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Sc4venge
SC4VENGERS BROTHERHOOD OF NAM
1
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Posted - 2013.06.04 18:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
seriously wtf -- dock -- refit menu-- remove hacker & analyzer -- undock -- thanks ccp, there's another two useless modules i don't hav 2 worry 'bout, and just when i had lvl5 in both. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7859
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Posted - 2013.06.04 19:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree.
Already playing a game, don't need a mini game within this game.
If I wanted to play 'The Matrix Online' I'd be there already.
DMC |
RonPaul Rox
Serene Vendetta Li3 Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.06.04 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
actually the minigame isnt that bad, its the fact i get about 1/10 of whats in every can, anyone else have this problem? does a bigger (fatter) ship help? wtf this is lame |
Sc4venge
SC4VENGERS BROTHERHOOD OF NAM
2
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Posted - 2013.06.04 19:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:actually the minigame isnt that bad, its the fact i get about 1/10 of whats in every can, anyone else have this problem? does a bigger (fatter) ship help? wtf this is lame
Nope, you need another player/ship with you. When you succeed the two of you fly in different dirrections at the boxes and you should be able to grab them all.
Although this brings up another problem. Since two of you's need to be at the hackable box and only 1 can hack the box. The other player is left to do nothing but wait for the other player to finish his/her minigame. Lots of fun! Really thinking of the multiplayer in MMO CCP. |
Haulin Gneiss
sweet riders
97
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 20:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:actually the minigame isnt that bad, its the fact i get about 1/10 of whats in every can, anyone else have this problem? does a bigger (fatter) ship help? wtf this is lame
There's a cool video review of this on youtube by Johnny Pew, He hints at the cans you should avoid and the ones you can grab. |
Narwz
Zerglingz United
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 20:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hacking mini game isn't bad itself, it requires more attention than fly to can, press module and tab out while you wait. But for the love of God, do you expect me to play catch poke(can)mons online? It's just not fun, i get you want to try to make exploration availible for groups, but at same time you messed it for people doing it solo.
TLDR: Mini game is ok, catching cans in space concept is hillarious and not fun. |
Jonas Staal
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 20:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:actually the minigame isnt that bad, its the fact i get about 1/10 of whats in every can, anyone else have this problem? does a bigger (fatter) ship help? wtf this is lame
The mini game itself isn't too bad. Combine it with watching D-Scan, or burst-tanking in combat ladar / sleeper sites and it becomes a pain in the but. |
Nicola Arman
Saiph Industries Upholders
29
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Posted - 2013.06.04 21:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
I love it. Makes me ISK. It's not hard to check D-Scan and Local while hacking. It's not timed or anything. Don't be do scared of something new. Or bring a friend if you know how to make them. And invest in the skills. You won't do very well without good skills, which is kinda the point...
I do it solo btw. |
Sc4venge
SC4VENGERS BROTHERHOOD OF NAM
3
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Posted - 2013.06.04 21:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nicola Arman wrote:I love it. Makes me ISK. It's not hard to check D-Scan and Local while hacking. It's not timed or anything. Don't be do scared of something new. Or bring a friend if you know how to make them. And invest in the skills. You won't do very well without good skills, which is kinda the point...
I do it solo btw.
been exploring for 3 years now and have max skills. Unless you're ready for sum 10/10's in null, u better off doing lvl4's. What do I do with my EY-1005 implants? maybe sum incursion heads wanna buy. |
Staavross
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:actually the minigame isnt that bad, its the fact i get about 1/10 of whats in every can, anyone else have this problem? does a bigger (fatter) ship help? wtf this is lame
Same, that's with dualboxing too. |
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Alien Youth
Exiter Corp
15
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Posted - 2013.06.04 22:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
i found it to be kinda fun.... =p |
Staavross
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
9
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Posted - 2013.06.04 22:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alien Youth wrote:i found it to be kinda fun.... =p
~First 5 times maybe, once you realise it drops nothing and takes a bazillion clicks it loses its charm =/ |
Haulin Gneiss
sweet riders
101
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Staavross wrote:Alien Youth wrote:i found it to be kinda fun.... =p ~First 5 times maybe, once you realise it drops nothing and takes a bazillion clicks it loses its charm =/
Have you guys seen any thing in the minigame that is skill based? I mean it appears that my hacking 5 skill might improve the strength of my virus but other than that it seems to be just a bunch of random clicks until you find the core. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7866
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Basically it's something to slow you down, making it take much more time to complete the site.
It use to be sooo much fun, playing this game.
Now,,,,,,,,,,,it's turned into a major hassle, more stress than fun.
DMC |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1258
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Haulin Gneiss wrote:Staavross wrote:Alien Youth wrote:i found it to be kinda fun.... =p ~First 5 times maybe, once you realise it drops nothing and takes a bazillion clicks it loses its charm =/ Have you guys seen any thing in the minigame that is skill based? I mean it appears that my hacking 5 skill might improve the strength of my virus but other than that it seems to be just a bunch of random clicks until you find the core.
That's what it does: increases coherence(?). Along with a specialized ship and a T2 module it makes it hard to actually lose the damn minigame, though it still takes just as long.
Oh, and are we really supposed to have rats in sites? I knew that was still the plan in wormholes, but in k-space? |
Zircon Dasher
199
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Basically it's something to slow you down, making it take much more time to complete the site.
It use to be sooo much fun, playing this game.
Now,,,,,,,,,,,it's turned into a major hassle, more stress than fun.
DMC
Pushing one button and waiting for the can to unlock was fun? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Braldt Ironeye
Tri Dee Dana
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Basically it's something to slow you down, making it take much more time to complete the site.
It use to be sooo much fun, playing this game.
Now,,,,,,,,,,,it's turned into a major hassle, more stress than fun.
DMC Pushing one button and waiting for the can to unlock was fun?
Compared to what it is now, I'd stick with the old method overall. At least with regards to the result.
Sorry, but while the minigame is interesting, as it actually resembles what your doing what with hacking into data nodes or ancient databases and the like, and even having it explode on a critical failure, the giant mess of containers that fly all over the place is not really feasible.
Yes, you can bring a second person with you, but then that's defeating the purpose of the intended change, which was the 'click and wait' style of play. Instead of YOU waiting for it to finish, the friend is instead. Win one, loose the other.
Remove the kicking out of all the random containers all over, and it would be a reasonable, and approved change. At least in my opinion.
-Braldt |
Kijimea
Mulors
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 00:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
I love the mini game. It is quite stressfull to watch out for dscan etc since i have to stay longer in every site and looking to the mini game but however that is way more fun than just pressing one button in a can. Thanks CCP. |
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
189
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 01:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Can someone explain the rationale for the firework of spew cans? I like the minigame, but don't understand why it just doesn't open with a slightly better loot drop than before. Although I would be cool if I could add the spew containers to overview. Lighting a cyno to my ladyparts |
Tennoku
Mercury Nation House of Mercury
1
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Posted - 2013.06.05 02:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
I've looked at a video showing off the hacking middle game, and I'm not sure I get it. Is there any player skill involved? That is, are there any important decisions to make, that you have the information to make? Having to choose between 3 indistinguishable firewalls isn't a decision, it's just luck. Are there any elements that do require thinking, strategising, that sort of thing?
It's hard to tell from the video. |
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Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
234
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Posted - 2013.06.05 03:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
New system is awesome for everyone. play a minigame instead of afking to watch futurama while my analyzers cycle. Distacts bears for raoming gankers to potentially catch em with their pants down. And if you know what you're doing the isk/hour went up, not down. Anyone who is having issues with the new system either hasn't learned it yet, wants afk income, or is stupid. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 03:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Haulin Gneiss wrote:Staavross wrote:Alien Youth wrote:i found it to be kinda fun.... =p ~First 5 times maybe, once you realise it drops nothing and takes a bazillion clicks it loses its charm =/ Have you guys seen any thing in the minigame that is skill based? I mean it appears that my hacking 5 skill might improve the strength of my virus but other than that it seems to be just a bunch of random clicks until you find the core.
Yes. You're basically constantly assessing risk and trying not to get boxed in. It's somewhat luck based, but you can, by exploring in certain patterns, mitigate risk on the minigame. It's like a miniature roguelike game. A lot simpler, but there is some strategy to it. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Vega Umbranox
Eternal Darkness. Fatal Ascension
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
my god que bunch of whiney old farts stuck in their ways and hating all change get over yourselves seriously.
so far its done everything they said it was going to and successfully, tho i do agree its kinda lame 1 person has to sit there doing nothing while the other hacks, the game is fairly fun and its enjoyable trying to get all the cans that float away. havent read into it but im starting to notice certain can names yeild much better items ;) |
Soul-Crashing Lag
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 07:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ignore the haters, the minigame is fine. Certainly better than just waiting for the cycle to proc.
What disappoints me is the loot. Currently EVERY other form of isk-making is more profitable than relic/data sites. |
Hieren Andven
Liberated Planet Development
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 08:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
I am loving the hacking game and scattering mechanics. Both force me to be actually engaged in the game and I found myself pausing my TV so I could focus properly on EVE (I am in lowsec so I need to watch local/d-scan as well). At first I was thoroughly disappointed with the loot, but then I noticed the containers have different names...
No complaints here and I am looking forward to what they can do with the new hacking mechanic. |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet Cerberus Unleashed
60
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 08:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Can someone explain the rationale for the firework of spew cans? I like the minigame, but don't understand why it just doesn't open with a slightly better loot drop than before. Although I would be cool if I could add the spew containers to overview.
1. Bring a cargo scanner. Scan all hacking containers prior to doing the mini game. 2. when the cans are spewed out, try to find out how the can types correlate with the stuff inside the container. E.g. BPCs are always in Data cans, Decryptors in cans labelled "Parts" and so on. If you are lazy, wait a few days/weeks, it will certainly be somewhere on the net. 3. once you know what is in which cans, you'll go for the valuable stuff inside the container. There may be like 2-7 cans of the appropriate type comming out. Requires dexterity to catch them and if you are solo, the chance will not be 100% you get a certain item, but your chances are WAY better.
The only downside: you will KNOW when there WAS that shiny Faction BPC in the container - and you did not get it, because you flunked hacking or missed the can... Tough luck, man! *chr chr* (made the whole thing more exciting and meaningful for me though)
ah... and 4. don't tell ANYONE. They will try to steal my hacking sites!!!! |
RonPaul Rox
Serene Vendetta Li3 Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 16:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tennoku wrote:I've looked at a video showing off the hacking middle game, and I'm not sure I get it. Is there any player skill involved? That is, are there any important decisions to make, that you have the information to make? Having to choose between 3 indistinguishable firewalls isn't a decision, it's just luck. Are there any elements that do require thinking, strategising, that sort of thing?
It's hard to tell from the video.
the "skill" is picking up the bonuses before you click on the next node and reveal a virus. trying to rush through the tedious process is what screws you |
Pestilence Aligher'ri
V i L e
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 17:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
I had fun last night. I made a good amount of money if they sell. The question is, will what I got sell?
I did about 10 sites last night. I don't have elite skills for hacking, but getting there. I would say the real challenge is in the decision making of what path to make and what to attack. I've blown up a few based on fails already with real complicated 0.0 sites both data and ruins. |
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
191
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 18:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space? Lighting a cyno to my ladyparts |
Pestilence Aligher'ri
V i L e
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 19:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL
Pretty sure the cans decloak you when they spew. This is an unfortunate event that both happens in-game and in the bedroom. |
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CCP Prime
C C P C C P Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 19:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL
If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked. Programmer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
191
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 19:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Prime: Are these considered cans? They don't show up in the overview anywhere as far as I have been able to tell, so I wasn't sure. Lighting a cyno to my ladyparts |
Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
58
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 20:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree. Already playing a game, don't need a mini game within this game. If I wanted to play 'The Matrix Online' I'd be there already. DMC
The Matrix Online was shut down a few years ago. Couldn't play it anymore if you wanted to. :( |
Murlio
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 21:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
While i think the changes in hacking system are great step in the right direction, making the whole process interactive and interesting, the current implementation has some rather big flaws.
First of all the spewing of cans on successful hack. You are actually getting penalized for succeeding in activity if you try it alone (no matter that you invested considerable amount of SPs) .
I can't say i had much experience with the new system but i did few sites in 0.0 and i can safely say if you didn't do some research or haven't played much that type of games in order to know some tactics that will improve your chances, you have pretty good chances to fail at some hacking attempts.
I've managed to fail on 2 containers twice each, from around 12-13 total. Both containers exploded on the second fail. I have max skills and use t3 with the right subsystem, and i'm not a drooling idiot - meaning i won't attack an 60/40 antivirus node on 40 coherence. Still when i come upon a mini game that has almost all the possible nodes active, there is some chance you will get cornered at the beginning or mid game with no options to continue.
You start one route and come upon 60/40 antivirus, go another way to preserve coherence there you encounter another, go the third way just to come upon third. You open one data cashe hoping for utility and end up with suppressor. So i can say there is some chance (i can't say how big from my limited experience so far) that you will end up with the container blowing up in your face.
Sorry for the tirade but it was to illustrate the point that after you actually beat the skill based game (which takes in account your skills - via coherence and strength and your strategy at the game itself) instead of profiting for it, you get hit by the RNG bat and can actually lose the nice loot you have just won. Even with scanning the container and scooping only the right cans you still can miss the big prize. Which levees you wondering why do you even bother.
The second reason is the need for second person (lets not kid our self - in most cases second account). Encouraging team play is great but in the current implementation the second person does not contribute at all with the whole mini game . He only sits there and waits for the container to spew the goods. In the unlikely event that this second pilot is an actual player he will get bored to hell very fast and soon go for something more interesting like afk mining. And this defeats the whole purpose of encouraging team play.
And since i don't like just to drop critique without any constructive suggestions i'll share my ides for future improvement on the hacking game and mechanic as a whole.
To encourage team play you can actually implement some kind of remote module. It can have 1 per ship limit and can be activated on a ship or on container that is current being hacked. It can give some bonuses to the person who is actually doing the hacking. Or you can go even further and take into account the skills of the second player. Maybe giving him another instance of the minigame. If the person hacking the can fails his attempt his module will continue to cycle and the second pilot will have a chance of finishing the game. If he secedes the container will give the same loot as if the first have finished. But if both succeed the second pilot will receive some small amount of bonus loot. The spewing mechanic will become obsolete. If you like to do hacking alone you go do it and if you hack container you get the loot you deserve. If you bring someone else with you, and he actually contributes to the hacking, then you get bonus loot. You can have the container spew one can for each player that finishes the hack.
This way you increase the potential loot a container can give by team of players, making a site with lets say an average reward of 25 mil when done by a single player to have average value of 40mil when done by two, 50 by three players and so on. This makes for far better scallability and will actually encourage teamplay.
Not to mention that this can contribute for some great EVE moments.
As an up and coming hacker you have just found the next from a series of great data sites and start to hack the containers in your shiny new buzzard. You are half through the minigame, so concentrated in your effort, that you notice the loki that has decloaked next to you only after you hear the sound of targeting and it's too late. As the loki finishes targeting you think "Whell it was a good run". Then you notice that the loki has activated a module on you. but it's not the warp scramble you have expected but instead it is Remote Hacking Amplifier and he is actually helping you hack the container. Thinking "What a great guy, now we can both hack finish the hack and get bonus loot, we can share and become BFFs forever" you finish your hack wait for him to finish his instance so you can share the spoils. And since this is EVE as soon as he finishes his hack and the container ejects the bonus loot, you get pointed and destroyed promptly.
This is my view of how the system can be improved, and since there are a lot smarter ppl than me working for CCP i hope they will come up with even better system, which will promote actual teamplay, taking into account all the players participating and engaging them in the game, not one where one player is scaning and hacking and only actinge as a loot mu |
DotheBarrel Roll
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 22:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked. I agree with the not being able to loot while cloaked thing but it seems to me that even if you are not in fleet with another party and have safety set to green it is possible to get 1 or 2 containers right before the pinata contis expire. I had that happen with two other buzzards on grid and we even managed to somehow pull the same conti with at least two people at the same time(no idea who got the loot, btw is there a log?). Might even be that the tractor beam of pilot 1 (who hacked the conti, and was not in my fleet) made it possible for me to grab it at the same time.
Also: if you lock pinata contis while tractoring one, the one you tractor will haunt you and deny any other contis from being tractored.
You might want to check that again.
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LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
72
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 23:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Garresh wrote:New system is awesome for everyone. play a minigame instead of afking to watch futurama while my analyzers cycle. Distacts bears for raoming gankers to potentially catch em with their pants down. And if you know what you're doing the isk/hour went up, not down. Anyone who is having issues with the new system either hasn't learned it yet, wants afk income, or is stupid.
but its ******* shite...
the hacking game is ok, sort of but it does not require any sort of skill... The loot flying around in space is ****, ruins it for me because its annoying and stressful. |
DotheBarrel Roll
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 23:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
LittleTerror wrote:Garresh wrote:New system is awesome for everyone. play a minigame instead of afking to watch futurama while my analyzers cycle. Distacts bears for raoming gankers to potentially catch em with their pants down. And if you know what you're doing the isk/hour went up, not down. Anyone who is having issues with the new system either hasn't learned it yet, wants afk income, or is stupid. but its ******* shite... the hacking game is ok, sort of but it does not require any sort of skill... The loot flying around in space is ****, ruins it for me because its annoying and stressful. "What do we say to the loot fairy?" "Not today." |
Eloy Alduron
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 07:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sc4venge wrote:seriously wtf -- dock -- refit menu-- remove hacker & analyzer -- undock -- thanks ccp, there's another two useless modules i don't hav 2 worry 'bout, and just when i had lvl5 in both.
Couldn't agree with you more What this does is lower your isk per hour ratio.. CCP killing your income yet again so they can sell more plex's If you're in W-space ... you now have to kill sleepers salvage them stay alive fiddle with this damn mini game OH and look I'm getting jumped by a group of people b/c I dropped the ball on D-scanning thanks to this minigame taking up too much time and attention.
like seriously was in a C3 relic site tonight ... I deserved to get jumped soooo bad with all the time I was taking .. I just said screw it and left with nothing but the sleeper loot... not going to lose 3 tech 3 cruisers (multiboxin) b/c this minigame is taking up too much of my attention.
and you wonder why these guys get DDOS'd |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 07:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Eloy Alduron wrote: What this does is lower your isk per hour ratio.. CCP killing your income yet again so they can sell more plex's If you're in W-space ... you now have to kill sleepers salvage them stay alive fiddle with this damn mini game OH and look I'm getting jumped by a group of people b/c I dropped the ball on D-scanning thanks to this minigame taking up too much time and attention.
like seriously was in a C3 relic site tonight ... I deserved to get jumped soooo bad with all the time I was taking .. I just said screw it and left with nothing but the sleeper loot... not going to lose 3 tech 3 cruisers (multiboxin) b/c this minigame is taking up too much of my attention.
and you wonder why these guys get DDOS'd
The sites had sleepers before. In an early build on Sisi they removed the sleepers from the data and relic sites, but the community demanded them back, because the sleeper are the main income for a lot of wormhole-dwellers.
Also: You are multiboxing 3 t3s? Wormholes are dangerous, and you should get a group to farm them. Without scouts & playing three accounts at the same time is greedy. Yes, you deserve getting jumped on. Get some friends. So they can spam D-Scan while you hack.
If you can't handle multiboxing your expensive ships, don't do it. Or Bob will kill you. |
Eloy Alduron
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 12:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
"Wormholes are dangerous"
NAWW REALLY ? =) GÖÑ
Yet after almost a year in a C6 I maintain a kill efficiency in the upper 90's and am approaching 1000 kills on the corp KB cumulatively with all my toons. A handful of those killmails have all 3 of my chars on em ^^ so we won't count those twice/thrice
Most of the time I welcome getting jumped, but not when I don't have a web n scram fitted. Which won't be a problem anymore since I'm dropping the analyzer
P.S. according to CCP greed is good. |
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
184
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked.
Wait a minute, I guess I really didn't think about this one when it was on Sisi, but are you saying that the person I bring along to do this loot spew with me like it's designed to encourageGǪ is going to turn suspect to me (and everyone else for hat matter) as soon as he grabs stuff from the cans? |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
@Eloy Alduron
You Noho guys should be enough people in your holes ;) When we are flying the new sites in Anoikis, we hack the container after killing the sleepers with someones cov ops alt + hacking skills, and since some of us are staying in the site to guard our noctis they can also help catching all the scattering cans afterwards.
Can't see any problem there. Yes, if you do it alone, the new mechanic needs more of your attention then before. You can watch D-Scan while hack, because you don't have to hurry while hacking, the only time my attention drops during flying one of the new sites in lowsec is when i try to catch as many containers as possible.
And yes, greed is good. Get your t3's safe after killing the sleepers, all you can loose after that is your relatively cheap hacking ship. Nothing to complain about.
Praise Bob!
(Off topic: Good KB stats Eloy, last time we almost worked together was some days ago. Your Alliance tried to get Hole Control in a C5 which was under siege to get the reinforcements in, but arr... bloody russians. Next time! :-D)
Manssell wrote: Wait a minute, I guess I really didn't think about this one when it was on Sisi, but are you saying that the person I bring along to do this loot spew with me like it's designed to encourageGǪ is going to turn suspect to me (and everyone else for hat matter) as soon as he grabs stuff from the cans?
Shouldn't happen if you are in the same fleet, isn't it? |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
184
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote:Manssell wrote: Wait a minute, I guess I really didn't think about this one when it was on Sisi, but are you saying that the person I bring along to do this loot spew with me like it's designed to encourageGǪ is going to turn suspect to me (and everyone else for hat matter) as soon as he grabs stuff from the cans?
Shouldn't happen if you are in the same fleet, isn't it?
Yea, the fleet should be fine. I was thinking of just inviting someone via private convo and not fleeting them up |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Or even more evil: Flying into highsec, hack a container and wait til someone is coming to you. Then open it, let the stuff flow, maybe your opponent isn't aware of the suspect-thing and he clicks one of the cans... and you can shoot him.
What happens if you try to hack a container which is already being hacked by someone else at the same time(in fleet or not?)?
Is it just not working or am i becoming suspect too if I try to hack the container? |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
22
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 14:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
Alright 0.0 sites can kick ones rear quite hard!
I have a bonused ship and rigged and implanted it, but no T2 equipment. Still, some sites are too hard for me. Four restoration nodes and a suppressor after nine turns is a bit disheartening. Poof go capacitor consoles and I am sure I heard Soundwave's mad laughter in the system. I am also very scared of opening data caches now, after having found restore nodes in three out of four.
0.0 really is designed with those T2 analyzers in mind I guess.
Looking at the loot I am not exactly impressed, the mini game is quite a time sink and I surely would have made more running the combat plexes and anoms in system. It does give very new players respectable income for very few skill points invested, even if they lose a can every once in a while. So, success, if that was the plan.
In conclusion I don't see me doing these sites in the future, but my cargo hold is still half-empty. I'll give my final judgment once my cargo hold is full. |
Philalexandros
Eternal Darkness. Fatal Ascension
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 15:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
The mini-game I can live with...barely.
The scattering mechanic MUST GO. Immediately. This spew-job thing makes me seriously consider anomalies for the first time in a very long time.
What you've done is made exploration much more difficult and time consuming but have not increased the rewards at all.
Carbon? Hydrogen batteries? You're f---ing kidding me. |
Cypher Decypher
Caldari Deep Space Ventures Tribal Band
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
I can't see what the fuss is all about. The minigame takes 30-60 secs. Alright I have T2 kit, but only two crates have blown up on me.
I distinctly remember sometimes having to wait five fricking minutes for that oh-so-slow Data Analyzer to finally crack one of the old crates. And so many more of them were actually empty too.
I like the minigame, and I like the fact that it IS a minigame and therefore subject to some fairly easy tweaks in future patches should CCP want to balance it or add more features. |
WOlfaneA3
LightningStrikesTwice Elemental Tide
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Whenever I see someone raging it makes me happy. That person will likely quit exploration leaving more sites for us non-ragers.
I personally find null relic sites to be quite rewarding, even solo. With a bit of patience you can understand the tactics required to win the mini game, literally the only can I haven't been able to hack is the "ruins" can in relic sites. I use a covert ops with T1 modules. I have yet to get a cargo scanner and my hacking and archaeology skills are at 4.
Also, I understand that more explorers means more sites, but there is likely a minimum number of sites. |
Craig Bennett2th
Bennett Corp Epsilon Shimmy Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sc4venge wrote:seriously wtf -- dock -- refit menu-- remove hacker & analyzer -- undock -- thanks ccp, there's another two useless modules i don't hav 2 worry 'bout, and just when i had lvl5 in both.
The only thing I think they need to change is how the cans come out. I think if you screw up then the cans go out everywhere like they are. I think if you can get it right then you get everything in 1 wack. |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
240
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 22:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
^Not really a good idea
As is, if you use a cargo scanner, you get 100% of the loot of every can you successfully hack. Making it so failure does the spew means you still get 100%. I've only been at this for 2 days, and I've already reached the point where I can scan, hack, grab 4 cans, and then ignore the rest because I know I've already gotten everything, and there's no need to chase them.
Once you realize the pattern, it's actually a very relaxed activity, and the loot chasing really isn't that bad. It's only if you try to get all the cans, without prioritizing high value ones, that you get annoyed. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
|
Kijimea
Mulors
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 00:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Exactly - ppl crying about the cans are just too bad. I mean why should i get the scraps? If you know which items you find in the right cans and you use a cargo scanner it is super easy, no need for a friend or whatever. I myself always in 100 % of every successfull hacks get exactly what i want to. So the system working good and ppl who complain about cans and no loot and bla are either just lazy or odyssey shows that some uber explorer on here are pretty low. |
Garand Huren
Miskatonic Mercantile
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 01:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked.
I'm basically a no count on issues in this game, but, follow up question to this... are they supposed to not go suspect? |
BlakPhoenix
Veni Vidi Vici Reloaded Darkspawn.
31
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 09:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Double restoring nodes = death no matter what. Please don't let this happen CCP!!! |
Radgette
New Eden Renegades
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 10:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
ye i've had one with 3+ restoring nodes you may as well just close the window it's impossible to get further.
And don't tell me i can avoid those with "skill" it's pretty much pot luck when you click a node to see what it is.
Loads of Firewalls is no problem with t2 analyzer, rigs and cov ops but anymore than 2 resto and your done.
I will say yes once you use a cargo scanner the spew mechanic is really easy to get exactly what you want. |
Tsubutai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
209
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 10:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Restoration nodes by themselves are no problem as long as you have T2 analyzers and a bonused ship - even in the toughest sites, they only have 80 coherence/10 strength. If you just kill them as soon as you uncover them, you'll only take 10 points of damage and they'll add 20 to the coherence of some other random node. Not a big deal. They only cause problems if you encounter them while a virus suppressor node is active. |
Kallie Rae
NorCorp Security Here Be Dragons
34
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 10:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
Never touched hacking/exploration before, but i've been totally enjoying myself after these changes, trying it out for the first time. So thumbs up from me.
Edit: Could of course need a few tweaks, i hate those restoration nodes, at least when they start stacking up. |
DotheBarrel Roll
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 11:07:00 -
[57] - Quote
BlakPhoenix wrote:Double restoring nodes = death no matter what. Please don't let this happen CCP!!! not really true in all cases, i had grids that seemed impossible but i just kept exploring nodes eventually found the core and since it is not affected by restoration nodes its doable if there are no surpressors or enough utilities... but yeah sometimes there are no utilities, then its really bad
Quote:What happens if you try to hack a container which is already being hacked by someone else at the same time(in fleet or not?)? it's not possible to interact with the container once somebody activated a module on it.. if you want to forfeit your try and let another person do it you have to either cloak up or warp off grid.. not sure if failed attempts count for other players, so this might be a loophole... have two persons take turns and you might only explode the conti after three trys |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7972
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 20:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
OMGAWD, the amount of CCP brown nose happening in this thread is worse than my little dog Toto who constantly dry humps anything that's within reach.
The whole damn system sux and is a complete waste of time. I hope you all continue doing these hacking sites which will leave more DED / unrated combat sites for me to complete.
DMC |
Traska Gannel
ROC Academy The ROC
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 01:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
Haulin Gneiss wrote:Staavross wrote:Alien Youth wrote:i found it to be kinda fun.... =p ~First 5 times maybe, once you realise it drops nothing and takes a bazillion clicks it loses its charm =/ Have you guys seen any thing in the minigame that is skill based? I mean it appears that my hacking 5 skill might improve the strength of my virus but other than that it seems to be just a bunch of random clicks until you find the core.
I would guess that your hacking skill affects either your total attack strength at the start or the amount of drop you receive attacking a node ... but since I have only tried with one character I can't pinpoint what the actual differences are. |
Castor II
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 07:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:OMGAWD, the amount of CCP brown nose happening in this thread is worse than my little dog Toto who constantly dry humps anything that's within reach.
The whole damn system sux and is a complete waste of time. I hope you all continue doing these hacking sites which will leave more DED / unrated combat sites for me to complete.
DMC
So we can't like something you don't? |
|
Yang Baili
New Eden's Logistic Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mini game is a nice addition. It makes you feel like your skill investment actually means something. But containers floating around space is just annoying. What is the point of this? Other than force you to staring at monitor. |
Night Train Lane
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP nas designed the new exploration mechanic to make it:
1. not doable by bots
2. as engaging as possible for humans, consistent with 1. |
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:13:00 -
[63] - Quote
A suggestion I'll make after I said screw it, then went and killed 5 people while they ran these sites in lowsec instead...
At least allow people to cloak once they have activated the hacking game, its way too easy to get killed while doing these sites in lowsec, all one has to do is wait for the loot to start spewing and then uncloak, lock and pop, way to easy to kill someone who is furiously chasing those stupid cans... |
Tommallionus
EVIL ONES
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jizys ckin krist or whatever ;]
I just did my first WH c4 Magnetic site !!! ...well I acctually I did start... did 3 of 15 cans and gave up... even with 4 friends (as adviced) brought with me it was just one BIG WASTE OF TIME ;] We've spend around 15 minutes with my lvl 5 skills (20-40 days skilling lost for me now), and fully equiped and pimped magneto opener ship ;]
I lack words to expres my disaprovement for this "thing" You did ;]
...magnetometric sites in WH class 4 was worthy up dto 120 mlns... if YOu had good fited ship to this job + lvl 5 skills it was 3-5 minutes work.... was it to short for YOu ? You maybe forgot that our 10+ people gang spend 5-10 minutes to clear site before opening cans + 5 minutes for cans = 10-15 minutes to gain 120 mlns + 120 mln of salvage... eqal 24 mlns per person for 15 minutes work... IT WA BEFORE... now we can easily gave up that way of earning isk.
I can only imagin what people farming c5 magnetos think of this change...
As somebody before said - If I would like to play role-playing game I would open it fom any other source. I play this game for PVP and only earning isk for ships... basically You're makeing it more time consuming than I can handle.
I have job, family, kids, cat, duities... I dont have extra 15-30 minuets to waste for opening ******* cans ;]
Go and put them deep in a place You like... just not in Eve we all love so much ;]
Thank You Very much... gonna go now and bit my wife bloody cause of YOu!!!
jizys... I'm so pissed that I don't even know what I wrote at the begining of this Post ;]
GL!
BTW. Is Eve online only purpose to earn more money by making our gameplay less fun.
Basicaly We're to pay You for everything, it;''s not worthy to arn money in game... whatever nicewords You gonna use to cover YOur changes - good few of them suxxx hard.
Thank YOu very much!
Bye ;]
|
Tommallionus
EVIL ONES
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
aaaa
One more idea... Could You please consider mini-game for my 425mm autocanon... I'd have many friends to bring with me to play it :D 6 of us one for each AC.. plus seventh to direct ship... one more mini-game for each single active module on my ship...
damage controle would be my favorite one :D |
Hazzard
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Agree with the op 100%. Mini game is dumb. Spewing containers even worse. |
yucci
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 23:29:00 -
[67] - Quote
This new hacking mini games is just silly. Its a child's games based on random chance, and then to make sure its totally frustrating, you now need dexterity to collect your rewards.
A Very Poor effort CCP.
Trying to click the spewcans doesn't always register,. so you click again and then your ship moves, and it still doesn't always tractor the can. Arrrg. Stoopid mechanic.
The other issue is the really nice bpc's are in the loot pool for these sites, which now has the possibility of being lost which translate to Less bpc's in game for things like Faction towers. Great.
To me this new hacking game is a deliberate waste of my time to chew up plex. Eve is supposed to be the King of the Hill for MMO, and CCP introduces this ???? I was mistakenly expecting something intelligent, like using knowledge of the game to reward loyalty as a customer...
For those of you who think this is "cool" try splashing in a puddle, I think you'll find the random results more satisfying.
|
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 02:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
yucci wrote:This new hacking mini games is just silly. Its a child's games based on random chance, and then to make sure its totally frustrating, you now need dexterity to collect your rewards.
The harder cans I've run into actually require a decent amount of strategy. That being said, it would be nice if they were randomized more intelligently. Also, the hisec cans are braindead even without maxed skills.
The isk/hour is abysmal post market-crash. Maybe I'll take up manufactoring with all these new bpc's. |
Maximus Hashur
n.Die The Periphery
61
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 00:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tennoku wrote:I've looked at a video showing off the hacking middle game, and I'm not sure I get it. Is there any player skill involved? That is, are there any important decisions to make, that you have the information to make? Having to choose between 3 indistinguishable firewalls isn't a decision, it's just luck. Are there any elements that do require thinking, strategising, that sort of thing?
It's hard to tell from the video.
The devblog says there are different sounds made when you hover over the button before clicking it, say on a specific path. Not sure if I can figure out yet what sound pertains to a clear or positive path, and when goes to a firewall/virus/regen node. I have lately been just randomly clicking and have had decent success at random Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.-á Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!! |
gas guzzler
Exploring Blind TECH
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:58:00 -
[70] - Quote
Night Train Lane wrote:CCP nas designed the new exploration mechanic to make it:
(1) not doable by bots
(2) as engaging as possible for humans, consistent with (1).
lol so exploration botting is pretty big these days? |
|
barunja
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 11:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
The new system is extremely bad. I see what CCP was trying to go for with it, but the result is just awful. The minigame is kind of neat, and I don't really mind playing it, but the can spew specifically doesn't work for me. Just let us open the can again. Can spew is extremely arbitrary and no matter what you do it feels frustrating to accomplish.
The loot tables need to be modified, too - at this point in EVE does anyone, anywhere, actually still need any interface BPCs? And the BPCs for the ancillary mods would be awesome, except the ancillary mods themselves aren't very good and very few people use them, so the BPCs are also worthless. And skillbooks? I think at this point there's enough Caldari Encryption Methods skillbooks for everyone in eve to inject it. Worthless! Not to mention that the "you lose" items (carbon, data sheets, etc) are pretty insulting. Just don't give me anything. As it is I have to constantly jettison the useless gag gifts, which if that's what you were trying to make me do then congratulations, I guess?
I'm more than a little unimpressed to find out that after months of heavy reworking, all we managed to fix about hacking was the interface and not the underlying problems that prevent hacking from being worthwhile. |
Ylariana
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 13:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
In my opinion, the Hacking game is ok, not that fun, not that tedious, its better than sitting there waiting for the module to cycle (please do NOT put this in for Salvager modules or anything else....)
The Spew Can system on the other hand is pure, total and utter S***E ! The reasons are many and previously stated by myself and others. It DOES NOT achieve the stated aim of removing the "sit and wait for bacon" system that the old hack used to be, all it does is ask you to get someone else to do your waiting while you twiddle with the mini game so that you can both frantically try to grab little floating globes of questionable value.
Well done CCP, you have effectively and discretely managed to implement a game element that is both Vomit AND Excrement all in one !! |
Bael McVaeden
Thee Almitee Ones The Unforgiven Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 13:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
I don't mind it, I feel like it adds something new to the game. The way I look at it is that it is like golf, or gambling. It is that one time that you get something good that will make you want to do it over and over again hoping for something good to drop again. |
Lotus Sei'Taer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 14:14:00 -
[74] - Quote
Awesome job CCP! You made hacking even more useless. On top of not being able to open a single ******* can, I lost my ship paying attention to your stupid ******* mini-game instead of local. I guess that was a good thing though, at least I got an insurance payout for a ship I was never fly again anyway. |
Moth Eisig
The Trident Brotherhood
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 16:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
How do I think CCP did in accomplishing their goals?
1) Make exploration more viable for groups with loot spew: Complete fail. I tried inviting militia mates to loot pinatas for a while, but I quickly realized that with a cargo scanner I could almost always get all the non-junk items completely solo. Even inviting one other person drastically lowers my profit potential. Loot value needs to be spread out through more containers so I'm not actively hurting my ISK/hour by inviting buddies in.
2) Make exploration more interesting via minigame: Mostly a success. As others have said, I wish the minigame worked more like minesweeper instead of a mostly mindless click-fest, but it's faster to click through the minigame than chew through NPCs, so I don't mind trading clicks for time..
Sidenote: CovOps everywhere now that there are no NPCs in sites. I'm always paranoid now that someone is warping to the site I'm in and I won't have any idea they're there until they're uncloaking on top of me while I'm distracted chasing loot cans (happened to me twice Saturday). Especially since pre-scanning sites and using them as bait seems to be popular right now, so not even a chance to see probes on dscan.
Also, dat market crash . . . my loot is selling for just over half the estimated market value. |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 16:46:00 -
[76] - Quote
I'm gonna have to fit/skill up a bit to do the good low sec loot cans but after getting how to work it in general it's okay. I definitely don't mind the randomness too much when you get one strike. freelance space bum |
Ranged Enigma
Regime Of Shadow Marines Alpha Wolf Pack
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 17:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
Does anyone know IF the market will raise again? I have about "80" Million isk of items in my hangar in amarr, but the ones the system predicts to be 7 M, go for under 1 m... While this may not be a problem to some of you, it HURTS my wallet. |
Tommallionus
EVIL ONES
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
Moth Eisig wrote:How do I think CCP did in accomplishing their goals? 1) Make exploration more viable for groups with loot spew: Complete fail. I tried inviting militia mates to loot pinatas for a while, but I quickly realized that with a cargo scanner I could almost always get all the non-junk items completely solo. Even inviting one other person drastically lowers my profit potential. Loot value needs to be spread out through more containers so I'm not actively hurting my ISK/hour by inviting buddies in. 2) Make exploration more interesting via minigame: Mostly a success. As others have said, I wish the minigame worked more like minesweeper instead of a mostly mindless click-fest, but it's faster to click through the minigame than chew through NPCs, so I don't mind trading clicks for time.. Sidenote: CovOps everywhere now that there are no NPCs in sites. I'm always paranoid now that someone is warping to the site I'm in and I won't have any idea they're there until they're uncloaking on top of me while I'm distracted chasing loot cans (happened to me twice Saturday). Especially since pre-scanning sites and using them as bait seems to be popular right now, so not even a chance to see probes on dscan. Also, dat market crash . . . my loot is selling for just over half the estimated market value.
...good idea to trade NPCs on HS/LS/Null sec sites for Minigame... well it it not a worst one. But what about WH space ? There still are NPC's... and in good amount... did CCP boost can's drop in WH ??? If not it's a compleate waste of time.. expecialy in WH class 1-4. In c5where You can get 200-500 mlns on site You could possibly consider waste of 15-30 minutes to open cans... but still - it's not fair !!!!
I don't play eve for ...fking minigames! They are only good for CCP cause making my isk/time ratio lower and force me to spend real money on game.
Thank You for this anoying change CCP! |
Cthulhu Fthagn
Yaxchilan Nocturnal Legion
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:18:00 -
[79] - Quote
Lotus Sei'Taer wrote:Awesome job CCP! You made hacking even more useless. On top of not being able to open a single ******* can, I lost my ship paying attention to your stupid ******* mini-game instead of local. I guess that was a good thing though, at least I got an insurance payout for a ship I was never fly again anyway.
Hahahah... I always enjoy stories like this. You get what you deserve. |
KickAss Tivianne
Culdesac Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
I agree with the parts flying around and having to scramble to get some of them. I don't mind the hacking to them I guess, just the kajillion of them floating away from the station every which way. increase the disappear timer at least! Give somewhat a fighting chance to see what is flying out. Or, maybe have another way to distribute the loot... Maybe pick one of 3 canisters and there are a random amount of things in it!?!? |
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