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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.19 07:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sobeseki Pawi on 19/10/2005 07:13:22
As many people know, POSes are very easy to setup and claim sovereignty with.
This is not a problem in my opinion.
Now, what I think the problem is with POSes and Sovereignty is that there is no focus about it. You can claim Sovereignty is any two systems you like (assume that they are unclaimed), regardless of where they are located in relation to each other.
Under my idea, you would claim sovereignty in one system, then as you work that system up, you can gradually claim sovereignty in more. This has room for everyone. The big alliances can go for their Sov 4s and 5s, and the smaller ones can be happy with their 3s and lower.
So here is my Sovereignty 2.0 Idea
Sovereignty Level:
Unclaimed (Sov 0)
Completely unclaimed. No benefits to anyone.
Territory (Sov 1)
Requires a single Large Tower, 2 Medium Towers, or 4 Small Towers from claiming corp/alliance. This level gives 10% reduced POS fuel usage.
Protectorate (Sov 2)
Requires Sov 1 held for 48 hours and allows you to claim more Territory Systems. This level gives 20% reduced POS fuel usage.
Province (Sov 3)
Required Sov 2 for 96 hours and allows you to upgrade more Territories to Protectorates. This level gives 30% reduced POS fuel usage.
Regional Capital (Sov 4)
Can only be one per Region. Requires Sov 3 for 192 hours and an outpost. This level gives 50% reduced POS fuel usage.
Home System (Sov 5)
Can only be one per corp/alliance that is claiming sovereignty. Requires Sov 4 for 384 hours. Gives 75% reduced POS fuel usage (in the Home System) and an additional 10% reduced fuel usage for POSes not in the Home System (ex Sov 2 now would give 30% reduced usage). Can be renamed by the owner.
For purposes of this explanation, I'll use UALX-3 (Tenerifis) as the base system.
Sovereignty Timeline:
Hour 000: Large POS Placed in UALX-3.
Hour 024: Sov 1 is gained in UALX-3.
Hour 072: Sov 2 is gained in UALX-3. Large POSes are placed in 3L3N-X, DT-PXH, and Y-ORBJ.
Hour 096: Sov 1 is gained in 3L3N-X, DT-PXH, and Y-ORBJ. Large POSes are placed in 4-P4FE, Q-S7XD, S4-9DN, and 6-IAFR.
Hour 168: Sov 3 is gained in UALX-3. Sov 2 is gained in 3L3N-X, DT-PXH, and Y-ORBJ (had to wait till UALX-3 gained Sov 3).
Hour 192: Sov 1 is gained in 4-P4FE, Q-S7XD, S4-9DN, and 6-IAFR.
Hour ***: Outpost is built (this can happen any time, the counter is not affected by when it is completed, only that you have to have one to reach Sov 4).
Hour 360: Sov 4 is gained in UALX-3. Tenerifis is now under a blanket claim and all unclaimed systems revert to Sov 1 default for the Sov 4 owners. All systems in Tenerifis can advance to Sov 3 (must have POSes) independent of UALX-3. Systems outside the region cannot be claimed. The non POS supported Sov 1s can be claimed by another party if they do not already have a claimed system elsewhere.
Hour 744: Sov 5 is gained in UALX-3. Systems outside the region can now be claimed (none can advance further than Sov 4). UALX-3 is renamed to Sobe's Place.
You get the idea. 31 days from start to finish. You don't actually have to claim more than one system, I just added in the new systems to explain how you would expand.
As for taking systems, to take a Sov 1 that has no POS support, you simply act as if its unclaimed (the Sov 1 is for the map mainly). Sov 1 with POS support, same as now. Sov 2 will take 48 hours to change hands. Sov 3 will take 72 hours to change hands. So it is in the best interest of defense to build up sovereignty in your systems. Sov 4 and 5 require the outpost change hands.
It needs some more work, but this is the basic idea. Feel free to add your constructive input.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
CelticKnight
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Posted - 2005.10.19 07:41:00 -
[2]
would be rather cool.. instead of seeing an alliance controll 2-3 systems and LAY CLAIM to a region... it would actually SHOW on the map they CLAIM that region.... instead of only a scattering of systems...
IMHO could be quite cool... could be even better after X Amount of hours NPC sellers start moving in...
but i can imagine that would require a MASSIVE overwrite of Soverignty and huge amounts of work for CCP... so itll probably never happen... but it would be SO SWEET! *looks at map... sees ASCN HOME as a system name....* *DROOL*
 Originally by: Oveur
I can make 100 Trillion ISK with a single click.
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Benilopax
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Posted - 2005.10.19 08:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Benilopax on 19/10/2005 08:47:49
Very nice idea one addition if i may sovreignty 5: Allows placment of sentry guns etc. As is being brought out soon.
That way i think is best so that only one system is made relatively safe rather than several.
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Steiner
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Posted - 2005.10.19 08:51:00 -
[4]
I think that one outpost claims a whole region is a bit big, how about Consteallation ?... one outpost per const, then the corp/alliance will have to put up few to have regional claim and thus we would see more station pop-up and it would see it becoming more like a "Empire".
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-Steiner
Es and Whizz, for your special stuff |
Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.10.19 11:52:00 -
[5]
i like it, can u remove posses and still claim sov.?
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.19 12:17:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sobeseki Pawi on 19/10/2005 12:16:55
Originally by: Steiner
I think that one outpost claims a whole region is a bit big, how about Consteallation ?... one outpost per const, then the corp/alliance will have to put up few to have regional claim and thus we would see more station pop-up and it would see it becoming more like a "Empire".
The alternate plan:
Unclaimed (Sov 0)
Completely unclaimed. No benefits to anyone.
Territory (Sov 1)
Claimed by building a Large POS.
Province (Sov 2)
Upgrade from Sov 1. Claimed by building a second Large POS.
Constellation Capital (Sov 3)
One per Constellation. Claimed by building an Outpost. Entire Constellation must be Sov 2, before the CC system can be selected.
Regional Capital (Sov 4)
One per Region. Claimed by building a Station. All Constellations must have a CC before the RC can be selected.
Home System (Sov 5)
Only one per entity. Upgrade from Sov 4. Any RC can be upgraded to HS. Once selected, it's a permanent choice (for as long as the owner can hold it that is).
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.19 12:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dao 2
i like it, can u remove posses and still claim sov.?
Well, one option would let that be possible, and the other one wouldnt.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.19 12:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Benilopax
Edited by: Benilopax on 19/10/2005 08:47:49
Very nice idea one addition if i may sovreignty 5: Allows placment of sentry guns etc. As is being brought out soon.
That way i think is best so that only one system is made relatively safe rather than several.
Yes, I think that should be the case too.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Antic
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Posted - 2005.10.19 12:22:00 -
[9]
would be nice if they redid the galaxy map some too. Like adding a layer that actualy adds borderlines between territores and assign a color to a player empire. That way you can see more clearly on the galaxy map wich area belongs to whom currently and wich area is contested.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.19 12:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Antic
would be nice if they redid the galaxy map some too. Like adding a layer that actualy adds borderlines between territores and assign a color to a player empire. That way you can see more clearly on the galaxy map wich area belongs to whom currently and wich area is contested.
Like an ingame version of Joshua's, that would be cool.
I think the reason they haven't done that yet is the map is 3D. 
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2005.10.19 13:22:00 -
[11]
This is pretty much covered, with feedback from Oveur, in this topic
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Jak'ai
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Posted - 2005.10.19 13:57:00 -
[12]
It's a good outline - would make for much more meaningful PvP. The alternate scheme is better IMO as you really should have to drop a Large Tower in a system to claim it.
Again, IMO there needs to be fortifications introduced as soon as sov is claimed. Nothing on the scale of Empire sentry guns, but something that would slow down large fleets. I would suggest that as soon as Sov 1 is claimed then the owning alliance can build and anchor gate fortifications on any gate in the claimed system, as well as at any gate leading to that claimed system.
Fortifications would have some offensive and defensive abilities as well as granting a "minefield" effect in 20Km radius around the gate. Entering the minefield area (mines wouldn't need to be visible individually) would cause damage based on speed and sig radius. The goal would be to have a system that requires invaders to either take out the fortifications and sweep the minefield (new ship/module and takes a bit of time) or use a fleet of small, cloaked ships that have to go through the minefield slowly to activate the gate. Of course once titans and carriers come in they'd be able to jump behind enemy lines, but then they need the fuel to get out. Probably would also need to have an extended timer for log out in claimed space if you're not a member of the claiming alliance.
Mainly, for sov to actually mean something there has to be a way to slow down an enemy fleet wanting to enter claimed space. That gives the defenders time to marshall the defences. Anything else is really just using crayons on the map.
Another neat addition would be to allow the systems to change as well once sov is claimed. Sec status raises and ore content changes or something. I think the idea would be to have small islands of safer space surrounded by lawless 0.0 space. Something anyway to entice some more players out to alliance-run areas. Currently it's just not appealing enough to build up an infrastructure out there.
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ildra
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Posted - 2005.10.19 14:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: ildra on 19/10/2005 14:47:42
what about the conquerble stations, at which step would they become invulnerable ?
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Kurren
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Posted - 2005.10.19 15:15:00 -
[14]
Personally I think it's a great idea. Sounds very well thought-out. Maybe I should've read all the posts before asking this, but (to all the flamers) oh well...
Once you claim Sov. 5... can you create another Sov. 4 system? Or does the Sov. 5 simply take precidence over and you're now stuck just creating Sov. 2s and 3s? Doesn't really matter either way, honestly. Can or can't it still sounds like a bad ass idea. Might actually open up 0.0 to more than just 5 corps =P
And for those of you who can't sense sarcasm... I know there are more than 5 corps in 0.0...
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I'm not a pirate, I'm a business-extremist... |
Kurren
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Posted - 2005.10.19 15:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ildra
Edited by: ildra on 19/10/2005 14:47:42
what about the conquerble stations, at which step would they become invulnerable ?
sort of a contradiction in your statement...
if you can claim soverenity, then everything must be defeatable. thus keeping things fair and blah blah... IMHO the stations, POSes, insert here, should all remain able to blow up or be captured. It just adds to the difficulty of being in 0.0. Makes a corp/alliance work together to accomplish goals, such-n-such, blah-zey...
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I'm not a pirate, I'm a business-extremist... |
Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2005.10.19 15:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Somatic Neuron
This is pretty much covered, with feedback from Oveur, in this topic
and here 
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Mercade
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Posted - 2005.10.19 15:45:00 -
[17]
Great idea. Very endorsed with only one point of contention.
You should not automatically get further borders of sovereignty. Just because you have a XXX capital doesn't extend your sovereignty further. You should get reverse benefits though.
Something like all POS are invulnerable as long as all adjacent systems have sovereignty of X level. Basically providing front lines to a fight something that will give defense an advantage where right now defense is the hardest thing to play in this game.
Make the owners sally out to defend the edges of their empire but also allow them with organized defenses, some turret augmentation and maybe hireable small scale NPC concord to be able to keep small forces from barreling in and punching holes in their area.
This would make pipelines very rarily claimed or held well with the number of interconnecting systems. But offshoots would become small empires. An Alliance might become a coalition of city states each a governor of a small area.
In order to do that and truly make it all happen we still need two things. Better mineral value in all 0.0 systems, hell all systems. You should be able to expect in -0.4 to find XXX ore and that ore should be at least one of the abc's.
But other then that I really like the idea. Let's encourage smaller stronger territorial groups with greater space value rather then large. No one likes traveling 20 systems to defend flanks anyway, only reason it's done is NPC stations sprawl, defense can't make a full claim and often you need to hold a full region of conquerables to live in an area.
A good sovereignty system and outposts will make those points mute if there is sufficient rich ore in most areas.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.19 19:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kurren
Personally I think it's a great idea. Sounds very well thought-out. Maybe I should've read all the posts before asking this, but (to all the flamers) oh well...
Once you claim Sov. 5... can you create another Sov. 4 system? Or does the Sov. 5 simply take precidence over and you're now stuck just creating Sov. 2s and 3s? Doesn't really matter either way, honestly. Can or can't it still sounds like a bad ass idea. Might actually open up 0.0 to more than just 5 corps =P
And for those of you who can't sense sarcasm... I know there are more than 5 corps in 0.0...
The Sov 5 System would replace the Sov 4 in regards to functionality. If the entity only controls one region, then they would only have a Sov 4 for as long as it took for it to become a Sov 5.
Sov 4 will come into play more as multi region entities advance. BoB for example would have 1 Sov 5, and 3 Sov 4s.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.19 19:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mercade
Great idea. Very endorsed with only one point of contention.
You should not automatically get further borders of sovereignty. Just because you have a XXX capital doesn't extend your sovereignty further. You should get reverse benefits though.
I agree, the originaly plan had the auto region claim as a perk to being the most powerful entity there. But a Constellation based turf system (as later explained) would solve this issue.
Quote:
Something like all POS are invulnerable as long as all adjacent systems have sovereignty of X level. Basically providing front lines to a fight something that will give defense an advantage where right now defense is the hardest thing to play in this game.
Yes, I didn't think about this. Perhaps instead of invulnerability, grant all 'locked' systems a 250% bonus to shield strength. Also, 'locked' systems wouldn't allow POSes from outside the entity to be anchored.
Quote:
Make the owners sally out to defend the edges of their empire but also allow them with organized defenses, some turret augmentation and maybe hireable small scale NPC concord to be able to keep small forces from barreling in and punching holes in their area.
I like this idea less than I woulda thought. Players should be defending player space.
Quote:
This would make pipelines very rarily claimed or held well with the number of interconnecting systems. But offshoots would become small empires. An Alliance might become a coalition of city states each a governor of a small area.
Mush as it should be.
Quote:
In order to do that and truly make it all happen we still need two things. Better mineral value in all 0.0 systems, hell all systems. You should be able to expect in -0.4 to find XXX ore and that ore should be at least one of the abc's.
These are the things I think should be changed about 0.0 to make this work better:
1. Remove NPC and Conquerable Stations
2. Move Pirate Agents to low sec empire (ya know, where pirating happens)
3. Upgrade all non empire system belts to at least Dark Ochre.
4. Add an ice field to every constellation that does not have one.
Quote:
But other then that I really like the idea. Let's encourage smaller stronger territorial groups with greater space value rather then large. No one likes traveling 20 systems to defend flanks anyway, only reason it's done is NPC stations sprawl, defense can't make a full claim and often you need to hold a full region of conquerables to live in an area.
This is the idea, but also allowing for larger empires as well.
Quote:
A good sovereignty system and outposts will make those points mute if there is sufficient rich ore in most areas.
Agreed.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.20 02:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Somatic Neuron
Originally by: Somatic Neuron
This is pretty much covered, with feedback from Oveur, in this topic
and here
Those ideas don't seem to be much like mine...unless I'm mistaken?
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Khargos
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Posted - 2005.10.20 04:21:00 -
[21]
Your idea sounds very good to me.
also what would really cool though is if the controlling alliance could NAME the system (something appropreate of course)
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.20 06:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Khargos
Your idea sounds very good to me.
also what would really cool though is if the controlling alliance could NAME the system (something appropreate of course)
That is part of the Sov 5 perks already 
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Captain Cutie does not speak for the Phoenix Alliance. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.21 18:38:00 -
[23]
No more comments?
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.10.21 18:42:00 -
[24]
Very cool idea, I like it. With one exception: I think your timelines for increasing sov levels are WAY too short. Essentially, you've just thought up a great annexation system for the game, which is awesome. But I think the timelines need to be MUCH MUCH longer.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.21 18:49:00 -
[25]
About how long? 31 days is quite awhile, and building outposts is no small thing. Plus with the added Sov levels, it will be easier for an enemy to guess where you are building them.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.10.21 19:00:00 -
[26]
Just my opinion, but annexing territory in EVE should take longer than training to fly a battleship. I'm talking months.
If the time it takes to do it is too long, then maybe the problem is that there's not enough reward from completing the process.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.21 19:05:00 -
[27]
Mmm, well it would certainly take longer than it does now.
The expansion is what will prove to be the real challenge for most entities, not necessarily a single system or constellation.
Having at least one POS in every system you need to claim to get the systems you want...can be an interesting logistical problem. But like someone said, it would promote federalism.
systems = counties/districts
Constellations = states/provinces
Regions = united states/canada
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.10.21 23:11:00 -
[28]
cool stuff 
/Mav
If you want peace prepare for war ! |
Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.27 03:40:00 -
[29]
Levels of soverignty is a Cool idea.
An alternative (maybe CCP already mentioned somewhere) is if the 'levels' were implemented by having sovreignty of an entire constellation or region, it would be cool.
Screenshots
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WRAITH666
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Posted - 2005.11.01 12:38:00 -
[30]
I think this is a good idea.
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