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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.22 22:08:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Necrologic
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Necrologic I know these changes arn't so much to t2, but can you please consider giving the vengeance some love? There's tons of things that could be done with it. Extra low or med, more speed, less mass? It is a slot to short. I think an extra med and bumping up its speed abit would be sweet, but any love at all for it would be nice.
it has same slots like any AF
Retribution 5/1/5=11. Enyo 5/2/4=11 Harpy 5/4/2=11 Wolf 5/2/4=11 Vengeace 4/3/3=10.
Well i think he meant slot amounts like the Jaguar, Ishkur and Hawk. They all have a total of 10 slots.
Not like it matters tho.
Amount of slots != ship performance
The Vengeance is a pos. ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.22 23:07:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Agreed.
Vengence suffers because it has NO bonus to damage. That leaves it with no better firepower than the Amarr interceptors (it can fit bigger guns, but they have a damage bonus), and while it's tougher it's also slower...
Actually it's worse. The Vengeance gets outdamaged by some tech 1 frigates.
lol. ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.23 08:11:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
All afs: -1 med slot, + 1 low slot, + 1 gun (yeah retribution with 0 meds
wtf ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.24 14:05:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Meridius on 24/10/2005 14:07:31
Originally by: Nafri
and no blaster AC will it you, a vagabund cant hit my frig with its autocannons :D
Well yeah, thats a frig vs cruiser and you're tracking disrupting him. Ofc he's not going to hit you (easily).
Try tracking disrupting a Vagabond with an Arbitrator
In fact, if you want to do something constructive, meet me on the test server and we can test it out
*edit* nm, test server is down ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.25 22:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nafri
cause omen has 13 and stabber 12 and caracal 11
or rifter one less then the other aussault frigs
Yes and slots really determine how well a ship does in pvp right
Why do i see so many more Rifters then Punishers? I've seen 1 god damn omen in pvp in 2 years. I've seen plenty of Stabbers and Caracals.
Once again:
Slot total != ship performance ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.26 13:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dashi
I must be the lucky 1
Linkage
No actually, i didn't count you since you wanted to use that ship for the heck of it in a suicidal 1 on 1 ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.26 16:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Forsch low cap use..
It's no cap use for frigs ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.28 22:28:00 -
[8]
I wonder if we'll see any Punishers in pvp. ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.01 00:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 31/10/2005 23:21:52 <whispers> Pssst.....Tux. Come here while everyone else is busy crying about drones. I wanna talk to you about the maller.
For a long time I had trouble quantifying what my problem is with fitting out the Maller when comparing it to other ships. It lacks a dronebay, but it has more slots to offset this, right? And when I first started doing a comparative fitting analysis it all looked peachy until I realized one thing.
The Maller has an empty highslot.
When comparing ships you wouldn't leave out a highslot on any other ship, would you? No, of course not. Especially since the Maller gives up the copious dronebay that the other Tier 3 cruisers have in order to obtain the extra slot. You utilize all the slots on a ship. And ships that have a bonus, like the mwd bonus on the Rax, are given some extra fittings to make sure that they can fit thier load of weapons and this ship specific bonus when comparing it to other ships. Hence the new grid given to the Rax.
There are only 2 items that can fit in a utility slot. A Nos and a Smartbomb. Here is a comparison showing all of the Tier 3 cruisers (MK2 style) with maximum fitting skills to both ship and weapons. All numbers are using the largest long range weapons for all ships for so there is a direct comparison. I have listed the Maller with a rack of guns and an empty highslot, a Nos, and a Smartbomb.
Here it is plain to see that the Maller has been balanced leaving the high slot empty. To me there are just a few options available to rectify this inbalance.
- Boost the grid of the Maller so that it can fill all of it's slots like every other tier 3 cruiser.
- Change the utility slot to a weapon slot.
- Remove the utility slot and give the maller a dronebay equivalent to the Rupture (60m3)
- Change the highslot to a low slot or mid to at least allow something to be fitted
Something needs to be done. All other Tier 3 cruisers can fit all thier slots with only 1 RCU. The Maller should be able to do the same. Either that or change the slot layout on the Maller. As it stands, like the Coercer, the Maller is not balanced.
Nyxus
Edit - I left the Omen in by accident. I am too lazy to remove it.
I come from the belief that the Maller should get 6 turret points. Unfortunately, i will likely get shot in the face for saying this ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.01 00:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dimitri Forgroth
Wouldn't that make the omen completely useless? (As it is now, it at least has a marginal damage edge over the maller with good skills)
You don't need this change to make the Omen useless. It already does less damage then a Maller even with it's ROF bonus.
Not like this change is going to be put in but if it was, the Omen should then get a 5th turret in place of it's 5th high(useless) slot. ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.01 01:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Luc Boye
Eh, extra mid = tracking disruptor.
The Omen doesn't have an extra mid over the Maller ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.05 05:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Meridius on 05/11/2005 05:24:43
Originally by: Sorja
About the 'you won't get 5 turrets because the model only supports 4' I've worked a rather long time with 3DSMax and changing a model and it's animations is trivial.
You're assuming it's only an art change. I doubt it is, i bet it's more to do with code. I know an artist has to decide where to place the extra turret but i can't imagine what else would be required since there is no real art required.
I imagine it's more of a coding thing and the coders probably have there hands full with rmr. ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.05 10:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: j0sephine
I'd hope it's written intelligent enough to just grab up to 8+ of turret attachment points from the model, and then simply use as many of them as the attributes of ship attached to the model dictate... :/
I don't think it's written that way. That would mean an artist/whatever would have to place those 8 turret points on every ship in game. It would be a big waste of time to do it that way tbh
Just thinking back to how long it took the Malediction to get it's 3rd turret on the model - took a while ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.11 22:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tuxford the sacrilege can have a good tank and still have 4 med slots free, Eagle can't do that.
The only setup that allows that is filled with NOS in highs and effectively makes the ship only affective at around 10km (nos range). It's mostly a heavy tackler setup which imo is just dumb as you're spending more money then a tier 1 bs (without insurance) on a ship that only tackles. The damage in that NOS setup is that of a tech 1 frigate
I think it should drop a highslot/launcher point and gain a midslot. If it's a ship heavily influenced by Caldari design, why does the Ishtar have more mids then it. ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.12 00:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Sure. And in a HAC gang, that's invaluable. A heavy tackler with a great tank.
You really sound like a broken record. I've said it before with numbers but i'll just put it simply, an Ishtar is a better heavy tackler. It has more speed, midslots and outputs almost 3x+ more damage with slightly less tanking ability.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.12 03:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Maya Rkell And once more, the difference is tanking ability and setup is significant.
It's pretty simple if you're not a troll.
25% resists or 1 more mid, 3x+ more damage, 100% nos dedicated highslots (can suck more cap, compensates well for not having as much cap), faster and more agile.
Tough decision
If you have a counter point please try to make a point rather then mention what the difference is and not back it up with any facts. ________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.12 21:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 12/11/2005 20:12:06
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Maya Rkell And once more, the difference is tanking ability and setup is significant.
It's pretty simple if you're not a troll.
25% resists or 1 more mid, 3x+ more damage, 100% nos dedicated highslots (can suck more cap, compensates well for not having as much cap), faster and more agile.
Tough decision
If you have a counter point please try to make a point rather then mention what the difference is and not back it up with any facts.
Okay, let's go over the details AGAIN.
*Better resists, unless you want to spend 350+ mil on a membrane and even then it stacks. *Missiles, so you can do a range of damage types and strike at any range *Ship prices Blah, I can't be bothered, said it all before.
If there are issues, fine. But every suggestion is trying to turn it into a bad imitation of the Zealot. (I AM in favour of doing things like adding armour and removing shield, and making the drone bay 25m¦ AFTER the changes ffs...as again I've already stated)
Missiles? You mean less then 90DPS of damage? Sorry, heavy launchers suck right now and everyone and there mom knows that. I mean seriously you expect me to believe people are using Sacrileges to conduct long range attacks with a whole 3 heavy launchers?
Resists? Yeah thats a good one, read again how the Ishtar has a ton of advantages to counter that.
Once again, more mids, speed, agility, 3x+ firepower, more nossing.
It's a simple trade off, what do you want, 25% resist or all that crap i just mentioned. Only a complete nub of pvp would actually pick the resists over that, sorry.
Ship price, what are you kidding me?
HACs are priced a great deal according to the demand for them. The Sacrilege sucks thats why its so cheap compared to the Ishtar. ________________________________________________________
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