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IS boxer Software and it's legality under the EULA

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Pick mee Caldari Provisions Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:09:00 - [241] - Quote its cheating plain and simple , CCP just dont have big enough ballz to do anything about it
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater1 Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:31:00 - [242] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater7 Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:31:00 - [243] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater3 Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:31:00 - [244] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater8 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:31:00 - [245] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater2 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:31:00 - [246] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater4 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:31:00 - [247] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater5 Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:32:00 - [248] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
ISBoxer Innerspace Hater6 Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:32:00 - [249] - Quote I completley agree with OP... Oh wait.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 917	Posted - 2013.05.26 13:02:00 - [250] - Quote GreenSeed wrote: please explain to me how the living @(% can anyone bot with isboxer, innerspace, or any other multiboxing application. please, do. InnerSpace provides you with a hook into the DirectX EndScene method. From there you can do more or less whatever the *** you want to do. No need for something crude like OCR or repeated keystrokes. There's a very popular InnerSpace extension for EVE, look it up if you think I'm lying to you.
Demolishar United Aggression 885	Posted - 2013.05.26 13:04:00 - [251] - Quote ISBoxer Innerspace Hater6 wrote: I completley agree with OP... Oh wait. How did you keep login tokens seperate between browsers?! I WANT TO DO THAT!!!
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 917	Posted - 2013.05.26 13:12:00 - [252] - Quote Don't get me wrong you don't need InnerSpace to hook into EndScene but InnerSpace provides this functionality in a convenient way and is probably less likely to get you banned than some custom hook (game devs don't want to ban all InnerSpace users).
Sayf ulMulk Royal Starlancers 11	Posted - 2013.05.26 13:38:00 - [253] - Quote Its very simple you shouldnt use programs that in anyway interact with game in real time or in delay close to real time. Who cares that someone has xxx accounts. Was his choice at first place. If he needs program to run them its his mistake not CCP.
Nyla Skin Maximum fun chamber 252	Posted - 2013.05.26 13:44:00 - [254] - Quote Tippia wrote: Murk Paradox wrote: It's pretty simple. Replication is copying, repeating, right? Automation is synthesizing the work instead of doing it yourself right? GÇªand ISBoxer does not offer the latter. You still have to do the work. It doesn't automate anything. Actually yes it does, otherwise there would be no difference between it and doing the same thing yourself on two different accounts without this software. But obviously there is a difference. However, CCP has made its stance clear, and that is all that matters.
DelBoy Trades Trotter Independent Traders. 561	Posted - 2013.05.26 14:11:00 - [255] - Quote People are moaning about ISBoxers because they feel hard done by that people are giving themselves this edge. You're jealous that these guys are soloing incursions or running entire mining operations on their own and are too lazy to do it yourselves, I get it...But they're paying one subscription per character just like anyone else, there's no automation involved, it's just a slightly more sophisticated version of tying together a load of mice with dowel and having one of those funky G-something keyboards. The real point is, you hardly ever come across someone using ISBoxer, I haven't in my whole time in EVE, having ~3000 PVP kills, doing incursions, mining, plexes, missions, you name it, ever come across someone who has negatively affected my gameplay using this software, it's just really rare. If you don't like it, fair enough, but don't whine about it, no one cares, CCP included. There's probably a couple hundred ISBoxers in the game, if that, they just stick out like a sore thumb which makes people think they're more prevalent than they are. However, each of these guys are running usually between 10 & 20 accounts each, accounts that if ISBoxer was banned WOULD be unsubbed, good luck trying to convince CCP to ban software that makes them about $150,000 a month and cause no negative effects to the game apart from upsetting forum-whiners that barely ever undock... Damn nature, you scary!
Rosewalker Khumaak Flying Circus 19	Posted - 2013.05.26 14:36:00 - [256] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: GreenSeed wrote: please explain to me how the living @(% can anyone bot with isboxer, innerspace, or any other multiboxing application. please, do. InnerSpace provides you with a hook into the DirectX EndScene method. From there you can do more or less whatever the * you want to do. No need for something crude like OCR or repeated keystrokes. There's a very popular InnerSpace extension for EVE, look it up if you think I'm lying to you. GreenSeed seems to be under the impression that LavishScript does not contain conditional commands like If, If...Else, If...Elseif, and loops like Do...While, While and For. And if I read the Lavish Software wiki correctly developers can also use .NET languages like Visual Basic, C++ and C# to write code in. I found this namespace listed under the InnerSpace API available for .NET developers to use interesting. "InnerSpace.Memory** is a mechanism for using memory protection services to hide memory modifications from anti-cheat systems. As such, the original value is stored for later restoring the change to its original value. Memory protection services are implemented by extensions such as ISXEQ and ISXWarden to provide a common mechanism for modifying and protecting those modifications." But I appear to have gotten away from the original point of this thread, in that the OP argued that ISBoxer violates 6A2 and 6A3 of the EULA. From everything I can tell it doesn't. I think it violates other areas of the EULA/ToS, but not those two. However, as CCP is turning away from a strict technical assessment of software to a "no harm, no foul" attitude (see also cache scraping), ISBoxer is not banned at this time, although CCP is clearly leaving their options open to change their minds at a later date. For those wishing an end to the discussion about ISBoxer, CCP's open willingness to change its mind is an inducement for more threads like this. So expect to see more threads. The head of Lavish Software probably enjoys the free publicity anyway. The Nosy Gamer - Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer
Randi Fleetstalker Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2013.05.26 14:40:00 - [257] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: GreenSeed wrote: please explain to me how the living @(% can anyone bot with isboxer, innerspace, or any other multiboxing application. please, do. InnerSpace provides you with a hook into the DirectX EndScene method. From there you can do more or less whatever the *** you want to do. No need for something crude like OCR or repeated keystrokes. There's a very popular InnerSpace extension for EVE, look it up if you think I'm lying to you. Inner Space is programmable, people can technically write pretty much anything for it. Windows is also programmable, people can technically write pretty much anything for it. There are popular EVE bots for Windows, look it up if you think I'm lying to you. What does any of this have to do with ISBoxer, besides that ISBoxer is written for Windows and Inner Space? Inner Space isn't the only thing people use that "hooks into DirectX". Mumble and Teamspeak both have in-game overlays. Mumble is also Open Source, meaning that you can directly code your hacks into Mumble. People also play the game in Linux by using Wine, which is also Open Source, and you can directly code your hacks into Wine. The only difference here is your personal feelings.
Ellen Thrace State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.06.08 01:13:00 - [258] - Quote I really don't know which part of the following phrase don't people understand. "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
Kewso School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.06.08 02:07:00 - [259] - Quote tinyminer, ghostsuite, isk miner, stealth miner, ISxEve, all use innerspace and couple use ISBoxer with scripts Isboxer is the platform but plug in any of the aforementioned scripts and you have a full fledged automated bot. All but 2 have been updated for Odyssey already.
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 2254	Posted - 2013.06.08 02:23:00 - [260] - Quote Applicable: The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 227	Posted - 2013.06.08 02:24:00 - [261] - Quote Kewso wrote: tinyminer, ghostsuite, isk miner, stealth miner, ISxEve, all use innerspace and couple use ISBoxer with scripts Isboxer is the platform but plug in any of the aforementioned scripts and you have a full fledged automated bot. All but 2 have been updated for Odyssey already. Shhhh...."You don't know what you're talking about". "IT'S NOT BOTWARE!!!" "IT'S NOT MACROS!!!" Meanwhile, when you encounter that 30+ account player in a WoW battleground.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfA8b5AIpBE&list=UU8HoHTs_hXwFlpp8PlZqqQA You do know what you're talking about. Encountered that dude in AV one time when I was the BG leader. Since you can't beat him (instantly killed), wasted his time for almost 2hrs while his sidekicked screamed and hollered, and proceeded to kill himself 100+ times to end the match. Devs that don't break that junk don't care about their players, they're just milking players for their money (like taking 100x$15 a month), ruining the experience of the other players. It's that type of negatives that bleed players from a game, because they're tired of wasting their 1 or 2hr playtime and money trying to compete with fools like that. Multiboxing is fine for mundane activities and leveling alts (I multibox 3 clients in WoW). It's not fine in public queues/instances/events and it's economy, as it hurts the other players, as it robs them of their value in a game. Break that junk already, not excuse it. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
GreenSeed 416	Posted - 2013.06.08 02:36:00 - [262] - Quote hey dimwit, i think you meant to post that in here http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/
Xeraphi The Gun Runners 23	Posted - 2013.06.08 06:42:00 - [263] - Quote Ellen Thrace wrote: I really don't know which part of the following sentence don't people understand: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played." Oh no I use evemon to plan out my skill queue. This gives me a huge advantage over the ingame tools. Will I be banned? *tongue inserted firmly into cheek
Bar0th Industrial Forge Works Inc ORPHANS OF EVE 1	Posted - 2013.06.08 08:29:00 - [264] - Quote GM Lelouch wrote: ... Let us make an example to illustrate why: 'Hypothetical Software v1.0' is released to the joy of all and is eventually endorsed by CCP as a fine supplement to EVE; the program is officially declared to not be in violation of the EVE EULA/ToS. Some weeks later, the developers of 'Hypothetical Software' releases an update, version 1.1, an update which adds macro mining functionality to the program's existing features. Automating the mining portion of the game is obviously in violation of the EVE EULA so use of 'Hypothetical Software' would suddenly become a EULA violation despite prior endorsement by CCP. ... Like, Inner Space? Which powers ISBoxer, and supports full automation, memory modification of the target process, etc.. In addition, Inner Space also powers several bots.
Ace Uoweme Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 232	Posted - 2013.06.08 08:35:00 - [265] - Quote GreenSeed wrote: hey dimwit, i think you meant to post that in here http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/ Yo, dummy, apparently CCP is sharing Cliff Notes with Blizzard in how to kill a game with bots. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
VegasMirage EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 385	Posted - 2013.06.08 14:51:00 - [266] - Quote Bar0th wrote: GM Lelouch wrote: ... Let us make an example to illustrate why: 'Hypothetical Software v1.0' is released to the joy of all and is eventually endorsed by CCP as a fine supplement to EVE; the program is officially declared to not be in violation of the EVE EULA/ToS. Some weeks later, the developers of 'Hypothetical Software' releases an update, version 1.1, an update which adds macro mining functionality to the program's existing features. Automating the mining portion of the game is obviously in violation of the EVE EULA so use of 'Hypothetical Software' would suddenly become a EULA violation despite prior endorsement by CCP. ... Like, Inner Space? Which powers ISBoxer, and supports full automation, memory modification of the target process, etc.. In addition, Inner Space also powers several bots. Hi Bar0th :) remember me o/ The problem is most of the player comments against ISBOXER relies on what you just said, "supports full automation". You can ban ISBOXER, but then what you really need to ban is the programming languages like AutoHotKey because ISBOXER commands can be written in dozens of languages using just as many methods. CCP made it clear, if you are at the computer and the game play you're interacting with is NOT a closed loop then you're not "botting" or breaking the game. Closed loop means accepting a courier mission and having your char leave station and return to station turning in the mission... etc., The short cut menu offered by CCP in game are in many instances macros. Key combinations making the game less tedious and more fun to play. Anybody who is still whining after my post is someone who has folders full of their "selfies" on their desktop . Stop the whine. no more games... it's real this time!!!
Ellen Thrace State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.06.08 17:38:00 - [267] - Quote ISBOXER clearly violates the EULA. I just want to give my opinion about MULTICLIENT, MULTIBOX Software and "translate/repeat keyboard/mouse commands to multiple clients". MULTICLIENT - its allowed by CCP and its fine by me. MULTIBOX Software - I dont like it but its allowed by CCP. "translate/repeat keyboard/mouse commands to multiple clients" - this is absolutely shameful ! I dont care what other games or CCP think about it, but I WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT ! ! ! Also this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217614
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14673	Posted - 2013.06.08 17:48:00 - [268] - Quote Ellen Thrace wrote: ISBOXER clearly violates the EULA. Incorrect. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Ellen Thrace State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.06.08 18:03:00 - [269] - Quote Ellen Thrace wrote: I really don't know which part of the following sentence don't people understand: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
Xeraphi The Gun Runners 24	Posted - 2013.06.09 10:01:00 - [270] - Quote Ellen Thrace wrote: Ellen Thrace wrote: I really don't know which part of the following sentence don't people understand: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played." How does playing the game the same way on multiple clients at once change the way the game is played? It's being played the same way. The exact same way. I have a miner, and yeah it would suck for me, a one-person miner to show up to a belt and see like, 40 accounts there. But those aren't botters and I'd just go to another belt. Botters are the ones that show up in my belt and mine the same rock I'm mining because their botting script tells them to mine the biggest rock there. Which happens to be the same one I picked by actively playing. And then their script mines the second biggest rock... which I'd already switched to... and they don't respond in local when you say "hey dude watch where you mine" because they're afk and not even playing the game, letting a script do it. Where I mine, several people have 3-4 miners and an orca. I was mining once, warped to a belt, and there were 4 exhumers there. So I warped to the next belt. Someone obviously controlling all the accounts warped in those 4 exhumers. Since I was there already, warped all of them off. That's not botting and is downright considerate. As far as I can tell, with ISBoxer the player still has to be there. Not understanding the hatred, here. I think it's pretty epic to play multiple accounts at once. It must be hard to pvp like that though. If there are third-party scripts for that software which violate the EULA, I'm sure it makes it tougher for CCP to deal with the problem, however I commend them for not banning software that does not in itself violate the EULA.

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