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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Qinoly
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Posted - 2005.11.06 15:03:00 -
[1]
Macro lowlifes running multiple accounts in order to make money on real life auction sites, can do so cause they are invulnerable in NPC corporations.
So change that situation. What if a new player after an X amount of skillpoints is automatically moved into a NPC controlled corporation that CAN be declared war upon. The player base will solve the problem.
I see a problem arising for honest freelancers though. Put some thoughts here people.
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Qinoly
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Posted - 2005.11.06 15:06:00 -
[2]
Some idea popping up in my own corp about it is to have an option for freelancers to be without any corp at all, if the game would allow for personal war declarations.
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Toxic Four
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Posted - 2005.11.06 15:30:00 -
[3]
After 1-2 mil sp palyers are booted from npc corp...
If they join a player corp fine. Otherwise they can be freelancer.
Create a new type of war called a duel. Duel is personal war between two players (player can't declare war on corp/alliance and corp/alliance can't declare on player). Cost of duels would work like cost of wars (gets more expensive to be in multiple duels) but cheaper. Might also have faster clock, 2hrs to start hostilities, payment is for 24 hours...
Freelancers are not allowed to refuse duel, but players in corps, either npc or player can refuse duels.
Finally duels are not permitted in 1.0 - 0.9 space. If the macro miners are kept in a few systems ccp will be able to keep a close eye on them and maybe have time to intervene.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.06 16:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Toxic Four Create a new type of war called a duel. Duel is personal war between two players (player can't declare war on corp/alliance and corp/alliance can't declare on player). Cost of duels would work like cost of wars (gets more expensive to be in multiple duels) but cheaper. Might also have faster clock, 2hrs to start hostilities, payment is for 24 hours...
Freelancers are not allowed to refuse duel, but players in corps, either npc or player can refuse duels.
Finally duels are not permitted in 1.0 - 0.9 space. If the macro miners are kept in a few systems ccp will be able to keep a close eye on them and maybe have time to intervene.
wouldn't work for a coupla reasons:
first, macros are NOT solo, and duelling each member of a macro team would be very costly
secondly, 1.0-0.9 is where almost all the macros are now, simply because of the lack of rats
tbh, making kestrels able to fit 4 standard launchers again would be the easiest way of solving the problem
make me a sig! Now 75mil of prizes! ends at midnight on tuesday morning This Zig. For great justice! |
Qinoly
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Posted - 2005.11.06 18:17:00 -
[5]
Quote: secondly, 1.0-0.9 is where almost all the macros are now, simply because of the lack of rats
Not true, due to lack of roids in those systems, they have moved to at least Domain's 0.6 systems. 9 barges, 3 indy's, ferox and moa Stripping whole systems.
Some of you will have seen this guy around.
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Kai Duracknar
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Posted - 2005.11.07 02:49:00 -
[6]
what is macro mining?
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Phyo
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Posted - 2005.11.07 02:57:00 -
[7]
A macro is a program that records mousemoves and repeat them on interval, basically the player goes to sleep/work while the program mines for him. Don't think its advised to put the whole explanation here on this forum.. as we want them erased from the game, not increase the number.
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Futher Bezluden
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Posted - 2005.11.07 05:53:00 -
[8]
how about keeping the current system of petitioning CCP about a possible exploit. I saw 4 possible macro miners a couple of days ago, so I petitioned it as an exploit and included the names. CCP adds their names to their list and checks them out in whatever manner they do. CCP banned a lot of macro miners, so they know what they are doing.
I like the idea of freelancers, but 2 million skillpoints equals a new character who has done all the learning and adv learning skills or has their learning skills to 4 and is poorly skilled everywhere else. 5mil skillpoints might be a better limit. The duel idea will be exploited by griefers, otherwise it sounds like a good idea.
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Arx Nemesis
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Posted - 2005.11.07 06:47:00 -
[9]
how doy you determine its a macro miner? you think it's easy? if ccp with all theyr logs and tools barely can establish that player is using macros then how will you without those tools make a difference?
Short example: some from our corp went to small ice mining in jita and ppl on the belt started yelling in local "look - a macro miner", why? cause we work efficently as a team, got us laughing really, but shows you how easely players get into wrong conclusion.
So how you gonna see if player is macroing? chatting in local? private messages? eve mails? well tough luck, personally i dont chat in local, block all convos automatically and dont respond to unknown evemails, in short, if you arent wearing my corp colors you are nothing to me, will that mark me as macro miner on a belt if i choose to do some boring mining with my two accounts and do it effectivly?
Probably, so, the current system is fine enough, if you have your suspicions - petition it, ccp will take it's time cause they need to PROVE it, players cant do much except starting to harass those who really arent macroing. ----------------------------------------- The price of freedom is eternal vigilance |
Qinoly
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Posted - 2005.11.07 15:08:00 -
[10]
Arx: Its not even just about duelling on macro players. See it as a new form of warfare in the game. Many ppl have an alt character thats not affiliated to any of the player corporations and still in their starter corp. Those can get away with anything, griefing, ore thieving, namecalling, etc.. Sure you can petition those players, but is that how we want it in this game ? eg calling the GM's and complain ?
I rather take it in my own hands, you play foul on me... okay lets see what you got if concord doesn't protect you.
Its all in the ways of EVE.
I like the duel idea.
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Toqua
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Posted - 2005.11.07 15:19:00 -
[11]
Bouncing the Idiots is fun. If they scream, you apologize...
T. |
Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.11.07 15:54:00 -
[12]
How about instead of banning, they flag the account as a -10 sec status to all chars. Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Productioner
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Posted - 2005.11.07 17:04:00 -
[13]
Frist you cant look at a player and tell if there macing, unless you are willing to sit there and watch them for hours on hours, you can ram them to see what they do. but other then that, there is not much you can do to tell. but CCP will band you for 15 days if they think you running a mac..
and I did say (think),, Director of making things that go BOOM, Life is only one step away from death
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Phyo
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Posted - 2005.11.07 17:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Boonaki How about instead of banning, they flag the account as a -10 sec status to all chars.
For that there's still a need for a GM to get this player flagged. The idea is to totally put it in the hands of the community.
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.11.07 21:56:00 -
[15]
RMR with can flagging should deal with the macro problem.
It should become hazardous to become a macro miner after implimentation.
Of course being an ore thief will likewise become hazardous.
What I think could make more sense would be Karma Points applied to the NPC corp character (-) or (+). Everytime the GMs get a macro alert they flag the potential macroer. Once a set amount of (-) karma has been voted by DIFFERENT characters (one vote per character) the GM sets the macroer to -10.0 sec.
I suggest this because if your... 1) in an npc corp 2) flagged by many players 3) petitioned repeatedly by many players 4) showing the signs of being a macroer (i wont say all the tells i have seen to keep them stupid)
you should be set up for getting nuked as your (as a macroer) ripping off all the legitimate EVE players on every level.
I realize this can be potentially abused but the simple remody for ppl who are being ganked is to simply join a corp for a while to "prove" they arnt macros.
Another recourse is to do the above... Once you exceed a set period of time in the NPC (read here NEW PLAYER CORP) you are booted to a semi live NPC corp that can be war dec'd. I realize this will set off ppl who want to live in NPC corps due to war dec'd but at some point you should join a player corp. IMHO there are only 2 reasons to stay infinitum in a NPC corp 1) avoiding war dec'd and 2) helping new players to EVE. 1) is IMHO tough luck get out there and fraternize more 2) is fixable by making the interm semi corp share the same channel as the NOOB corp channel TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes Not much. |
Transom
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Posted - 2005.11.08 03:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Transom on 08/11/2005 03:53:25 Frankly I'm not much of a miner myself and havent seen people I know are macroing. However I don't like ore thieves or loot thieves either.
Most non-pirate player corps will not tolerate this behavior from their own members, why do the NPC corps?
As for the cost of waging war on the entire group in the macro I am confident I can alter their profit motive by splashing just a few of the barges and maybe the indy. Also I am thinking duel fee is MUCH lower than corp war cost.
NPC corps are an exploit!
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Toxic Four
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Posted - 2005.11.08 03:57:00 -
[17]
Frankly I'm not much of a miner myself and am not sure I would spot a macro user myself. Partly because right now there is no good reason to look... That said, I don't like ore thieves or loot can thieves either.
Most non-pirate player corps will not tolerate this behavior from their own members, why do the NPC corps?
As for the cost of waging war on the entire group in the macro I am confident I can alter their profit motive by splashing just a few of the barges and maybe the indy. Also I am thinking duel fee is MUCH lower than corp war cost.
NPC corps are an exploit!
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2005.11.08 07:45:00 -
[18]
Heres What I say.
After 3 months of playing, You must leave the NPC corp, to join a Player corp. Should you be kicked or leave that player corp You go into NO CORP AT ALL !
There is no benefit of being in no corp at all, being in no corp means that you are not subject to CCP/CONCORD/SENTY Protection ANY WHERE !
This way , No one can stay in an NPC corp at all, And it encourages people to join player corps if they want police protction in High sec areas. It also stops Dreadnought/ Freighter Pilots Hiding behind NPC corps. This idea Sorts SO MANY EvE Issues in one fell swoop
nOOb Corps are nOOb Corps , its an exploit for someone to stay in them for their safety. We should make them what they really are , A TRAINING CAMP FOR NEW PLAYERS. Not a Means for harrassment and exploit. ------------------------------------------------ "Its not Feasible to Dismiss an Idea because of lag" |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.11.08 09:56:00 -
[19]
Lets not go overboard and do something that potentially hurts or annoys thousands of people which it's not supposed to affect. Forcing players out of an NPC corp would do exactly that.
Rethink this so the action would only affect people that macro-mine, that's the real difficult part.
Senior Producer EVE Online |
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ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2005.11.08 10:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Arx Nemesis how doy you determine its a macro miner? you think it's easy? if ccp with all theyr logs and tools barely can establish that player is using macros then how will you without those tools make a difference?
Short example: some from our corp went to small ice mining in jita and ppl on the belt started yelling in local "look - a macro miner", why? cause we work efficently as a team, got us laughing really, but shows you how easely players get into wrong conclusion.
So how you gonna see if player is macroing? chatting in local? private messages? eve mails? well tough luck, personally i dont chat in local, block all convos automatically and dont respond to unknown evemails, in short, if you arent wearing my corp colors you are nothing to me, will that mark me as macro miner on a belt if i choose to do some boring mining with my two accounts and do it effectivly?
Probably, so, the current system is fine enough, if you have your suspicions - petition it, ccp will take it's time cause they need to PROVE it, players cant do much except starting to harass those who really arent macroing.
Do not move to Tamo to mine. You will loose your ship. If you are not responding to direct questions while mining with few ships ignoring everything you are as close to macro miner as possible. Because we can't see the difference you are loosing ship.
We had 3 destroyers and Caracal mining there lately. We asked them, we bumped them, we shoot them to structure - no reaction. They got reported and killed.
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Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2005.11.08 15:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Oveur Lets not go overboard and do something that potentially hurts or annoys thousands of people which it's not supposed to affect. Forcing players out of an NPC corp would do exactly that.
Rethink this so the action would only affect people that macro-mine, that's the real difficult part.
NPC Corps are probably one of the most annoying problems in the game. They are the haven of the griefers, macro miners and scammers, where they hide out behind the barrier of CONCORD's protection, immune from legal recourse of war...and you are left with illegal action as your only recourse. Until we can declare war on individual players, you're going to continue to hear repeated calls for players to automatically get kicked out of the NPC corps. Give us the tools we need to deal with the problems ourselves. ---------- |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2005.11.08 15:32:00 -
[22]
Dont forget about ore thiefs who hide in npc corps with just enuth skills to fly an indy. they would never leave.
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ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2005.11.08 15:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Oveur Lets not go overboard and do something that potentially hurts or annoys thousands of people which it's not supposed to affect. Forcing players out of an NPC corp would do exactly that.
Rethink this so the action would only affect people that macro-mine, that's the real difficult part.
Did you consider using tools such as PunkBuster?
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ecam's Hunter
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Posted - 2005.11.08 15:50:00 -
[24]
I aint read all the threads, but macro miners only mine where there aint rats, correct?? well stop barges been able to mine in 1.0 barges or throw in some rats into the safer systems that only attack if you aint moved in 2 hrs or so.
but realy stop any thing over frig size been able to mine in 1.0 and crusers in 0.9. make it a law and they get concord a caned. Little harch but effective.
you could have a sumit like a pop up screen that says "you have been inactive for 1 hr, would you like me to save you band with" if no answer in 2 mins they get booted.... however moving systems/docking in that 2 hrs re-sets the clock. I mean do you ever really sit in space for 2 hrs or more and not dock or jump, well 1.0 any way???? I bet not as you can't belt rat and gate campers won't sit for that long b4 a fleet battle starts!
----> Insert something funny here <----
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.08 17:10:00 -
[25]
i have to say, my favourite idea so far is to continue the current system of detection, but rather than banning, make the macroer flagged to all players all the time. prevent him from placing escrows or player trading. do NOT have concord shoot him unless he agresses someone who hasn't attacked him.
we can all go macro hunting without losing kessies
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.11.08 18:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ecam's Hunter I aint read all the threads, but macro miners only mine where there aint rats, correct??
no i have seen macroers as low as 0.5 before. TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes Not much. |
Lygos
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Posted - 2005.11.08 19:39:00 -
[27]
I can only make the suggestions that I've always made:
1)Nerf empire roid respawn.
2)Reverse time and never implement ice slavery. Make ways of earning money that don't involve time-intensive manual labor, but instead planning, management, deal brokering and protecting the fragile means of production from raiders.
Realistic suggestion:
Ok, how about we make mining a skill and cooperation intensive process that ends relatively quickly. The more people you have combining specialist module effects on a roid, the more ore it dumps per 30 second round. Give us special ore hold or ore containers and make them entirely non-useful by industrials. Better yet, make it a process where we tell the system the exact quantity of ore we want, and it tells the players the combination of effects needed to acquire that number in the next 30 seconds.
I personally would rather see a mining squad fit more roid stabilization and anti-npc gear to enhance yeild rather than more mining lasers. The more environmental responsese the better.
This effect can also be combined with the ideas on special random field effects for asteroid belts. Then you have crossover effects from interactions of general fields and specific roid types as well as specialist miner gear.
The catch to accelerating ore withdrawal is that we have either have to accelerate ore consumption or insert a time sink in the form of refining. CCP succeeded with this by giving POS a refining time period, which I personally applauded. This needs to be extended to the refineries in normal stations.
For some reason a little voice in the back of my head tells me that CCP was reevaluating the some aspects of rental features in stations. Since I am a chronic fabricator and BS specialist, I no longer possess the faculty to distinguish what I want people to believe from what I might have known to be true. So I take this with a grain of salt.
"Everything I love is combustible." |
Fooball
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Posted - 2005.11.08 22:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden how about keeping the current system of petitioning CCP about a possible exploit. I saw 4 possible macro miners a couple of days ago, so I petitioned it as an exploit and included the names. CCP adds their names to their list and checks them out in whatever manner they do. CCP banned a lot of macro miners, so they know what they are doing.
As a side note. Some of the macro miners are substantially better at their stuff than the others. It takes a bit work but you can get practically invulnerable to the GMs' tools. Noticed a few that has been going on for weeks though they have been petitioned by most likely several people
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Partisan Ograe
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Posted - 2005.11.08 22:50:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Partisan Ograe on 08/11/2005 22:53:53 well ive seen several macros that have been around for a while but i get the feeling that CCP is doing the same thing as before letting a whole bunch of macros get overconfident and out in the open then ban them all in one fowl swoop
Oh but also a vast majority of the macros appear to be Chinesse which means, if CCP isolates China in its own universe like its been purposed a lot of everyones problems would be solved.
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Qinoly
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Posted - 2005.11.08 22:55:00 -
[30]
Guess those have names like gldkajdkf and fufulkjk.. and when you try to convo them their only reply is 'I don't speak english' on whatever question you ask.
Even though Oveur doesn't like the idea of forcing players out of the starter corporations, just that is a good solution to this. At this moment those macro users are harrassing everyone else by emptying whole constellations in a week, and there is nothing I can do to stop them. Ye ye bump them.. well that can be fun for an hour, but not 24/7. Petions get answered with 'Were doing all we can but it takes time to adress all complaints'. So the GM's have their hands more then full.
Oveur, think it over once more. Your players can get rid of this problem.
I like the duel idea and apparently I'm not the only one as this thread is growing.
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