| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3449
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Posted - 2013.05.31 00:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Super spikinator wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade? It isn't a minority. It is a majority. Thankfully, it looks like only around 10-15% of Eve players are still running on XP. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2954304#post2954304
You can run Windows 7 without a DX11 capable graphics card.
While my desktop supports DX11, I like being able to do my industry stuff from my laptop when I travel.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 01:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well it's obvious you've bought into the misconception of "bigger numbers are always better in computing, right!?"
I bet you're one of those people who buys desktops with 32 GB of RAM.
Mine has 20g of RAM. Not because I need it, just because it came with 4 and a 16gig kit was not significantly more expensive than an 8gig kit. (I think in some circumstances I would be better off ripping the 2x2gig stick kit out and leaving myself with 2 empty slots, but I digress). RAM's gotten so cheap that it's no longer a good barometer of someone's epeen numbers addiction.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
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Posted - 2013.06.18 22:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Klandi wrote:I personally think that the question should be - when will the client be able to used multi-cored processors efficiently. If that requires a 64bit re-write then that I'm all for.
Wouldn't it be nice to specify the priority and spread of client accounts over several processors out of the launcher...
Is that even do-able?
The architecture (64bit vs 32bit) the client is written for has nothing to do with the ability to split the thread over multiple cores. Being able to split the load over multiple cores is only useful for certain applications.
As for multiple clients, your Operating System should shunt the processes around as needed to efficiently allocate processing resources.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 23:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers... EQ2 got them in 2009. WoW got them around 2011. EvE??? EVE's server has been 64-bit since September 2008. If I may refer you to my devblog at the time: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve64/
DevBlogged!
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 05:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers... EQ2 got them in 2009. WoW got them around 2011. EvE??? EVE's server has been 64-bit since September 2008. If I may refer you to my devblog at the time: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve64/ Meanwhile...running 3x WoW clients @ 64bit. 1+1=2RubyPorto wrote:DevBlogged! No...WoWed. 
You seem confused about the difference between a server and a client.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3550
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 08:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:You seem confused about the difference between a server and a client. My first computer was a kit built Timex-Sinclair back in 1983. Were you even born then to built one? RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients....................... 
When you're running 3 clients, you're running 3 separate processes and your 64 bit Operating system will take care of assigning appropriate memory space.
The fact that the Process is 32 bit limits that process and that process only to 4GB ram (it doesn't magically limit other processes of the same type). You can run 2^32 maxed out 32-bit processes without running out of addressable space on the OS.
Have you... learned anything about computers since building that Timex-Sinclair?
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3551
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 11:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients....................... If you run multiple clients then each has its own addressable memory space. Well to be fair, it doesn't work like that on a Timex Sinclair. Oh, and don't forget picking up the dev's hat on the way out, CSM.
Yep, agreeing with a Dev on a matter of objective, easily referenced fact is clear evidence of toadyism.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3551
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 14:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:Tippia wrote:Barakach wrote:1) Certain algorithms are much faster when using 64bit registers
2) 64bit mode has many more general purpose registers
3) 64bit mode has a few more SIMD registers
4) 64bit mode removes some legacy cruft and adds some extra niceties for the compiler GǪand EVE would benefit from that? Those are just generalities. What would be the benefit for EVE? I hate to tell you but faster running algorithms, would improve the large scale fleet encounters, and a lot of other items that are math heavy, so ANY thing that can be done should be. and that is all the reason i need to support this.
All the heavy lifting in terms of math for things like Fleet fights are done on the server (which has been 64-bit since 2008, per CCP Explorer) anyways. The whole "never trust the client" maxim is so very much in play here, and is one of the reasons the EVE client is not much of a resource hog.
Which algorithms does the EVE Client use that would run faster with 64bit registers? Arguing that "some algorithms benefit from 64-bit registers, thus EVE would benefit from 64-bit registers" is fallacious, as you have nothing to support the assertion that EVE's client uses any of those benefiting algorithms.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3552
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 16:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪand (also again) that's before we even begin to discuss the costs, such as potential loss of middleware components, loss of subscribers (or increased dev load from duplicating their efforts across two clients), increased memory footprints, etc. 64-bit may be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't matter if EVE happens to be on a yoghurt-only diet and would turn inside-out and explode if you fed it some fibre. Even Blizzard told players they'll stop supporting the oldest of old videocards and OSes. Progress is like that.
Sure it is, but progress for its on sake is a useless waste of energy. So what tangible benefits do you think that a 64-bit client would bring to offset those costs?
Please keep the following in mind when you respond:
CCP Explorer wrote:The server is 64-bit and the DB is 64-bit. What is needed to have 64-bit is 64-bit.
The client is 32-bit since we need to support Windows XP, there is overhead in having two clients, some of the middleware is only available as 32-bit and there is no reason to have the client as 64-bit.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3553
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Tippia wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:There's nothing to admit right or wrong, since I simply wrote a few sentences. GǪwhich suggested that running 3 clients was in any way relevant to the 32 vs 64bit client discussion. This suggestion is incorrect. Also, my first computer was a PDP-11. Now shush. Huh? Suggestion? You guys are reading into things that never was written. Perhaps it's better to pull back from the agendas and read things as is, and not make up things, instead. Ace Uoweme wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Also, a 64 bit client would do very little (if anything) for an EVE client, as it doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB limit of addressable space that a 32 bit program can use... which you'd know if you'd been paying attention to the thread. When you running 3 clients.......................
Ahem.
To paraphrase:
Ruby: The EVE Client doesn't use anywhere near the 4GB addressable by a 32bit client and so would not benefit from being remade into a 64bit program.
Ace: When running 3 clients something happens to make the above false, so I will roll my internet pixel eyes at you.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3555
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 04:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:
You're trying to frame the discussion to what YOU think it meant.
Ok, so what did you mean? Keep in mind that it is quite normal and accepted to assume that comments are actually on topic, so saying "I meant 'when running three clients the moon is made of cheese'" isn't going to cut it.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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