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Digital Messiah
Heroic Era
286
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Posted - 2013.05.25 01:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Typhoon
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 6 turrets(+1) , 6 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU(+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+400) / 1087s / 4.97 (+.3)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11(-.006) / 100600000(-3000000) / 15.8s(-1.16s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 125(-50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+5k) / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 330(+10)
Raven
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(-500) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)
I currently fly minmatar and would be closer to getting a typhoon after training missiles up. 4 months for perfect missile skills. Is the Raven going to be extraordinarily better for any reason?
Join a Heroic Era today! |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
222
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Posted - 2013.05.25 03:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Short answer .....YES
The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
9562
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Posted - 2013.05.25 03:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Short answer .....YES
The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom
Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion?
1 Kings 12:11
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Atlas Arnst
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.25 05:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Raven isn't that much better than the Typhoon, the 25% explosive velocity bonus is worth a lot more than the 50% missile velocity bonus in my opinion, just fly whatever you think you'll enjoy flying, honestly with the massive cruise missile buffs they're both viable. |
hellcane
Never Back Down
53
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Posted - 2013.05.25 12:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
The fleet issue versions are where things get interesting in this discussion. |
stoicfaux
2754
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Posted - 2013.05.25 13:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Both hulls can mount the same effective missile DPS. The only real differences are:
a) the Typhoon has a "free" missile explosion velocity rig. This frees up a rig slot or it gives you a small applied missile dps advantage over the Raven.
b) the Raven has faster missiles. 7km/s versus 9km/s.
c) the Typhoon has twice the drone bandwidth of the Raven
d) in the context of mission running, against Angels you should be able to fly with a three slot shield tank, which lets you put 4 BCUs and 2 DDAs in the lows. The DDAs increase sentry damage.
e) the Raven shield tanks, whereas the Typhoon armor tanks.
tl;dr They're essentially the same in regards to applied missile DPS. The differences are in tank, drones, speed, sig size and targeting range.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
678
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Posted - 2013.05.25 13:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Twice the amount of drones.
More speed and better agility.
Signature close to that of BC's.
Far superior missile damage application.
The Raven's addition range only impacts PvE as CM will still be largely useless as sniper weapons, applied damage on the other hand benefits both PvE and PvP.
It is a clear cut case of 'no-contest' if you ask me. At least until CCP come out balls swinging with a solution to make missiles viable in extreme range engagements.
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Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.05.25 15:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hi,
I am a minmatar myself and I love typhoon and new typhoon fleet issue will be very good.I had typhoons and ravens so the thing is that typhoon armor tanking is great and with low skills can do level 4 missions .But if you have good skills and you know how to fly a raven navy you ll say WOW.It's better since it uses lows for pure damage and maybe one damage control while typhoon uses lows for armor tanking so you lose to damage a lot.I think you should go for typhoon fleet issue gather money and then buy a raven navy issue and learn how to fly it. |
Kosetzu
Aeons Multiplied
71
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Posted - 2013.05.25 17:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't see any problem with shield tanking the phoon, I'd probably prefer the shield tank at least for PvE. I think the real differences will be in the navy versions of the ships. |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
223
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Posted - 2013.05.25 17:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DHB WildCat wrote:Short answer .....YES
The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion?
Sure 10 vs 10 .....
I would be surprised if the ravens lose 1 ship. All those mids for ew. Phoon is only a pve boat. For pvp, Phoon is a joke with 4 mids on a missile ship. |
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Atlas Arnst
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.25 17:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Malcanis wrote:DHB WildCat wrote:Short answer .....YES
The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion? Sure 10 vs 10 ..... I would be surprised if the ravens lose 1 ship. All those mids for ew. Phoon is only a pve boat. For pvp, Phoon is a joke with 4 mids on a missile ship. 4 Mids? What are you smoking the Odyssey Typhoon has 5 mids, for PVP you're going to have to armor tank it. |
Predator989
People of Random Nature
0
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Posted - 2013.05.25 17:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Malcanis wrote:DHB WildCat wrote:Short answer .....YES
The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom Interesting... I'd have thought you'd have been all over the new phoons. Would you care to expand on your opinion? Sure 10 vs 10 ..... I would be surprised if the ravens lose 1 ship. All those mids for ew. Phoon is only a pve boat. For pvp, Phoon is a joke with 4 mids on a missile ship.
Isn't at 5 mids now once the changes go live?
So far I like how both of them look, but to this day I still refuse to fly Caldari =P |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
753
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Posted - 2013.05.25 17:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Short answer .....YES
The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom
Actually, no. As it stands right now and Navy Phoon slots layout/bonus+missile changes, this ship will simply be OP over everything else at simple condition: get all the related skills to the top but if you have it already, N Phoons will eat CNRs all day long in all aspects.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
223
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Posted - 2013.05.25 21:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:DHB WildCat wrote:Short answer .....YES
The Raven will make the phoon cry to mom Actually, no. As it stands right now and Navy Phoon slots layout/bonus+missile changes, this ship will simply be OP over everything else at simple condition: get all the related skills to the top but if you have it already, N Phoons will eat CNRs all day long in all aspects.
I stand corrected on the 5 mids, thank you for pointing that out. PVP wise..... I'll just point to SCL 3, and let you watch how ravens and CNRs eat everything. Phoons wouldnt have a chance.
Nano ravens with damps and tp's. Just as fast as phoon.... Burn Eden anyone? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1118
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Posted - 2013.05.26 03:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yes, you can shield tank the new Phon, with its 5 mids. Phon is clearly superior to Raven, unless you use torps. And you shouldn't use torps in Odyssey.
Naturally, this is for pve. If you pvp with missile BS anytime for the better part of the past decade, you should biomass yourself...
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Ireland VonVicious
Vendetta Syndicate
138
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Posted - 2013.05.26 03:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Yes, you can shield tank the new Phon, with its 5 mids. Phon is clearly superior to Raven, unless you use torps. And you shouldn't use torps in Odyssey. Naturally, this is for pve. If you pvp with missile BS anytime for the better part of the past decade, you should biomass yourself...
Exceptions: Scorpion for the EW or Rattlesnake which is more of a drone boat. |
Kosetzu
Aeons Multiplied
71
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Posted - 2013.05.26 05:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Yes, you can shield tank the new Phon, with its 5 mids. Phon is clearly superior to Raven, unless you use torps. And you shouldn't use torps in Odyssey. Naturally, this is for pve. If you pvp with missile BS anytime for the better part of the past decade, you should biomass yourself...
Tell that to the CNR fleets destroying people |
Lemok Sonji
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
55
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Posted - 2013.05.26 08:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:
I currently fly minmatar and would be closer to getting a typhoon after training missiles up. 4 months for perfect missile skills. Is the Raven going to be extraordinarily better for any reason?
Basically, you can make the typhoon as good as a raven, if a bit better.
You get a free flare rig, you can make it shield tank fine with its slots layout, it can move faster, less signature radios, you can lay it out to out-tank the raven.
It also depends on where you plan to go.
If you skill for caldari and eventually go to a CNR, the typhoon route doesn't mean that much.
If you plan to stick to T1 hulls, get a typhoon. |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
172
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Posted - 2013.05.27 08:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
For PvE Depends on how good your skills and equipment are.
The claimed "Shield" Phoon has 5 meds. You need to use 2 of these meds with TP's to have a chance at decent damage application. That leaves you with 3 slots for tanking/propmods/capboosters. Some people say they can pull this off. I know I can't.
When you do that all yo-Śr lows are to amplify your damage. You can boost missile damage and drone damage and you get a dps monster.
Other way to go is armor tanking, which is less efficient than shield tanking for PvE purposes.5 slots for armor tank leaves you with 2 slots for bcu and 5 meds for tps, omnis, cap boosters, propmods or whatever. Lack of BCU's hurt dps, though you'll be making up for it with drones. Again if you are ballsy and go with lower amount of armor mods for tank you get higher dps, but again I know I can't. I also see a new niche for phoon in PvE: Armor Incursion Fleets.
For PvP it depends on your fleet composition. If you are in a shield fleet, then Raven gets better toys to play with (damps, td's) while phoon gets more raw damage via drones. Honestly I would prefer a raven in a shield fleet as that missile velocity bonus will mean less delay in applied damage, which is critical for pvp. Not to forget the extra meds. Drone damage is not that reliable in PvP anyway.
For Armor fleets it will be phoon. No contest there. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
Aeterna Anima
82
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Posted - 2013.05.27 09:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Deerin wrote:For PvE Depends on how good your skills and equipment are.
The claimed "Shield" Phoon has 5 meds. You need to use 2 of these meds with TP's to have a chance at decent damage application. That leaves you with 3 slots for tanking/propmods/capboosters. Some people say they can pull this off. I know I can't.
When you do that all yo-Śr lows are to amplify your damage. You can boost missile damage and drone damage and you get a dps monster.
Other way to go is armor tanking, which is less efficient than shield tanking for PvE purposes.5 slots for armor tank leaves you with 2 slots for bcu and 5 meds for tps, omnis, cap boosters, propmods or whatever. Lack of BCU's hurt dps, though you'll be making up for it with drones. Again if you are ballsy and go with lower amount of armor mods for tank you get higher dps, but again I know I can't. I also see a new niche for phoon in PvE: Armor Incursion Fleets.
For PvP it depends on your fleet composition. If you are in a shield fleet, then Raven gets better toys to play with (damps, td's) while phoon gets more raw damage via drones. Honestly I would prefer a raven in a shield fleet as that missile velocity bonus will mean less delay in applied damage, which is critical for pvp. Not to forget the extra meds. Drone damage is not that reliable in PvP anyway.
For Armor fleets it will be phoon. No contest there.
Good analysis.
It might be worth saying, that the Typhoon is probably the better ship for people annoyed by the awful cycle time of TPs. Going without TPs and compensating with full rigor would be an option for the Typhoon, that the Raven won't have.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
Intrepid Crossing
89
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Posted - 2013.05.27 11:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
In my opinion Typhoon will be slightly better for PvE than Raven.
The missile dps is about the same with typhoon having slightly easier time applying it. What tilts the scales, however, in my opinion, is the better speed / agility of the typhoon. I would shield tank it btw. Has only 5 mids, but thats enough to tank if you want to. And you have enough lows to spare one for DCU if you need additional resists.
Anyway - so something on the lines of
6x Cruise
1x MWD or Afterburner, 4x slots for tank or MJD or whatever.
4x BCU 3x Something else (drone damage ?)
There is plenty of missions with 40+ travel distances between gates.
Now I'm not entirely convinced that the new cruise are enough to make BS size hulls better than Tengus for missionsruunning but at first glance the step seem to be significant enough to justify giving them a try.
Edit: After looking into it I would say the speed difference under the propulsion mod between Typhoon and Raven is neglible in the order of few percents in the favor of typhoon.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!*
GOT the bastard. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
648
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Posted - 2013.05.28 14:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kosetzu wrote:I don't see any problem with shield tanking the phoon, I'd probably prefer the shield tank at least for PvE. I think the real differences will be in the navy versions of the ships.
I have been shield tanking a typhoon for level 4 missions for a while now, have not used mt raven since. The fact that I have been buying fleet issue typhoons for well under 300 mil also helps. Typhoon can shield tank just as well as the raven if you use a rig slot or two for resistance rigs. Not to mention the typhoon with split weapons between missiles, AC's, and a full flight of sentry drones can do much higher DPS. Fitting a phoon for over 1000 DPS is easy with good skills, and that DPS reaches out to 50km, short range with torps I can get it up to 1400 DPS.
My normal mission fit sits at around 850 DPS with a strong shield tank. After Odyssey both the normal phoon and fleet issue get even better. Although I am not happy about losing the 5th sentry on the normal typhoon. I expect after Odyssey the Fleet typhoon will be a top contender for level 4 missions. |
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