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The Next Wave of Unsubs

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Dradius Calvantia Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle 43	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:16:00 - [1] - Quote Despite the fact that I did not agree with the direction that CCP was taking with EVE, I never unsubed my account during NeXgate. In the end, this came down to the fact that I still had fun playing EVE. The game play that I had enjoyed for so long was still compelling, and I enjoyed spending my free time blowing up spaceships with my friends. I advocated strongly for my positions on MT and the state of FIS, but I never stopped playing the game. That may change next month. Up until this point, every objection I have had towards CCP has been on the basis of game mechanics, or where they put their development time. They were differences of opinion about somethings that in all honesty are not that terribly important. Now however, CCP has done something that I find moral reprehensible; something that has an impact on more than a hundred peoples lives. CCP has recently laid off 20% of its workforce; programmers, artists, community managers. Hilmar has labeled this mass lay-off as part of an attempt to "refocus" CCP's priorities. In other words, the people at CCP who have actually listened to our concerns, who have put in the work making EVE what it is, who have in many cases advocated on our behalf are the ones who are paying for the mistakes of CCP's upper management. This is sadly something that happens all the time, in every industry. When companies start to run into financial pressure, they do not look to upper management to cut payroll costs. Instead they immediately go to the bottom of the pay scale, to the people who are actually being productive. They cut positions where the most harm to the companies capabilities per dollar is done. It is corporate culture at its very worst. That does not mean that it is something I simply accept as the status quo. I do not support companies that treat employees like this. This means, that come next month when my subscription is up I will not be continuing my account. This is a terrible shame, as this comes at a time when I could not be happier with the direction the game seems to be heading. Some things are more important than internet space ships however. A large number of the people I fly with are also considering letting their subs lapse. A few people in Rote went inactive during the summer, but it was not because they were outraged at CCP. It was in most cases simply because they had gotten bored with the game. It was not something we had huge discussions about, occasionally someone would just mention that they were unsubbing to take a break for a while. Some of them have come back and are flying with us again, some of them are waiting until this winter. Either way, it was never something that significantly disrupted alliance operations. This time around, there are quite a few people in Rote who are livid over CCP's actions. People are actively trying to get others to unsub with them over this, and a 10 page thread about this poped up nearly instantly on our forums (which usually go weeks with out much more than a few CTA threads.) I can tell you, those of us who have friends at CCP, and those of us who have been affected by the same upper management mentality care about this.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 672	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:22:00 - [2] - Quote It sucks, but it's not really our business how CCP is run. We should really only be interested in how EVE is run. PS Since you're posting that from a PC, which will be largely made from parts produced in Chinese factories who literally work their staff to death, your concern with supporting corporate cultures seems to be unevenly applied, to say the least. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mallak Azaria Hole Plunderer's 13	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:23:00 - [3] - Quote I totally agree with you in regards to this. However, I feel that unsubscribing is not the best way to get the point accross, because it effectively cuts off exposure to said displeasure. The only way to effectively get the point accross is to voice it with reasonable objections. Unfortunately, it may be awhile before CCP starts to listen.
Red Templar Free Space Tech 0	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:25:00 - [4] - Quote Feeling bad about people who are fired, and un-subbing, so that more people would get fired, thats a nice way to solve this problem
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 103	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:27:00 - [5] - Quote A well-written wall of text predicting unsubs (In terms of grammar and punctuation). +1 Poorly thought out and very emotional wall of text. -5 Why did you feel the need to post this ? I am genuinely curious as to why you are saying you're leaving and feel you have to post about it. Would your post and responses to it somehow affect the future of Eve, or yourself ? I'm trying not to be flippant about anything, but come on dude, you could just have said "I am leaving because I am p1ssed with what CCP has done by firing 20% of their staff" I'm in danger now of creating a wall of text, so I'll cease now and wish you luck, whatever you may do. Cheers. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
T-Jay Charante The Scope Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:31:00 - [6] - Quote I'll gladly accept the transfer of your character, just holla' when you're ready.
Astenion Spiritus Draconis 19	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:32:00 - [7] - Quote Red Templar wrote: Feeling bad about people who are fired, and un-subbing, so that more people would get fired, thats a nice way to solve this problem Haha I was thinking the same thing! "I love your product but because you had to lay off a part of your workforce (something that every single company has been doing for the past 4 years), I'm going to stop using your product, thereby forcing you to lay off more people." Sigh...college students who've never had to live in the real world...
rodyas The Scope Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:33:00 - [8] - Quote Well alot of people did unsub because of monoclegate. Maybe Hilmar saw the new numbers, and though less people would need to work now. Like in a depression less people buying more lay offs. It was mostly for WoD thought the lay offs. Think of how they are pushing back establishments as well. Makes sense another game in their company could be pushed back or people laid off as well if that happened. With just juggling WiS and FiS demand will go up and down for both of those over time, and the company has to adjust to that as well. Suppose Blizzard is simple, go big and huge and always do well, for other companies can be harder.
shashe sin State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:36:00 - [9] - Quote posting in another useless thread 1 person =/= wave of unsubs
Botleten GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 133	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:37:00 - [10] - Quote tl; dr I'm angry that CCP operates like every other corporation in the world so I'm going to unsubscribe, even though its this very act undertaken by other people that led to these layoffs in the first place.
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction 613	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:37:00 - [11] - Quote I "liked" your post because I do support the principle you epouse (that there is room for honour and decency in business ). But I do also agree with Malcanis that we need to be looking at the way the game develops now. Where these two arguments collide is in the detail of who is getting fired though. For me I will be pretty furious if it turns out that the rank and file CCP'ers got culled at the cost of maintaining the people who advocated and attempted to foist MT/NeX on Eve Online and directly caused this trouble for everyone. I can understand the need for redundancies as a result for mismanagement and essential refinancing - its horrible but neccessary for the long term survival of the game. But I can't understand IF the VERY people who caused this problem somehow are the ones who survive it having many times failed to take responsibilty for their corrosive greedy money-grubbing nonsense that brought CCP so close to ruin. Let me be plain. For me to consider subscribing with real $ rather than plexing up from my in-game assets I need to see the NeX Concept and all its advocates figuritively swinging from the lampposts in Reykjavik and Hilmar should be plainly putting his hands up in admission that NeX has no place in Eve. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting!
non judgement Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance 96	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:43:00 - [12] - Quote When I see things like this, I think, well it's fairly obvious that they really didn't need much of a reason to leave. You know it'd okay to keep playing and still be angry about what CCP did and show how much you don't like it in other ways. Don't you think unsubbing is a bit much? It's almost like no matter what CCP tries to do to make money (NeXstore, fire people) you stop your account and give them less. No win situation much? They obviously needed the money for something. Not sure if you really cared about CCP to begin with. Must be other reasons for leaving but you thought you'd use this as an excuse and do a little song and dance before leaving. Altho it is a rather big straw they put on the camels back, is it really worth unsubbing over? I'm going to show them how much I don't like what they did by not having fun playing their game anymore. How dare I have fun playing their game when they fire people. I'm not going to give them my money if they don't even have the money to keep their workers on. Does this seem a bit strange to you? This is what's the odd thing about what you said. Especially since you said that you enjoy the game.
Pak Narhoo Knights of Kador 27	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:44:00 - [13] - Quote Now is the time to show that you care for this game by -not- unsubscribing. CCP made a few big mistakes last summer when it came to EVE and they completely overstretched themselves over the past years by working on 3 properties, of which they under supported their only money making property. It's too late to turn the clock back, all CCP can do now is going forward, hopefully with the lessons learned not stored in the short term memory banks but in the long term memory banks. Protesting now by unsubscribing will not bring those people back who sadly had to be laid off. It also will not serve any purpose in trying to communicate towards CCP that you do not agree with the direction they have taken. You are a bit late for that. All you can hope for is that things actually will get better, not worse. And having a second round of people will make things worse. Maybe so bad that once you decide to return all you find here is a 404 page.
Signal11th 144	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:53:00 - [14] - Quote Humm, It was my thought that due to all the moaning in the Summer about EVE developement and focusing on EVE this was bound to happen? So people are now complaining about this?? Humm be careful what you wish for you might just get it....etc I feel sorry for the people who have lost their jobs (happened to me a couple of years back) but s hit happens. What do you really think was going to happen when they announced the re-focusing??? God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.
Samillian Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos 11	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:55:00 - [15] - Quote I recommend you read this Jester's Trek Burn Rate if you have an interest in this issue, it never hurts to look at the other side of the issue. While the job losses are unfortunate and I have a great deal of sympathy for those on the sharp end of these cuts, (been in a similar situation and it's not a good place to be) it must be remembered that CCP is a business and is doing nothing different than any other business faced with a similar problem would do. Reducing CCP's revenue in protest at their cutting of jobs can be considered counter productive at best (I'm being polite there) and will only lead to further cuts being made if take up by a large number of subscribers.
Dradius Calvantia Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle 44	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:02:00 - [16] - Quote Red Templar wrote: Feeling bad about people who are fired, and un-subbing, so that more people would get fired, thats a nice way to solve this problem Is it optimal for the employees at CCP, no. However, companies get away with treating their employees this way in large part because they believe there are no consequences. In the long run, if consumers start to care about how a company treats those who work for it and quit supporting the ones which adopt these practices then the consequences become more obvious and more pronounced. Companies that treat employees with respect will have an advantage over those that do not, and eventually market pressures will ensure that things like this no longer occur. As a member of the productive class, I have a vested interest (besides just my moral opinion) in this. Astenion wrote: Sigh...college students who've never had to live in the real world... If you must know, I worked my way through college before spending three years as a flight instructor for the same program I graduated from. After three years of 60-80 hour weeks, my supervisor (who had been to the aviation campus twice if you include this time) announced that all our positions were being re-classed as part time, we were losing all our benefits, and were going to be paid minimum wage. I understand quite well how the world works thank you.
Heimdallofasgard APEX ARDENT COALITION NEM3SIS. 17	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:04:00 - [17] - Quote Signal11th wrote: Humm, It was my thought that due to all the moaning in the Summer about EVE developement and focusing on EVE this was bound to happen? So people are now complaining about this?? Humm be careful what you wish for you might just get it....etc I feel sorry for the people who have lost their jobs (happened to me a couple of years back) but s hit happens. What do you really think was going to happen when they announced the re-focusing??? Maybe everyone was hoping soundwave would get fired... Well community devs aren't reeeeally developers in the strictest sense of the word, they're in PR, not game development/programming and are a luxury for most games (no offence spitfire) ... having 6 of them does seem slightly excessive, especially with all those players unsubbing the other month meaning they'd have less of a player base to deal with.
Mallak Azaria Hole Plunderer's 14	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:07:00 - [18] - Quote rodyas wrote: Well alot of people did unsub because of monoclegate. Maybe Hilmar saw the new numbers, and though less people would need to work now. Like in a depression less people buying more lay offs. It was mostly for WoD though the lay offs. Think of how they are pushing back establishments as well. Makes sense another game in their company could be pushed back or people laid off as well if that happened. With just juggling WiS and FiS demand will go up and down for both of those over time, and the company has to adjust to that as well. Suppose Blizzard is simple, go big and huge and always do well, for other companies can be harder. It's not so much the WOD layoff's that bother me. While a better refocus move would've been to have them actually refocus on EVE, it's the staff that were actually working on EVE that got laid off that really bothers me. In short, it wasn't a refocus move. It was a poor cover for upper CCP management to keep their big pay checks. In my opinion, the reaction to this would've gone over 'slightly' better had they just been honest about the move. I say slightly, because it's still a **** move.
DarkAegix Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 113	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:12:00 - [19] - Quote People are threatening to leave because of EVE's new direction? Engine trails, implants of mails, more control through player owned customs offices, cap nerf, new ships, nebulae, etc, etc. Sigh Finally, deal with the fact CCP had to fire a bunch of people. In the end, it's the best. Either CCP goes broke and fires everyone, or cuts out 20% of its developers, who aren't even earning money for CCP yet, and everyone's better off as a whole. Yes, getting fired would suck, but if Iceland is as developed as I think it is, the workers will receive compensation from either the government or CCP.
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction 615	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:15:00 - [20] - Quote DarkAegix wrote: People are threatening to leave because of EVE's new direction? Engine trails, implants of mails, more control through player owned customs offices, cap nerf, new ships, nebulae, etc, etc. Sigh Finally, deal with the fact CCP had to fire a bunch of people. In the end, it's the best. Either CCP goes broke and fires everyone, or cuts out 20% of its developers, who aren't even earning money for CCP yet, and everyone's better off as a whole. Yes, getting fired would suck, but if Iceland is as developed as I think it is, the workers will receive compensation from either the government or CCP. 20% staff cuts is understandable. 20% staff cuts without laying off the NeX store idiots -> not so much. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting!
Dradius Calvantia Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle 44	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:21:00 - [21] - Quote DarkAegix wrote: People are threatening to leave because of EVE's new direction? Engine trails, implants of mails, more control through player owned customs offices, cap nerf, new ships, nebulae, etc, etc. Sigh Finally, deal with the fact CCP had to fire a bunch of people. In the end, it's the best. Either CCP goes broke and fires everyone, or cuts out 20% of its developers, who aren't even earning money for CCP yet, and everyone's better off as a whole. Yes, getting fired would suck, but if Iceland is as developed as I think it is, the workers will receive compensation from either the government or CCP. The choice is not "Cut 20% of our employees or go out of business." There are most likely dozens of other ways that CCP could reduce costs if they really needed to. Probably the best of which is a slight reduction in upper management pay scales. You are also confusing the issue of the CCP lay offs with the game play decisions that have been made recently. The two have nothing to do with each other. In addition, although some of the lay offs pertain to WOD development, a large number of the affected employees work directly (in some cases exclusively) on EVE. And nearly all of the lay offs are of US employees (Not that this is an important point, just correcting the error you made.)
Brooks Puuntai Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN. 200	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:23:00 - [22] - Quote A lot of the staff that I saw on the list, where actually people who WHERE on Eve but got relocated to WoD. Then got laid off. Which had to suck.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 185	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:45:00 - [23] - Quote Jade Constantine wrote: 20% staff cuts is understandable. 20% staff cuts without laying off the NeX store idiots -> not so much. The NeX folks are earning their keep. The staff cuts are due to the lack of income. They have to thin down the teams that aren't directly income-earning. Go read Ripard's blog. #painfultruthsofcapitalism
rodyas The Scope Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:52:00 - [24] - Quote Well alot of people were also making fun of WoD. In the stock market you can short a stock. I suppose relentlelsy making fun of a new game could be equal to shorting a stock and saying this company wont do well. Then the lay offs hit. We are all sad by the lay offs. But before this news we were just making fun of them really. Cant just blame the business world on the things that happen and such.
Zoe Alarhun The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation 35	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:55:00 - [25] - Quote SO you are going to unsub therefore making it more likely that more people get laid off in the future ? wut ? Myself I am happy with CCP's focus on space ships, tons of promised features and open communication. I will not be unsubbing.
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance 198	Posted - 2011.10.21 10:57:00 - [26] - Quote Clueless OP is clueless. CCP didn't just fired people, they cut the job positions. When you simply fire someone, you hire somebody else to fill the position. If you eliminate the position, you cut your costs. Two to three years ago CCP hired a lot of new people to work on the other projects (WoD and DUST). So if they are now deciding to refocus on EVE it is only natural that a lot of those people will be future endeavored. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand.
sYnc Vir Wolfsbrigade 7	Posted - 2011.10.21 11:02:00 - [27] - Quote For those about to emo out of the game due to any small thing they are overreacting to. sYnc Vir in game will happily take all your isk and ships off your hands. I promise to misuse them all in a vain and possible stupid attempt to kill people in FW. Should you later calm down and return every isk and ship you sent will not be returned, and I will most likely not remember who the hell you are.
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 253	Posted - 2011.10.21 11:03:00 - [28] - Quote ITT: An idiot OP who somehow got his 'license to use a computer' in a breakfast cereal box [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img]
Froz3nEcho Sarain Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 107	Posted - 2011.10.21 11:35:00 - [29] - Quote You know CCP will help these guys finding a new job right? Sure you have to take this with some salt but stil.... ~ When everything fades away, an echo is the only sound that will remain ~ -á-á~ Chaos is a name for any order that produces confusion in our minds ~
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 170	Posted - 2011.10.21 11:41:00 - [30] - Quote I just resubbed if only for a month (not a yearly sub for now). My faith in CCP is rising, albeit slowly. CCP dropbears live events not being axed and killmails for pods indlucing implants (and in the future boosters/SP loss I hope) made me believe they believe and I believe faith needs to be supported. Combine that with the fact they just introduced more stuff for players to build/control/destroy and the new ships they are clearly building I can see myself flying in the eve universe once again. The question is, with whom? - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

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