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Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
1
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Common Problems with the Skill Queue
- - - - - - - - - -
- Top tier skills and level 5 skill roadblocks take too long to train. This is daunting and frustrating at all levels of play.
- Players at times may feel that they have 'no reason' to play until a new and exciting top tier skill is completed. This can often result in weeks of paid subscription time being solely devoted to skill queue maintenance and no meaningful gameplay/enjoyment of EVE.
- A consequence of scenario #2 would be a decreased interest in EVE over time, lack of immersion and incentive, and ultimately decrease in playtime / subscription revenue.
Solution: Daily Skill Queue Bonuses
- - - - - - - - - -
Implementation Option #1 - Immediate Rewards
Mix in a time limited, percentage based skill queue reward into some of the more moderately challenging aspects of EvE. Things like completing a mission in low or null sec space, Participation in a successful incursion Assault or Headquarters Fleet, or partaking in the destruction of a player ship or structure. Really it could be anything, but should support the less explored/more risky avenues of EvE life. These boosts should be one offs, should not stack, and if other bonuses apply the more powerful bonus would overwrite the existing bonus.
For example:
"For the completion of this mission you will receive:"
- 2 Million Isk
- 2,500 Loyalty Points
- 50% Skill Queue Boost for 12 Hours
"You have clear a class 2 sleeper site, you have received:"
- 25% Skill Queue Boost for 12 Hours
"You have completed this Sansha's Assault Site, you have received:"
- 19.5 Million Isk
- 13,000 Loyalty Points
- 25% Skill Queue Boost for 12 Hours
"Stupidguy's Ship begins to explode, you receive:"
- 10% Skill Queue Boost for 12 Hours
Implimentation Option #2 - Rewards as Quafe Consumables
This is basically the same as the first iteration, but instead of immediate rewards applied directly to the pilot he would be awarded a consumable item that can be traded on the market. These rewards would be far less powerful, and not directly support daily recurring play as well, but would still be of great value and be far more customizable. You can only be under the effect of one consumable at a time.
For Example:
"For the completion of this mission you will receive:"
- 2 Million Isk
- 2,500 Loyalty Points
- 1 Quafe "Brawndo" Cola (1 m3)
Variations:
- Quafe "I Can See Forever" Grape Soda (1 m3) - Temporary 5 Perception for 12 hours.
- Quafe "Honey Dos" Orange Soda (1 m3) - Temporary 5 Memory for 12 hours.
- Quafe "Don't Scratch That" Root Beer (1 m3) - Temporary 5 Willpower for 12 hours.
- Quafe "Doc Brown's" Ginger Ale (1 m3) - Temporary 5 Intelligence for 12 hours.
- Quafe "Smoothie" Strawberry Soda (1 m3) - Temporary 5 Charisma for 12 hours.
- Quafe "Brawndo" Cola (1 m3) - 25% Skill Queue Boost for 12 Hours
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
89
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
No no no no no.
eve is not a grind fest on skill points.
this can also result in buying sp with isk. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
293
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Three things.
1. No.
2. Hell no.
3. Not everyone runs missions. If you're even going to consider this as a valid idea, you have to allow implementation through many avenues, not just mission running. Missions have too many rewards now as it is. |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes |
XXSketchxx
Remote Soviet Industries
39
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hey!
No.
Get fuc*ked, biomass your character. |
Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
2
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:3. Not everyone runs missions. If you're even going to consider this as a valid idea, you have to allow implementation through many avenues, not just mission running. Missions have too many rewards now as it is.
I agree with this. I offered mission running, incursions, wormhole sites, and pvp as options. What else would be good? |
Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
2
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:Get fuc*ked, biomass your character.
This sounds angry, even when reading it in the overly cheerful voice that narrates everything in my head. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
65
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Did you decide to eat a big bowl of stupid after someone ****ed in your cereal this morning?
No, Hell no, **** no.
GTFO with stupid, unfair and unbalanced ideas.
And I agree with Sketch, biomass.
kthxbai.
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Darkdood
Estrale Frontiers
9
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
I wrote a big reply and realized on second thought this a really bad idea sorry. It pretty much breaks Eve as a game. My friend left WoW and started playing this specifically because he didn't have to grind exp. He pulled me into this I rather like that aspect of the game.
Items and Isk should be the incentive. |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
U mad bro?
Yes, +1
You don't have to get attribute implants either. Yet they affect training speed too. |
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Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
For the record, I do not like the item based implementation much either, just wanted to throw it out there. I think it's a bit too much and simply buying SP is not a good direction.
I fully support minor to moderate skill queue boosts being applied to meaningful and challenging content as a further reward for engaging in those all too underused outlets and in turn keeping pilots who would be otherwise content to just leave their pilot in a station for 25 days to rot a reason to login a play.
It's not game breaking, it's perpetuating. Every MMO relies on giving you multiple rabbits to chase that you can never catch. The skill queue is one of the least rewarding and most frustrating un-catchable rabbits ever. I am at least offering a way to selectively, deliberately intervene and fight the horrible skill queue monster and give pilots a maintainable way to stay involved in the only meaningful metric in this game, their SP.
Those who play through meaningful content often and daily getting a modest boost to training over the risk-free, effort-free training we currently enjoy is hardly a game breaker. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
16
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quaaid wrote:
Those who play through meaningful content often and daily getting a modest boost to training over the risk-free, effort-free training we currently enjoy is hardly a game breaker.
However it does open up some character farming issues via bots..now doesn't it.
|
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
76
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Quaaid wrote:
Those who play through meaningful content often and daily getting a modest boost to training over the risk-free, effort-free training we currently enjoy is hardly a game breaker.
However it does open up some character farming issues via bots..now doesn't it.
It doesn't. As illustrated by other games where daily quests have been implemented.
This, in fact, is the one and only activity other than epic arcs/cosmos that cannot be usefully botted, no matter the sophistication of bots, due to repeat limit.
Epic arcs/Cosmos have the same repeat limit, with different timespan. |
muhadin
The Inevitable Corp
Black Legion.
11
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
There are too many trolls floating around this section that can't read very well.
The 2nd part wouldn't be a good idea, they shouldn't be sellable.
The first part, they should be unsellable and untradeable, or maybe a new clickable item in the attributes section to activate. They should not stack, and you should only beable to active one 6-12hour one every 24-48 hours ish. So, if you were active the maximum sp a month you would get would be around 2.5mil, instead of 1.8mil at 2700sp/hour. It can't be THAT high or too many people would wine about it. But it does make sense, that if you play alot your skill training should go up slightly. I do not believe it would have a impact on character market at all. |
Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:However it does open up some character farming issues via bots..now doesn't it.
Bots exist to handle almost every aspect of every mmo, that is not a viable argument against an idea. Bots currently farm missions, mining, low level exploration and quite possibly other things I am unaware of.
Limitations based off of exploitations would be the death of new development if we linger on it. |
Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 20:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
muhadin wrote:There are too many trolls floating around this section that can't read very well.
The 2nd part wouldn't be a good idea, they shouldn't be sellable.
The first part, they should be unsellable and untradeable, or maybe a new clickable item in the attributes section to activate. They should not stack, and you should only beable to active one 6-12hour one every 24-48 hours ish. So, if you were active the maximum sp a month you would get would be around 2.5mil, instead of 1.8mil at 2700sp/hour. It can't be THAT high or too many people would wine about it. But it does make sense, that if you play alot your skill training should go up slightly. I do not believe it would have a impact on character market at all.
All good points and ideas. Baby steps is good for this I believe. |
Caldain Morrow
The Reavers
Externus Hostis
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 20:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why not replace the, currently, almost useless story line items that COSMOS agents give out with these Quafe boosters? *Or* A BPC for a "volatile Limited Ocular Filter" or the like. It plugs in like any other implant but after a set amount of time it degenerates and fails. Make it viable for them to be manufactured and sold for modest profit but still cheaper than regular implants. For those who do PVP they would be very popular and for people starting out they would be a viable option for getting over that hump. I'd put out there that making the volatile versions worth about 25-50% of the regular implants worth it. Personally I don't run implants because they are so bloody expensive and I'm a pretty casual player; I can afford t wait.
For the record, the skill queue was part of why I started playing and is one of the great selling points to my friends since we all have these irritating day jobs that take up most of our time add on a wife or girlfriend and a going out with friends (who don't play) plus a hobby and game time gets dropped ff to nothing. WoW and other grind based levelers have little to no interest for me since I would never get anywhere. I'll go monts without doing more than updating my skill queue thn I'll have some free time and an itch and I've got a new ship type I can fly or suddenly, t2 guns or something like that. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
16
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Posted - 2011.10.21 20:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why is it something that heavily rewards the jewcrew?
There are others in this game also that log in and take much higher risks in this game than some mission runner. |
Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 20:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Why is it something that heavily rewards the jewcrew?
There are others in this game also that log in and take much higher risks in this game than some mission runner.
I don't see why this cannot support pvp as well, I have clearly stated that I would like to see the more challenging side of EVE carry forward these great rewards. The only limitation is how do we implement it? I was thinking on killmail generation, but I would be glad to hear your ideas on it too. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
76
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Posted - 2011.10.22 09:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Off topic posts removed.
Please stay on topic, thank you!
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
804
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Posted - 2011.10.22 09:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quaaid wrote:Common Problems with the Skill Queue - - - - - - - - - -
- Top tier skills and level 5 skill roadblocks take too long to train. This is daunting and frustrating at all levels of play.
- Players at times may feel that they have 'no reason' to play until a new and exciting top tier skill is completed. This can often result in weeks of paid subscription time being solely devoted to skill queue maintenance and no meaningful gameplay/enjoyment of EVE.
- A consequence of scenario #2 would be a decreased interest in EVE over time, lack of immersion and incentive, and ultimately decrease in playtime / subscription revenue.
None of those are problems. The first point is entirely intentional: it is meant to be a chore to get lvl V because the whole game is built around diminishing returns, and deciding between more immediate (and often larger) returns or some kind of (much less rewarding) specialisation. If you feel they're GÇ£daunting and frustratingGÇ¥, then it means it works GÇö it's giving you a reason to not train those levels.
The second point has nothing to do with the skill system and everything to do with players not liking EVE. They have this idea that once they train X, everything will change and it will be fun fun fun! GǪonly, when they get there, they will realise that it's the exact same thing as before. If they can't enjoy the journey there, they won't enjoy the destination because it does not differ from the journey in the slightest. This is just them fooling themselves.
The third point is a rather hefty non-sequitur. No, it does not affect immersion, and the incentive is unaffected. The decreased interest in EVE is due to running out of things to train and new things to look forward to, not because things take time to train. Decreasing the training time to get new toys only means that the people who get bored with them now will get bored of them even sooner.
Quote:Solution: Daily Skill Queue Bonuses Horrible, horrible, bad, awful idea. This introduces a completely pointless grind to EVE that will bore people to tears far quicker than any amount of training time might. It also reinforces bad behaviour and tries to steer the gameplay in specific, pre-determined direction. These are very bad things to do in a sandbox.
Your supposed problem is entirely built out of misconceptions, and your solution directly contradicts the core design philosophy. End result: ugh!
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Laechyd Eldgorn
draketrain
12
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Posted - 2011.10.22 09:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
in case this isn't just another skill boost troll
i mostly have only level 5 skills left to train and i am happy with training time, no bonus or whatever needed
newbies should take their time and accept the fact they can't have everything level 5 in a month. they have been even given some easy top end ship skills to train in minimal time like tech 3 cruisers. time for training tech 3 is so ridiculously short that it makes the guy with hac 5/cov ops 5/recon 5 madface.
only thing i am missing is more "end game" skills to train i.e. more advanced ship and weapon skills which require like HAC 5 or command ships 5 et cetera. so it actually rewards for having been training skills for last 5++ years. now all you have left is like training for titan which you can never or have any real use.
skill training should never ever get any time bonuses, ever.
also long term in-game time investment based bonuses on gameplay in MMO are bad, not even depending on the game. majority of people should have equal chances to play not depending how much time they put in grinding daily. |
Cunane Jeran
14
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Posted - 2011.10.22 09:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just no. The current system works and is pretty varied and more importantly works. 4 is more than enough for most things and if you want to specialise the choice is there and it should take a long time to make it a active decision and not a constant no brainer. |
Tristan North
The Scope
20
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Posted - 2011.10.22 14:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Laechyd Eldgorn wrote:in case this isn't just another skill boost troll
i mostly have only level 5 skills left to train and i am happy with training time, no bonus or whatever needed
newbies should take their time and accept the fact they can't have everything level 5 in a month. they have been even given some easy top end ship skills to train in minimal time like tech 3 cruisers. time for training tech 3 is so ridiculously short that it makes the guy with hac 5/cov ops 5/recon 5 madface.
only thing i am missing is more "end game" skills to train i.e. more advanced ship and weapon skills which require like HAC 5 or command ships 5 et cetera. so it actually rewards for having been training skills for last 5++ years. now all you have left is like training for titan which you can never or have any real use.
skill training should never ever get any time bonuses, ever.
also long term in-game time investment based bonuses on gameplay in MMO are bad, not even depending on the game. majority of people should have equal chances to play not depending how much time they put in grinding daily.
Aka "I'm a veteran, so everyone have to train 5 years to be competitive!"
lol? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
807
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Posted - 2011.10.22 16:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tristan North wrote:Aka "I'm a veteran, so everyone have to train 5 years to be competitive!"
lol? No. GǣI'm a veteran, so I only have lvl V:s left to train, because I could be competitive without them and didn't have any need to train them until now (and even then, it's just to fill out time, not because they're needed)GǥGǪ
GǪwith a dash of Gǣit would be nice if these lvl V:s actually provide some kind of benefit, because at the moment, they don't.Gǥ
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Maxtuga
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 20:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
I wanna say something about it.
YES WE NEED THE SKILL CHANGES.
First:Since I start I stop playing few times,why
Plex price insane
Diferences btw euros and dollars
Skills take toooo loong,INSANE
Second:I saw so many new starts(friends)and gave up after they found out about skills
Third:Around 24 years for full research??
CCP,what you think you are,24 y to reach end of game?
You think the ppl will play for so long??
I write here so many things but I think you understand what I want to explain
Fourth:The game is to expensive tbh(I am talking about plex and the diferences about euros and dollar)
Fifth:Make the mining more fun,because I know CCP dont mind some ppl use BOTs,because the game would die from night to day.
And there is more but I dont want to type more gl
Waiting for more fun games
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XXSketchxx
Remote Soviet Industries
65
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Posted - 2011.10.27 20:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Biomass yourself. |
David Xavier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.27 20:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:No no no no no.
eve is not a grind fest on skill points.
this can also result in buying sp with isk.
Expensive +5 attribute boosting implants come to mind which can be obtained with grinding ISK and affect training time.
Although giving boosts just to force you to log on and do stuff is a big NO. You would take away the freedom EvE grants compared to other MMOs, that you advance even if your are offline. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
38
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Posted - 2011.10.27 20:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
The only way I could even remotely get on board with this is if the temporary boosters required a 6-slot set of injection implants to function. You could get boosters that would give you +1 to +5 to an attribute, but at a cost of HAVING to buy a supply of the injection for each attribute and needing all 6 implants for them to work.
The only advantage of this would be that the injection set may be cheaper than a standard set of +4s, but if you're not diligent in managing it, you would end up training slower than with the set implants.
Edit: I'm not suggesting to replace the existing implants, but a new set (or set of sets) that work with boosters.
Edit Edit: Also: this gives a potential opening to allow (and give a good reason for) high sec gas mining. |
tankus2
Endless Destruction
Imperial Ascension
9
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Posted - 2011.10.27 21:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
I do agree with the general consensus that any sort of SP boost should not be 25%, as that would be insane. Now, if it was where 2% was considered a HUGE boost, then I'd be OK with this. I do agree that this would be a good idea, but it needs to take baby steps in order to keep it from being overpowering. Perhaps limiting what people at certain SP amounts can get? hmm.
Another thing that came to mind was an SP booster (as in drug) that has a chance of slowing down one's lock times, locking range, and perhaps a few other things too.
Also, hats off to CCP Phantom for keeping things civil
Where the science gets done |
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