There is literally a sticky thread by a GM in this very forum that says bumping is legitimate and acceptable.

There is literally a sticky thread by a GM in this very forum that says bumping is legitimate and acceptable.

Oh the tears of unfathomable sadness, Mmm... yummy

Oh the tears of unfathomable sadness, Mmm... yummy

60% of the time, you're wrong all the time

4.Unfortunately, my local mining colleagues are an un-communicative bunch at best. I donGÇÖt know if this is a trend. I hope not.

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOST

Hmm... I didn't think it would be possible for my respect for goons to decrease any further. But then they posted!

I am a highsec miner. This is my main source of income in the EvE game. As a miner I make profits and during these activities I incur expenses. This is business at its most basic. I believe that there are a huge percentage of EvE pilots who are able to constantly increase their profit margins by progression in skills, equipment and knowledge. IGÇÖd like to think that IGÇÖm one of them.

I have never (as yet) been killed and/or podded by members of this Order. I have been GÇÿbumpedGÇÖ on odd occasions (if thatGÇÖs what getting out of harmGÇÖs way means). With this in mind, IGÇÖd like to give a little bit of advice to my fellow miners.

1.Above all else remember that EvE is a game. Never, ever expect to be treated fairly. I am constantly amazed at the anger and abuse that is heaped on James 315 and his/her associates (we must remember that in- game characters may be operated by different sex players) by other pilots that have been dealt with by the Order (and others that have not) as they forget this most basic tenet.

2.Glean intelligence. Regularly check the killboards for your local mining area for recent activity. Learn who your local ganker/bumpers are. Put them in your contact watch lists. It is up to you if you wish to widely make this information known. I would recommend not, since you do not wish to antagonize these pilots as they go about their business as it is hard enough for them as it is. When they are online, you take an obvious risk. Find out if they are online at regular periods and if so, mine when they are asleep. No, donGÇÖt mine when youGÇÖre asleep as it can have a deliberating in game effect. This brings me to my next point.

3.Go and do something else. Surely you do more than mining? No? Then you deserved to be ganked. Now may be the time to explore, mission, buy, sell, communicate. CanGÇÖt think of anything? Well, get off-line and do some gardening then.

4.Unfortunately, my local mining colleagues are an un-communicative bunch at best. I donGÇÖt know if this is a trend. I hope not. If James 315 can organize what seems to me, to be an impressive business attracting investor funds and notoriety, then surely a few miners couldnGÇÖt put their heads together to figure out a few ways of at least making life a little more difficult for the activities of this Order? I do not mine afk and I like to increase my mining output by the simple expedient of fleeting and to this end I have concentrated part of my skills to give myself and fellow miners boosts. Since my corporation currently consists of me and my combat missioning buddy we donGÇÖt have much chance to fleet mine. I often ask my local fellow miners if theyGÇÖd like to fleet. ItGÇÖs a friendly gesture, since we both make more ISK and IGÇÖve always paid the communication fee for new contacts. Generally IGÇÖm met with suspicion, stony silence or a few lame excuses. Sure, I understand that my fellow miner may not understand English, or that they may only be online a little while longer GǪ.but JeezGǪno wonder weGÇÖre a hunted bunch.

5.If you really must mine because maybe you are a little crazy after all, then dust off that old mining frigate and create another pilot that really couldnGÇÖt care less if he got his head blown off, go to where the big boys are mining and maybe youGÇÖll see what an exploding Hulk looks like from the gallery.

6.GÇ£As a miner I make profits and during these activities I incur expensesGÇ¥. Now where have I heard that before? If you wish to mine and make great wads of ISK whilst The New Order is operating in your area then you could pay James 315 his GÇÿindulgenceGÇÖ fee of 10 million ISK per annum. LetGÇÖs put this in perspective. If you mine in a barge or exhumer with T2 crystals and good skills, youGÇÖd have to be earning around that in an hour at the very least. This means that one hour of your mining life per year is dedicated to support Mr James 315 and his associates. I guess the jury is out on that one, and I hope that he hasnGÇÖt read down this far and decided to up the ante.

7.When you communicate with The New Order put your tongue firmly in your cheek, do not put your foot in your mouth, never be armed to the teeth, be civil and learn how to use a spellchecker or youGÇÖll end up providing amusing entertainment as Mr Spark2Universe no doubt has.

8.You may have your own opinion on the activities of the New Order and the sheer gall of Mr James 315, but he seems an intelligent, articulate and dedicated sort of a guy wanting to make a profit in this world of New Eden. After all, donGÇÖt we all? And I may yet pay him his indulgence.

obvious propaganda thread

They are un-communicative because they are AFK. They come back every 20 minutes to empty, then return (heaven help me) to the exact same spot, press F1, then go back to playing Minecraft or doing their laundry. The really good ones press F1 and 20 mackinaws all start mining. It.. sickens me. Thank you for bringing this up. I haven't ganked a miner in days. I will fix that today.

Some good stuff there. Unfortuantely, you have wasted your key strokes since, as you already discovered, most of your brethren are not paying attention and think EVE is some sort of "press button, receive ISK" game. I predict you will become frustrated being part of such a community of AFKers and roll a ganking alt at some point.

I would also add:

--- Go to another system where there is no enforcement going on ATM. It doesn't take that long.

--- Tank your boat! If there are two retrievers in a belt and one's tanked and one's just a pinata, guess which one we're hitting.

i just lol at new order.

they are full of rookies, terrible gankers

Their killboard says otherwise, so does the amount of hate mail they receive.

No, they don't. They kill nothing but untanked inexperienced miners. Their kill board is packed full of the worst fits they could find and then talked up to be a great accomplishment.

James and his loving children Kill, extort, and threaten miners....Then Call, as if to make fun of the fact, himself the savior of highsec, returning dignity to miners, and directing them towards truely honorable mining.

Trolls aren't welcome anywhere.

No, they don't. They kill nothing but untanked inexperienced miners. Their kill board is packed full of the worst fits they could find and then talked up to be a great accomplishment.

James and his loving children Kill, extort, and threaten miners....Then Call, as if to make fun of the fact, himself the savior of highsec, returning dignity to miners, and directing them towards truely honorable mining.

Trolls aren't welcome anywhere.

Well the only way for the untanked, inexperienced miners to get experience (and learn the value of a tank) is via some anti-matter rounds.

No matter how you look at it, we are doing a great service for the miners of highsec.

Their killboard says otherwise, so does the amount of hate mail they receive.

The New Order provides a valuable service. That's why I have placed the weight of my honour and my wallet behind it.

On a player to player killboard comparison, i would be better solo then there top 5 put together.

On a player to player killboard comparison, i would be better solo then there top 5 put together.

That'll be because 90% of your kills are in lowsec, where you don't have to avoid Concord, the Faction Navy or wait out GCCs in station. Highsec is a different kettle of fish, go and try it.

That'll be because 90% of your kills are in lowsec, where you don't have to avoid Concord, the Faction Navy or wait out GCCs in station. Highsec is a different kettle of fish, go and try it.

The number of people reading the thread before posting is too damn low.

Actually 90% of my kills are in high sec.

the number of mad rookies in this thread just got too damn high. let me know when you want to come play in the big league kid.

Of course there are rookies in this thread. Veterans come from former rookies - Dur! Even you were a rookie at one point. Yeah, you're elite now, but there was s time when you, too, were a total scrub, so get over yourself.

I stand corrected, my apologies, I only quickly skimmed your kills.


In June their top 5 killers collectively clocked up 700+ kills for a value of 101 billion isk , you clocked up 529 with a value of 57.5 billion isk. That's just alliance members, it doesn't include the affiliated pilots that use the miner bumping forums or the new order chat channel.

With reference to the Hulkageddon thing,

• There's a new order affiliated pilot sat at #4 in the champions league, just below you at #3.
• #1 in the junior league is a current new order pilot and a former new order pilot sits at #2, you're at #3.
• In the solo killers league there are 3 new order pilots (1 alliance member, 1 affiliated and 1 former) in the top 5, and at least 1 more affiliated pilot in the top 10, you're not in that table at all.
• New order and affiliated pilots feature in 3 of the 4 empire league tables.

A lot of the new order guys are former miners, mission runners and people that would generally be denigrated as carebears, be supportive of their efforts to better themselves. People have been moaning for years that carebears ruin the game, yet when some step up to become more than that, they still get looked down upon by people such as yourself for not being "leet" PvPers.

None of that is lies, the kill and isk figures were pulled from evekill for both yourself and the NO top 5 killers, the hulkageddon league positions were pulled from the league tables, do your own research, put your ego away and try again, and I ain't your brah, bro, homie, pal or buddy.

you still havent provided proof that the guys are in new order. soo.... technically... get around me brah

I stand corrected, my apologies, I only quickly skimmed your kills.


In June their top 5 killers collectively clocked up 700+ kills for a value of 101 billion isk , you clocked up 529 with a value of 57.5 billion isk.

Good god are you really that so far up your own arse?

Points in order
I'm not mad, and I most definitely am not your brah (whatever that is I don't do american teen slang which is what I presume that is)
I'm not lying, the figures and facts are publicly available on both the hulkageddon league table and on evekill, go check them for yourself before calling me a liar, you're just making yourself look like an egotistical fool.
I'm considerably older than 13, by 3 decades.

Good god are you really that far up your own arse?

Points in order
I'm not mad, and I most definitely am not your brah (whatever that is I don't do american teen slang which is what I presume that is)
I'm not lying, the figures and facts are publicly available on both the hulkageddon league table and on evekill, go check them for yourself before calling me a liar, you're just making yourself look like an egotistical fool.
I'm considerably older than 13, by 3 decades.

you still havent provided proof that the guys are in new order. soo.... technically... get around me brah

Hulkageddon league tables
http://evewho.com/pilot/Runeme+Shilter #1 in the junior league, #3 in the solo killer league, #4 in the Gallente highsec league, #in the Caldari highsec league, current member of New Order Logistics
http://evewho.com/pilot/Botslayer+Goblin #2 in the junior league, #2 in the solo killer league, #2 in the Gallente highsec league, former member of New Order Logistics
http://evewho.com/pilot/PinkOboe #7 in the solo killer league, #8 in the Amarr highsec league, former member of New Order Logistics
http://evewho.com/pilot/Capt+Starfox #4 in the champions league, #5 in the solo killers league, #10 in the Amarr highsec league, #6 in the Caldari highsec league, former member of New Order Logistics

Need I go on brah?

As for paying 10 million? I have no need to, I don't mine on this character or in highsec, the ores are much better elsewhere.

Your killboard is pretty admirable, but you should really do some checking before boasting that you're better than the top 5 NO killers next time, and check your ego at the door.

Why do you use photoshop to tell your lies old man?

Hey bro I should ask james315 to bend over so you can lick his arse abit harder. hahahahaha.

let me know when any of those nubs you posted feel like moving to the big time brah, but still please provide proof.

Photoshop? what are you smoking and can I have some?
You are a troll, that much is obvious, kindly bugger off.

Hulkageddon league tables
http://evewho.com/pilot/Runeme+Shilter #1 in the junior league, #3 in the solo killer league, #4 in the Gallente highsec league, #in the Caldari highsec league, current member of New Order Logistics
http://evewho.com/pilot/Botslayer+Goblin #2 in the junior league, #2 in the solo killer league, #2 in the Gallente highsec league, former member of New Order Logistics
http://evewho.com/pilot/PinkOboe #7 in the solo killer league, #8 in the Amarr highsec league, former member of New Order Logistics
http://evewho.com/pilot/Capt+Starfox #4 in the champions league, #5 in the solo killers league, #10 in the Amarr highsec league, #6 in the Caldari highsec league, former member of New Order Logistics

Need I go on brah?

As for paying 10 million? I have no need to, I don't mine on this character or in highsec, the ores are much better elsewhere.

Your killboard is pretty admirable, but you should really do some checking before boasting that you're better than the top 5 NO killers next time, and check your ego at the door.

I think it is called the junior league for a reason.

But anyway i think its funny you took the time to search all of these to feel the need to provide proof being 43 and all

Also former new order pilots ala http://evewho.com/pilot/Botslayer+Goblin or http://evewho.com/pilot/Capt+Starfox that was nearly 6 months ago GTFO LOL

Irrelevant, your colleague asked for proof, I provided it, FYI Capt Starfox still ganks with the new order guys, Botslayer Goblin had a disagreement with someone and disappeared to do his own thing.

As for your friends insults, he should try harder, he's coming across as a disgruntled child with a bad case of myopia and nappy rash.

Irrelevant, your colleague asked for proof, I provided it, FYI Capt Starfox still ganks with the new order guys

Botslayer Goblin had a disagreement with someone and disappeared to do his own thing.

As for your friends insults, he should try harder, he's coming across as a disgruntled child with a bad case of myopia and nappy rash.

And you are coming across as a senile old man, so could you please relax

Senility is not to be laughed at, it's a horrible thing to see someone completely lose their marbles, just hope it doesn't happen to your loved ones.

Senility is not to be laughed at, it's a horrible thing to see someone completely lose their marbles, just hope it doesn't happen to your loved ones.

Irrelevant, your colleague asked for proof, I provided it, FYI Capt Starfox still ganks with the new order guys, Botslayer Goblin had a disagreement with someone and disappeared to do his own thing.

As for your friends insults, he should try harder, he's coming across as a disgruntled child with a bad case of myopia and nappy rash.

Oh its all so clear now, you are mad because you were stupid enough to "buy shares" in the "code" and feel like you need to protect your "investment"

Oh man that is shameful

http://www.minerbumping.com/p/shareholders.html CTRL+ F> search your name

Dont bother replying

/thread

Congratulations on your detective skills I've never hidden the fact that I'm a shareholder in the new order, as numerous forum posts by myself will show, now apply them to checking out the proofs I laid out earlier.

You sound upset friend. maybe you should take a break from video gayemz and get some real life into ya brah?

Nice try, but that's an old, old taunt, and really only works on the kiddies. Your ganking skills may be 'Leet, but your FlameWarrior skills suk.

and you got told grandpa.

go back to your all bran, i think they are having vegetable soup at the retirement sometime soon grandpa.

and thats thread. let me know when any of your investments step up to the big leagues old man.

I was once told to never get into an argument with idiots, because they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Never a truer word was said, well played.

Damn space pirates

Most of NO gankers are not inexperienced noobs. Some are sure, but weren't we all at some point.

Yes a lot of top NO gankers left to do other things, myself included. For a long time most Orcas and all miners feared those of us who ganked regularly with NO; and still should, we're just a clone jump away.

Actually I don't have anything else to write... loyalanon and friends great job keep ******* up highsec

My last suicide gank was 25 days ago: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18329069 idk about 6 months.

Damn space pirates

Most of NO gankers are not inexperienced noobs. Some are sure, but weren't we all at some point.

Yes a lot of top NO gankers left to do other things, myself included. For a long time most Orcas and all miners feared those of us who ganked regularly with NO; and still should, we're just a clone jump away.

Actually I don't have anything else to write... loyalanon and friends great job keep ******* up highsec

My last suicide gank was 25 days ago: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18329069 idk about 6 months.

7.When you communicate with The New Order put your tongue firmly in your cheek, do not put your foot in your mouth, never be armed to the teeth, be civil and learn how to use a spellchecker or youGÇÖll end up providing amusing entertainment as Mr Spark2Universe no doubt has.

tears

Show us on the dolly where the Bad Person touched you.

Just fell in love with a miner, my parents are going to kill me.

Oh, New Order is still carebearing in High-sec?

Allow me to retort.

Bwhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha. Losers.

[
hahaha nice try but please get upset more on the forums kid, your about an hour to late to try and comeback at me brah. let me know when you get with the program.

It was definetly in high-sec. Funny how there's no New Order bullshit in null.

I'm not familiar with the kind of thing I'm seeing here. Photoshopped links? Too young grandpas? Brahs all over the place? I feel like I'm in an 80s movie and the "bad kid" is just sputtering nonsense while lying on the ground after getting decked by Patrick Dempsey.

We need to fleet up more too. Now that we have better skills and mostly gank solo, we keep missing Mackinaw pods and we really struggle to euthanize Skiffs and Orcas at all.

That said, the number of Mackinaw kills is going up. If you don't believe me, check out the price history on the Mackinaw hull. I may or may not trade in such decadent mining equipment on the side.

We need to fleet up more too. Now that we have better skills and mostly gank solo, we keep missing Mackinaw pods and we really struggle to euthanize Skiffs and Orcas at all.

Learn to gank permits - special for the new world order

500mil

Kids these days. There is no reason to get upset. There are plenty of miners for everyone. Don't believe the FUD about "peak miner".

Miners refresh every day after downtime, with several peaks during the day. Usually they come with handy labels so you can check to which gaggle they belong. And even if you overhunt a certain gaggle to the point that they migrate you can always be assured of random miners dropping in from surrounding systems.
It is a very good system and best of all these miners seem to pay CCP for the privilege of being targets. What is not to like?

So this was part our adventure last night.

http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18775996
http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18775998
http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18765845

If the you are struggling to kills orca's or pod macks, you guys need to just give up, or we can teach you for the low low price of 500 million isk, this is a special one off price and is never to be repeated.

this bing bangboom person all he is doing is out and out extortion and from what i see he likes the attention he is getting, also noticed that when he gets a wardec he waits for the 24 hr timer to get close to expirie then drops corp and reforms a new one.

If you will click on my picture right over to the left you will see that I have only been in three non NPC corps in my existence and have never dropped out of one to end a wardec. I fight my own battles and redeem my own kill rights. Guilty as charged on the attention w*!(#e comment.

In fact, if you go to www.minerbumping.com, click on FORUM and read "Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war" you will see that I LIKE wars and only let them expire when my opponents meet my terms. Those terms being to buy a mining permit and follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct for offending members of the corp or alliance.

No, the real problem that people have with me is that I (loudly) enforce The Code where ever I land. The usual defiance by the local bot aspirants leads inevitably to bumped Macks and exploded Retrievers and tears and threats and general epeen waving and finally, realization that the New Order DOES control the mining in the systems we claim and that they are powerless to stop me (except for Jennifer en Marland and The Saint Tsero who I do admit slow me down a bit).

Anyone interested in seeing what emergent gameplay looks like is invited to come to Kino and witness what saving highsec looks like. Just don't try to mine without a permit there.

Also confirming that Ghosteagle Knight is not my alt and any appearance that this is a disquised attempt to get more publicity for me is completely coincidental.

(Mention James 315 more, you idiot!)

Oh yeah, praise James 315.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

BIng Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

If you will click on my picture right over to the left you will see that I have only been in three non NPC corps in my existence and have never dropped out of one to end a wardec. I fight my own battles and redeem my own kill rights. Guilty as charged on the attention w*!(#e comment.

In fact, if you go to www.minerbumping.com, click on FORUM and read "Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war" you will see that I LIKE wars and only let them expire when my opponents meet my terms. Those terms being to buy a mining permit and follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct for offending members of the corp or alliance.

No, the real problem that people have with me is that I (loudly) enforce The Code where ever I land. The usual defiance by the local bot aspirants leads inevitably to bumped Macks and exploded Retrievers and tears and threats and general epeen waving and finally, realization that the New Order DOES control the mining in the systems we claim and that they are powerless to stop me (except for Jennifer en Marland and The Saint Tsero who I do admit slow me down a bit).

Anyone interested in seeing what emergent gameplay looks like is invited to come to Kino and witness what saving highsec looks like. Just don't try to mine without a permit there.

Also confirming that Ghosteagle Knight is not my alt and any appearance that this is a disquised attempt to get more publicity for me is completely coincidental.

(Mention James 315 more, you idiot!)

Oh yeah, praise James 315.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

BIng Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

The usual defiance by the local bot aspirants leads inevitably to bumped Macks and exploded Retrievers and tears and threats and general epeen waving

First off i have no use for you or your petty attempts and getting me to visit your site as it is all some sort of propaganda and Space Garbage which is what you and JAMES 315 are. and yes you are not me nor is this your alt. this is my account and thank god i have nothing to do with you or your stupid wannabe new order that think they can rule over real people in a virtual world. you are and will only be virtual to me and i feel sorry for anyone who believes in the BS you spew forth. You are nothing but a virtual thug. Oh yeah and i forgot one last thing,

JAMES 315
JAMES 315
JAMES 315

GO SUCK A VIRTUAL ROCK

My skills are a bit higher now (I've trained Surgical Strike 4 and Rapid Firing 5 since my last gank, SS 5 in queue) and so hopefully I'll get a few more. Sadly anti-tanked Macks are rare.

Well to a point i can see and get part of what this new order is doing but make legit miners pay for protection is a scam anyway you look at it, so you might as well call it what it is, i meen come on if you can't see a wolf in sheeps clothing then something is very wrong with all of you who buy into this crap of James 315 and his new order cult

...spoken like a true miner. The word is "mean." "Sheep's" has an apostrophe. You are also missing a couple commas.

Capital I's you missed them

James and his merry band of gankers aren't wolves in sheep's clothing, they're open about what they do, and have fun wrapping it in rhetoric and role play. The wolf in sheep's clothing is the guy hiding in plain sight and providing the warpin.

If they really wanted to make a statement, they would embrace nonviolent protest like Gandhi. But they don't. Instead, the miners spew vile rage and hate-filled words in local when agents of the New Order arrive to enforce the Code.

This is why I am such an ardent supporter of the New Order. Someone has to bring order to the chaos. If you have ever seen the disgusting things that go on in ice fields you would understand. Ice is a limited resource we must protect, much like the rain forest and glaciers. Already we have seen the results of what happens when greedy industrialists suck our resources dry. There are no longer vast supplies of ice in high sec because miners were greedy and mined more than what they needed. If we don't stop them, there will be no more ice in high sec.

We all have a duty, not just to James 315, but to the whole community. We must protect high sec from the greedy miners. We must take a stand and do what's right. We must insist that those who do mine do so responsibly and within the Code. For the non-compliant, it is our duty to destroy the illegal mining vessels. Not just the saviour's duty, not just the knights' duty, but it is the duty of us all who want to make Eve a better place.

Unlike the many bystanders that like to complain about how High-sec getting nerfed by CCP and the High-sec miners get complacent and lazy. WE at the New Order are out there every day. Cleaning up the ice anoms and roid belts. These CareBears lost sight of RULE #1 Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Not only do they ignore that but they fly untanked and afk most of the time.We at the New Order work hard at providing risk to high-sec mining. We provide a CODE of Conduct to follow as to improve there ingame game play. Those who follow the CODE experience a better EVE and help build a better EVE.

Praise James 315 for all he has done for EVE.


Black
929

You spell bad. It Loose not lose, lrn2play real Eve way not like some crystaltips wannabe.

It Loose not lose

Just came in to say, no. No. No.

*incoherent rambling*

In your case, drunk posting is NOT best posting.

...spoken like a true miner. The word is "mean." "Sheep's" has an apostrophe. You are also missing a couple commas.

I'm thinking a combination of any or all of the following
drunk, troll, goon, russian, testie, google translate.

What?! Russians LOL

You bo say that to the Gulag Gang in my belt. Them apples mess you up bad. You try going cockerel then, dimbulb.

Lets face it, folks. When it comes to ganking, I'm a klutz. Anyone who falls to my guns is bad, and should feel bad. So why do they continue to fall?

You're the guy who tried to gank my untanked buzzard on a gate and failed. How does that happen?

I am a highsec miner.

What should I do?
1) Just be more aware and work on paranoia?
2) Go to higher-sec? (0.9-1.0 vs 0.5-0.6)
3) Tank up and go for a Skiff when the time comes?
4) Try to find a corp where I could be a mostly solo miner? (Do such things even exist?)
5) Quit the game.

Trolls, bait and flame away. /wave at Loyalanon, I see you hunting in my systems all the time.

What should I do?
1) Just be more aware and work on paranoia?
2) Go to higher-sec? (0.9-1.0 vs 0.5-0.6)
3) Tank up and go for a Skiff when the time comes?
4) Try to find a corp where I could be a mostly solo miner? (Do such things even exist?)
5) Quit the game.

What should I do?
1) Just be more aware and work on paranoia?
2) Go to higher-sec? (0.9-1.0 vs 0.5-0.6)
3) Tank up and go for a Skiff when the time comes?
4) Try to find a corp where I could be a mostly solo miner? (Do such things even exist?)
5) Quit the game.

Trolls, bait and flame away. /wave at Loyalanon, I see you hunting in my systems all the time.

So responding to this thread at all is probably a Very Bad Idea, but this topic (at least the topic the thread started with) has been on my mind for a while, so I figured that I might as well go ahead and ask my questions. Trolls will flame me. Some people might offer useful advice. Life will go on.

Ah, how much I have learned. I keep my combat drones out all of the time, I keep my UI clear and set to show me just other players, I move my ass when I see anything other than another miner near me, I recognize the killers in my system and am extra cautious when they are on, etc. I always have my client visible on a second monitor while I work on other stuff. I've also learned some of the reasons that people do it. Seems like a bit of RPing, and a bit of general frat boy chest-beating, but w/e. Mining is not for them just like ganking is not for me.

What should I do?
1) Just be more aware and work on paranoia?
2) Go to higher-sec? (0.9-1.0 vs 0.5-0.6)
3) Tank up and go for a Skiff when the time comes?
4) Try to find a corp where I could be a mostly solo miner? (Do such things even exist?)
5) Quit the game.

4) All manner of corps exist - My main is in a corp where you can pretty much do as you please, when you please - It mostly exists to allow a bunch of like-minded free-spirits to set up and hold a tower in W-Space. Think 'Communal flop-house for neck-bearded anarchists.' Everyone puts a little into the collection jar and in return, they get a secure refuge.

IOW, I was doing fairly well. It seems to me that you should be, as well - two losses in a couple months? Unless you're seriously pimping out your hulls, you should be doing OK.

The problem with paying the NO folks is that it's not really protection; there seem to be plenty folks out there who gank for entertainment and cannot be bought. Then again, if NO patrolled an area and defended the miners who paid them, 10M/yr would be an unbelievable deal.

I think you may be having some issues when it comes to your definition of 'PVP' You think of combat ship to combat ship engagements, when PVP simply means player vs player.

The New Order is dedicated to eliminating a problem in Hi Sec, that problem, of course is reckless, wasteful unrestrained and lawless mining. 100% of that problem is caused by players, be they bots or afk miners, they are still players and not NPC's. That accounts for the first P.

The second P is obviously the brave players who make up the New Order. They have dedicated their lives to saving Eve from lawless mining. That is their sworn mandate and in making it a reality they must engage in the V.

I would argue the New Order are fairly elite at what they do. Calling them elite PVP seems perfectly natural.

If suddenly massive NPC mining fleets showed up in space and started hoovering up asteroids with no semblance of law, the New Order would quickly become a PVE organization. I certainly believe they would be elite at that as well.

And before anyone gets any angrier, remember that if you are out there mining legally, the New Order are PVP'ing for you. They want to see that your ability to make a decent living is protected against the deflation in prices for your products that one certainly sees in a world full of illegal unrestrained miners dumping their wares on the market.

They do PVP.
They are elite.
They do it for you.

You know, it just keeps getting better.

I gotta admit, I read the minerbumping blog.

Take, for example, this quote, available from minerbumping:

"The New Order is a welcoming bunch. We gain power by inviting people in, not excluding them. This is what distinguishes us from other elite PvP outfits. However, it's still important for new members to make a clean break with their dark past."

I don't think we're too far apart on this any more Leto. We agree the New Order engages in PVP. That, of course is like being pregnant, there are no levels, you either are or you are not. The New Order's tasks involve players against players.

We're still stumbling over the elite aspect. I suppose I could agree with you that the New Order are not elite at their PVP if you could point me to anyone who does what they do better. Until you can, I am afraid that they will be the most elite anti-miner PVP outfit in the galaxy, in my eyes at least.

I do find your racing analogies troublesome however. PVP is not a competition. It is a means to an end. That end can be a contest, as we all saw over the last few weeks in the alliance tournament, but it can be many other things as well. PL commited acts of elite PVP when they won a dueling contest by V'ing other players. The New Order commits acts of elite PVP when they vanquish troublesome miners with a level of completeness and efficiency that I have seen no others in Eve match.

The race analogies imply that PVP exists only for the act of PVP. It is not a sport and it need not be sporting to raise its practitioners into the ranks of the elite. PVP need only be employed as a means to an end, and if employed with the most progress towards that end of all others employing it to that same end, well I sure would call that elite.

Please. CONCORD podding in next patch.

That will change things how? Suicide gank alts are for the most part low SP highly specialised characters with a couple of cheap gunnery implants, Concord podding them will make absolutely no difference to them at all. Clone costs and replacement implants are already factored into the potential profit (in isk or lols) and risk calculation.

Please. CONCORD podding in next patch.

I'm all for CONCORD podding gankers.. and sleepers podding wh residents.. Sansha podding incursion runners.. Serpentis .. Blood Raiders..

How hysterical would it be to have a miner with a 1.5bil isk pod floating in a belt, AFK of course, get podded by the belt rats. Tears would flow like rain from the sky.

Unlike a minivan race, I think everyone wants to see a hisec full of compliant, at-keyboard miners.

And when it comes to working towards the above, I think the New Order fits your posted definition of elite to a T. If they are not the best, who is better?

Alas it seems we shall have to agree to disagree. I've had fun talking about this with you. You're a stand-up guy.

I dont care if miners are AFK.

Please, tell me how being at their keyboard affects anything? Do they manually control the mining laser? (Maybe not a bad idea for the next update, IMO... sorta like hacking... but I digress..)

Agree to disagree is fine by me, because Ill never think ganking something that does not shoot back is epic or elite. Oh, you got a miner, wow. That was tough.

...

They do PVP.
They are elite.
They do it for you.

I am a carebear, former miner, and current industrialist. When I started EVE it was with a couple friends and we generally played together. When we mined two of us would mine, one would haul, and the other three.... would stand guard in combat ships. Those guys are long gone

there are things even more boring than mining... guarding miners. no wonder they are long gone.

non-AFK mining to me seems like a very fast route into insanity.

I'd cry far more if I had to actually be there mining (in high-sec) than about the occasional loss of a barge (but well, I don't have a billion in implants to lose anyway).

The whole soul-crushing boredom thing is why I try to mine as little as possible anymore. Every time I lock onto a rock it starts whispering to me to kill my own kind, just to save them from this living hell...

That exact thing happened to me; was ready to unsub even. Then I found the New Order, and did just what the voices in my head had been telling me to do. My therapist says I'm doing much better now.

(I love you Pfeils Goodman)

If they changed the mining system to be more like the new hacking stuff, ie a minigame to randomly break lose chunks of ore/ice and have to click to suck them up, that would be an improvement, it would certainly reduce the number of bots and bot aspirants by a huge number (at least from mining ice and ore).

But why is it a problem to afk? how does it affect other players? Okay here is a short illustrated explanation:

Bobbi comes into the Ice anomaly, sets herself up nice, with her alts and boosting orca then gets her lasers going, she then heads off out to the shops for 3/4 of an hour.

Lauri happens to come across this anomaly, in a purely rational economic transaction, scans Bobbi's Macs and finds two of them have some form of faction mod. Mining op dies a fiery death, Lauri and her hauler alt scoop some nice loot and go sell it in Jita.

Bobbi comes back from the shop, finds all her Macs have been either nuked & podded or bumped out of the belt and to add insult to injury her Orca has been ganked by a passing Goonwaffe whaling fleet. She immediately logs on the forums and bleats about how unfair things are, why did anyone pick on her? Isnt is a Eula violation to bump/gank, curses James 315, curses :Goons:, now she is going to have to cancel her 4 subs, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

DEVNerfbats comes along reads 20-30 threads filled with such similar complaints all demanding action, because the 'player' victim has no intention of doing anything at all to protect themselves yet feel noisily entitled to some special protection from the rest of eve, and he then has to 'think of the subs' TM.
He decides to buff Barge EHP so that a petty little nuisance like Lauri cannot solo gank untanked Exhumers & barges in most circumstances. 'God' in the Person of DEVNerfbats has from his Olympian Terrace made a unilateral change to the rules of engagement for all Eve players.

This is a cycle that has repeated itself several times now with a large number of bops from the nerfbat to gankers and other forms of high sec piracy and it has consequences.
The rise of the New Order, and prior to that Hulkageddon, Burn Jita, MiniLuv and so on, each a violent reaction to the attempted removal of risk for the entitled AFKers.

In short.

Those careless fools who are Afking 10s of Billions of isk through high sec in Charon shaped Pinata, Macs/Hulks/Skiffs/20-40m TII salvage along with any mods that drop just idling in belts whilst doing something more interesting instead of checking local, idiots autopiloting shuttles with High Grade Snake Clones, they get what comes to them, the special pleading for protection for them is insulting to all actual players, they deserve to get ganked.

Ill just say this, you guys make much more sense when you explain things rather than yammer on about the code or whatnot. Highlighting cause/effect makes much more sense (to me) than just killing off miners in the name of James (who i still think is a douche), but now I get where your coming from.

Lol.. I love it.

Im not beyond admitting error. I suppose I was just listening to the one sided story of the desperate miners. I especially agree about the autopiloting... I had a rather silly error myself a few months ago, using autopilot while wardecced. (Yeah, I know.) Taught me a valuable lesson though. I wasnt AFK, just too n00bish to not know that AP is just a bad idea.

Ill just say this, you guys make much more sense when you explain things rather than yammer on about the code or whatnot. Highlighting cause/effect makes much more sense (to me) than just killing off miners in the name of James (who i still think is a douche), but now I get where your coming from.

Anyone who can admit they are wrong has a fan in me. I'm always wrong about something and it is nice when I get to see things from another perspective and just get that oh god I'm totally wrong feeling means I just learned something.

Anyway I'll just need that 10m isk for your mining permit now, either that or get yourself in a cat and get punishing code violators, you know you want to

Your thoughts on James, that's probably due to just coming across him 'in character' in the game environment with your normal eve persona, and not seeing his, admittedly enormous, posts on high sec nerfs and so on, have a look under the links section in Minerbumping.com, there's some in depth thinking on these issues from the Saviour himself.

That'll be because 90% of your kills are in lowsec, where you don't have to avoid Concord, the Faction Navy or wait out GCCs in station. Highsec is a different kettle of fish, go and try it.

You, sir, are a model other miners should emulate.

You are playing EVE, not ISK Progressquest.

If your competition are causing you trouble, sit next to them in a Skiff and tell the Order you'll provide warpins.

Ganking an unarmed mining barge. how it is epic or less a carebear way to play ?

Actually, a Ret+T2 modules worth around 50M, i do four time that with my afk miner alt by day. so well i loose a Ret once a Week, and so what ? I've allways one or two ready in station. As i have BP for Ret+modules, it's even less than 50M for me.

I rather loose a ship than giving anything to that guys, i follow my own rules. I use Teamviewer so i mine afk all day, even on my smartphone, at work, while shopping, when i do sport ! that's funny.

i'm AFK yeah, it's cool and i pay my fee to CCP to play the game the way i want.

So James 315, his mate, their code, they can go to hell, i really don't care about them !

4.I often ask my local fellow miners if theyGÇÖd like to fleet. ItGÇÖs a friendly gesture, since we both make more ISK and IGÇÖve always paid the communication fee for new contacts. Generally IGÇÖm met with suspicion, stony silence or a few lame excuses. Sure, I understand that my fellow miner may not understand English, or that they may only be online a little while longer GǪ.but JeezGǪno wonder weGÇÖre a hunted bunch.

Guarding miners is just as boring, really, but generally the guards should be getting compensated.

How? been trying to for a while, even posted in your forums asking the same question. Send me a mail or eve mail of a contact window, the AFK miners and muti-boxers in my area are getting out of hand I am training up a ganker of my own, but it's far from ready.

Pfeils Goodman & Laurianne Leone, love your posts in this thread, your patience and explanation on how afk (botting) can kill a game on outstanding.

So James 315, his mate, their code, they can go to hell, i really don't care about them !

That's fine. You may not believe in the Code, but the Code believes in you. Agents of the CODE are seeking you even now, to bring you the good news.

I am harder to bite than a mining barge.

You can hide it behind all the lame roleplay or false religion that you want, the truth is that you do it because you find it funny and don't want to take any risk in low/null sec. Nothing else than that don't pretend to be saviors of anything that just laughtable.

Game Mechanics allow you to do that, you've learn how to dodge concord or pull them far enough to prenvent them to come in time.
But it's a PvE fight. shooting at an unarmed barge after pulling some NPC ? you call it PvP ?

I am harder to bite than a mining barge.

You can hide it behind all the lame roleplay or false religion that you want, the truth is that you do it because you find it funny and don't want to take any risk in low/null sec. Nothing else than that don't pretend to be saviors of anything that just laughtable.

Game Mechanics allow you to do that, you've learn how to dodge concord or pull them far enough to prenvent them to come in time.
But it's a PvE fight. shooting at an unarmed barge after pulling some NPC ? you call it PvP ?

Please.
You post like you know me. You know nothing. It's clear you haven't even looked up the publicly available information on me. That's just lazy.

Meanwhile, I'm in your head, pushing your buttons. Which of us has the upper hand?

Seems that i hit the sensible case. you know what ? only truth hurts. False religion for joking and trolling at best, or a bunch of totaly nuts griefers, in anyway, the result is the same. Without hisec miners, you'll never have anything to fly on. They are part of the economy and really don't need a crazy sheperd coming from god know where.

I can't stop laughing when i see you all trying to justify yourself.

See, this is the funniest part. I'm not a member of the New Order. Not even an egent. If you'd bothered to do your research, even in *this* thread, you'd have known that.

Hook, line, and sinker. How does it feel to be a fish?

And ? you expressed your point of view, i expressed mine. that you are actually part or just agree with them or even just doing this for the sake of being a "forum warrior" whatever. the result is the same, you/they can do it because the game allow it, but trying to justify it by a "religious" belief, or roleplay is weird.

Your powers of necromancy are fearsome.

But in a good cause.

Did you somehow miss the bit where the religious zealotry and roleplay are satire? Not to mention really really effective at producing hilarious chat logs.

The problem is you think the PvP started when the ganker pressed F1.

You are aware that you can shoot fleetmembers without concord bothering to check if this friendly fire truly IS friendly ?

I am harder to bite than a mining barge.

You can hide it behind all the lame roleplay or false religion that you want, the truth is that you do it because you find it funny and don't want to take any risk in low/null sec. Nothing else than that don't pretend to be saviors of anything that just laughtable.

Game Mechanics allow you to do that, you've learn how to dodge concord or pull them far enough to prenvent them to come in time.
But it's a PvE fight. shooting at an unarmed barge after pulling some NPC ? you call it PvP ?

I think the RP aspect is very relevant actually, and DOES justify this activity. HiSec, without any element of risk, can be pretty boring. New Order and their band of merry murderers are spicing things up in the systems they operate in by adding risk to a profession that is so damned boring it's not funny.

RP aside, they're also doing a favor to those who actively mine... while at their keys, for the minerals they need. It can be infuriating as a miner who's trying to eke out a living by harvesting some resources for their industrial projects, only to have a swarm of afk bot-wannabes drop into their belt and procede to devour all the roids in record time.

Rather than whinge, criticize or suggest these folks go to null/lowsec my recommendation is to adapt. If you must think of mining as a PVE activity, don't forget the E part of that. Your environment is more than the pretty space backdrop you float in, the other players in the game do influence it. If you fail to adapt to changes in said environment then you are going to have a a hard time with it.

Personally, I've never had a barge/exhumer ganked, but that's not for lack of trying. On the occasions I've had folks try generally by the time they started locking onto me I was already well into warping away. The only reason I wasn't space junk in those situations is that I never for one second assumed I was safe. I have to admit, it also made mining almost exciting when that happened tho. Not afraid of losing my ship any more, more worried about getting popped while driving something that's shitfit, as it's just embarrassing.

false religion