ammarrian boy and his father walked together in a field on their plantation one warm summers day.
The boy looks up at his beloved father and asks in an unsure voice ôDad, how do you know that there is a God?ö
The father smiles warmly at his son and gently asks, ôHow do you know that there is wind?ö
The Boy stops and thinks for a moment, then stares back at his father with a confused look.
The Father again smiles at his son and answers his own question, ô You can not see, weigh, or measure the wind its self, but when you look to the trees you can see the effect of the wind upon them. You measure the effect of the wind on the world around you and it is the same with God.ö
Dear Lady Frost,
Faith is very personal. I can offer you philosophical arguments, and personal testimonies. I can point you to awesome writings by men and women of great intellect who sought to prove or disprove our Lord God. But in the end, I cannot build up your faith.
I challenged you because I feared for you. People make conclusions based upon little or no person study. So I hope that the question of all of eternity would be worth a little of your valuable time to investigate.
I will confidently tell you that of all the belief systems that man bases his life and sciencesÆ on, that ours is the only one to remain consistent and logical.
BUT WHO AM I ---- I am no one to you. You have no reason to believe my word or personal studies.
That is why you must look for yourself. The promise if God is this; ôIf you seek me, you will find me.ö
One good place to start is the scriptures, read their claims for yourself. I can see in your statements to me that you have some incorrect information.
For example-
ôThe world is flatö was not biblical teaching. In fact God revealed to one of His prophets the world was a sphere when His people were still a nomad culture living in tents.
The flat world belief came from the same culture that taught that our planet was the center of the solar system and that dead matter spontaneously generated into living matter (i.e. spoiled meat magically ôspontaneouslyö generates maggots).
All those theories were also adopted into our church for a short time. But were later show to be unbiblical. (A lesson to early church leaders that the Holy Scriptures are always to be consulted first, even in regards to scientific theories.)
I personally find it very funny that the Gellente and other Darwinist/evolutionist cultures still cling to spontaneous generation.
Anyway, my point to you is this; please be certain that the rock you stand upon will not crumble under your feet when you need it the most.
Respectfully,
Maul
|
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 13:54:00 -
[56]
No Azael, I speak in defense of the faithful. I speak TO someone like you.
If you want to know what God wants just read His word. You will find that He clearly states His desire for his people.
If you take the time to study the Holy Scriptures (which all the faithful are required to do) you will find that my word is in line with His teachings.
My mind is held captive by the very word of God, if you seek to claim that I am a heretic then use scripture to reveal my error.
But to do so Lord Lightshade, would mean you need to actually know scripture.
God gave us His word so that we could intimately know Him. I worship and serve what I know; what do you serve?
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 17:05:00 -
[57]
I thank you all for your sharing of views. It has been a most enlightening discussion and has revealed much on faith and beleifs. Though not religious, I am a rather spiritual and inflective individual. I am pleased that so many decided to share what insight on the subject they had. |
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 17:27:00 -
[58]
I believe in the almighty ISKs!
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Elthia
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 15:30:00 -
[59]
Religion is something that human beings have had since our beginnings. It's something inherent in the human mind - the ability to look up - at the sky, at the stars, at the universe - and say "Who made that? Where did it come from?"
Religion has the same roots that Science does, and shares many of the same attributes. The desire to explain the universe, to really understand why things are the way they are, is something everyone has to some extent.
Many of the scientific breakthroughs are aligning with much of our ancient religious thought. It does make one wonder if both, perhaps, might share in the ultimate "Truth"...
________________________________________________
Everyone has the right to be ignorant, if they should so choose.
But they should at least be given the choice. |
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 17:05:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Kaeleron on 28/10/2005 17:07:36
Elthia,
It seems you are saying that faith and religion is a human construct. It also seems you are saying that religion and science are paths to the same goal. It seems we have some common beleifs. We most likely may not share some also.
Science, Faith, and Philosophy are all paths to the same divine destination. Why then can humanity perceive this almost supernatural force that permeates all? A mystery that counfounds science, is simplified by faith, and is grappled with philosophy. The divinity we seek must be in ourselves already. God being the personification and manifestation of this inner divinity. One may say about the evil in the universe and people making others suffer. Has not God punished? One may say of voyerism, ****ography and moral laxity. Were we not born naturally enjoying our physical selves? One may say a single person has not the ability to do what God can. With our collective efforts can we not perform miracles of humanity or plagues of destruction?
A blind bishop, and blind philosopher, and a blind scientist were feeling for the first time a turret. The scientist felt the cold hard materials of it's construction and deduced that turrets must be cold an inert. The blind philosopher felt the printing of words across the side and realized the it was intricate and complex. The blind bishop felt the heat of the barrel as it fired and lost his hand. He decided it must be a wrathful creation of fire and heat. Three persons with their own iews on the same object beginning to argue over the limited understanding they have of such an object. To convinced they know the entirety to listen to their neighbor. God is much in this way. Many views and percpetions though none are whole. By finding the harmony of the parts intsead of focusing on the discrepancies one may find that the answer is almost too apparent to ignore. Humanity is divine. All have the capacity for suffering and healing. It is the balance that these create that is what I percieve as God. Through this all is possible. Through faith in one's own divinity questions can be answered.
It was only fair I share some of my spiritual veiwpoints in respect to those who shared their's with me. I am sure many do not agree and that is fine by me. Your path being different does not make it wrong. Nor does it make mine any less right. This opinon I feel for all humankind.
--He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression.-- |
Elthia
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 17:32:00 -
[61]
Hm... No, I don't believe it's a human construct, so much as a human trait. Religion, science, exploration, these are all attempts to learn things, satisfy curiosity. Human beings are curious by nature. We're driven to seek answers.
Religion and Science are both natural extensions of that, as different ways to seek the same goal.
________________________________________________
Everyone has the right to be ignorant, if they should so choose.
But they should at least be given the choice. |
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 17:51:00 -
[62]
Mr. Kaeleron and Lady Elthia,
Something for you to consider ----.
Religion and God-
God ordains religion but men create it. What God requires is for us to know and obey Him on a daily and personal level. He also knows that men need intuitions and accountability in order to form societies.
Religion can help facilitate a relationship with God and meet the need of a community.
BUT
Religion can also replace God and cause the devastation of that same society.
Remember that a religion is made up of sinful men trying to live up to a perfect standard (The Law of God). Thus when they fail; they acknowledge the sin and repent. So the church remains healthy and ôin GodsÆ wordö.
Now we all know that man in his sinfulness does not like to admit to his mistakes. So when a church or religion (its leaders) refuses to repent and devastates itself and those around it, we must remember that the church did not live up to God word.
Instead of blaming the church leaders.
ôThey should have obeyed God.ö
People blame God.
ôSee what that church did; there is no God.ö
I love The Amarr Empire. To me there is not a more beautiful sight in this universe then the light of a star reflecting off our golden fleets. I count myself truly blessed to be apart of Amarr history and culture. My emotions run deep and I am often moved to tears when I hear our heroic songs or our anthem being played. I would gladly lay down my life and all the wealth and honor of my house to defend the Empire.
With all that being said. It is God and His word that is my greatest treasure
Maul
|
Kit Duchane
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 18:05:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Kit Duchane on 28/10/2005 18:05:50
Kael, do you always think such deep thoughts?
|
Elthia
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 18:17:00 -
[64]
Indeed, Mr. Ghoul, on that we can agree. A religion should drive people to become greater than they are, not to justify themselves as they stand. Just as science should drive people to greater heights.
I do not share your religion, but I can appreciate its place in society, and in the minds and hearts of the people who live it.
________________________________________________
Everyone has the right to be ignorant, if they should so choose.
But they should at least be given the choice. |
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 18:18:00 -
[65]
Good Kaeleron, I would like to ask you a question about your theists on the 3 blind men.
Why do you care about the thoughts of the blind men when the Turret is the one with all the answers?
Your statements seem to imply a cold and aloof deity.
What if the Divine actively cares for you and wants to interact with you?
Please donÆt take me the wrong way; IÆm instead in why you believe what you do?
|
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 18:27:00 -
[66]
Lady Elthia, I very glad that we can find some common ground between us. Science and religion can be a blessing or a curse, depending on what men do with it.
I hope that we can also agree that both science and religion should be based on the truth.
Humbly,
Maul
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 19:56:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Kaeleron on 28/10/2005 19:57:40
No I fully agree divinity is not A human contruct. It is in my beleif the core of humanity itself. The personification of God is in fact a human construct. An attempt for the human mind to grasp what it knows to be true, but does not know why it is true. In response to further points it is not "He" who knows that men need institutions. It is in fact "We" who know this. Who know we must work together, Combine our inner strengths if you will, to make things better. Regardless of the outcome, this is the basic drive of soceities.
As for the turret it does not represent a cold an aloof deity it is a metaphor for concepts beyond the faculty of those perceiving the facts at hand. The turret does indeed have all the answers and does everything within its ability to represent itself in true form, but the blind men lack the ability to perceive the whole truth. A deity can be active and trying to communicate but there are things that are still far beyond the understanding of whom he communicates with. If that rift between the two entities did not exist then they would be of the same manner and therefore God would have a very different meaning. Instead some recieve different part of the same message. Only when the parts are combined can a true meaning be gained. With this paradox comes the conclusion. For humanity to understand the message they must already have within themselves the ability to learn or understand the message. Therefore they must have the divinity born within themselves to begin with. The blind men had the ability to learn and understand but not the will or enlightnment to listen to what was being presented to them. They created constructs to best explain what they perceived with their limited information on the true nature of the subject. The blind men underestimated one another's talents and veiws. Therefore each one was correct according to what they knew but far from the reality of truth. The turret inspired the one blind man, but caused great faer and pain in the other. Such is the divine duality of humanity. Humanity bring suffering to protect what it deems "better". Unfortunately with the blindness to not still their own passions and seek the truth. Humanity bring great blessing to that which is seen as "better". Without putting the pieces together "better" is an illusion that is only destined to cause tribulations and turmoil.
And yes I always think this deeply Kit.
--He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression.-- |
Elthia
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 21:28:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Maul Ghoul
I hope that we can also agree that both science and religion should be based on the truth.
Absolutely. If one is seeking the truth, one shouldn't simply walk away when one gets a tiny piece of it. And any assumptions that are made, whether they seem accurate or not, could be steps away from that. While we need those assumptions to live (going through life without them would be impossible), it is necessary to acknowledge them for what they are.
And yes, I definitely agree that both science and religion can be blessing or curse, depending on what's done with them.
________________________________________________
Everyone has the right to be ignorant, if they should so choose.
But they should at least be given the choice. |
Maul Ghoul
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 21:32:00 -
[69]
Kaeleron,
Good sir, again you offer a very well though out thesis. I do enjoy your writings, so please do not misinterpret my rebuttal.
The Divine is with in him, or if I may to put is in more of a crude manner, ôMan is godö.
Is this not the logical conclusion of you statements? Is this not, in your view, what we are trying to achieve --- to be gods?
You are extremely intelligent and you seem to have a noble spirit, but I have heard your words before. These are the words that the fallen used on us. ôYou can be like godö. It was the offer that caused us to doubt our Lords word and brought sickness and death to the race of man. It was the offer that lead us to lose paradise.
ôI can do it, I donÆt need Godö is the battle cry of every addict that remains out of recovery.
ôWe can create the perfect societyö is the sweet words of those that murder millions.
A beautiful lie that has been whispered in the dark since the beginning of time --ôWe/I can do it.ö
Is it not madness for a fish to say, ôI am a catö or a dog to say, ôI am a whaleö
Thus it is madness for a man to say, ôI am a Godö or öI can be like Godö
Leave being god to God.
In our view man is sinful so he cannot be trusted. That is why the ôWord of Godö is so important. We need something to measure everything we do by. Since our church leaders (although wise) are also sinful, we simply cannot just trust their personal word on the matter there needs, to be accountability. Thus a leaders ôwordsö has to be ôweighedö by the Word of God. Again I tell you this to point out that man cannot be trusted. Man can never be god.
I understand that unbelievers will claim that the Holy Scriptures were just written by men. But that my friend, is a debate for another time.
Maul
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.28 22:56:00 -
[70]
I, of course, am not saying for man to be God. I am saying for humanity to fufill their humanity. I am not saying man to be like God but to be like man. I am not saying abandon your beleifs in God. For your beleifs define how you understand the universe around you. You need to believe God is key as others hold other beleifs in higher value. The logical conclusion of my statements is to become more human than we currently are and begin to gain true insight into ourselves and abilities. You beleive man is sinful and misguided. It is true that they many do not know how to be more than they are, but sin is a limitation set from a limited understanding. Your holy scriptures were in fact penned by human hand most likely, but indeed the message was through divine manner of this I am certain. Those who penned your scriptures sensed the message and penned what they could understand. This however does not mean the whole picture is clear. It is but one piece of the truth interpreted by those who were able to understand what little they could. We cannot create a perfect society because perfection is an illusion. There is always infinite growth. I do not beleive in God in the way you see god. But I do beleive in the guidence and wisdom that force represents. I do beleive that humanity can feel that power omnipresent if they choose to listen. I do beleive that this force is not meant to make us "gods" as you say. But I do beleive that in order to feel this there must be something divine about humanity to begin with. Becoming sensitive to our inner strenthgs will only allow us to grow.
--He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression.-- |
Trevedian
|
Posted - 2005.10.29 14:06:00 -
[71]
Do Amarrians believe Virgins can have babies too?
Ahhh the opiate of the simple-minded Amarrian masses...
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.10.30 03:00:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Kaeleron on 30/10/2005 03:00:00
Originally by: Trevedian
Do Amarrians believe Virgins can have babies too?
Ahhh the opiate of the simple-minded Amarrian masses...
I am not sure who you are talking to or about?
--He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression.-- |
Kraven Dragonis
|
Posted - 2005.10.30 11:27:00 -
[73]
As a wise Minmatar once said God is what you make it to be. Is god an entity that helps you throe your life or is it something that we use to explain why were hear and how we became to be. Is it god that helps you past the pirate blockade or is it luck, for me i say to find the answer that can never be answered is foolish if you live you life the way you deem to be the right course then you may meet god at the end if not then hell at lest you lived your life.
|
Kraven Dragonis
|
Posted - 2005.10.30 11:27:00 -
[74]
As a wise Minmatar once said God is what you make it to be. Is god an entity that helps you throe your life or is it something that we use to explain why were hear and how we became to be. Is it god that helps you past the pirate blockade or is it luck, for me i say to find the answer that can never be answered is foolish if you live you life the way you deem to be the right course then you may meet god at the end if not then hell at lest you lived your life.
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.11.01 04:37:00 -
[75]
Quite Poetic. |
Lluthiunne Atalaron
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 14:22:00 -
[76]
i have read half the posts in this topic heres my 5p worth.
God is our creation and cannot exist without us. He is a belief that brings hope and order to our lifes.
I have read replies to this topic such as - 'the world is not perfect' 'god is perfect' etc.
The only realm the word perfect can be used is within a scientific capacity. 'The sphere is perfectly spherical'
It has no use in any other capacity. You cannot state that god is perfect for many reasons.
1:
My own sig, is this very true saying.
The mind is its own place and in itself can create a heaven of hell and a hell of heaven.
perfection can only be quantified by a scientific measurement otherwise it is open to interpretation one mans god is another mans devil.
2:
Omnipresence; god is everwhere and everything.
then god is also evil, has 'imperfect attributes'
I could go on and bore you all to death by giving a run through of why god doesnt exist but its besides the point. If you want to believe in god then all that is required is faith. You cannot disprove a mans faith in an almighty diety through logic and reason.
Its a simple question of faith. Do you believe?
I do not, but millions do. Such is the power of faith
|
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 17:22:00 -
[77]
God? Bah... humbug!!! The only G-O-D for me is the almighty ISKs. I can show you what you can do with the almighty ISKs. With loads and loads of ISKs, I can literally never die and I have the total power to do almost anything at my will. 
Praise the ISKs!
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 23:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
God? Bah... humbug!!! The only G-O-D for me is the almighty ISKs. I can show you what you can do with the almighty ISKs. With loads and loads of ISKs, I can literally never die and I have the total power to do almost anything at my will.
Praise the ISKs!
That is one way of looking at things I suppose.
--These views are not representative or indicative of any official policy or statement of any organizations I am party to.-- |
Gaven Lok'ri
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 23:36:00 -
[79]
This is a fine example of how Gallente/Caldari Liberalism constantly proves itself to be evil.
God is with us. |
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2005.11.03 00:30:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
This is a fine example of how Gallente/Caldari Liberalism constantly proves itself to be evil.
Hear ye, hear ye. I can show you the mighty power of the ISK. Tell me where is the almighty "Lord" when I am being warp scrambled with 5 x 250mm blasters tech 2 pointing at my pod! Can the almighty help me? I guess, the answer is NO! But the almighty ISKs may save me, a few millions ISKs will definitely safe my life. Can anyone vouch who is mightier, the God or the ISK?   
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Trevedian
|
Posted - 2005.11.03 02:44:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Trevedian on 03/11/2005 02:44:14
Gawd has no iskies Jenny, SHE couldn't even afford the reasonable ransom I offered HER... In addition to pwnin' HER, I was forced by Amarrian RPers to believe HER as well...
Gawd is a no0b!
To quote Schopenhauer;
How very paltry and limited the normal human intellect is, and how little lucidity there is in the human consciousness, may be judged from the fact that, despite the ephemeral brevity of human life, the uncertainty of our existence and the countless enigmas which press upon us from all sides, everyone does not continually and ceaselessly philosophize, but that only the rarest of exceptions do so. The rest live their lives away in this dream not very differently from the animals, from which they are in the end distinguished only by their ability to provide for a few years ahead. If they should ever feel any metaphysical need, it is taken care of from above and in advance by the various religions; and these, whatever they may be like, suffice.
Gawd is a Myth... PWNED!
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
|
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2005.11.03 03:11:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 03/11/2005 03:13:15
Originally by: Trevedian
Edited by: Trevedian on 03/11/2005 02:44:14
Gawd has no iskies Jenny, SHE couldn't even afford the reasonable ransom I offered HER... In addition to pwnin' HER, I was forced by Amarrian RPers to believe HER as well...
Gawd is a no0b!
To quote Schopenhauer;
How very paltry and limited the normal human intellect is, and how little lucidity there is in the human consciousness, may be judged from the fact that, despite the ephemeral brevity of human life, the uncertainty of our existence and the countless enigmas which press upon us from all sides, everyone does not continually and ceaselessly philosophize, but that only the rarest of exceptions do so. The rest live their lives away in this dream not very differently from the animals, from which they are in the end distinguished only by their ability to provide for a few years ahead. If they should ever feel any metaphysical need, it is taken care of from above and in advance by the various religions; and these, whatever they may be like, suffice.
Gawd is a Myth... PWNED!
Oh yes, an Amarr by the name of Trevedian has vouched for me. See, GOD has no ISKies and and therefore GOD is no mightier than the ISK. All hail to the ISK.
You may force me to believe what you want me to believe but I will always believe the might of the Inter-Stellar Kredits! ISKs talk and bullsh!ts walk 
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Right Eyeighty
|
Posted - 2005.11.03 04:27:00 -
[83]
Yet, sometimes I think 'Why there should be mosquitos? Whats the deal with flies?'
|
Dr Lightwave
|
Posted - 2005.11.03 05:01:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Dr Lightwave on 03/11/2005 05:03:28
Even though I'm not a religious man (like most of my kin do). Yet sometimes I ponder about things happening within the universe and our own history of the human race.
Why did our ancestor in ancient terra be the only sentient creature? Evolution it is, but why only human the only one capable of evolving to the higher level? An ancient scientifict record shows similiar creature that also have high intelligent yet unable to do feat what human do, and still dependent on their primal instict (Chimpanzee, dolphin).
If I remember it well from my history lesson about our ancient ancestor, people back then believing in supernatural things as a mean to explain things that they considered 'unnatural' or 'fearful' with limited logic.
Many ages and eras has past, and technology getting more and more improved. Thus with this, we gain more and more knowledge. The old myth broken, replaced by theory and fact. (un)natural things that caused by the work of pixies, spirits, devil, and Gods... now caused by particles, ozones, radiation, etc.
With the discoveries of DNA and splitting atomic particle, man started to discover the secret of God. Did you know that our ancestor first clone was a sheep? I was pretty amazed that they gave it the name of a famous singer at that era -Dolly Parton-. Pretty soon religious belief contradicts.
The more we discover ourself and our sorrounding, the more the faith in God is loosen. Yet above all those. We forgot what made us so complexes in the first place, and why nature is still unpredictable even with our best effort to predict with state-of-the-art tech.
No one did foresaw the collapse of Eve gate that seperated our root with the old universe right? Let alone though the possibility... Maybe the Jovian foresaw it and maybe not at all. In my opinion, God is the universe it self. The unpredictable malviolent nature and creator of stars.
Well looks like my opinion has been boring for some people even tho I still want to add another thing. So I guess I'll stop my theory here...
Ps: I almost forgot, the Jove is our 'God' for a while
-Dr Lightwave, STI Historian and Archeolog.
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.11.03 22:26:00 -
[85]
. . . Nevermind. Not worth responding too.
--These views are not representative or indicative of any official policy or statement of any organizations I am party to.-- |
Jon Xylur
|
Posted - 2005.11.05 12:50:00 -
[86]
If the existance of God would be proven, it would no longer be religion but thruth. I do not comment on wheter or not God exists, as proving or disproving it would be impossible. The universe exists and it doesn't matter what made it exists. I do doubt that the creator of the universe would even know that the human race actually exists, btut hat is just hwta I think and I cannot prove it to be true or false. Discussing religion leads to nothing.
|
Kaeleron
|
Posted - 2005.11.08 07:34:00 -
[87]
If one cannot discuss their beleifs than we have truly lost what it is to be human.
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression. |
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2005.11.08 09:37:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 08/11/2005 09:38:19
Originally by: Kaeleron
If one cannot discuss their beleifs than we have truly lost what it is to be human.
What is it to be human? Is to be human means to able to kill or to be able to pro-create?
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Jagaroth
|
Posted - 2005.11.08 10:51:00 -
[89]
Aww Jen...! What has become of you?! From listening to your ramblings you seem to have lost your path in life. Whatever happened to the sweet young thing I used to know...
------
|
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2005.11.08 14:29:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jagaroth
Aww Jen...! What has become of you?! From listening to your ramblings you seem to have lost your path in life. Whatever happened to the sweet young thing I used to know...
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |