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A question for Oveur and the guys at CCP

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:18:00 - [31] Originally by: HUGO DRAX There are so many avenues for PVP, Piracy etc.. that do not require risking sec status loss (ie 0.0 piracy, Wardeclarations etc..) I dont think CCP needs to fix anything. Grinding for a month is no big deal, you had lots of fun in the process so I would just do it and move on. HE WANTS TO JOIN AN EMPIRE CORP. HE DOESN'T WANT TO PIRATE ANYMORE. jesus ***** christ try reading the original post Originally by:** Chowdown We camp a lot
Verone	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:26:00 - [32] Originally by: Gonada Edited by: Gonada on 30/10/2005 13:18:03 /edit spelling so basically your saying this: yes i was a pirate, yes i bummed alot of people, yes i know the consequence i face. then you say but please make it easier / faster for me to fix ! you made your bed, now lie in it , pirate! There's no need to troll. I'm not asking for an easy ride, maybe if you'd taken the chance to read my post and UNDERSTAND it before pressing the reply button, you'd have the right idea of what i'm saying.
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:27:00 - [33] Originally by: queen'beee Absolutely not! Why should you be able to grief as much as you want then suddenly be able to turn pos sec again after you've had all your fun? All the implants, clones, items, ships and ore you've cost other players is not worth you at least sitting in a belt killing rats to atone for!? The little justice that there is in eve says if you do the crime you do the time, so your reason for going anti pirate isn't really important, its the fact you contributed to so much grief (possible cancelling of a few accounts) which at least means you SHOULD spend all day and every day killing rats to fix your status. I'm sorry but there should be no easy way to raise neg sec else they'd be too many griefers and no one would ever venture below 0.5 (which ccp is trying to reverse). You did the crime now do the time - and while you are killing your 8345th gurista arrogator, just remember all the years of fun you had ganking innocent noobs and carebears, causing them horrible grief and laughing at them in local when they asked to leave the system or pick up thier stuff. Imo low sec greifers are the lowest of the low. I respect pvp'ers that go into 0.0 and look for fights against other capable combatants. But people sitting 170km off a gate in 0.4 insta popping noobs are not pvp'ers they are just cowards that like to grief. No respect, no support - do the time. I think some got popped.... now to the discusion. i like the idea whit rehab of some sort but it should cost u and it should be something u could do only once every 3 month or so, and it should not give u the full sec status back but maybe lets say 2.5 sec status.. and its should not be cheap. Originally by: Eris Discordia As a minmatar I have to say the only good Amarr is a dead Amarr
Siren Shiva	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Eris Discordia Will be very easy to exploit, those pirate corporations would simply ask people to pay isk for killing some random alt that belongs to the corp. You could effectively buy back your security status in this way. Good point, I wrote that up in half a minute without thinking Originally by: Wild Rho The ships that you've destroyed over time has cost the "victims" not only isk but time to replace their lost ships and items. The time taken to fix your sec from -10 is a fair repayment of that as far as im concerned. BTW doing 0.5 complexes solo is perfectly possible and can have a wrecked sec status fixed in a couple of weeks with the bonus that you get filthy rich in the process. We've had that in another thread. Victims lose only ISK, which can be regained in 15 different ways. If they dont like one of those ways, they can do something they enjoy instead. But someone who hates NPC ratting and complexes is absolutely SCREWED if they want to go back to high sec for roleplay or other reasons. Its a game, why should they be forced to do something they hate? Why not do the time, say 2 months, doing something that doesnt make them want to scream and quit? Inappropriate signature graphic removed -Zhuge
Galk	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:37:00 - [35] Originally by: Antoinette Civari Damn this is funny, all these clueless carebears who haven't read the post properly. The main problem is that pirates (pvp'ers) need to kill a lot npc's (carebear stuff) in order to restore their security status. The first thing that came into my mind was "Ha, that's easy Take issue on calling low sec pirates as pvp'ers tbh, everytime iv'e wasted my time trying to get some pvp with these guys (in general) they allways decline.... they only seem intrested when i decide to come through in a hauler, or mission setup ship.. (not that i allways lose in that situation.. as the last guy found out to his cost:)) While i might be a clueless carebear in your opinion, at no point did i say anything was easy, i reconise the grind, and also reconise that it is the same for each and every player.. in whatever they do..... Just because... you don't like doing it...... thats no reason for change... h ----------- When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:40:00 - [36] Originally by: Siren Shiva But someone who hates NPC ratting and complexes is absolutely SCREWED if they want to go back to high sec for roleplay or other reasons. Its a game, why should they be forced to do something they hate? Why not do the time, say 2 months, doing something that doesnt make them want to scream and quit? Well thats tough luck basically. Eve isnt about you having everything the way you want it. You kill in empire (oh and you cost them TIME as well as isk as they may need to spend up to several hours reaquiring the ship and parts they lost) knowing that there are only so many ways to fix your sec then you have to deal with that fact when you want to recover and play nic. You play the game you want to and then you pay the price for it at some point. Don't want to be stuck killing npcs to go legal again? It's called consequences.
Verone	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:43:00 - [37] Edited by: Verone on 30/10/2005 13:45:28 Can one of the Mods please lock this thread. Yet again it's turning into a Carebear vs Pirate war, and that was not my intention. I can see I'm wasting my time by posting here because of the prejudice that most of the Anti-PvP community seem to have against people like me. To those who posted positively, thanks. If any of the developers would like to talk more about this, I'll be available any time I'm online.
Siren Shiva	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Wild Rho You play the game you want to and then you pay the price for it at some point. Don't want to be stuck killing npcs to go legal again? It's called consequences. This has been beaten to death, but... ...its called a game Maintain balance, yes. Prevent abuse, yes. Turning a game into work, NO. There are possibilities for consequences that would maintain the balance, prevent abuse, and actually be fun. Inappropriate signature graphic removed -Zhuge
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:54:00 - [39] Most notable thing that came out of this thread imho is this observation by yours truly: EVE has been caught by a 'Im forced to grind, so should you' attitude, instead of 'Grinding is bad'. Can't say i've had any sec status problems myself, but then again, when i actively started PvPing i had a 5.1 sec status. Down to 3.3 now, and that took me about a year. Ofcourse, i generally avoid podding in lowsec, which helps alot. The only true problem i see with the current system is anyone who flys Frigates as a pirate is left with no option. Grinding high-end NPCs in a BS is boring, but atleast its efficient. Doing it in Interceptors or Assault Frigs is possible but nowhere near as efficient.
Galk	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Verone Edited by: Verone on 30/10/2005 13:45:28 Can one of the Mods please lock this thread. Yet again it's turning into a Carebear vs Pirate war, and that was not my intention. I can see I'm wasting my time by posting here because of the prejudice that most of the Anti-PvP community seem to have against people like me. To those who posted positively, thanks. If any of the developers would like to talk more about this, I'll be available any time I'm online. Verone please review the thread, the only insults in the thread originaly came from the pvp community.. against the 'carebears' as it were.. Starting posts by calling people clueless does not help, im sure there's been many people (like myself) biting there tongue while posting constuctively. Yes it would be easy for me to flame.... TBH i don't think your realy that stupid not to know how this thread would go... It's quite obvious that there are posts in this thread from wrangler ect... that know this, and the term 'placid comments' spring to mind. As to be expected realy, though failing to reconise all sides of whats gone on in this thread thus far... and the game in general (the points you make) is probaly your greatest failing... ----------- When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.30 13:59:00 - [41] Parole sounds interesting, but um... if any ship kill counts a strike, that sort of rules out doing alliance 0.0 combat while in rehab, no? Should it just count ship kills which cause a sec hit? But then, camping a 0.0 gate and being in "rehab" would be possible... Sounds like a good idea to me, implementation might be a little harder than it initially appears though. Or maybe i havent had enough coffee yet this morning? Also, props to verone for taking a decision that requires this much long-term commitment. :) -------------

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.10.30 14:03:00 - [42] Please read the thread, Verone is not looking for a system that will make it easier for pirates, he is only asking if you could ever gain security status without grinding for a long time. If you cannot offer any ideas on this then please do not reply, we are not looking for replies in the lines of 'face the consequences' we ant suggestions for a different system. I heart all, some more then others though.

Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.10.30 14:23:00 - [43] Originally by: keepiru Parole sounds interesting, but um... if any ship kill counts a strike, that sort of rules out doing alliance 0.0 combat while in rehab, no? Should it just count ship kills which cause a sec hit? But then, camping a 0.0 gate and being in "rehab" would be possible... Shooting/killing people in 0.0 isn't considered a crime by concord, as 0.0 is lawless space. As this would be a concord run program, the same rules should apply - I should've made it more clear. And yes, you should be able to camp a 0.0 gate in rehab. If you can't shoot anyone (legally or not), then all there is left to do is grind NPCs, which is what we're trying to avoid in the first place. Originally by: Chowdown We camp a lot
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.10.30 14:27:00 - [44] Originally by: Elve Sorrow EVE has been caught by a 'Im forced to grind, so should you' attitude, instead of 'Grinding is bad'. Quoted for the truth. I wish more people would think outside the box and come up with interesting game mechanics/roleplay ideas (the parole idea technically covers both) instead of saying "just go grind NPCs for a month". I haven't ground an NPC for a very long time (other than some gate ones whilst in a boring gate camp). Shooting NPCs should always be optional - any mechanic that requires you to do this for 30 days straight is a broken one. Originally by: Chowdown We camp a lot
Zaldiri	Posted - 2005.10.30 14:47:00 - [45] Acctualy Verones question is a good one, problam is the Devs have to balance 2 things: 1) Piracy has to have it consequences, you can't have a system where the pirate can reset their status to 0 over and over again, becuase such a system will be abused. 2) EVE has a multitude of professions, currently you can move between them pretty easily, piracy however is an exception becuase taking up piracy effectivly blocks all empire based professions, this is unfair on pirates who geniually want to change there gameplay. ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.10.30 14:52:00 - [46] I cba to read this thread but I will say this: I have now been belt ratting in 0.0 for about 15 days, I've gone up from -10.00 to -6.9, if I want to go up 0.5 in one day I have to NPC for 6 hours. All I can say is, do the crime do the time is fine, but if I were a man off less patience I would have cancelled my account 12 days ago. A penalty for being a pirate is all well and good, but I don't want it to turn into a second job. Originally by: Berneh You will never take me aliv coppers
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Ikvar I cba to read this thread but I will say this: I have now been belt ratting in 0.0 for about 15 days, I've gone up from -10.00 to -6.9, if I want to go up 0.5 in one day I have to NPC for 6 hours. All I can say is, do the crime do the time is fine, but if I were a man off less patience I would have cancelled my account 12 days ago. A penalty for being a pirate is all well and good, but I don't want it to turn into a second job. Ouch. Generally any system implemented must have the following characteristics: 1) It is not easy to transition from piracy to non-piracy, to discourage people who jump back and forth. 2) It takes far longer to get sec status up than to get it down, so pirates can't just kill someone and spend 10 minutes to get their sec status back up. I would personally support having every rat killed affect sec status. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:14:00 - [48] I don't want an 'easy' way out of having low sec, I just want something bette than coming home from work at 6PM and then grinding boring ass NPCs until 12AM or earlier just to get a tiny sec increase. Originally by: Berneh You will never take me aliv coppers
Ashis	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:18:00 - [49] Edited by: Ashis on 30/10/2005 15:19:44 Someone mentioned it in jest earlier - but I think it is worth bringing up. To invalidate a -10 standing should require you to make restitution (NPCing for a month) OR invalidating the losses you have caused. So how about paying a lump sum "settlement" to a Concord agent that is distributed back to those those players that show as victims in your kill mails to reimburse them for anything destroyed (and the cost of the insurance of the ships). Harsh? Arguably. The result is that there are no consequences for your actions, so there should be no benefit from taking those actions originally. The alternative is you grind for a month - and keep all the spoils of your piracy - yarr. But this system addresses those that may not fully intend or appreciate the difficulties of the life of -v ss. What isn't accounted for are the dropped items and destroyed implants, so maybe this "settlement" number should be multiplied be some factor in order to be more inclusive of the actual losses incurred. I'm not as much for this idea because my goal is to take the reward from the pirate, not invalidate the losses of the player. The problem is that griefers may take advantage of that, so maybe the multiplier is needed. I have no idea of what this would take from a programmatic end. It does seem that CCP has tons of information recorded that we don't know about, so maybe this stuff is already in their database somewhere. __________
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:26:00 - [50] Heheh, no way I'd pay back people I've killed in lowsec. 99% of them were idiots and deserved to die. Originally by: Berneh You will never take me aliv coppers
Ashis	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Ikvar Heheh, no way I'd pay back people I've killed in lowsec. 99% of them were idiots and deserved to die. That's fair - then grind it :) You brought up the points in your initial post about people that weren't fully aware of what they were doing - so the "settlement" option gives room for that. The pirate ends up with no benefit from crime (crime doesn't pay!) and has a clean slate. BUT if your concern is that you maintain the spoils of your life of crime then there should be no quick way out. The pirate has to "do some time" in order to be re-integrated into society. I have no doubt that many of your victims deserved to die - but this isn't about them. This is about your rehabilitation :) __________
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:37:00 - [52] Edited by: Ikvar on 30/10/2005 15:37:38 Like I said, I'm not looking for an easy way out, however like I said I think that having to NPC in belts for 6+ hours a day for 20+ days (120+ hours) is a bit excessive. And plus, for me the appeal of eve has always been the lack of grind. Originally by: Berneh You will never take me aliv coppers
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:38:00 - [53] Furthermore, about maybe... 0.1% of my total wealth was gleaned from pirating. Originally by: Berneh You will never take me aliv coppers
Apertotes	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:43:00 - [54] i would put a new skill, something like raising rahabilitation skill, rank 1, unlimited. each level grants you a +1 on your security level. so, if you want to come back from -10 to 0, you should raise 10 levels of the skill. what? that would be 7 years? ups, i am sorry for you. then you can raise only 5 levels and grind the rest. or maybe put an advance rehabilitaion skill, rank 3, and you need level 5 on the other skill anyway, i dont think there should be anything that let you raise your standing any more easily.
Ashis	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:43:00 - [55] Edited by: Ashis on 30/10/2005 15:45:38 2005.10.22 19:04:00 RefID:613847665 This is an automated message. CONCORD is pleased to confirm that Verone has been rehablitated from his life of crime and has agreed to pay resititution to his victims. As a beneficiary of CONCORD's Class Action Law suit we have deposited 153,462,283ISK into your personal account for losses incurred. This payment represents your claim to the total 1,293,397,958.87ISK paid in settlement. __________
Ashis	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:45:00 - [56] Originally by: Ikvar Furthermore, about maybe... 0.1% of my total wealth was gleaned from pirating. Using this system then you would only need to part with 0.1% of your wealth. __________
Chinsor	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:46:00 - [57] I don't think gaining sec status should be made easier, but i think there should be other ways to gain it, instead of just grinding 0.0 spawns. rehabilitation agents may be a good idea, but they shouldn't make the process any easier.
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.10.30 15:49:00 - [58] Originally by: Chinsor I don't think gaining sec status should be made easier, but i think there should be other ways to gain it, instead of just grinding 0.0 spawns. rehabilitation agents may be a good idea, but they shouldn't make the process any easier. Exactly my point, I'd happily run missions or do something else just for a bit of variety and a bit more fun. Originally by: Berneh You will never take me aliv coppers
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.10.30 16:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 30/10/2005 13:12:58 Parool or however its spelled, you contact a CONCORD agent, he fixes your sec stat and you get to spend the next 6 months on parool. Any act of piracy will result in a CONCORD sponsored podkill and a -10 sec status as well as a 50% decrease in sec status gained from NPC's for the next 6 months. (Shooting people in 0.0 of course doesnt count as piracy.) Parool should only be available once every 6 months for -5 people and lower. And yes, concord would follow you into low sec and 0.0 space to pod kill you . a tad harsh: doesnt leave any place for mistakes (accidental podding of somebody in low sec maybe .. via smartbmb etc?) but a good idea in general :D Killing the rich and giving to me
Taketa De	Posted - 2005.10.30 16:11:00 - [60] I also agree that there should be more variety in the possibilites of regaining sec status. It should take as long as it does now, but it should also at least be moderatly fun and not just an endless repeat of the same thing. One idea of rehabilitation is to have concord agents give out missions to players who want to change. These will raise ones sec status maybe 10% faster then just ratting but bring in some variety. Hunting player pirates would be a fun way too, unfortunatly pretty open to abuse. Even if one limits the sec status gain by the ISK value of the stuff pirates loose one could still buy ones freedom with the help of a pirate buddy. I must admit, it's pretty hard to think of systems that are fair, not open to abuse and don't leave the former victims like they have been cheated out of the consequence the pirate has.

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