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Exploration now officially sucks.

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Aidan Brooder Dynasphere Ltd. 237	Posted - 2013.06.04 00:20:00 - [121] - Quote Next expansion EVE "Aeneis" ... Click button to automatically fit ship with ideal fitting for your skills. Also: Ponies!
Pipernelli Spacemitt Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2013.06.04 00:25:00 - [122] - Quote Aidan Brooder wrote: Next expansion EVE "Aeneis" ... Click button to automatically fit ship with ideal fitting for your skills. Also: Ponies! Good tears rite thur.
iskflakes 490	Posted - 2013.06.04 00:28:00 - [123] - Quote Aidan Brooder wrote: Next expansion EVE "Aeneis" ... Click button to automatically fit ship with ideal fitting for your skills. Also: Ponies! CCP: "Think of all the new players we could attract if we just removed fittings altogether.. Yes, that must be why WOW is more popular. Players should play against each other, not against the fitting system, right? right?" -
Aidan Brooder Dynasphere Ltd. 237	Posted - 2013.06.04 00:32:00 - [124] - Quote Pipernelli Spacemitt wrote: Aidan Brooder wrote: Next expansion EVE "Aeneis" ... Click button to automatically fit ship with ideal fitting for your skills. Also: Ponies! Good tears rite thur. Also, the new multi-race T4 Battlehship without skill requirements: The "Panda"... I'm not whining. I just wonder how much time will pass till the whole glorified noob-train becomes too obvious? Lets be honest: New players will still not stick around, unless they are "EVE material"? Because it still costs time to progress. Not just farming and grinding XP. But if the solution is: Take away the "worthwhile" in progress then it doesn't make much sense, right? Why play at all? Make the game a big PVP arena, everyone starts with the same skills and it stops there.
Pipernelli Spacemitt Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2013.06.04 00:32:00 - [125] - Quote iskflakes wrote: Aidan Brooder wrote: Next expansion EVE "Aeneis" ... Click button to automatically fit ship with ideal fitting for your skills. Also: Ponies! CCP: "Think of all the new players we could attract if we just removed fittings altogether.. Yes, that must be why WOW is more popular. Players should play against each other, not against the fitting system, right? right?" CCP!~ My ezmode empire exploration is now compete with newbz, please handicap them so I can cuntinue to farm with my tengu. :bawl:
Aidan Brooder Dynasphere Ltd. 237	Posted - 2013.06.04 00:40:00 - [126] - Quote Quote: CCP took a braindead-easy thing you had to take a few weeks to skill into and made it something newbros can start on in a few days. TL;DR: Go find something more fitting of your sp level to do. Your income as a risk-averse empire bear is about to plummet and we're all laughing at you as you complain about that. Please, someone hand me a tissue... You hit me where it really hurts... My probing skills. ;) I don't care about the exploration that much... I just think that making too many things too accessible to new players will take away from their experience. Throw a virtual stone and you'll hit the next MMO that did that mistake. But just my opinion and I'll leave you yours.
Doc Severide State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.06.04 01:43:00 - [127] - Quote I do my own exploration. I get in a ship pick a point 60 or 70 jumps away and fly there. If I make it, I "explore" and look around. If I don't make it, I try again. I quite enjoy myself, see a lot of things, and sometimes people to chat with.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 3579	Posted - 2013.06.04 01:50:00 - [128] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Apples and oranges, and wholly nonsensical. The exploration system exists for there to be content to find, so it would be silly if it were all instantly warpable. That is not the same thing as doing away with grav sites, however, and it's probably noteworthy that of the four sigs, gravs are the only ones whose content was 100% accessible outside of the context of the exploration system. Well, that is one way of looking at it. Hang on a sec while I go find the Hedbergite 100% accessible in hisec. Oh. That's not what you meant? My way of looking at it is that exploration was also a way of providing different levels of content. At anomaly level you have the sites with lots of ships to shoot, just like missions or belt rats. At low-end exploration level you have slightly harder ships to shoot (content that is still 100% accessible outside sites), and at high-end you have much harder ships to shoot: all of this is just shooting red crosses content, all of this available outside sites. So too with grav sites: each level of difficulty provided further rewards beyond the norm for current region/constellation. Part of the lore of EVE is that hisec belts have been picked clean. Thus I would expect all hisec belts to be grav sites, which NPCs have ignored for various reasons: mostly the difficulty of probing them down, which is an advantage that capsuleers have over mundanes due to implants and hardwirings. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Haulie Berry 861	Posted - 2013.06.04 02:25:00 - [129] - Quote Yes, we get it, you really want there to still be grav sites, and you're willing to contrive any number of excuses for why they should continue to exist. On the whole, as someone who spends a lot of time with a probe launcher fit, and zero time with a (gag) mining laser fit, I'm happy to see them gone. At a minimum, please quit lying about this being some sort of egregious nerf to exploration when, at worst, it's a nerf to mining.
Pipernelli Spacemitt Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2013.06.04 02:41:00 - [130] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Yes, we get it, you really want there to still be grav sites, and you're willing to contrive any number of excuses for why they should continue to exist. On the whole, as someone who spends a lot of time with a probe launcher fit, and zero time with a (gag) mining laser fit, I'm happy to see them gone. At a minimum, please quit lying about this being some sort of egregious nerf to exploration when, at worst, it's a nerf to mining. I'm literally salivating over the potential tears of a mining minigame right now. CCP, You know what to do.

Dragnkat Winfield Star-Tech Un.Bound 25	Posted - 2013.06.04 03:51:00 - [131] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Yes, we get it, you really want there to still be grav sites, and you're willing to contrive any number of excuses for why they should continue to exist. On the whole, as someone who spends a lot of time with a probe launcher fit, and zero time with a (gag) mining laser fit, I'm happy to see them gone. At a minimum, please quit lying about this being some sort of egregious nerf to exploration when, at worst, it's a nerf to mining. And if the goal is to get people out of high sec into low / null /WH. And to incite people to do more mining outside safe space wouldn't you say nerfing miners by buffing pvp fleets, who are now finding every so called "hidden" belt with a simple scan click a totally bass ackwards way of trying to accomplish that goal? While we're on that topic when was the last time you've honestly seen low sec mining done at ANY belt? Go on, I'll wait. Could the answer have something to do with the fact miners don't always have PVP friends they can bring along willing to babysit, the risk doesn't match the rewards for staying in high, and there's that little detail about being able to be jumped on with a simple warp to 0 click on that belt in the dropdown menu? so hey I know lets make non safespace mining that much harder for those of us who play at odd times and can't suddenly have an entire fleet of scouts combat escorts and miners formed at the drop of a hat, what could go wrong with this plan? Hey I know, lets scan down a WH and try to ninja some ABC ores, after all if the pvp fleet doesn't have a scanner of their own, or of the wormhole owners don't have their bookmarks updated we should be fine right? Oh wait... never mind. And as a dedicated explorer/miner. Someone who has spent the last week and change shifting my training queue for the express purpose of being able to find grav sites faster for my corp mates, and what I -thought- was going to be the hidden ice belts I'm more then a little PO'ed as it feels like CCP just yanked the rug right out from under my profession of choice in favor of dumbing down scanning. And dumbing it down to the point where a trained monkey can do it, and now every suicide ganker in high sec has a big giant 100% ore site bullseye to say come here. Every major corp full of hulk pilots or alt armies will now with zero effort drain the high sec gravs dry before those of us who used to beat them to the punch can scan them first. Along with denying those of us who liked the skill barrier scanning provided of finding that grav and having a slighter safer chance to go after low sec or WH belts without some jerk in a tengu or {insert cloaky here] Dropping right on our heads without the warning of scan probes on D-scan. YES it's nerf to mining, and YES I'm angry about it for that regard. but I'm also angry because it kills my primary incentive for training exploration, it kills the incentive to risk ships in low sec for mining because now I may as well use normal belts outside the range of D-scans from celestial objects,. the "hidden" ones where the higher end ores would be will probably become the prime target for pvp fleets if they see miners on scan. and again, why would anyone risk low sec belt mining without the aforementioned and hard to gather fleet when risk of 8-30 million ISK barge (before we even talk macks or hulks) + possible pod to fleet of under a million per cheap frig blobs just is not worth it? And on top of that they claim this is an exploration buff as they remove one entire group of sites from exploration? It's an idiotic change all around on the scale of "Do you even play your own game CCP?" Of course the dev response? "We want players to be the challenge." Cause yes, there's such a challenge to making it even easier to gank the miners, and I'm sure those drones the scary barges could have out present a real "challenge" to a proper pvp fleet too....
Haulie Berry 864	Posted - 2013.06.04 04:20:00 - [132] - Quote Dragnkat wrote: Haulie Berry wrote: Yes, we get it, you really want there to still be grav sites, and you're willing to contrive any number of excuses for why they should continue to exist. On the whole, as someone who spends a lot of time with a probe launcher fit, and zero time with a (gag) mining laser fit, I'm happy to see them gone. At a minimum, please quit lying about this being some sort of egregious nerf to exploration when, at worst, it's a nerf to mining. And if the goal is to get people out of high sec into low / null /WH. And to incite people to do more mining outside safe space wouldn't you say nerfing miners by buffing pvp fleets, who are now finding every so called "hidden" belt with a simple scan click a totally bass ackwards way of trying to accomplish that goal? Here comes the cluetrain, last stop is you: That's not the goal of every last change they make and, in general, a lot of people frequently mistake any adjustment of the risk/reward ratio of the various spaces as being an effort to "push" people into lower sec space. TL;DR version, nobody gives a **** where you lazor spacerocks, and since the rest of your post was contingent on this incorrect assumption, we can safely ignore the rest of what you had to say.
Pipernelli Spacemitt Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2013.06.04 04:21:00 - [133] - Quote Dragnkat wrote: And as a dedicated explorer/miner. 0/10
Forum Puppet University of Caille Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2013.06.04 05:55:00 - [134] - Quote Dragnkat wrote: And if the goal is to get people out of high sec into low / null /WH. Why ? people stay in hisec because they dont want to do pvp. There is no such thing as staying in null and out of pvp. Why force them do something they dont want ?
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 42	Posted - 2013.06.04 07:32:00 - [135] - Quote Pipernelli Spacemitt wrote: Sounds like you're fond of WoW analogies. Perhaps you should go back to a universe where risk-averse things for newbies comprise the elite activity you assumed empire exploration to be? not interested in epeen sparring with an forum alt likely never left a station ;)
Borlag Crendraven Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 340	Posted - 2013.06.04 08:15:00 - [136] - Quote Pipernelli Spacemitt wrote: CCP took a braindead-easy thing you had to take a few weeks to skill into and made it something newbros can start on in a few days. TL;DR: Go find something more fitting of your sp level to do. Your income as a risk-averse empire bear is about to plummet and we're all laughing at you as you complain about that. Scanning before this change was already easy, what this change will accomplish is that those newbies will be even more at a disadvantage due to combat scanning becoming easier than ever, thus only making the leap into low, null and wormhole space even harder. That said, I welcome the change that the high sp players in their pimped up tengus aren't guaranteed to reap all the rewards in exploration anymore. Couldn't really care less about the difficulty of scanning static things like signatures otherwise.
Haulin Gneiss sweet riders 97	Posted - 2013.06.04 19:29:00 - [137] - Quote codebreaker II: A Hacking system used to override electronic security systems. Edit: A hacking system that gives you access to a minigame that yields a bunch of clicks with no skill involved. Result: punishment can spew. Right Click: Ignore Data Site / Create new scan filter and just do combat for now. Insert Pipernelli Spacemitt comment involving tears.
Haulie Berry 885	Posted - 2013.06.04 19:31:00 - [138] - Quote Haulin Gneiss wrote: codebreaker II: A Hacking system used to override electronic security systems. Edit: A hacking system that gives you access to a minigame that yields a bunch of clicks with no skill involved. Result: punishment can spew. Right Click: Ignore Data Site / Create new scan filter and just do combat for now. Insert Pipernelli Spacemitt comment involving tears. We get it , you don't like it. You'll just have to find a way to carry on, apparently.
Qwyp Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.04 19:37:00 - [139] - Quote it was too over complicated. I'd do it occasionally before but it was just a pain in arse but now they've actually made the exploration profession fun. I've been at it now for few hours, made over 80 million so far in highsec alone just goofing around... no more solo ice mining anymore since solo ice mining is impossible now most spots disappear under an hour like Otela's did this morning by swarm of botters. I was able to get about 4 chunks of ice :P but now swapping to exploring i've made just over 80 million from those augment discs in under an hour. Exploring now makes money on par with level 4 mission grinding or old ice mining so I found my new profession :) plus since you are always on the move no worry about suicide ganks with my buzzard
Murk Paradox Red Tsunami The Cursed Few 386	Posted - 2013.06.04 19:45:00 - [140] - Quote dexington wrote: Haulin Gneiss wrote: So, where's the EXPLORATION part? Shelved next to the "cold, dark and harsh universe", there are no room for challenging content in mmo's today. I really like World of Spaceships, we already got the paladin, i just hope to see some space dragons next expansion. Have you SEEN the Moa? "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details.

WANTED BY CONCORD CONCORD's Most Wanted 20	Posted - 2013.06.04 20:01:00 - [141] - Quote Exploration now official sucks. Repeat after me! Exploration now official sucks! Exploration now official sucks! Exploration now official sucks!
Murk Paradox Red Tsunami The Cursed Few 387	Posted - 2013.06.04 20:01:00 - [142] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Zak Breen wrote: People complained that exploration was too complicated. Now they are complaining it is too dumbed down. Why can't you just be happy? Moving gravimetric signatures to "ore site" anomalies has removed some significant exploration content. It's as simple as that. So with one hand CCP gives us the cool system scanner overlay & improved probing mechanics & give away probing advantages like candy (everyone can use 8 probes, and train the 1 skill to get all the advantages), but with the other hand they take away stuff to discover. Can you see a reason for highly trained explorers to complain? Imagine if all your fittings skills were merged into "Core Fitting" which gave +5% per level to PG, CPU, shield capacity, armour strength and passive resistances? What if "Weapon Usage" replaced WU, AWU, Rapid Firing, Controlled Bursts, Gunnery, Motion Prediction and Sharpshooter skills? Wouldn't you complain about the complexity of the game being removed? Uhm not really. I've been using those skills long before any patch would change it and have long since forgotten the time spent training the. "Highly trained explorers" will have a new mini game to learn. A new "element" to discover and enjoy. Plus, you get to relearn the whole new system. But yea, I guess nostalgia has it's place. I very much wish I had an old 8 track player instead of all the cd's I have burned to cd-r's in my car. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details.
Kult Altol Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet 365	Posted - 2013.06.04 20:22:00 - [143] - Quote I like it, it's not as tedious and the minigame is fun. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind.
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 225	Posted - 2013.06.04 20:25:00 - [144] - Quote Highly trained explorers still have an advantage. The scanner does not immediately show anything, unless you were looking for ore sites only before, in which case, yes you are screwed. As an explorer with all skills but hacking to V, the "difficulty" when you have something to 80%, then reduce scan range and move probes to centre over it.....only to have it disappear, is still there If you think that you no longer have an advantage over those who are new to exploring, make a new exploring alt and find out how fast you can lock down and grab that stuff compared to your explorer with all to V. Then get someone who is new to it, and race them to lock down sites. If they beat you, then yes, you no longer have an advantage
Zel0s Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:08:00 - [145] - Quote I was a explorer all my eve time long and befor it was challeging and hard to fly around and find those rare loots. It was always exciting when a can opened and you didnt know what was in it. That all changed now, now it is dumb as hell and you see this on the market prices .. now every dumbie can do it and does it. Further more now you see what is in the container and then you loose it because didnt get the correct container that always feels like you got trolled by ccp.... I realy realy hope they change something on this front realy soon if not i dont thing any explorer can affort to be a explorer anymore. And i am extreamly unsure if i want to do something else then exploring mybe i have quite eve lets see what the next patches do
Barron Hammerstrike RISK Inc. 10	Posted - 2013.06.20 21:23:00 - [146] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: +1 EVE used to be all about challenges and effort investment. Not so much anymore. It's certainly looking that way. I came on board during Dominion and I loved it. I loved the fact that progression took time, effort, and patience. I liked that some things were obvious and some things not so much. Exploration had a bit of mystery to it which made it cool and those that were interested pursued it. This expansion has been a big let down overall. Way tooo easy probe by numbers mechanic, interesting but ultimately unsatisfying mini games, and horrible loot spew gameplay. It's just my opinion, but exploration as well as system jumping are just a mess now. This expansion definitely gets two thumbs down and I had such high hopes for what would come after Retribution launched which was an awesome expansion. CCP was actually fixing things that were broke. Exploration wasn't broken it was just challenging. Jumping wasn't broken it just wasn't glamorous. Now it just feels like a healthy sized portion of fun has been removed from the game. I play solo because I don't want to wear a headset.
Kuronaga Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 153	Posted - 2013.06.20 21:24:00 - [147] - Quote Winterblink wrote: This is a first step. With the next step coming in 2025.
Barron Hammerstrike RISK Inc. 10	Posted - 2013.06.20 21:29:00 - [148] - Quote Kult Altol wrote: I like it, it's not as tedious and the minigame is fun. And really just out of curiosity-- how do you feel about the "GET READY TO GRAB THE LOOT!!" phase ? As soon as I kill the system core and the minilame screen closes-- in my head I'm like "oh great now this part". It is not fun. If I explore now it will probably be just to "rage gank" players at the sites. I know they'll be there too busy clicking those awful flashy icons to notice me. I play solo because I don't want to wear a headset.
Minister of Death Ministry of War Amarr Empire 51	Posted - 2013.06.20 21:42:00 - [149] - Quote agree with OP, it is really stupid. You have to wonder how a 'game designer' could come up with something that ridiculous.
Gealbhan Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 300	Posted - 2013.06.20 21:46:00 - [150] - Quote I agree with the OP, the "excitement" of exploration is gone.



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